Impact on the Arctic - GLOBAL WARMING (2009 report summery)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

World Wildlife Federation

According to the U.S. Global Change Research Program report, Global Climate Change Impacts in the United States (2009):
“Over the past 50 years, Alaska has warmed at more than twice the rate as the rest of the United States. Its annual average temperature has increased 3.4°F, while winters have warmed by 6.3°F. The higher temperatures are already causing earlier spring snowmelt, reduced sea ice, widespread glacier retreat, and permafrost warming. The observed changes are consistent with climate model projections of greater warming over Alaska, especially in winter, as compared to the rest of the country.

The report identifies several key issues for Alaska as climate rapidly changes:

“Longer summers and higher temperatures are causing drier conditions, even in the absence of strong trends in precipitation.”
“Insect outbreaks and wildfires are increasing with warming.”
“Lakes are declining in area.”
“Thawing permafrost damages roads, runways, water and sewer systems, and other infrastructure.”
“Coastal storms increase risks to villages and fishing fleets.”
“Displacement of marine species will affect key fisheries.”

Did you know that half of the worst fire seasons in Alaska’s 56-year old record were in 2004 and 2005 – and that half of the most severe fire years on record have been since 1990? As climate changes, the average area burned each year may double by the middle of this century.

http://www.worldwildlife.org/climate/act-for-our-future/alaska.html?sc=AWY1000WCGG0&searcen=google&gclid=CO2I8uvk6p4CFQKdnAodtDRHJA

Would anyone like to add information on the effect rapidly rising sea-levels, due the Arctic meltdown, will have on the rest of our planet?

[Winterblues]

1. I doubt the Arctic thaw will add to the sea level

That happens when ice that is upon land melts. The ice in the Arctic floats and the displacement will not change.

[TexasProgresive]

2. The Arctic is a whole lot more then the polar ice cap

How about northern Canada, Alaska, Russia and Greenland for starters. If that arctic ice melts it does raise sea level since it is on land and not floating ice.

[alfredo]

24. Melting permafrost releases large amounts of Methane.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment/2009-10-29-methane-global-warming_N.htm


Greenhouse gas calculations blame carbon dioxide too much for global warming, and methane too little, suggest researchers Thursday.
In the journal Science, a team led by Drew Shindell of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York finds that chemical interactions between greenhouse gases other than carbon dioxide cause more global warming than previously estimated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and other efforts.

"The total amount of warming doesn't change, just the balance of gasses behind it," Shindell says.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

3. glaciers are melting and...

"Thawing permafrost" also yields rising sea-levels.

While not directly linked to polar meltdown, these effects are also anticipated:

"Sea Level Rise Due To Global Warming Poses Threat To New York City
ScienceDaily (Mar. 16, 2009) — Global warming is expected to cause the sea level along the northeastern U.S. coast to rise almost twice as fast as global sea levels during this century, putting New York City at greater risk for damage from hurricanes and winter storm surge, according to a new study led by a Florida State University researcher.

Jianjun Yin, a climate modeler at the Center for Ocean-Atmospheric Prediction Studies (COAPS) at Florida State, said there is a better than 90 percent chance that the sea level rise along this heavily populated coast will exceed the mean global sea level rise by the year 2100. The rising waters in this region -- perhaps by as much as 18 inches or more -- can be attributed to thermal expansion and the slowing of the North Atlantic Ocean circulation because of warmer ocean surface temperatures."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090315155112.htm

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Polar sea thaw exposes dark water. Dark water absorbs heat,

rather than reflecting heat as ice does. Absorbed heat in arctic waters raises arctic temps, causing increased thawing of ice sheets and glaciers on lands surrounding the arctic ocean.

The arctic thaw contributes directly to the rise in sea level.

[Motown_Johnny]

22. Antarctica.. Greenland....the ice is on Land

[tinrobot]

40. So if the house next door is on fire, it's not a concern?

This is our canary in the coal mine. We'd be wise to pay attention because Greenland and Antarctica are next...

[Uncle Joe]

5. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Jeffersons Ghost.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

8. thanks

[winyanstaz]

6. The world has always had periods of warming and then cooling again.

and coastlines have ALWAYS changed.
The whole hype about global warming is not to clean up the planet...if it was they would be starting with the texas size island of plastic floating in the pacific...
It is about TAXING YOU more. NOT the big businesses that are spewing toxins...but YOU and ME.
It's about stealing whatever else they can..and laying the groundwork for their New World Order.
By every measure, the Pentagon is the largest institutional user of petroleum products and energy over all.
If they really wanted to make a change in the carbon...then they should stop all the wars FIRST.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. If you're trying to make an argument or arguments, you've already contradicted yourself.

