No, I will not channel my anger towards Republicans.

[t0dd]

last time I checked, Republicans are in the minority. They aren't responsible for this monstrosity of a Senate health "reform" bill. Our corporately owned Senators and President are. Sure, Republicans are obstructionists, but I think this partisan war that people here want to hold onto is unhelpful. You don't have to have a (R) by your name to be corrupt. If there are areas where Republicans and Democrats can unite for the greater good, I don't see a problem with that.

When Democrats are in power, when they have a super majority and draft legislation that caters to big corporations, when they reject progressive principles that should define our party, the distinction begins to fade and channeling anger towards Republicans is just senseless party line toeing. I won't do that. Our President has failed us on many issues, and he won't get a pass from me. He promised change and has not delivered. Can not all of us unite around that fact? Even the biggest cheerleaders here are becoming aware of this. Think about the backroom deal with Big Pharma. The silence on gay rights. The escalation of war. His indifference to meaningful health care reform. He contradicts everything we are supposed to stand for! It is blatantly clear his campaign slogan was nothing more than a political ploy, as Naomi Klein so eloquently put it.

Let's become aware of this, and let a true movement begin. So that we aren't fooled again! No, I will not channel my anger towards Republicans. I will channel it towards defeating obstacles to the change I really did believe in.

[leftstreet]

1. K&R

:applause:

[Sherman A1]

25. +1

[cliffordu]

2. White picket fences for everyone!! On the house!!!

[NYC_SKP]

5. fur reelz?

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

23. SERIES!!!!111 1 1 1 1 1 !!!!!!

Booya!!!

[timtom]

39. You two guys...(snicker)

You guys are such a caution.
Tee flippin' hee!

[cliffordu]

51. Im just a soul who's intentions are good

please don't let me be misunderstood....

[cornermouse]

22. For the unknowing.

White picket fences: Their idea using code to ridicule other posters. Real grown up thought processes. Yep.

[cliffordu]

24. "...Their.."

Nice.

[ima_sinnic]

35. what's wrong with "their" in that sentence?

I do see where one small preposition was accidentally omitted, but that did not detract from the message.

[cornermouse]

36. You guys are the ones using your group site to

openly make plans to ridicule other DU posters, not me.

[NYC_SKP]

45. Oh, no plans needed. We just watch as posters ridicule themselves. n/t

[gleaner]

88. How do you think you look ....

to posters watching you? A few one sentence posts do not create a brain trust do they?

[ooglymoogly]

112. What is ridiculous to you kids, is not so ridiculous

to others; Probably most others.

[KrR]

41. Sort of like the term "cheerleaders" n/t

[Individualist]

62. Juvenile comments like that are all they have.

[HuckleB]

57. +1

[slipslidingaway]

3. Agreed knr nt

[jonnyblitz]

4. great post!! K & R

:hi:

[griffi94]

6. there's no reason to channel anger at the gop

at the moment they're so disorganized they would fuck up a two car parade.
we got knee capped by our own team.

[pnwmom]

16. Lieberman isn't one of our team. n/t

[griffi94]

19. apparently obama isn't either

[SammyWinstonJack]

86. BAZINGGA!

:evilgrin::

[ThomCat]

27. Then why does our team keep giving him all the power, influence

and privileges as if he was a senior member of our team? :grr:

I agree that he isn't on our team. I just wish our team realized that and had enough sense to boot him to the curb. Publicly.

[Hannah Bell]

30. +1. big bad joe, he runs the show, his voice drowns

the pres & 59 in a single blow.

[TheBigotBasher]

72. And so does any of the other 59

simply because the Senate Leader is NOT up to his job. If Senators blackmail the Party they need to be punished not rewarded. Everthing from loss of positions, whip to Party funding. There is a Democratic Senate caucus to fight things out. No blackmailing on the floor.

[quakerboy]

79. That is Demonstrably not true

well, either that, or none of the other 59 actually wanted a public option.

[KrR]

42. Umm he has a vote thats why n/t

[ThomCat]

44. If Obama had supported his own party

and campaigned for the party's candidate, then Lieberman wouldn't have that vote right now.

