Grover Norquist: Estate Tax a Holocaust for the Rich

[TomCADem]

I am disheartened by the number of folks making positive posts regarding Grover Norquist on what I thought is a liberal board. Grover Norquist is one the original and most effective architects of defund the left campaigns in order to support Grover's corporate clientele. If Grover calls you up, and wants to support your cause, run away and take a momemnt to ask why. Grover is good at what he does, and that is sowing discord in the left. Grover Norquist in his own words:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1008-07.htm

Terry Gross: Right. OK. So when you cross that, maybe you're making, like, $20,000 or something. That's not going to help you with the estate tax. I mean, you're talking about $2 million. That's a line people don't cross a lot. That's -- I don't think that's ...

Grover Norquist: Yeah, the good news about the move to abolish the death tax, the tax where they come and look at how much money you've got when you die, how much gold is in your teeth and they want half of it, is that -- you're right, there's an exemption for -- I don't know -- maybe a million dollars now, and it's scheduled to go up a little bit. However, 70 percent of the American people want to abolish that tax. Congress, the House and Senate, have three times voted to abolish it. The president supports abolishing it, so that tax is going to be abolished. I think it speaks very much to the health of the nation that 70-plus percent of Americans want to abolish the death tax, because they see it as fundamentally unjust. The argument that some who played at the politics of hate and envy and class division will say, 'Yes, well, that's only 2 percent,' or as people get richer 5 percent in the near future of Americans likely to have to pay that tax.

I mean, that's the morality of the Holocaust. 'Well, it's only a small percentage,' you know. 'I mean, it's not you, it's somebody else.'

And this country, people who may not make earning a lot of money the centerpiece of their lives, they may have other things to focus on, they just say it's not just. If you've paid taxes on your income once, the government should leave you alone. Shouldn't come back and try and tax you again.

Terry Gross: Excuse me. Excuse me one second. Did you just ...

Grover Norquist: Yeah?

Terry Gross: � compare the estate tax with the Holocaust?

Grover Norquist: No, the morality that says it's OK to do something to do a group because they're a small percentage of the population is the morality that says that the Holocaust is OK because they didn't target everybody, just a small percentage. What are you worried about? It's not you. It's not you. It's them. And arguing that it's OK to loot some group because it's them, or kill some group because it's them and because it's a small number, that has no place in a democratic society that treats people equally. The government's going to do something to or for us, it should treat us all equally. �"

Terry Gross: So you see taxes as being the way they are now terrible discrimination against the wealthy comparable to the kind of discrimination of, say, the Holocaust?

Grover Norquist: Well, what you pick -- you can use different rhetoric or different points for different purposes, and I would argue that those who say, 'Don't let this bother you; I'm only doing it' -- I, the government. The government is only doing it to a small percentage of the population. That is very wrong. And it's immoral. They should treat everybody the same. They shouldn't be shooting anyone, and they shouldn't be taking half of anybody's income or wealth when they die."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Grover Norquist is a very bad man.

It's disgusting to see anybody on DU give that rat-bastard the slightest credibility.

[Ken Burch]

7. Calling Grover Norquist a "rat-bastard" is a disgusting insult

to rats and bastards.

And Sesame Street ought to sue him for copyright violation for besmirching the name of one of the friendliest Muppets:

[YOY]

21. Hello Everybodee!!!

n/t

[mickey dee]

20. Norquist

He still runs his K street anarchist American Taxpayer's Americans For Tax Reform, from which he helped the Bush/Cheney administration promote right wing agenda of all various sorts who came to his meetings...he wants to bankrupt the Treasury with massive red ink, to bring down our Federal government, by bankrupting it. Never mind this will collapse the entire world economy, as the GOPers almost did in September 2008, after they had doubled the national debt.

I have a much broader question I would like to have answered:

Have we forgotten the defacto GOP signing statements cherry-picking to nullify Congress’ legislation sent for our Prez to sign? If neocons and theocons get back in, wont they bring this back, along with more court packing,with blocking EPA, Treasury, Wall St and home lending oversight,also EPA, Consumer Protection Agency (lead toys), shipping more jobs overseas, bringing in more immigrants for cheapest labor, boosting the Tyranny, no Patriot Act with more loss of civil liberties, more database collection on all Americans with Total Intelligence Awareness, complete deregulation of anything and everything, increased strip mining, leeching of poisonous deposits into water supplies and ground water, stripping FDR’s economic protections put in place, which worked 50 years so well we all took it for granted we couldnt have our economic system fail again like it did in Sept 2008, ever-greater polarization of our national electorate almost by grand design, down to the level of individual districts, to mass-manipulate and cause internal ideological warfare within our citizenry, also by mass proliferation of propaganda and misinformation using Madison Ave advertising techniques (such as creating political ads as news article plants specifically crafted for news show insertion), six massive consecutive tax cuts while at the same time starting two wars now both lasting longer than WW2, adding to the national debt, now past 12.2 trillion (with 2009 red-ink spending as pump-priming was the only way to keep us from Great Depression 2, even though it added to the total national debt, then blaming it on the Dems, even though red ink spending doubled from 2001 to 2009, all used to pay for two wars, one of which was supposed to get Iraqi oil to pay for it all, but never did. Now China owns us lock, stock, and we are now the greatest debtor nation. China shut up our ambassadors who complained about China’s war exercizes near Taiwan, by threatening to flood the world market with US IOUs, causing hyper-inflation and our currency to crash. All of this and more under Bush/Cheney, how much worse in 2012, if God forbid, they get back in, yet the Tea Baggers are more fringers than even the Congressional GOPers. Who knows which groups are which? And why did the Texas GOP change their party platform in 2008 from their real objectives they put in their 2004 platform? What happens if we get these whack jobs in power in 2012, imagine Palin with her finger on the nukes button! WTF! They got away with way worse than Nixon ever did with Watergate, and NOONE HAS YET TO INVESTIGATE ANY OF IT, INCLUDING LIBBY, Blackwater, CIA prisons, mass renditions to black sites, Cheney’s assassination program, every phone, internet and email, bank accounts, US mail, all being subject to massive intrusion with National Security Letters, the GOP fix of the voting machines in the 2000 and 2004 elections, the stop of the vote count in Florida by Harris in 2000 when later the actual count showed Gore won, all the contaminated food coming into the US, the lack of proper FDA regulation with new drugs put on the market too soon, NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN INVESTIGATED AS IN WATERGATE, AND MORE OF IT WILL RECUR COME 2012 IF THEY GET BACK IN POWER, SO WHAT MAKES ANY OF THIS OK? AND IS ANYBODY LISTENING?…I wonder, not optimistically, unfortunately. Most Americans have a short 30 sec TV ad attention span, and do not even remember or even realize all this is now defacto unchallenged precedents the fringers can repeat at will. And they dont own Jesus, but youd never know it, listening to all of them. But truely, God help us all. Our Dems have let them delay so much they will win with their stall tactics, as the Dems look placid, ineffective, impotent, and get painted as “LIBERAL,” as if this were cancer, when in fact, the pot is calling the kettle black.

[hyphenate]

31. Punctuation and paragraphs would make your

post legible. As it is right now, it's rather impossible to decipher. :)

[SharonAnn]

32. Grover hides the point that many large estates contain untaxed money.

The estate consists of things that have grown in value over the years but not been taxed.

If they're given to the heirs tax-free, their basis cost is adjusted to the value at the time they are transferred.

It's like give a "Never Pay Taxes" card to wealthy families.

Seriously, you think the Wal-Mart family is so wealthy from the estate Sam Walton created by saving a little of his earned income after he paid taxes on it? No, it consists mainly of Wal-Mart stock which has risen greatly in price and tax was never paid on the increase in value.

Taxes are usually assessed at the point of transfer: When wages are paid, when stocks and bonds are sold, when houses are sold, when purchases are made, when estates are passed on. The exceptions are things like property taxes.

[blondeatlast]

2. Maybe Hamsher did us a backhanded favor--exposing Norquistm to the light of day.

He's lurked in the shadows far too long and anyone who defends him can't possiobly know his history.

[tonysam]

3. He's the absolute worst.

The man has no redeeming value at all. His politics stink to high heaven, but unfortunately they have been very popular in GOP circles.

His table manners are infamously bad besides.

[laughingliberal]

4. I would hardly call the posts positive about Norquist

He's an obnoxious little supply sider. But shall we all start bashing the ACLU because he supported them in their fight against the violations of the FISA laws?

[KittyWampus]

9. He is much much more than "an obnoxious little supply sider". He organized the near destruction

of our Democracy.

He is Ground Zero LITERALLY.

[laughingliberal]

37. Yes, he's evil so we should have opposed him when he said this;

Grover Norquist, a principal organizer of the conservative movement who is close to the Bush White House and usually supports its policies, says, "If you interpret the Constitution's saying that the president is commander in chief to mean that the president can do anything he wants and can ignore the laws you don't have a constitution: you have a king." He adds, "They're not trying to change the law; they're saying that they're above the law and in the case of the NSA wiretaps they break it." A few members of Congress recognize the implications of what Bush is doing and are willing to speak openly about it. Dianne Feinstein, Democratic senator from California, talks of a "very broad effort" being made "to increase the power of the executive." Chuck Hagel, Republican senator from Nebraska, ..<snip>

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19092

I'm not defending the man but if we're going to decide that anything he says is wrong then we should have supported Bush in evading the FISA laws. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Added on edit: Dianne Feinstein held the same position as Grover Norquist on FISA!!!!! Oh noes!!! She's whacked....Oh....wait...that was the same thing we believed.....WE agreed with Grover Norquist...I guess off with our heads, too.

