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Let's do a new head count: Do you support this bill or do you want to kill it

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:31 PM
Original message
Poll question: Let's do a new head count: Do you support this bill or do you want to kill it
Edited on Sun Dec-20-09 06:32 PM by bluestateguy
I have sensed more support at DU for this bill in the last few days, but I think there are still more opponents here.

A vote for passing it does not foreclose trying to fix as much as possible in the conference committee, but if you vote for the pass it option you are suggesting that you are likely to favor passage regardless* of the intricacies of the conference committee. A vote to kill it means, you favor starting all over again.


*I actually prefer to use the word irregardless, but that is just me, and the way I do things.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. remove all the behind our backs deals cut by the adminstration & other negatives nt
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kill it
just cause when anyone says that on here, it causes some DUers to go get a little loopy. I like watching the train wreck it causes.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Can I check how Insurance stocks are doing and get back to you?
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Start over
Kill this one ASAP.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm going with "pass it" for one reason
If we kill it, it will have two effects--neither good.

Effect 1: If we, the Democrats, kill this thing the Republicans will simply use the bill to say the Democrats are the gang that can't shoot straight. We'd be looking at a Republican majority in 2010 and President Jindal in 2012. (Not even the Republicans are suicidal enough to want President Palin. Teabaggers aren't the majority of anything.)

Effect 2: This bill is the last shot in a generation to get healthcare reform. If this bill dies they will not start over. The Republicans will stonewall any chance they have to come up with something better. Instead, the Democratic congress immediately becomes a lame duck,

Like it or not, we're going to have to take this bill, FIX the sumbitch in conference committee as best we can, then use subsequent legislation to get it to where it needs to be.

I'll give you an example: the abortion issue. Like most of us--hell, like ANYONE here should be--I dislike the notion that Bart Stupak's constituents and Ben Nelson's constituents can dictate healthcare for 52 percent of the American population. But you know what? The bill is missing a few things I want to see in there--the abolition of abstinence-only sex education, working around the Pharmacists for Life, requiring that Plan B be included in rape kits...if the fuckers want to cut down on the number of abortions, cutting down on the number of pregnancies has got to be in there somewhere. It's not either. Where the hell is NOW on that?

A bigger sticking point is the mandate. That's got to go. And I would really like to see a government-run health program. Say what you will, we know the government can run a healthcare plan--it's called the Army Medical Department. If the government can run a medical program that does what AMEDD does, it should be able to handle one that takes care of the needs of the greater population.

Your choices aren't pass this bill or start over, it's pass this bill or forget any kind of reform whatsoever.
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lib_wit_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. I just can't decide. I'm tending toward support because the Rs want so badly to kill it, and I'm
hoping it can be fixed up some and built upon in the future. But, the folks who are saying to kill it because it won't be fixed or be the basis for expansion of the good stuff in the future seem to be far more educated on how these things work.

They should've said Medicare for All from the beginning. But most folks fell for the socialist granny-killing propaganda and Dems did little to refute it. We need better marketers, dammit. This article just reinforced what I've been thinking and saying for years now:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7247980
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. there should be an option for "I don't know"
Myself, I could go either way, although I lean towards support. For one thing because I do not see how "starting over" would lead to a better result.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. The GOP doesn't want to kill the Senate version, they only want you to think they do
GOP wanted single payer dead, which Obama killed for them. GOP wanted robust public option dead, which Obama killed for them.

This whole thing is a charade. The political elites of this country only care about profits and bleeding the workers right. They use the corrupt 2-party system to give us the illusion that we are a democracy. We are not!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. A lot of pass it people are not hanging around here much any more.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. I say kill it
But I bet even with Olympia Snow fillabustering it passes, because it's exactly what's needed to create the next big bubble.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. Kill it ~~ it's a POS, IMO. n/t
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. I was strongly agaisnt it, now I don't know what to think.
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Any other people in most other countries would flush this monstrosity...
...right down the Toilet....and I agree with them.

Women are not 2nd class Citizens.
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fl_dem Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kill it one word at a time
a long slow death by beating, using Liebermans nose.
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kill it...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kill Obamacare!
Understanding Obamacare

By Luke Mitchell


No one today is more moderate than the Democrats. Indeed, the triangulating work that began two decades ago under Bill Clinton is reaching its apogee under the politically astute guidance of Barack Obama. “There are those on the left who believe that the only way to fix the system is through a single-payer system like Canada’s,” Obama noted (correctly) last September. “On the right, there are those who argue that we should end employer-based systems and leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own.” The president, as is his habit, proposed that the appropriate solution lay somewhere in between. “There are arguments to be made for both these approaches. But either one would represent a radical shift that would disrupt the health care most people currently have. Since health care represents one-sixth of our economy, I believe it makes more sense to build on what works and fix what doesn’t, rather than try to build an entirely new system from scratch.”

With such soothing words, the Democrats have easily surpassed the Republicans in fund-raising from the health-care industry and are even pulling ahead in the overall insurance sector, where Republicans once had a two-to-one fund-raising advantage. The deal Obama presented last year, the deal he was elected on, and the deal that likely will pass in the end is a deal the insurance companies like, because it will save their industry from the scrap heap even as it satisfies the “popular clamor for a government supervision.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The private insurance industry, as currently constituted, would collapse if the government allowed real competition. The companies offer no real value and so instead must create a regulatory system that virtually mandates their existence and will soon actually do so.

A study by the McKinsey Global Institute found that health insurance cost the United States $145 billion in 2006, which was $91 billion more than what would be expected in a comparably wealthy country. This very large disparity may be explained by another study, by the American Medical Association, which shows that the vast majority of U.S. health-insurance markets are dominated by one or two health insurers. In California, the most competitive state, the top two insurance companies shared 58 percent of the market. In Hawaii, the top two companies shared the entire market. In some individual towns there was even less competition—Wellmark, for instance, owns 96 percent of the market in Decatur, Alabama. “Meanwhile, there has been year-to-year growth in the largest health insurers’ profitability,” the AMA reports, even as “consumers have been facing higher premiums, deductibles, copayments and coinsurance, effectively reducing the scope of their coverage.” And yet no innovating entrepreneurs have emerged to compete with these profitable enterprises. The AMA suggests this is because various “regulatory requirements” provide “significant barriers to entry.” Chief among those barriers, it should be noted, is an actual congressional exemption from antitrust laws, in the form of the McCarran–Ferguson Act of 1945.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/12/0082740
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