Obama REFUSED to campaign for the Democrat, Ned Lamont, when Lieberman lost the primary. He refused to even be SEEN with the democrat.

Lieberman was already campaigning hard for McCain. Obama and the entire Democratic party should have backed Ned Lamont. We could have had a Democrat in that seat. :(

[KrR]

67. You have switched your argument but you are still wrong

Obama endorsed Lieberman in the Primary, Lamont in the General.

[ThomCat]

69. No, he didn't.

He never endorsed Lamont, supposedly out of "loyalty" to his former mentor, Lieberman.

You're rewriting history. The Lamont campaign tried repeatedly to get an endorsement, and even to get Obama to appear in public with Lamont. Obama refused. He did not want to get involved in in the election in CT.

As for switching my argument: What?

I said that Lieberman isn't part of our party. He should be booted to the curb. And He wouldn't even still be in office if Obama had supported Lamont.

Where, in any of those three points am I changing an argument? I'm making three separate but related points. It looks like you're posting a complaint just to complain. Grow up.

[defendandprotect]

100. And Lieberman still has the Chairmanship --- !!!!

[treestar]

73. that's really going out on a limb

Making Obama responsible for the results of the election in Connecticut.

Mas as well blame the voters of Connecticut as well.

[ThomCat]

76. Only a fool thinks that major endorsements don't swing elections.

:eyes:

[treestar]

77. People in Conn. were going to vote the way Obama told them to?

I don't know about Conn., but in my state we would not vote out a long term Senator just because a Presidential candidate thought we should.

It is really hard to unseat incumbents. Outsiders to the state don't have enough influence to convince people to vote for a newbie over an incumbent.

[PVnRT]

115. Not always - just ask Ed Muskie in 1972

[defendandprotect]

99. Good reminder . . . Obama and Hillary supported Lieberman ...!!!

[progressoid]

53. He ain't the only one pissing in our oatmeal.

[truedelphi]

21. P-U-L-E-A-S-E! Although I agree w/ yr sentiments, the "pre-exisiting conditions"

Part of this health care reform scam doesn't kick in for a while - none of us can afford being knee capped!!

[snot]

7. We can't rely on the "Dem" label, or on what they say; we can only rely on what they DO.

[ProSense]

8. "They aren't responsible for this monstrosity of a Senate health "reform" bill. " Yup

they get zero credit. They are losers and obstructionists.

[niyad]

9. k and r

and 3...2...1..

[girl gone mad]

10. Republicans are currently irrelevant.

They are the do-nothing party.

[pnwmom]

13. Not true. Their ability to vote in lock-step gives Joe Lieberman, who isn't a

Democrat, inordinate power. Also, conservative Dems from Red states.

[HuckleB]

58. Exactly.

How do repeated threads such as this ignore that reality?

[defendandprotect]

101. The Democrats have purposefully produced a garbage bill . . .

Putting Baucus in charge of reform, guaranteed DEFORM --

Obama and Baucus are both eyebrow high in corporate money --

pre-bribed and pre-owned -- !!!

Had Obama asked for single payer, public option, or Medicare for All the response

would have been immediate from public and Repugs would NOT have been able to vote

against it --

Only 20% of the public now identifies itself as "Republican" . . . !!!

This is corporate/fascism -- and that needs to be addressed.

[New Dawn]

11. K&R

[pnwmom]

12. The reason the Dems have the majority is BECAUSE we're a broad based party.

If we limit our positions to ones that make the progressive "base" happy, we'll soon be back to being a minority party.

[girl gone mad]

17. But if we follow the fringe "centrists" down the rabbit hole..

which is full of sell-outs to corporate bribery, we will lose the majority, who actually http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/19/AR2009101902451.html">support progressive ideas and http://www.galen.org/fileuploads/GalenPoll.pdf">overwhelmingly hate "centrist" plans.

[Hannah Bell]

31. we already are, apparently, since the only thing we can pass is corporate handouts,

much like the pubs.

seems both parties = "minority" parties, the parties of the top 1%.

[HuckleB]

61. So nothing else has happened this past year but corporate handouts?

Really?

