Boxer said the bill is good because left and right dislike it. An insult to your base.

[madfloridian]

Barbara Boxer on Countdown said it was a good bill if the left and right both disliked it.

Durbin said that the other day also.

What the heck kind of talking point is that?

We elected Democrats to vote for Democratic principals, not to make "the left" unhappy at the bill and then brag about it.

Who sent out that talking point anyway.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. I remind her of that next time she emails me for money.

[3waygeek]

9. That'll be tomorrow, probably.

I get solicitations from her on an almost daily basis, even though I don't live in her state nor have I donated to her in the past.

[FiveGoodMen]

13. Yup. I just deleted one from her earlier today.

However, I've thought in the past that Boxer was one of the better ones.

Now she just sounds like more of the same.

[chimpymustgo]

28. Hit reply and put "PUBLIC OPTION NOW" in the header.

[FiveGoodMen]

29. Good idea. I'll do that next time. (the last one she sent is already deleted)

[LooseWilly]

70. I like it...

I get at least 6 emails a week from her at this point... this will be one way to cheer up my days... :)

[beyurslf]

2. I can see how they can say it makes it a good compromise.

If the liberals and conservatives don't like it, then you took out the ends and left the middle. I don't agree this makes it a good bill but I see what they are saying.

[madfloridian]

24. That is not how you keep a majority. UNLESS

....you just don't care.

[beyurslf]

25. Oh no. I hope the bill is defeated.

I just understand what they are trying to say. I say fuck the right and the center. I am an unabashed far left crazy liberal.

[tnlefty]

37. Well I get more than sick and tired of being lumped in

with the right as a 'look, see', but I could be jaded 'cause the right around here is more than fuckin' nuts.

And shame on you Sen. Boxer.

[madfloridian]

46. That's my point. They treat us just like the right.

[tnlefty]

50. I know and I understand the point that you were trying

to make. :hug: I was responding to someone who seemed to understand what is being done as if to condone it.

Her opponent is a nasty piece of repub crap, but she doesn't hold a candle to the crazies around here, and I get sick of the 'the left and the right are both pissed so we must be doing the right thing' crap. I had the misfortune to witness Bob Casey pulling the same crap with Greta Van Susteren on Faux.

[omega minimo]

35. If ANY of those terms were meaningful and true, there might be a point there. They're NOT

[Hatchling]

3. WTF!!?

It's like all the good congresspeople have suddenly ben replaced by Stepford clones or pod people. That does NOT sound like Boxer to me at all.

Have they all been threatened or something?

[noise]

4. The right dislikes anything that isn't

a total profiteering deregulated scam.

It is extremely important to discern between left and right criticism. The left wants affordable, quality healthcare. The reason the left is portrayed as fringe and out of touch is because the insurance companies are opposed to affordable, quality healthcare.

[RainDog]

5. I didn't think I would want to leave the U.S. after Bush was defeated. but I do. n/t

[GreenArrow]

6. She might want to consider that both right and left

dislike it because it's a bad bill.

[clear eye]

22. Exactly. And we're talking grassroots not gov't. n/t

[amborin]

7. k&r what must her major donor, emily's list, be thinking?

I've always supported Boxer, she's been great on so many issues.

my guess is: dems have no choice but to tout this bill as "good," to save their political futures.

too bad not one in office had the guts to reject the very flawed bill!

[Raine]

8. such arrogance

:eyes: I'll remember that next year when she's up for re-election and solicits me for a donation.

[rudy23]

10. The center is very ready to hear why THEY didn't get the public option either.

Don't worry, Barbara, people on the left and right include more of that delicious center than you think.

[JVS]

11. People who say that are fucking stupid.

[Gregorian]

12. She made a good point about passing the bill.

Her sentiment was that if we don't put a dent in the momentum these big companies have, they'll be even bigger by the time this opportunity comes around again. I've now lost what exactly she said in regards to how the bill does that. But there were several things I hadn't heard before her talk. I don't think Boxer is goofing around with us. I always thought she called things as she sees them.

[clear eye]

26. "I've now lost what exactly she said in regards to how the bill does that."

Isn't that the crux of the issue--whether or not this can lead to something better? My take is that w/ the absolute deluge of new money the anti-trust exempt insurance cos. will be getting, they can only have more influence on Congress in the future, and the momentum will all be in the wrong direction. It will also block the states from instituting single payer, no matter how dire the insurance and cost situation gets.

She's no spring chicken. Maybe she's starting to lose it? This is not the Barbara Boxer who called for an investigation into election fraud in Ohio in 2004, when everyone else wanted to just go ahead and certify the results.

[Gregorian]

43. Thanks. I'm still unable to fully come to a conclusion on this.

It's a no brainer that medicare style care is far superior to insurance based.

I just think there might be enough restrictions in even the Senate bill that will slow down the growth of the insurance companies.

