What will happen when 30,000,000 newly insured people start

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

going to the doctor?

What will be the economic consequence?

Will health care costs rise due to demand?

[LynneSin]

1. Don't you know - it's all about "What's in it for me"

:grr:

btw K&R

[villager]

2. will they actually be able to afford to use the policies they'll be forced to buy

...in order to avoid the fines?

[dflprincess]

3. That's the question we should all be asking

because it won't just be the 30 million newly "covered" - a lot of us will be joing the ranks of the underinsured over the next few years.

[tridim]

4. Yes.

But you're right, the FUD you just posted works on some DU'ers. The GOP is doing the same thing right now on the Senate floor.

[villager]

5. and your reflexive undiscussed "yes" is based on...?

I'd be curious to see some numbers...

[tridim]

16. My "yes" is based on the text of the bill..

Your "be afraid!" is based on GOP FUD.

[villager]

22. More unsurprising snark. Which "text" from the bill?

n/t

[tridim]

24. THE Bill as a whole.

Do you even have a clue what the bill is all about?

If not, that may explain why you're taking the GOP side and using their words as ammunition.

[villager]

26. specifically -- if you can -- what in the bill makes co-pays/policies affordable for those forced

... to buy them?

In other words, what in these new policies will allow people to afford to see their doctors to a degree that people who already have insurance cannot?

Specifically?

Specifically.

[dawg]

35. Subsidies based on income ....

Subsidies that, if they turn out not to be enough, we can easily go back and increase through reconciliation since that would be a budget issue.

[villager]

45. but our subsidizing insurance company profits doesn't guarantee that people with

"get out of jail free" type policies can still afford to see their doctors, right?

I mean, if the co-pays are still onerous on basic policies designed to keep the government off your back, that doesn't mean better preventive care, necessarily, just as our "insurance company" model doesn't mean that, already.

Yes?

[Echo In Light]

6. If not, guess who will give less than a shit about their plight?

[LWolf]

10. That's the catch-22.

I already have insurance I can't afford to use. Private insurance limits legitimate care when we have nothing left after paying premiums for the copays & deductibles.

Adding another 30 million people to the list of those that can't afford to use their insurance is a huge dividend for those who are profiting off of not providing care.

[MineralMan]

18. Insurance you can't use, eh?

I have insurance with a high deductible. I have used it once. I pay for my very few doctor visits, since I must. However, when I collapsed with viral meningitis, that insurance saved my life. Was it worth it? I think so, and I still haven't paid as much in premiums as was paid out.

The key thing is in community health centers and other lower-cost options for primary care. Those things can be implemented in local areas and even statewide. I go to the doctor, on average, once a year. Costs me a couple hundred bucks. I don't go for minor stuff...ever. I never did. I don't go for a cold or the flu or a fish-hook in my finger. I deal with those myself. I go because I have to take blood pressure meds, and the doc insists on seeing me once a year. That's a good idea.

What people will have, with these policies is some assurance that they will not go bankrupt the minute they need hospitalization. That's something very worthwhile.

[LWolf]

20. I don't get my meds

because I can't afford to take the blood tests that are required to continue the prescriptions. I also, after paying premiums, don't have anything left in the budget for the meds themselves. That means the quality of my health continues to erode unnecessarily over time.

I've had one visit to a hospital for a major injury, which included a 6-day stay in intensive care. Insurance was good for that.

It still is, without the senate bill. These days, my deductible is bigger and it would cost me more. I'm already bankrupt, thanks to stepping in to take care of critical medical issues for my grandson, and taking two pay cuts in the last 12 months in order to keep my job.

A good health care plan does not include being grateful for the policy I pay for every month, even though I can't use it for things like pap smears, mammograms, blood tests, and needed prescriptions, because someday I might need to go to the hospital. I'd be a hell of a lot less likely to need the hospital if I got the outpatient care I need now.

[northernlights]

29. and when I had septicemia

weighed 80 pounds, had a recurring lump under my armpit (lymphoma?), severe insomnia, blurred vision, and more fun symptoms, I was told it was "all in my head" and sent packing. Apparently my life wasn't considered worth a CBC.

My dentist saved my life by giving me "prophylatic antibiotics" for a few weeks prior to removing the impacted wisdom teeth that it turned out were the underlying cause of the infection.

I paid out of pocket. Fortunately at the time my company-paid health insurance wasn't so expensive that I couldn't afford to pay for the antibiotics.

I also had the pleasure of witnessing the daily battles of a co-worker with his insurance company over his wife's diabetes treatment. Her life wasn't considered worth the insulin she needed either. She's lucky she had a husband to do battle for her, because when you're very sick you don't have the energy for the battle.

I plan to pay the fine. I take care of myself. I expect if I get very sick I will die. I made my peace with that decades ago. The only doctor I ever had who was really good didn't work within the insurance system any way.

[MineralMan]

12. More FUD.

Please stop doing that. Thank you.