Let's start with:

"The world has always had periods of warming and then cooling again"

....and? Yes, the world has had periods of warming and cooling. Many of them can be correlated to atmospheric CO2 levels, as seen here:



However, merely saying- as many man-made global warming denialists tend to do- that "the Earth has periods of warming and cooling" does NOT prove or even have bearing on whether man-made CO2 emissions are fundamentally altering our climate. Is the argument that, because Earth has NATURAL variations in its temperature over long periods of time, it is impossible for man to have any effect on the climate? We could be in a natural warming period, true. We could ALSO be causing the climate to warm through fossil fuel use. In which case, it becomes doubly imperative for us to mitigate whatever effects we are having on the climate.

"if it was they would be starting with the texas size island of plastic floating in the pacific..."

That's a separate issue. It's sort of like saying "If we were serious about curing cancer, there wouldn't be homeless people on our streets" Yes, we should deal with the shit in the ocean, but it's not the same issue.

"It's about stealing whatever else they can..and laying the groundwork for their New World Order."

Oh, for fuck's sake. Ron Paul? Alex Jones? Is that you? :shrug: Lookout,the UN Black Helicopters are coming to force your kids to put condoms on bananas and worship Satan! :hide:

Let me guess, it's all about making Al Gore rich, too, right?

"By every measure, the Pentagon is the largest institutional user of petroleum products and energy over all.
If they really wanted to make a change in the carbon...then they should stop all the wars FIRST."

Who is "they"?
Actually, the Pentagon is well aware of the risks to security- mine, yours, and all of ours- posed by global climate change:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/tech/nextnews/archive/next040227.htm

They understand that we can't fuck around with this.. unlike a disturbingly large number of people.

So which is it? It's not real? It's real but it's not our fault? It's real, it's our fault, but actually doing anything about it is a big plot?

I'd advise you pick ONE avenue of disagreement and stick with that, instead of mashing them all together.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

9. thanks for the well-informed post, Warren. He did get one thing right...

They (politicians) will likely blame and tax us little guys (car owners) while mega-cooperations continue to release vast amounts CO2 unabated.

[winyanstaz]

14. Wow...hahaahahaa...umm no wait...your serious arent you? :P hahahaa

"
Oh, for fuck's sake. Ron Paul? Alex Jones? Is that you? Lookout,the UN Black Helicopters are coming to force your kids to put condoms on bananas and worship Satan!"

I think you'be been smoking too many of those bananas you seem to be so focused on.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. I'll ask again. Maybe this time you can work up a real answer.

Which is it:

It's not real?

It's real but it's not our fault?

It's real, it's our fault, but actually doing anything about it is a big plot?


(As for Alex Jones and the Black Helicopters, any time someone starts flapping their arms about the "New World Order", my nutjob meter goes off the chart. :hi:)

[winyanstaz]

26. So even though Henry Kissinger, Bush sr, Gordon Brown as well as

the current president of the United Nations (not to mention many others) have all talked about a New World Order it doesn't exist?
As to global warming..the world has always had periods of heating up and cooling down. I have yet to see any proof it is man made.
A single volcano can put out a lot of it...and so far..the worse we see is plants grow better and faster with more carbon dioxide.
I am for cleaning up the planet and fining the pants off any one caught polluting our air and water and food, but I am NOT for the taxpayers footing the damn bill or paying taxes for it. Especially when the pentagon with its millions of pounds of daily carbon dioxide emissions for it's endless wars is the biggest producers of carbon dioxide on the planet.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I'm sure Kissinger, Poppy, Brown, etc. have all said "Ow, My Toe!" at some point, too.

Funny, you can use the fact that these people have all strung together 3 extremely common words as proof of some far-flung conspiracy, but you can't accept any correlation between quantitative increases in atmospheric CO2 since the beginning of the industrial revolution to, say, the polar caps melting as "proof" the warming has anything to do with man.

