All the naysayers about the health care bill that just passed

[shraby]

should remember one thing. If it hadn't passed, there would be no merging with the better bill from the House. There would be no health care changes whatsoever. All would be done for who knows how long.
Now with the camel's nose under the tent, the whole camel has a chance to mosey on in until the whole body is in out of the weather.

[FreakinDJ]

1. Enough "Poison Pills" in that bill to destroy the Dems in 2010/2012

hope they can fix the bill because there is no way I can defend anyone who passes what they have now

[ixion]

2. and there would be no mandated consumerism, no newly-created quasi, for-profit federal agencies

with the power of the IRS to enforce.

I'm sorry, but whatever 'good' may come of this, which frankly remains to be seen, I believe it pales in comparison to the precedent of mandating the purchase of an over-priced, crappy pseudo-product from a for-profit corporation as a requisite to legal citizenship.

That is a dangerous precedent along the same lines as the unPATRIOTic Act. We will regret it in the long run, in my opinion.

[gratuitous]

3. We shall see

I remember how NAFTA was gonna be all fixed with "side agreements" on labor and environmental issues. Still waiting for those pots of gold to materialize at the end of the rainbow. Meanwhile, polluters continue to operate with abandon, poisoning communities, and employer continue to abuse their workers, knowing that if one of them falls sick or dies another will be there to plug into the lethal machinery.

[lib2DaBone]

15. Good point. Chinese drywall, lead paint in toys..

poison pet food, anti-freeze in toothpaste.

All the great things about NAFTA that were going to be fixed...ironed out.. a few small details. That was some 16 years ago.

NAFTA gave us the SHAFTA. That giant sucking sound was our future... which has gone down the toilet.

And America STILL doesn't get it.. (sigh...)

[laughingliberal]

16. Hello? I know! Can people NOT learn from history? Even very recent history?

How many times do people have to swallow down these placating promises before they wake up? And the scary part is we're the smarter of the 2 parties. We shake our heads and wonder how working, middle class, and poor Republicans are persuaded to vote against their own self interests. A great many Democrats seem to be just as suicidal.

[Tim01]

20. "we're the smarter of the 2 parties."

That's my favorite part. "OUR leaders will be fabulous, because we are so much smarter than stupid mean redneck republicans."
Democrats' arrogance makes them easily fooled.

[Jamastiene]

4. Let's just hope the camel is potty trained. n/t

[Puglover]

5. What finally swayed me was the likely

scenario of losing seats in 2010. And then the window is closed, for God knows how long. Here's hoping for some good dustups in conference!

[kdmorris]

6. Historically speaking, the "merging"

becomes "take the parts that people will vote for". So, in order to get the Senate for vote Yea, we will end up with a bill that is basically the Senate's version.

This is a complete travesty. I would RATHER have no bill (and this is coming from a Diabetic mother of three grown children who have NO health insurance and need it, so don't throw the "if you only knew how others suffered..." at me. I KNOW how others suffer and in my opinion, this will cause MORE people to suffer, by forcing them to buy insurance that they CANNOT AFFORD TO USE. Mandating without price controls on the health insurance companies is just basically a give away of money to them, which we will all be forced to do because we might be fined or taxed otherwise.

[laughingliberal]

18. I'm with you. We have no insurance and I have a husband in poor health

Mine's not the best, either. But this is an unmitigated disaster being foisted on the part of our population which can not sustain any more hits. The far reaching effects of this are catastrophic.

[Tim01]

7. I would prefer no new bill at all. nt

[HughMoran]

8. My family thanks you

not.

[cliffordu]

9. My wife does too. Not.

[Tim01]

17. Poor people could have bought insurance anytime, with money they don't have.

Now they will be FORCED to buy insurance with money they don't have. This is a wet dream come true for the insurance companies.
I would like to see a bill where poor people get the health care they can't afford. That would be like the opposite of this bill.

[HughMoran]

21. subsidies, exchanges. small business can now get AFFORDABLE coverage

Do you know how much a family plan is where I work (before subsidy by company)?

$36,000!

You think this country can succeed with rates like this???

[Tim01]

22. The companies are running this show.

I do not believe for a second they are going to allow anything that will cut into their own profits, or the income of the very rich, no matter how their employees sell it to us.
The best case will be them giving with one hand and stealing with the other. And then telling us how much they have helped us.

[HughMoran]

25. They made money on me when my rate was $10,800

I pay the full rate now with Cobra and it's around $900/month for the SAME COVERAGE from the SAME COMPANY (BCBS).

$36,000 - $10,800 = $25,200 difference for same coverage but in a smaller pool. THIS is why the exchanges are important.

How can you say that exchanges that will give us 'big company' rates won't save us money? If they are making money at $10,800, then $36,000 is pure ass-rape. The controls in the current bill won't allow this ass-raping.

[Ikonoklast]

13. My son thanks you for your selfishness.

He would prefer people put others before themselves for a change.

This bill just may keep him alive.

[nightrain]

10. better bill?? oh the one that forces middle income people to pay

5K/year plus deductibles and copays that they couldn't afford before "reform"???

Has your income increased enough to afford an extra 5-10K? No, I doubt it. More extortion from corporations.

[MercutioATC]

11. Yeah, they'd have been forced to actually write decent legislation.

That would have sucked.

:eyes:

[WeDidIt]

12. And from this point forward, Health Care changes will happen in the budget. n/t

[laughingliberal]

19. Yes, as premiums continue to rise the budget will need to include more and more

money to subsidize the health insurance industry and more cuts to Medicare. I, also, believe that further enshrining the for-profit industry gets us a step closer to privatizing Medicare. We aren't moving toward more people getting Medicare. We're moving towards destroying it.

[notesdev]

14. Clue train coming through

When the best its supporters can say is that "it's flawed, but we can fix it", and you can't recall any time in the past when such flaws have ever been fixed (how about that tax code?), it's a steaming pile of feces that ought to be rejected out of hand.

[The Gunslinger]

23. Better nothing than giving the coountry to the for profit health insurance industry

Someone please tell me how are we ever going to have single payer or a true public option now that the wealthcare industry has just been give way more power than they had before. They already had the power to strike it down before this crap bill.

[Javaman]

24. Fail. you don't have any more insight into the future than anyone else.

right now, at this moment, the bill is colossal pile of horse shit.

perhaps, if the house has any guts, they can turn the bill into dog shit.

[madokie]

26. I'm with you shraby

this place has gone nutso over this. This hell it seems over any little thing so many are ready to throw their hands up and call it quits, all I can say to that is goodby and good riddence to them. I like my President just fine

[niceypoo]

27. The senate bill was supposed to fix the bitter pill from the house

The bitter pill we swallowed from the house is now the better bill. What is wrong with this picture?

[Vinca]

28. Keep in mind there was always the option to ram Medicare For All

through via reconciliation. The simplest solution to the entire health care mess was the first to be thrown overboard. I'm afraid our government is bought and paid for.

[earth mom]

29. Get a fucking clue. What's in it for those corporate ass kissers to fix it later?

Absolutely nothing!

You're totally fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Face it-WE ARE ALL SCREWED.

Nice Merry Christmas gift they're giving us too-NOT!!!!!!!!!! :puke: