One thing I am certain about the final bill and a Public Option

[ThomWV]

If the final bill does not have something, no matter how watered down a sliver it might end up being, of a public option in it then there will never be a public health insurance program in this country in the lifetime of anyone who is reading this today. Something from the house version Must be preserved. Without at least the barest minimum Public Option all the suggestions that this is the start we need, the foothold by which a good national system will be built upon, are just farts in the wind.

[HuckleB]

1. I think you're very wrong on that.

[ixion]

2. without a strong public option that can actually provide competition to insurance companies

it is nothing more than the Insurance Industry Profit Protection Act.

[Cleita]

3. We can start going in the back door if we have the right politicians to do it

before this bill goes into effect in 2014. First we need to do some major overhauling of Medicare along the lines of Bernie Sanders amendment that he wasn't allowed to get in. We need to get the funding for it. I'm in favor of rolling back the tax cuts for the rich from former Republican administrations. Then we need to start lowering the ages incrementally until Medicare takes over and the insurance industry and this bill becomes irrelevant. If we lose seats to Republicans, however, in 2010, it can't be done then.

[Ken Burch]

4. Did you just post that so you could use the phrase "going in the back door"?

Oh, Behave!

[Cant trust em]

6. That's funny, because what's left of this bill has come out the back door.

Badoom-ching!

[Cleita]

8. Oh dear!

I didn't even think of it that way. :blush:

[Ken Burch]

9. No worries. The real question is

Who ARE the right politicians to do it?

[Cleita]

10. More progressive ones than the moderates we have now.

Then we would have a real majority, not one on paper.

[Ken Burch]

11. The ones we have now are not "moderates". They're cowards.

And the worst thing is, they accept the right-wing meme that non-conservatives have no right to win an election and no right to stay true to their principles if they do.

[Cleita]

15. That too. n/t

[Ozymanithrax]

5. In 1789, no slave could imagine that the Constitution would ever help them...

Sometimes it takes generations to get something right.

This bill is a start. We continue adding things, one incremental change at a time. The life of this nation did not begin with us and doesn't end with us. We need to be prepared to do what good we can in our time and pass the torch to our children in theirs.

[bvar22]

16. It is NOT a "start".

It is a huge step in the WRONG direction.

*It legitimizes the For Profit Health Insurance Cartel.

*It enshrines them as the permanent Gatekeepers of Health Care.

*It codifies their RIGHT to make a profit for a Corporation that manufactures NOTHING and produces NO wealth.

*It legitimizes using the IRS to ENFORCE Corporate Profits.

*It strengthens the Health Insurance Cartel's stranglehold over our political system by MANDATING citizens BUY their defective products and pours $BILLIONS of Public Dollars into their already bloated pockets.

If THIS is the "start", I don't want to see the end.

[HuckleB]

17. Nice propaganda.

:eyes:

[bvar22]

18. Nice non response.

With which item I listed do you disagree?

OR

Is all you know how to do is post smilies?

[PufPuf23]

20. Bvar is correct

Unless a miracle occurs, this is another brick in the wall of fascism and population control/eugenics.

[Ozymanithrax]

21. Not according to the Progressive Senate Caucaus or Howard Dean...

I'll take their word for it.

[bvar22]

23. Howard Dean?

Isn't that the guy who said "If it doesn't contain a Public Option, it isn't reform"?

Dean is a good soldier, and will ultimately follow the Party Line,
no matter how bad the REALITY is.
The Democrats WILL close ranks to protect the Party while selling out the people who elected them.
They will rationalize the sell-out by saying "We fought hard, and this is the best we could do" without ever confronting the depths of the problem that confession exposes:
THIS is the BEST that The Democratic Party could do.

[EFerrari]

30. What does that even mean to you?

My children will probably lose me at least ten years early from lack of health care. If I want to pass any torches, I better do it very soon. lol

And as far as that goes, I don't think I want my children to work as runners for the insurance companies and Big Pharma, thanks.

[Mz Pip]

7. I believe the reason why

conservative anti-government types and corporate Dems believe that if that door is open just a crack, it will open wider and wider as time goes on until we really do have a decent single payer system or something that gives the Insurance companies real competition.

I've been around long enough to know that the wheels of change move slowly, too slowly for my taste but it is what it is.

So open that door just a sliver and I'll support it. Because it will be the beginning of a sea change for HCR.

[immoderate]

12. This system will break...

Just watch for it.

--imm

[Yuugal]

13. How did I know ignored would be the first reply?

Because they are always the first reply to these kinds of threads. The shills sure work a long day.

[tritsofme]

14. Ok, how do you count to 60?

Lieberman will kill any bill with a public option.

I thought we covered that this past week, this is as good as it gets.

[thotzRthingz]

19. "One thing I am certain about the final bill and a Public Option"

...and all you said that followed:

You are 100% correct. All this talk about "let's pass this thing now, and we'll revisit it later" is just so much BULLSHIT (an attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of every American).

If they know that it will have to be REVISITED, if they have even the slightest intention of REVISITING it... where is the MANDATE to do so? Where is the TRIGGER LANGUAGE, requiring them to REVISIT this fiasco? There is none... because they have no intention of revisiting... they must be thinking it has already cost them too dearly (in so as far as re-election campaigns go).

There is way too much OTHER STUFF which needs to be done... revisiting is the last thing on their minds (but it sounds good, so they'll keep saying it). DO IT RIGHT, THE FIRST TIME... instill a strong PUBLIC OPTION, or KILL THE DAMNED THING!

I fully intend to petition the progressives, in the House of Representatives, who have made a commitment to "A PUBLIC OPTION or NOTHING!" I invite everyone to do the same!

[ChicagoSuz219]

22. What is the difference between the Public Option...

...and the Public Exchange?

[ThomWV]

24. The public exchange is made up exclusively of private insurers, public option is gov run.

[ChicagoSuz219]

25. Aren't they all non-profit insurance companies/cheaper? n/t

[ThomWV]

26. Nonprofit insurance companies? What's that?

[ChicagoSuz219]

27. I believe it's what Congress has... their exchange...

...I want to learn more about it. I think that's what's in the bill. Anyone know?

[ChicagoSuz219]

29. I 'borrowed' this from another thread...

(a) ESTABLISHMENT OF PROGRAM.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall establish
a program to carry out the purposes of this section
to be known as the Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan
CO-OP) program.
2) PURPOSE.—It is the purpose of the CO-OP
program to foster the creation of qualified nonprofit
health insurance issuers to offer qualified health
plans in the individual and small group markets in
the States in which the issuers are licensed to offer
such plans.



STATES WITHOUT ISSUERS IN PROGRAM.—If no health insurance
issuer applies to be a qualified nonprofit health insurance
issuer within a State, the Secretary may use amounts
appropriated under this section for the awarding of grants
to encourage the establishment of a qualified nonprofit
health insurance issuer within the State or the expansion
of a qualified nonprofit health insurance issuer from another
State to the State.

(Also from other post:)
This bill pushes the states to include non profit insurers
into the exchanges going so far as to help create them if
they dont exist. It aint a public option but its pretty
damn close.
"For all those whose cares hav

[xchrom]

28. I was too late to rec -- but rec none the less.