[AlinPA]

7. These sound like points made by republicans when the health care "debate" started.

[MineralMan]

13. Bingo!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

21. There will be economic consequences whether republicans say so or not.

[Warpy]

8. No. The big losers in the short term might be funeral directors

providing people are actually able to buy insurance instead of being shut out by price--again--and told to fuck off and die quietly.

What we really need is to get insurance company bureaucrats out of the claims denial business. Just doing that will free up enormous amounts of physician time, more than enough to absorb and additional 10% of the population who now have to tough it out at home and hope they don't die yet.

Hospitals might be a little emptier as people are able to be managed at home without having the disease ignored until it's intensive care time.

In any case, going to the doctor isn't a fun outing. People are not going to go en masse, they're going to wait until they're sick.

Even if you have to wait an extra 6 minutes to see the doctor, is that actually worse than knowing so many of your fellow citizens are living in the terror of illness, afraid of being wiped out financially for even minor problems?

[Fumesucker]

9. You are assuming tthat those people will have enough money for the high copays..

And the high deductibles..

I suspect a lot of them will only have what amounts to catastrophic coverage in reality if not in theory, this will particularly be true for those who are barely scraping the money together for a minimum cost policy.

[villager]

11. +1

nt

[piratefish08]

14. The only 'economic consequence' that matters in DC is that ins. industry stock is up 31% since Oct.

Any other concerns are irrelevant.

[Skidmore]

15. Well, hell's bells, what the heck would we want to see people receive health care for?

Let's just leave them alone and let them get sicker or go undiagnosed. What kind of a questions are these?

I worked in a heath care center for quite some time and because of the insurance mess, the docs were locking people into their appointments for follow-up the next year to assure themselves of a patient base. More than once, I saw patients questions the need for the follow-up. In the meantime, we had patients losing access to services because they were dropped by their insurance companies.

[hayu_lol]

19. The initial flood of new medical claims...

will be lost by the insurance companies and will have to be resubmitted.

2nd submission will be automatically denied.

no 3rd submission because the patients died.

[rucky]

17. They're setting up the clinics for routine/preventative care.

Not saying that's the solution, but the concern has been addressed (thanks Sen Sanders!)

[villager]

23. right -- the best part of the bill comes from an Independent senator...

n/t

[silverweb]

33. It's a big part of the solution.

:thumbsup:

[Greyhound]

25. Fear not, they won't be able to actually go to a doctor,

our keepers will ensure that the co-payments and fees are ruinous enough to keep the rabble out of line.

[johnaries]

27. Guess what? It will create more JOBS!

I'm not sure about the Senate bill but I know the House bill has provisions to increase training of medical personnel to meet the increased need.

[silverweb]

34. Yup!

I was going to post that, but you beat me to it. :D

It will also increase jobs in peripheral fields, including mine (medical transcription), because of the push for auxiliary services and electronic medical records.

[NickB79]

39. My wife is a pharmacy tech, has a 2-yr degree, and only gets 15 hrs a wk

As do most of the other pharmacy techs at her job (many of whom don't even have ANY degrees to speak of).

Our fingers are crossed that this bill results in more hours or perhaps even a full-time position.

[kctim]

28. The costs will skyrocket

and in 5-10 years the govt will bail out the healthcare industry, which will then limp along for a few more years until it gets so bad that the govt will take it over and the mandate to buy private health insurance will become a mandate to buy govt health insurance and care. A tax.

Its a failed idea and the people would be better off being forced into single payer now.

[Blue-Jay]

30. Are you getting your talking points from Free Republic?

They covered this yesterday.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

43. I've never been to FR

[amborin]

31. the Virtual Doctor, in the Monday NY Times!

[Warren Stupidity]

32. That is actually one of the rightwing talking points against health care reform.

it goes something like "if all those people start going to the doctor then I will have to wait longer and it will raise costs".

It is a bullshit argument. those people are pushing costs up by not going to the doctor until they are emergency room sick enough to qualify for must treat laws. Doctors will adjust. If there is suddenly more money in signing up lots of relatively young healthy people for primary care physician practices, there will be more primary care physicians.

Nothing is going to happen overnight. 30M people aren't making appointments tomorrow.

[silverweb]

36. Ditto that.

:thumbsup:

[tranche]

37. 30,000,000 will start getting preventive care. And 30,000,000 people's...

lives will be made that much better. Really, what are the problems you forsee? Can you put that in your OP?

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

44. I just wondered what will be the economic consequences

and started a discussion thread. Some people are upset that this is a RW talking point,

but the fact remains that for every action there is a reaction. Good or bad, that's what i

intended. As for myself, i don't have insurance, so it may be good for me if i can afford the

premiums.

[HuckleB]

38. That's been a big question all along.

It was mentioned early in the process, but that problem seems to be forgotten by our legislators. Or have I missed something?

[Vinca]

40. Don't worry about it. Assuming those same 30,000,000 are actually able

to afford to buy a policy, they'll be just like the insured today: unable to afford deductibles and co-pays so they don't go unless they're at death's door. Uninsured numbers down, bankruptcy numbers up.

[mdmc]

41. Why would they be able to go to the doctor?

where are they gonna get the $40.oo co-payment?

[phasma ex machina]

42. Get in line. nt