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

102. Everything else has been eclipsed by war, war escalation and corporate handouts . . .

with a $800 BILLION Fannie/Fredie bail out being done in secret?

Where is the re-regulation of capitalism?

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime.

Where the overturning or reworking of the trade agreements destroying jobs here

in America?

Where is single payer, public option, or Medicare for all?

And why are Democrats like Pelosi working for the Vatican/RCC in helping them

influence American legislation on health care with Stupak Amendment?

Especially since Catholics support a government run health care plan and want

contraception and ABORTION covered in any government or private plan?????

[Hannah Bell]

106. oh, the lily ledbetter act!! whee!!

[juno jones]

14. K&R! n/t

[pnwmom]

15. We don't have a super-majority. Lieberman isn't a Democrat and he is

clearly thrilled to be able to vote against progressive Dems against health care.

[griffi94]

18. i hate to say this

but obama seems pretty thrilled about it too.
hell if i had it to do over again why not just write in lieberman as president if obama is going to let him highjack the whole agenda.
lieberman is one senator obama is president, i expected more of a fight on our behalf and less rolling over for the insurance lobby and big pharma.
and now obama is caught in lie about what he campaigned on. it's starting to feel like he views us with contempt telling a lie that could be checked 30 seconds later by anybody with a computer.

[Hannah Bell]

32. lieberman is super-duper-man! he bends the pres & congress to his will!

all do his bidding! none can withstand his mighty connecticut charisma!

it's christmas in connecticut!

[pnwmom]

50. He is. So is every other Senator when we are a single vote short of 60. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

105. cause there's no weapon against the mighty power of one!!!!

[KrR]

43. How would you have gotten Lieberman to vote for the PO?

Nelson? Landrieu? Whats the secret that you have but no one else can figure out? I guess we could take Coburns advice and pray something happens to Lieberman (Does CT have a Dem governor)... Otherwise plese tell me how to get their votes or shut up.

[TheBigotBasher]

66. Nelson and Landrieu

easy. Remove the whip, even on a temporary basis, if they continue to vote against the platform, which hurts the Democratic Party as a whole (never mind the people), Party funding.

Standing on a platform should mean something.

[KrR]

70. That wouldn't work, any other ideas? n/t

[TheBigotBasher]

78. Absolutely it would.

This pattern of behaviour is not one bill. It is consistent. That needs to be punished and not rewarded. It works for Rethugs and the dividing lines between them are even stronger.

[quakerboy]

80. That would work. Any other objections? n/t

[bkozumplik]

109. could take it farther than that but it would be ugly

close down military bases in states where senators dont cooperate.
remove highway funding.
get medieval with the budget.

But that might be too costly for both sides.

[pnwmom]

49. Of course Obama is going to publicly minimize his losses! What good would

it do for the Democrats and other progressives if he moans about how he has fallen short of his goals? The point is to rally the troops, not to dispirit them. There's always another battle ahead.

[defendandprotect]

103. OK . . . but that's an excuse to produce a garbage heath care bill????

Ever more so -- the object should be to produce a terrific single payer,

public option or Medicare for all bill - and force them to vote against it!!!

Repugs and Dems alike --

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LHB]

26. The Issue is Betrayal

Deliberate disruptors? That's a new, very fascistic sounding condemnation. I didn't vote for any Republicans in the last election, but I did vote for an entire slate of Democrats. Many of us feel betrayed by the people in whom we put our trust. You're right about many of us being "in the way": of any more lying, selling out, prevarication and corruption on the part of the Dems WE put in office. We're not shutting up, and we're not going away.

[TreasonousBastard]

38. You put four people in office at the Federal level, if...

you voted for your Senators in past years and everyone you voted for won. You did not vote for 98 Senators or the rest of the reps in your state, much less the other states.

So this whole "We put you in..." rings hollow. You can claim to be part of a movement that changed the power structure of Congress and elected a President, but that only goes so far.

(So does the curious mentions of fascism that I'm seeing all over the place lately.)

[IRemember]

48. ..

:popcorn:

[butterfly77]

63. There are a whole lot of people here..

who voted for RepubliCONS this time,last time and the times before those because the bluedogs are RepubliCONS...