[StarfarerBill]

5. Perhaps Grover was behind the theft of the Auschwitz "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign,

seeing how he gets off on the Holocaust and all.

Asshole...

[dysfunctional press]

6. so, wait...is he saying that the estate tax is a good thing or a bad thing...?

:shrug:

a subject line like that could be interpreted either way.

[jgraz]

8. Rick Warren: Gay Marriage is the Equivalent of Incest and Pedophilia

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/12/18/rick-warren-compares-gay-marriage-to-incest-pedophila

[TomCADem]

11. Once again, another post that tries to defend Grover Norquist by...

...trying to draw attention from him. In one post on Grover, someone brought up Rahm Emanuel. Another person raised Timothy Geithner. Now, someone once again hijacks a thread to bash on Rick Warren. Did I mention Rick Warren? Am I defending Rick Warren in this thread? Are folks really arguing that Grover is not that bad? Again, it is just odd the degree to which DUers are rallying to the defense of Norquist. Is this really a liberal board? Grover does not merely hold conservative views. His job is to undermine the left for a profit.

[jgraz]

12. What the fuck do you think this whole Grover Norquist/Jane Hamsher bullshit is all about?

It's an attempt to distract us from Obama's failure on Healthcare Reform by attacking a solid progressive who just happens to disagree with the President. This whole discussion is one giant sideshow, started because Obama supporters know they can't deal with a straight-up debate on his role in this POS healthcare bill.

[TomCADem]

15. Once again, I did not mention Jane in this thread...

If she is citing Grover Norquist, then she is obviously mistaken. But those folks who are defending Grover, should know better. This is why my post is directed right at Grover. His entire purpose is to systematically sow discord among liberals. Long before Rush Limbaugh started cheerleading PUMAs, Grover was soliciting corporations by bring grass roots support to corporate causes.

[jgraz]

16. So you just *suddenly* felt an urge to dredge up a 6-year-old interview of Grover Norquist

Riiight. Tell me another one. :eyes:

[TomCADem]

17. Yes, In Response To The Numerous Posts Citing Him

If Jane cited him. She screwed up. Accept it, then move on. Don't defend her reference to Grover, but also no need to dwell on it.
Just because you may agree with Jane on her views regarding HCR does not mean you need to defend Grover Norquist. I hope "liberals" understand that. There is no need to defend Grover Norquist. Worse, defending Grover Norquist undermines your argument.

[jgraz]

18. Uh huh.

You've done your diversionary duty for tonight. Now run along, Uncle Rahm has a cookie for you.

[dave29]

25. Grover Norquist: "We don't have annual parades for gun owners..

"we don't have annual parades for gun owners so everyone can appreciate that gun ownership is an alternative lifestyle and look at how great we are." He also allegedly quipped that liberals "don't want you" -- meaning the mostly male audience -- "to date girls." Hostile references to gays were reportedly uttered at the same event by conservative pollster Kellyanne Conway and a commentator named Debbie Schlussel, who derided lesbian talk-show host Rosie O'Donnell, an outspoken NRA critic, as a "freak."

Norquist denies making the statements attributed to him: "I recognize each as a bizarre paraphrase of something yanked out of context. The quotes are not accurate and the implication is not accurate. I did not make any anti-gay remarks." He went on to say, "I am disappointed that the author missed the point of my comments -- that all members of the leave-us-alone coalition share a common wish to be left alone by the government. That certainly includes gun owners, taxpayers, property owners, home-schoolers, people of faith and libertarian gays. Left-wing gays who want the state to tell others who they can hire, et cetera, are more comfortable in the statist party."

Among his various pet projects is the Islamic Institute, a Washington group that propagandizes Muslims for the GOP, and which the Protestant Norquist serves as both lobbyist and founding director. On its Web site, the Islamic Institute quite forthrightly declares an anti-gay position as the only political outlook compatible with its members' faith. "Since Islam condemns any practice that contradicts the principles that ensure a prosperous, happy family and community, it requires a high level of moral discipline," the Web site explains. "In this regard, homosexuality, or any other form of sexual behavior that does not support the traditional family unit, is forbidden."

Norquist has also worked closely for many years with the Christian Coalition, which never hesitates to manipulate and exploit the anti-gay prejudices of its voting base.

Several years ago, for example, Norquist appeared in a hysterical anti-gay video produced by Jeremiah Films -- makers of the notorious "Clinton Chronicles" videos -- titled "Gay Rights, Special Rights: Inside the Homosexual Agenda." Warning that gays are "targeting our youth by preying on their vulnerability" and "redefining the family to include all forms of sexual preference and perversion," the Jeremiah video predicted that under gay rights legislation, "your church, business and school will be forced to employ homosexuals, bisexuals, transgenders, or those who practice pedophilia."

http://archive.salon.com/news/col/cona/2002/05/13/gays/

[jgraz]

26. Obama Supporters: Pay No Attention to that Bill Behind the Curtain

Look over here! Look over here!!

[dave29]

27. Somehow I knew you would shrug it off it came from Norquist.

Good luck to you convincing people working with the likes of Norquist is fine and dandy.

[jgraz]

33. No, look! Shiney!! SHIIIINEY!

:rofl:

[dave29]

35. Impressive arguments!

It's no wonder you converted your brother from teabaggery! Maybe you'll get Norquist next!!

[napi21]

10. You have no idea how many people don't know that an estate

is only taxed on the amount OVER $1.5 million & soon to go up to #2+ million! I couldn't believe it when while talking to my cousin in Pgh. she was complaining about the estate tax and that although they are now living in Section 8 housing, they could inherit $200,000. I aske her if she was aware that Fed. estate tax only kinks in after the first $1.5 million. She was shocked! Didn't know that! She's an avid listener to politics. Listens to Keith & Rachel all the time, and reads the daily paper more thoroughly than I do. If she didn't know, how many others don't know that either????

[Lasher]

14. The exemption is $3.5M this year

Twice that for couples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States#Exemptions_and_tax_rates

[napi21]

24. But doesn't it revert back to $1.5 million for 2010 & then go up to $2 mill+ in 2011?

I know I read something like that the other day and that the Pubs were bitching again because they still want to eliminate it all together.

[Lasher]

34. The Estate Tax is totally repealed next year.

And the following year, in 2011, it reverts to $1M (twice that for couples).

I know the Pubs want it all permanently eliminated. And no wonder, they favor the wealthiest of us all. I would love to see Congressional Democrats block all Republican attempts to make any changes to the Estate Tax as it will stand in 2011. But I predict they will kiss GOP asses on this.

[napi21]

41. I don't think so. I think the Dems will stand firm on this one.

IF they have a brain, and I know they all do (just don't use it sometimes) they will speak LOUD & CLEAR that this tax will be paid by less than 1% of the total population! Ayone with a very large estate has already put lots of money in trusts and other tax sheltered vehicles to keep them from paying very much IF anything at all!

[Lasher]

43. I hope you are right.

We shall see.

[ellie]

13. I hate this fucker with

the red-hot intensity of a thousand suns. He is bad, bad news.

[saltpoint]

19. Norquist is vile.

A certain "progressive" blogger ought to have more seriously considered her apparent alliance with him.

[RainDog]

22. Grover Norquist is no friend of progressives or liberals or the U.S., really.

bipartisanship is date rape? was that one of his or someone else's remarks?

he wants govt small enough to drown in a bathtub? ala Katrina.

[Odin2005]

23. I wish that were true.

[JCMach1]

28. Norquist is one of the original POS Conservobots...

[hyphenate]

29. Grover Norquist was once titled

the most evil right winger--ever. I think that title still stands, though I would now include others in a category with him, like Rove, Cheney, Robertson, Dobson, etc. If they're from the right wing, and they hold power of any kind, they're pretty much evil, cruel and criminal.

[Zoeisright]

30. Grover Norquist is a douche-bag.

And he's a waste of water and oxygen.

[mcablue]

36. did Hamsher deny that Norquist is an ultra-right winger? No, she didn't

But in this particular case, they seek to investigate Rahm Emanuel's dubious past. Which has nothing to do with estate taxes.

[eppur_se_muova]

38. He says that like it would be a bad thing ... nt

[Romulox]

39. Remember when "progressives" were attempting to permanently slash the estate tax?

Search DU. It was last weak or the one prior. Most DUers were cheering. :eyes:

[laughingliberal]

40. Here's what Grover Norquist said about Bush' violation of FISA laws:

Grover Norquist, a principal organizer of the conservative movement who is close to the Bush White House and usually supports its policies, says, "If you interpret the Constitution's saying that the president is commander in chief to mean that the president can do anything he wants and can ignore the laws you don't have a constitution: you have a king." He adds, "They're not trying to change the law; they're saying that they're above the law and in the case of the NSA wiretaps they break it." A few members of Congress recognize the implications of what Bush is doing and are willing to speak openly about it. Dianne Feinstein, Democratic senator from California, talks of a "very broad effort" being made "to increase the power of the executive."



http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19092


Damn!!! Looks like a lot of DUers agreed with him. We're all whack jobs.

[mcablue]

42. Grover was right on FISA, but you must pretend that he was wrong

Because wingnuts are to be contradicted 100% of the time even when they're right.

Or something.

[laughingliberal]

44. Damn it! Now I'm going to have to find some way to tell people I did not oppose Bush' violation of

the FISA laws...hope there's not any video of me opposing it...wait! that would mean I agreed with Bush! Now what???