[winyanstaz]

30. so..are you now claiming they have no toes because they said...

oh my toe? sheesh..they talk about the new world order,..they admit it exists and that they have goals and plans to implement it.
As to the polar caps melting...again...we have always had periods of the earth heating up and cooling off.
Something that may account for ice disappearing is the sun spots lack of activity.
You might also try some research into the fact that it is now proven that the data used to prove global warming was wrong in the first place.
You might also try some research into the fact that the pole has already shifted to some degrees and that would also account for some changes.
You might also try some research into the military playing with the ozone layers for their Haarp program to account for the ozone.
You might also take into account that the latest figures show that the earth has stopped warming and is indeed entering into a new cooling period this last ten years.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=is+the+earth+cooling+down&aq=2&oq=Is+the+earth+cooling&aqi=g4

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Mmmmm Hmmm.

Like "World Peace" or "Improved International Relations", "New World Order" can mean just about anything, notwithstanding the fact that certain fringe elements have latched upon the use of those 3 words as "proof" that Satan Worshipping Lizards from Outer Space are plotting at the Bohemian Grove to turn us all into fast food for their Intergalactic Peopleburger outlets.

I just don't understand why the Capital-C Conspiracy™ doesn't come up with a more clever signifier for what they want to achieve, or if it is supposed to be such a spooky secret, the PTB keep dropping those 3 words which they know drive all the nutjobs (sorry, truth-seekers) crazy?

:crazy:

[winyanstaz]

34. so even Obama is a nutjob now? (sorry, truth-seeker)

Sep 22, 2009 ... "Sep 22, 2009 ... Our children should be more fearful of global warming policies than global warming itself. .... as we will then be living in a one world government," ... Obama's speech to the UN

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Um... what the FUCK are you talking about?

So, now you're just making shit up?

Where is your source on that quote?

Please.

Provide a link. I'd like to find out exactly which stripe of bullshit you're coming here to peddle.






...




In the meantime, here is the text of Obama's UN speech, 9-22-09. If you can find the quote you just posted, please, show me where it is:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/22/obama-un-climate-change-s_n_294628.html

[winyanstaz]

36. sorry..my bad not to include a link or to be clearer to finish the post...

it was about the summery by the Heiratage foundation about Obama's speech..and here is the link.

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/09/22/dissecting-president-obama%E2%80%99s-global-warming-speech/


and you sir need to work on your temper.
You can also go find someone else to scream at as I will not be replying to anymore of your posts.
I am not here to fight with people like you.
Have a happy holiday.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. It is a "summery by the Heiratage foundation about Obama's speech.."

That says it all, right there, spelling errors included.

Okay, let's start with this: You put words in Obama's mouth. He didn't say them.

The FUCKING Heritage Foundation said them. You are quoting the Fucking Heritage Foundation-- here, at DU- and attributing it to President Obama.

"I am not here to fight with people like you";


Yeah. So why *are* you here, then?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Winterblues]

11. So you are opposed to the USA becoming more Energy Aware?

Putting Carbon in the air is no different than throwing paper on the ground. It is litter. We can do so very much better. We are living in the space age and it is time to get away from ninteenth century ideas. We can be both clean and effecient with Green technology, way more so than we currently are. Cheaper as well for all.

[winyanstaz]

13. no I am not apposed to America becoming more energy aware...

That is not what I wrote at all.
I am for the better use of energy and I am for green and renewable energy as well.
Try re-reading the post.

[DCBob]

20. What a dumb argument.. Any idiot knows the climate has changed over the eons..

The changes we are seeing now appear to be different from a typical natural cycle. It is happening too rapidly and there is no natural cause to attribute it too. The rise in CO2 since the industrial revolution is most plausible reason since it correlates so well with temperature increase.

[winyanstaz]

33. and to what measurements and numbers are you basing this on?

I know it has not been looked at much in DU, but the rest of the world is well aware that the numbers used for the global warming model have already been debunked and PROVEN to be false by the same scientists that made the model.
Here is a time line of the growth of this plot..they have been working on this for the last 30 years.

http://joannenova.com.au/globalwarming/climategate/history/2009.12.23_climategate_30_years_in_the_making_banner.pdf

Their private emails were released to the public and if you bother to read them you will find the numbers WERE fudged and they KNEW they had to frighten us to get us to do what they want..which is to form a base for a One World Government (it starts with controlling the carbon emissions) to have power over our local governments. (See U.N. President's latest video)
also do some research on Sep 22, 2009 ... "Sep 22, 2009 ... Our children should be more fearful of global warming policies than global warming itself. .... as we will then be living in a one world government," ... Obama's speech to the UN

[amborin]

10. and all the forests there diseased & dying due to warming temps

that allow predator insects to feed on the trees, which are also weakened by the higher temps

[winyanstaz]

15. do you actually have a fact to back this up with? I would love to see a link on that...