I'm only thinking in terms of reality. The reality that we're making decisions with Republicans on our backs. Actually, that shouldn't be a part of the equation given we own both houses. Now I'm thinking out loud. Haha.

It's quite maddening. I'm afraid I'm going to come out the end of this process realizing we've been had again. Then I'll be a cynic for life.

[clear eye]

56. It's not so much that we've been had (as in fooled) as that the electoral process

has been so compromised by enormously powerful players that we aren't given much choice. What's most disturbing is that this group of loosely allied mega-corporatists, while pursuing what they believe is their own advancement, are taking the world in a direction from which it will be hard to recover, especially regarding the environment. As a friend of mine said succinctly, "They're drunk w/ power."

Only if we acknowledge what has happened, will we be able to begin to correct it. Although it's clear that in order for the people to regain true representation in gov't we have to change how campaigns are financed, do as Germany did and get rid of electronic voting machines whose counts can't be trusted, and reinstate the "Fairness Doctrine" for TV and radio so that people who try to spout fallacies in support of corporatism are immediately called on it, the powerful forces aren't about to just let us do this. They don't want gov't to once again be a countervailing force, a voice of the people, against an unchecked elite. It will take a widespread national populist movement to get back our gov't enough so that it again begins to resemble what is in the Constitution and what we learned about in school.

It's tempting to say, "That's too much. It'll never happen," and slide into cynicism. But that doesn't have to be true. We have numbers on our side, and even small businesses are being hurt by the way things are. The young men in our military have been raised in an environment where they are allowed express their beliefs, and many are already expressing doubt about the Mideast wars, so they can't be counted on to turn on their own peaceable people in the streets. As the economy worsens due to the policies of the powerful and selfish few, the motivation to get out and do something grows stronger. The Teabaggers are evidence of this. Cindy Sheehan is starting it, w/ her peace encampment in DC. She is explicit that it is not only this particular war, but the war machine and the unchecked power behind it, that is the problem. She has made the connection b/t spending for war and widespread poverty. Others are beginning to organize in various places as well. (See the Bill Moyers Journal segment on the City Life anti-eviction group in Dorchester, Boston.) When they grow large enough, the different groups will begin to coalition. The movement will have to be non-violent. As in the independence movement in India, the people cannot win in a physical struggle.

The American people have a kind of dogged perserverence. It's what allowed us to farm in difficult climates in our heartland, it's what kept us going in unpleasant factory jobs until we got our pensions, it's what makes it possible for many young people to work their way through college. It's not so much the underclass who mostly haven't been taught the advantage of controlling impulses and working for a reward in the future, but the middleclass who know how to keep fighting until getting at least a part of our dreams.

Right now is not the easiest time to be an ordinary American. Unlike the previous generation we can't just do as we've been taught and expect that if we work hard and make good choices on Election Day, the system, including gov't, will work for us. It is no longer possible w/o massive self-deception to believe that we can primary out all the bought and beholden Senators b/c the reality of the current set-up for the Senators, including Ms. Boxer, is that they have to take that corrupting money to stay in office.

What we have left are two possibilities. One, that we continue as we've been--working harder and harder for less and less real spending power, engaging in a mostly sham election process, and watch our children's hopes die as the U.S. becomes a country of a few masters and many impoverished serfs and the earth slips toward unlivibility. Or two, we call on our inner strength and join w/ others to use the avenue left to us now that simply voting no longer works, and make it impossible to ignore our right to be truly represented in our government. We have to start pencilling "protest" into our blackberries and daybooks. We have to demand the process be restored to functionality along w/ correcting the worst abuses the dysfunctionality has allowed--diversion of wealth away from job creation, imperialist wars, and refusal to do what needs to be done to keep the earth livable. We have to demand it and demand it and demand it and demand it, with more and more of our friends until we can't be ignored. It's not how most of us planned or would prefer to spend our scarce leisure time, but the alternative is just too dismal. And in return for taking action, we will lose our helplessness.

[rosesaylavee]

59. This should really be a separate post ...

it is a good description of this mess we have gotten ourselves into. I think this sense that despite our best efforts in getting this admin into office, we are still helpless as either things are not happening as quickly as we had hoped or it appears important policy changes from the crazy Bush years are not going to change at all. DU certainly reflects this growing reaction to events.

Thank you for posting!

[Gregorian]

60. Your post is a most hopeful one.

I do think you should post it as an original thread. I'm quite busy at the moment, and haven't looked the board over. You may have already posted it.

I have some disagreements with some of what you say, but that's because I've been cynical. Mainly that we are the ones enabling the big corporations. But then your post is really about how we can take that back. So I have no disagreements. Just disbelief that we'll do it. But that's why your post is so valuable. I think we know that not just Americans, but all people are good. I think the time we live in is changing at an exponential rate in many ways. And that's very frightening. But that doesn't change the reality of what you said.

