I can only say this about this HCR...

[Waiting For Everyman]

...just as soon as even so much as one innocent citizen gets jailed for this, this old boomer widow is going to be 1) in the streets, demonstrating, for the first time since the '60s; and 2) trying to get arrested in support of whoever it is, every single day. It better not come to jailing people who can't pay. Whatever's done, or not done to this bill, that's the bottom line of it. It better not happen.

And I don't give a damn, I'm done with watching corporatists kill people because they can't afford to keep paying what they never owed in the first place, once everything they have is gone after being extorted from them under our perverted laws. It's bad enough that people are already jailed today for a multitude of trivial offenses, while the mega-criminals not only walk free but are treated (and paid) like kings. Jail for this? Hell, no! Setting up debtors' prisons is the last straw.

The talking heads can go on and on about the nuances of this subject, and the technical legalese of it all they want, that's where I'm at.


And btw, this is OUR song, not Pres. Obama's. We did it once for him, and we can do it again for us if needbe...

The Rising - Bruce Springsteen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA_woFNg5a0

Can't see nothin' in front of me
Can't see nothin' comin' up behind.
I make my way through this darkness
I can't feel nothin' but this chain that binds me.
Lost track of how far I've gone
How far I've gone, how high I've climbed.
On my back's a sixty-pound stone,
On my shoulder a half mile of line.

Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight

Left the house this morning,
Bells ringin' filled the air.
I was wearin' the cross of my calling,
On wheels of fire I come rollin' down here.

Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight

There's spirits above and behind me,
Faces gone black, eyes burnin' bright.
May their precious blood bind me
Lord, as I stand before your fiery light.

I see you Mary in the garden,
In the garden of a thousand sighs.
There's holy pictures of our children,
Dancin' in a sky filled with light.
May I feel your arms around me,
May I feel your blood mix with mine.
A dream of life comes to me
Like a catfish dancin' on the end of my line.

Sky of blackness and sorrow (a dream of life)
Sky of love, sky of tears (a dream of life)
Sky of glory and sadness (a dream of life)
Sky of mercy, sky of fear (a dream of life)
Sky of memory and shadow (a dream of life)
Your burnin' wind fills my arms tonight
Sky of longing and emptiness (a dream of life)
Sky of fullness, sky of blessed life

Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight


Oh and this is for us boomers who never forgot how it really is, from the Brave New World album (aptly named)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5lRXB39Zd8

Once more into the breach... I won't be shy about it, and I'm sure lots of us won't too. I hope it doesn't come to that, but from what I see, it will.

Carry on, as they say.

[BzaDem]

1. This is so laughable. It would be illegal for anyone who doesn't pay the mandate fine to be jailed

under the Senate bill.

"(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—
In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not— (i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or (ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure."

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

[Waiting For Everyman]

2. Well good. Let's hope not.

I'm glad you're so sure of that.

[BzaDem]

5. Here is the bill's text relating to waiver of criminal penalties and property liens.

"(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—
In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not— (i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or (ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure."

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

[timeforpeace]

12. No penalties for not complying? So this whole thing is a wink-wink, nudge-nudge thingie?

[Fumesucker]

3. I'm sure that having all you assets seized by the IRS..

And being thrown out on the street homeless will be so much better..

When it gets cold you can commit a crime in order to be jailed and get some food and shelter.

[BzaDem]

4. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself. The IRS cannot do any of that under this bill.

"(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—
In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not— (i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or (ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure."

http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf

[Fumesucker]

7. So basically this isn't really a mandate then?

Gee, I thought we had to have a mandate to bring everyone into the system and bring costs down..

Edited to add: Is money fungible?

In other words if paying this fine makes it impossible for you to pay some other portion of your tax burden can your property be seized for that portion of your taxes?

[BzaDem]

8. It is a very weak mandate.

You still owe money to the IRS. But they can't use egregious steps to collect. It is meant to incentivize those who can afford health insurance to get health insurance. But if someone really can't afford it, not much harm would come to them by not paying that part of the tax bill.

[Fumesucker]

9. So their bank accounts will not be locked, their wages garnished, etc?

[BzaDem]

10. They will owe money to the IRS (and it will appear on their credit report most likely).

I'm not an expert on IRS collections law and how it relates to this bill. But I know that property can't be taken and no criminal penalties can be imposed. I've heard somewhere that the most they could do was put the debt on one's credit report (though I can't verify that right now).

[Fumesucker]

13. Gee, that's mighty nice of them..

Good thing employers never check credit reports when hiring, that might cause you to have a problem getting a job..

[laughingliberal]

11. heh! the jokes on them. my house is worth $30,000 less than is owed on it

As Janis told us (paraphrasing) there is a certain amount of freedom in having nothing left to lose.

[Odin2005]

6. I love that Bruce song!

[lib_wit_it]

14. One of many great ones from him, but his one is so powerful. And, as the OP said, perfect for what

we need to do--rise the fuck up against the growing fascism.