Here I thought deseases were caused by bacteria and nasty little viruses and bugs. :P

[amborin]

21. here is one link:

there are many:

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2006-05-29-alaska-globalwarming_x.htm

[winyanstaz]

25. ty for the link...yes I do agree there is a change going on...

but I just dont see where that is man made. The world has always had times of heating and cooling.
I am for cleaning up pollution and green energy that doesnt harm the planet..but I think that can be accumplished by fining the giant companies doing the majority of the pollution and not by taxing the little guys.
We can also stop the pentagon from their wars all over the place as they are the biggest carbon dioxide makers on the planet right now.
All without robbing the taxpayers.
NOR do we need a one world government to do so.
This climategate mess is a power grab and nothing more.

[amborin]

27. well,

we agree on some points and disagree on others

maybe you are putting your finger on what is the real problem for many who
say they are skeptical about climate change: the fear they will have to pay for this?

but how would you or i be taxed?

why can't you and i and everyone take little steps to reduce our energy useage?

and what's wrong with less consumption? why do we have to buy into the idea of unlimited
out of control economic development? why are new housing subdivisions more beautiful than original forests?

who do you think is trying to grab power?

please, i don't mean to sound aggressive, i'm just wanting to understand

[winyanstaz]

32. you may find this interesting and holding many answers...

http://joannenova.com.au/globalwarming/climategate/history/2009.12.23_climategate_30_years_in_the_making_banner.pdf


I agree..we must take better care of our planet and there are many ways we can do so.
One of the fastest ways would be to end these wars because of the massive carbon dioxide given off by the military on a daily basis..makes them the biggest carbon dioxide producers on the planet.
Another would be to spend the money we now waste on wars on phasing out oil altogether.

As to whom is trying to grab power...follow the money.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. This will tell you all you need to know about the entity you're arguing with.

"That quote I attributed to Obama? It came from The Heritage Foundation."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7299012&mesg_id=7319850


....:eyes:

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. "people can read the real post for themselves." That's right.

They can see that you claimed President Obama said something he didn't, they can see that you admitted that the "Obama quote" you posted actually came from a notorious Far Right Wing/Religious Right think tank organization, they can see that, when called on all of the above you flipped right the fuck out.

Whatever names you might want to call me (I have one for you, too- it starts with "T") ...hey, at least I know how to spell. :hi:

[Warren DeMontague]

29. I think a lot of the worst emissions are coming from underneath bridges.

:shrug:

[timeforpeace]

12. "rapidly rising sea-levels" Exactly how much have they risen?

[winyanstaz]

17. I dont think the sea levels have risen at all...

coastlines have always changed..just alike a river bank changes from year to year.
If they have risen I have yet to see any accurate report on that..but I am open to finding out what is really going on.
I live close to the oceon and have not seen any changes due to the water being higher here on the Washington coast where I have lived for many years now.
The only changes I have seen have been due to waves and storms so far.

[DCBob]

19. They have risen a bit but not a great deal yet..

The big rise will come when the Greenland and Antarctic icesheets begin to melt.

[DCBob]

16. Well, just a few feet rise in sea level will have drastic effects since..

many of the major cities around the world are at or very near sea level. This will cause tremendous problems with many low-lying businesses and residential districts in coastal cities. There could be hundreds of millions of homeless refugees and widespread chaos. Not a pretty site.

[Blue_In_AK]

18. 11 million acres burned here in 2004 and 2005.

[winyanstaz]

37. Native Americans have always practiced controlled burns in order to insure

meadows where berries will grow and fire breaks. The Sealth-Seattle tribe is one of the tribes that did this here in WA state.
When you do not take care of the forests properly (also planting all one kind of tree is BAD for the same reasons)...there is not enough breaks or diversity to sustain the forests in a safe way.
Natives did farm but in a different type of way then white men. They didn't dig up, cut down and cement over the land but worked with the land. Nor did they clear-cut or take ALL of a plant or animal species in an area.