I think my fear is that the majority of people are busy living out their little lives, and will only work as a bigger unit, with a degree of seriousness, if facing a crisis. We're facing it now.

[clear eye]

62. Hey, Sundays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays I believe we'll make the right choice

and Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays I don't. But I keep working to do my bit because it allows me to hope, and I can't seem to help caring about the next generation and our country.

I don't think DU is the place for this as a separate thread.

[inna]

76. Please make this an OP!! It's a very important post, and more people should see it!

:applause:

[glitch]

14. Et tu, Senator Boxer? We're not ALL binary idiots.

In fact most of us aren't.

Underestimating our intelligence does not make you appear smarter, quite the opposite. I do still love you, but if you try to pass off this turd as sausage... I will lose a little respect.

edit: it sounds like the kind of talking point Rahm would put out, and think clever.

[bigwillq]

15. Wow.

:mad:

[optimator]

16. why don't these third-way scums run as Independents

since they have so much disdain for the left?

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Normally Boxer isn't one of those, which is why this is so shocking and disheartening.

[begin_within]

17. So that is the new standard for deciding the merits of a bill?

[KoKo]

18. I'll Cut her some Slack..she has a RW Contender? BUT...what she and other Dems Promised Us

after the 2000 Selection when they and Boxer were our "Only Hope in the Wilderness" has seemed to go flat.

Remember Barbara was one of the Few who spoke out against the 2000 Selection and the 2004 Selection and joined Conyers in his hearings.

It must be so TOXIC for DEMS under Harry Reid that even our Dems (Liberal) can't go against him.

If anyone has some "bad stuff" on Boxer please post. I've never seen her be less than a chapion for Liberal/Progressive Dems.

I just think Harry Reid needs to go. He controls a WHIP and makes everyone fall in line with him in his Nevada Cacino Politics!

Harry "The Boxer" was EVER going to stand up for Liberals from States outside Nevada? Give me a BREAK..
:puke: ...He was raking in the MAFIA DOUGH along with Lobbyists crap donations!

[Cleita]

19. My boss once said some time ago that a good deal is one where both

parties are unsatisfied with the final price. ??? :wtf: I don't get it either.

[vi5]

20. Can you imagine if a Republican said that...

..how quickly they would be reprimanded by the Republican leadership and how quickly they'd retract what they said for fear of recriminations from their base?

The democratic party has become a bunch of pathetic, media narrative obsessed shills. I'm done with them.

[eleny]

21. That was a disappointing piece of work

k&r

[FLAprogressive]

23. Even Boxer is trashing liberals now? Obama-loyalty-mania knows no ends.

[change_notfinetuning]

27. Right out of the book, "Logic for DUMMIES!" n/t

[sendero]

30. She forgot to mention that the middle ..

... doesn't like it either.

[omega minimo]

31. Wow, Barbara, is the KoolAid in Congressional water fountains, now?

:wow:

[mcablue]

32. Is there a transcript?

Just wondering if she really said that.

[madfloridian]

40. Yes, she really said it. The transcript won't be up until tomorrow. Link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32390646/ns/msnbc_tv-about_msnbc_tv/

I do not post stuff that is not true.

[AuntPatsy]

78. I know you don't post things that are not true, but I was hoping just this once that you did...

honestly, it makes me sick...I am not sure how I feel about a comment like that as if this whole issue becomes nothing more than another game of winning. I am so not comfortable with knowing how we the people are seemingly so expendable when it comes to our concerns being taken too seriously..

It really does make me ill....

[Hissyspit]

61. I saw it. She said it.

I said something nasty to the screen - don't remember what.

[Starry Messenger]

33. Evidently it's the Obama Doctrine.

People have been parroting that line here for months about everything, beginning with Rick Warren. I guess Boxer got the memo, too.

[begin_within]

36. A tele-fundraiser for Boxer called me just now.

I was prepared to say why I wouldn't donate, and quote her statement that the bill is good because the left and right both dislike it. However, he was only interested in trying to get money for me and showed no interest in asking why I kept turning him down. Basically it was:
"Bla bla bla bla bla can we count on your support with $100 today?"
"No."
"I understand bla bla bla bla bla Carly Fiorina bla bla bla can we count on your support for $50 today?"
"No."
"I fully understand, bla bla bla bla difficult economic times bla bla bla bla can we count on your support for $25 today?"
"No."
At that point I thought he might ask why, if I had some reason, and I was prepared to repeat Boxer's statement about the left and right disliking the bill, and prepared to say that she lost any support I may have had for her at that moment. But he simply thanked me and wished me a pleasant evening. I guess they don't really care about the electorate, they only care about skimming money from the electorate. By the way I have no idea how they got my name and phone number, I have never donated to Boxer or the Democratic party in general, only to specific candidates and they did not include Boxer.

[peacetalksforall]

38. I think Rove invented that talkingpoint. I don't get it and no one is explaining it.

I'm open to some support rational, otherwise it will go down with me as a poorly thought out and disgusting remark (to me).

[Nikki Stone1]

39. Boxer is disappointing me terribly. I really liked her too. But she doesn't get it.

Or maybe she does and I misjudged her all along.

[OHdem10]

41. That Spin--right does not like it and left does not like.

The real truth Senator Boxer---If Right is upset and the Left is upset
there is something really wrong.

If something is so bad the Right Meets the Left--look out.

Could it be that both the right and left are simply sick
of Big Business always being the winner. Both Parties worshiping
at Corporate altars.

[babylonsister]

42. You are telling people this is an insult? Please. What the hell kind

of talking point are you promoting, dissing two Dems at once?

Whose side are you on?

And ftr, I'm not insulted. :eyes:

[madfloridian]

45. It is a put down. I see you linked to it in the post attacking Dean.

There is such anger toward anyone who criticizes this administration. It is scaring me.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

44. I see this got linked to GDP in a post that attacks Dean. Interesting.

[dana_b]

48. hmm... interesting

I have contributed to her in the past few months and I was seriously thinking of volunteering for her but now she can stuff it!!

[Duer 157099]

49. Unreal. I'd wager that both the right and left dislike bin Laden, too. So I guess he's "good" too?

The criteria they are using is just mind boggling.

[laughingliberal]

51. Hey, Mandate sandpaper to wipe your butt. The left and the right hate it nt

[eridani]

52. The left and right both hated NAFTA too

That must mean that centrist corporate whores are always right in their opposition to "extremes."

[TheWebHead]

53. agree with Boxer

if the far left and far right hate something for different reasons, the smart money is on the other side of the wingnut trade.

[Karmadillo]

54. Power corrupts.

nt

[Vidar]

55. Most unworthy of Boxer.

[newspeak]

58. there are adds on 24/7 in my state now

attempting to "sell" the public on this bill. I keep wondering where they got all that money to sponsor these ads. Ads from AARP about how great this bill is, ads from others, ads thanking Harry Reid for this bill. Again, they're really putting out the money to sell this bill

[WI_DEM]

57. Wow! Barbara Boxer is probably right.

[thereismore]

63. That's NOT what she said. Your paraphrasing is wrong.

She said the Nelson amendment was compromised to the point where neither side was happy with it. Sometimes I can't stand DU.

[Wardoc]

64. The fallacy of the compromise. If I offer you pie, and you offer to shoot me in the face...

a good decision isn't to compromise and take half my pie and shoot me in the knee.

[FrenchieCat]

65. Boxer under the bus!

[fascisthunter]

68. no... it's the base that was thrown under the bus

[Major Hogwash]

66. That's a crazy sort of metric, now isn't it? We pissed on everyone, so we did a good job.

She must have been drinking when she said that.

[fascisthunter]

67. well, fuck them... they don't need us now and next election they don't need us then

I'm done with all these corporate losers.

[Marr]

69. In other words, the population is against it, but...

the establishment is for it, and who gives a shit what the peons think?

[yurbud]

71. sounds like an ORahma talking point.

[silverweb]

72. It means *both* sides had to give up something.

That's called negotiated compromise. It's how things get done.

Senator Boxer is one of the best friends progressives have in the Senate on many fronts. She's been a consistent fighter for liberal causes her entire career, and has earned a great deal of power to do good at this point, i.e. as chair of the Environment and Public Works Committee.

We need her in the Senate, and any Democrat who disparages her because she understands the necessity of compromise in order to make progress is a reactionary, malignant fool -- as bad for liberal progress as the teabaggers are for the "conservatives."

[madfloridian]

74. I am not a "malignant fool". I did not vote for those who please the right...

as much as they please the left.

I am done with that.

[joeybee12]

73. Durbin said that also...nice to know these 2 lemmings got their marching orders. n/t

[madfloridian]

75. BTW I very much like Boxer, but she disappointed me on this.

I think too often they adapt the language of the right without thinking.

[inna]

77. Too bad, I actually tend to like her (Boxer).

:(

[brentspeak]

79. Boxer has never been the brightest bulb

During an interview with Sam Seder a few years ago on the issue of bringing more troops to Iraq to support the outnumbered and beleaguered troops already there, she said that wouldn't be a good idea because "It would just increase the number of troops who would be targets of the terrorists." This was after she maintained that there shouldn't be an immediate troop withdrawal. So, her idea was to keep the troops there for the time being...but leave them outnumbered and vulnerable.

She still is infinitely preferable to Carly "You Don't Deserve a Job" Fiorina, but then anyone would.

[Freddie Stubbs]

80. The Democratic Party is the centrist party

The 'base' is a lot more than just the loud rabble.