[EFerrari]

28. Rahm, is that you?

[ThomCat]

29. With democrats controlling the white house, and both houses

but acting like a right-wing party, they sure as hell are the party.

The republicans are sitting back on the asses watching as our party self-destructs from the top. :(

And who the hell are you to decide that people in our party aren't allowed to be angry at the party after all the betrayals and all the movement to the right?

Obama has been handed one-in-a-lifetime opportunities and he has wasted them because he is too damned timid to challenge anyone on the right, or any corporation. Just because you're happy with the shit that has been happening, and you'll settle for a failure in the whitehouse as long as he looks good in photo ops, doesn't mean the rest of us should shut up and put up with it.

[leftofcool]

34. You sound like Dick Cheney.

[KharmaTrain]

33. They're In The Minority Now...

But most the damage we're addressing occured because they were in power. It's a combination of the "trickle down Raygunomics" of the 80s pushed along by the Armey/DeLay/Gingrich perversions of the Congress in the 90s and then the "unitary executive" days of the booosh regime. That's 30 years of non-stop assault on the middle class that caused many of the crisis this country faces. It led to the deregulation that turned into corporate gluttony that let the insurance companies play god regarding healthcare. It let the banks turn the markets into gambling casinos with little of their own money at risk. It put the almighty dollar ahead of simple human decency...creating a culture of greed and selfishness that is at the core of our partisan divides.

I will condemn Democrats...and have...when I feel it warranted, but the overall messes we're dealing with now are the product of rushpublicans. While they're in the minority now...and they have themselves to blame for that, the attitude of Democrats being the same is playing into the GOOP game plan. The quickest way for them to get back in power is to obstruct and hope people get frustrated with Democrats and blame them for nothing getting done. From many of the malcontents I see here, looks like that atrategy is working.

[rasputin1952]

37. Are you saying you would split the party, there-by ensuring defeat in the future?

That's what this reads like.

I don't see the D's breaking apart; I do see some weakness that can be overcome...and as for the GOP...they are doing a lot more than sitting on their asses. They are fully engaged in attempting to stop anything the D's come up with.

There is most certainly room for improvement...but I'm not going to toss my party aside over an issue that we have no idea how things will come out after conference.

[hulka38]

85. It will come out with no public option, that's pretty clear.

Are we surprised that the GOP obstructs 100% of the time?

[KrR]

40. This is meaningful Healthcare Reform n/t

[ShortnFiery]

46. KnR

:thumbsup:

[RetroLounge]

47. ...

:applause:

RL

[C_Lawyer09]

52. This discussion will continue ad nauseum

Until actual campaign finance reform and ballot access takes place, such which is not gutted by follow on legislation that flies under the radar. In the words of fired Arizona Cardinals Coach, Dennis Green, after a painful loss to the bears, "We knew who they were!" Well, I know who they are, and a D or an R does absolutely no differentiating. Fifty percent of departing Congressman become lobbyists, while maintaining all sorts of nifty perks! If anybody wants to read a good book, dealing with govt. for sale, read "Pigs at the Trough" by Arianna Huffington, or "Wrecking Crew" by Thomas Frank. Lastly, I say this. It is not possible to figure out whether the U.S. is center right, or center left, if 50% don't pay attention, or give a flying f*** one way or the other.

[jonnyblitz]

54. ...

:kick:

[Vidar]

55. K&R.

[maryf]

56. K&R nt

[liberal N proud]

59. Total obstruction does not bother you?

[KittyWampus]

60. who owns the media?

[hfojvt]

64. "he promised change and he has not delivered"

Why not? What has stopped him from delivering?

I would say it is Republicans and conservative Democrats that have stopped him and that therefore anger against him, or against the Democratic Party in general is definitely misplaced.

[Goldstein1984]

65. +1

The argument in this thread seems to be between party-oriented and issue-oriented people. Being issue-oriented myself, I can't objectively respond without appearing biased.

HCR, when added to all the other issues (USA Patriot, Bush/Cheney crimes against humanity, climate change, Afghanistan, GLBT rights), is a disappointment.

Good post that stimulated some good discussion. Thank you.

BTW, my recs are distributed without regard to whether I agree with the OP, but whether or not it was a contribution to discussion, or could have been.

G1984

[bvar22]

68. I EXPECT Republicans to act like Republicans.

I KNOW they don't represent me.
I don't expect them to.
I'm NOT mad when a dog acts like a dog.

But when Democrats act like Republicans and sell out the Working Class to Corporate interests, I'm FURIOUS.
AND, the sell outs WILL hear from me!

[RagAss]

71. We get fucked when we lose...we get fucked when we win....I quit.

[treestar]

74. They may not always be a minority

Acting as if they are defeated and dead and gone is pretty naive, IMO. They are tenacious rats. They will use everything they can to get that power back. Your post assumes they are gone and don't exist any more.

[spicypickle]

75. Agreed

This was no mistake or compromise. The process of getting here was probably simply manipulated to make it look that way. I believe that this is (more or less) what it was meant to be from the beginning and we have been lied to because they knew how unpopular it would be even with their base. I think if we keep accepting these piss poor excuses, we will keep getting screwed and they will keep lying to us.

[hulka38]

81. Thank you, thank you, tank you tOdd for this much needed thread.

Well delivered and timely.

[Laelth]

82. k&r n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[knixphan]

83. I'm throwing mine into a progressive primary challenger.

[SammyWinstonJack]

84. knr

:applause:

[whiskeypapa1]

87. great post

I think you're on to something. this is my first post here. Just signed up recently. I've been browsing through this site and free republic for the past 6 or 7 years, just trying to see what everyone thinks about things on both sides. this posting really caught my eye and I decided to respond to it. never responded to anything on the other site.
As I see it, we all have major problems with what's happening in Washington. rather than fighting between the 2 major parties at our level, we should unite and send a strong message. It doesn't seem to matter who's in charge, ultimately we - the people - never seem to get what we expect with the votes we cast.
The question is...how do we fix it? do we vote against all incumbents? march on Washington? How do we get our voices heard?
any suggestions?

[Dragonfli]

113. At this point the only way our voices will be heard over the roar of legal bribery is

possibly large scale general strikes, It is how the french citizens and others in the world keep their politicians in line. When governments elsewhere forget who they work for the people bring the country to a halt until their voices are heard.

A problem we have here is that the people are afraid of the government when the government should be afraid of the people. If they think the common citizens aren't the ones doing 99.9 per cent of the work then let them see how their billionaire friends that take the bulk of the wealth created by all our work keep everything going without us.

They can drive the trucks, build the roads and buildings, raise the crops, run the registers, cook the food, create something or fix something, .. ANYTHING.. (they are actually, for the most part, incapable of doing much of anything other than buy politicians and cash checks).

The truth is that the very same people that appear to own our representatives (making them not representative of us at all) offer little to nothing to our survival or our commonwealth and yet reap almost all the rewards simply because of corruption. We could stop the theft if only we the common people would learn the power of showing who actually makes everything by stopping in solidarity - bringing the nation to a halt by sitting out that day, or week, or month - doing nothing (just like the wealthiest do for a living).

General strikes by the common people in both parties.

[timeforpeace]

89. Excellent post. You've scaring to death those whose job it is to post here and drive donations.

[gleaner]

90. Excellent post!

I saw an article on MSN late last night where Obama was saying he would not accept any responsibility for the actions attributed to him. Typical. It is so much easier to blame everyone else to avoid looking at yourself good and hard. He is responsible and so are the Democrats and Republicans in Congress who walked in lock step with him. I intend to hold them all responsible.

The only thing you missed and that was probably because it slipped out so quietly that it was hidden under the health care noise was the fact that after "passionate appeals" by the Obama administration, the Supreme Court handed down a decision which makes torture an "acceptable" method of interrogation and allows the President or his designated represent ives to name an individual as an "enemy combatant." Said enemy combatant can then be held without benefit of counsel or trial for an indefinite period of time. There was nothing in the decision liming enemy combatant status to people from foreign countries. As the person who wrote the article which was quoted here said, "enemy combatants cease to be human." That means that they cease to have human rights and if held long enough they cease to exist. It also keeps Bush administration officials who practiced torture and rendition from being tried as war criminals or sued in a civil court. It gives Obama the legal status that he needed to follow all of the Bush practices already in place and to add a few of his own.

This is the man who won't take any responsibility for his indifference to the people who elected him? Now he can disappear virtually anyone he wants? Seems so. This might give dissent a whole new thrill.

K&R for your post. It needs to be read by everyone.

[pleah]

91. K&R

[theFrankFactor]

92. Treat Congressional Democrats Like They're on The Short Bus?

Bullshit! Congressional Democrats aren't ineffectual because they're just too dog gone kind, considerate, soft spoken and deliberate. They're owned! The higher you go the more owned they are. This POS is what they wanted to accomplish. A little dog and pony show about how they tried soooo hard for us but the big bad Republicans wouldn't let them give us what we so clearly wanted.

Washington Generals I tell ya!

Corporations piss in our faces and we blame the kindness of the Democrat spirit, centrism and practicality.

The good news? More and more, people who believe this charade are looking like morons to the sober and awake.

It's Not the Republicans Fault Cong. Democrats Are Bought & Paid For
http://thefrankfactorspace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/its-not-the-republicans-fault

[LostInAnomie]

93. It's the 40 Republican Senators that force us to deal with the Liebermans and Nelsons of the world.

They are the pieces of shit that abuse the filibuster. They are the ones that refuse to reason. They are the ones that march in lock step and make any progress impossible. Slice it any way you like, they are the ones that make it possible for Lieberman, Nelson, etc., to fuck over the country. Without them filibustering it would have been possible to get the PO because all we would have needed was 51.

[blackbear79]

94. Obama is the problem

This is what he said about the health care bill today...

"I'm getting 95 percent of what I want," Obama said. "Now, I might not be getting 95 percent of what some other folks want."

This is about him and claiming victory , not us getting any help. I'm just sick over this.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hekate]

107. Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

:hi:

[Dragonfli]

114. people are implying that you are an infiltrator from an extreme right wing site. I

don't know what evidence they have as they haven't offered any. Their over inflated subjective certitude that they know what and who you are while making veiled threats aside, your post is valid. He got 95% of what he wants and does not appear concerned at all that the he is not getting 95% of what the citizens want. He stated it rather plainly.

A large majority of the Independents and Democrats that voted for him want the option of buying into a public option similar to medicare, this is a plain fact demonstrated in multiple polls. I don't know how popular the mandate and accompanying poor tax is as I have not seen any polls on it, but I know that I picked him over Hillary when it was down to the final two because she proposed a mandate and he did not.

The "politician" ran on no mandates and a public option but the "President" is claiming victory after a clear bait and switch that polls show most of us don't want.

Your post is accurate and your detractors offer nothing to the contrary choosing instead to accuse you publicly without proof of being a right wing infiltrator.

Rahm Emanuel is a right wing infiltrator in my opinion. I have no opinion about you having only read this one post.

Welcome to DU such as it is :hi:

[FarLeftFist]

95. Dude, it's only been 11 months.

[defendandprotect]

97. ONLY Democrats and their corporate owners are preventing REAL ....

health care reform -- which would take insurance companies and "for profit"

health care providers -- and pharma -- out of consideration.

This is wealth care for the benefit of corporations -- not health care!

Thank you for this OP -- terrific!!!

If this garbage legislation had been offered by Repugs we'd be ROFL -- !!!

Liberals and progressives have to come together as a new voting bloc and begin

to discussion possibilities and a Plan B!!

[Libertas1776]

98. K&R!

[seeinfweggos]

104. do let us know how that works out - your "true movement"

[phasma ex machina]

108. This thread so funny it belong in forum. nt

[Andronex]

110. "No, I will not channel my anger towards Republicans."

You are obliged to take part in the hate, if everyone thought like you the two corporate party system could not survive, this is subversion.

[pundaint]

111. It's the incumbents

The Republicans are out to sabotage America for 2-4 years just to try to make the Democrats and Obama look bad. The Democrats are letting them do it. A pox on all of them. We need to replace the Democrats with effective democratic Democrats, and we need to replace the Republicans with Democrats.

[jonnyblitz]

116. ....

:kick: