There are those celebrating what they call a victory over the left wing of the democratic party

[Lerkfish]

one wonders why someone would consider the left an enemy within the democratic party?

think about it.

[donco6]

1. I'm surprised they'd put their turkey legs down long enough.

I guess the desire to post schadenfreude is just too overwhelming.

[AVID]

2. where are these celebrations? Please provide (non-DU) links.

DU is an abyss on this issue.

[Lerkfish]

8. sure.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/23/obama.interview/index.html

Obama rejected criticism from some liberals that a final bill would be too watered down, saying in the PBS interview that the bill delivered most of the benefits he listed when the debate began back in January.
"This notion that somehow this health care bill that's emerging should be grudgingly accepted by Democrats as half a loaf" is wrong, Obama said. "This is 95 percent of the loaf."

[Usrename]

62. How is this statement a declaration of victory over the left?

It sounds more like a declaration of victory over the right to me. He seems to be saying that people shouldn't view this so much as a defeat, one where too much has been compromised to the status quo, instead they should view this as real change. I don't really see where he says anything about defeating the left, or anything even close to that idea.

[Orrex]

3. I can't decide whether I should be happier about the defeat of the Left (of which I'm a part)

or the fact that 30,000,000 people will--for the first time--have access to healthcare where they didn't before.

Gosh. Decisions, decisions.

[wolfgangmo]

20. smoke and mirrors

Correction to your post.

That should be - "30 million people will... have THE ILLUSION of health care where they didn't before."




edit for typo

[Orrex]

22. Are you one of those 30 million?

[bvar22]

33. I am....and the previous poster is essentially correct.

We won't have "Access to Health Care".

What we WILL have is access (actually be forced to BUY) is junk Health Insurance with such a high deductible that we won't be able to afford to actually use it.
We will also qualify for a "subsidy" (your tax money) which we will be required to hand over directly to a For Profit Health Insurance Corporation for a "product" we won't be able to use.

Some scam.
Thank GAWD it passed!

[Desertrose]

60. Couldn't have said it better!!

We won't have "Access to Health Care".

What we WILL have is access (actually be forced to BUY) is junk Health Insurance with such a high deductible that we won't be able to afford to actually use it.
We will also qualify for a "subsidy" (your tax money) which we will be required to hand over directly to a For Profit Health Insurance Corporation for a "product" we won't be able to use.

Some scam.

[CrispyQ]

64. Nicely stated!!

:applause:

The crux of the issue is the for profit health insurance companies whose first duty is to their shareholders, not patients who need health care.

[shadowknows69]

48. I am, my wife is. And I have absolutely no faith that we'll get decent health care

From this Xmas gift to big profit insurance. That's alright. Crime or suicide are always an option.

[juno jones]

56. Yep.

In the flesh.


And a user of community clinics.

As it sits we are setting up a two-tiered system of healthcare which possibly benefits 'faith-based' charities. Not like anybody cares or anything. We're just poor. To be talked about in front of and never allowed an actual seat at the table.

[still_one]

4. What straw man are you creating. "There are those"??? Who are those? There is a

difference of opinion between different factions in the party, and it is a hell of a lot more inclusive party than the republic party

[aquart]

5. Thank you for your concern.

[NJmaverick]

6. When the self titled left started ATTACKING the Democratic Party and the Democratic President

and the members of DU and demanding destruction of corporations over helping people.... well that sort of set them up as not on our side.


:dem:

[tkmorris]

13. Thanks for defending the corporations NJ

It's a thankless task. It's reassuring knowing you are there, defending the indefensible. Here's to you.

:toast:

[NJmaverick]

15. I am always happy to remind those that stray that PEOPLE are what really matters

there is no need to thank me though.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. you left out "haters"

[G_j]

42. our side?

who? you and the insurance companies?

[jonnyblitz]

7. soon you'll be able to add public school teachers to that list. nt

[AllentownJake]

9. Well they can move over with organized labor, environmentalist, fair trade advocates,

and of course our Gay brothers and sisters who have always been the first to get told to shut the fuck up for "progress" meaning our elected officials bank accounts.

[femrap]

19. Hey....

you forgot women who do NOT want Compulsory Motherhood! They're usually the first ones thrown under the bus.

[AllentownJake]

21. My Bad

Women are generally thrown under the bus as soon as a primary is over. They get it before Gay Americans.

[femrap]

24. Thanks.....

you speak the Truth. Sad but true.

[kenny blankenship]

10. Because the left still remembers what the Democratic Party says it stands for

[Echo In Light]

11. +1 ... accurate and succinct

[WeDidIt]

12. I'd say the left wing won a victory over the FAR left wing

and rightfully so.

[Hydra]

18. So would that be the far right in our party attacking the middle?

Because the goalpost for what's now considered "right" is so far out there in loonsville that perfectly moderate, sensible people are being accused of being in the far left and wrecking America by not supporting corporate welfare queenage of the first order.

The rest of us out here in the real "far left"(read, slightly left) are shaking our heads and wondering why everyone is still, as George Carlin wisely put it, buying into "a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago."

[Echo In Light]

39. Well put. Keep in mind, though that people rarely surrender their Belief Systems

... especially if that BS is likewise perceived to reflect and represent an equally perceptive majority. Asking someone whose headspace is framed in that manner to consider a less subjective view is akin to asking them to jump out of their lifeboat - quite unlikely to be chosen, and usually will only occur once circumstances dictate.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. Then you would be one very confused puppy regarding ideology.

There is no far left wing of the Democratic Party. The 'far left' is in general organized (if it is organized at all) in various third party groups. There is a center left, but it has almost no representation in congress and almost no power in the party. The only outright leftist in the congressional delegation is Bernie Sanders, and he isn't even a member of the party.

There is a progressive caucus in the House, and there are perhaps 12 Senators who vote left of center on some issues. The rest of the delegation is center right.

[Kaleva]

28. A straw man arguement.

The poster you replied to never said there was a far left wing of the Democratic Party.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. Uh what?

"I'd say the left wing won a victory over the FAR left wing"

try again.

[Kaleva]

44. What party, if any, is identified in that statement?

Being a right winger does not mean being a member of the Republican Party altough most Republicans are right wingers.

[Warren Stupidity]

51. This is called a thread. There is a chain of statements

The OP wrote:
"There are those celebrating what they call a victory over the left wing of the democratic party"

The person I responded to replied to the OP:
"I'd say the left wing won a victory over the FAR left wing and rightfully so."

Emphasize all mine, as you seemed to have missed the context.

Feel free to stop me any time here and apologize for your insulting "strawman" comment.

[Greyhound]

30. You'd say it, but you don't even know what 'left' looks like. n/t

[Selatius]

63. There is no "far left" wing in the Democratic caucus in Congress.

There are some center leftists, and one leftist by the name of Bernie Sanders, but aside from Sanders, there are none among any members of Congress. If the center left did win a victory over the far left, they won a victory against a fictional enemy that is non-existent in the halls of Congress.

[fascisthunter]

14. the Republicans/Conservatives now run both Parties

and what a fine mess they have made this country into, furthering our debt, losing our liberties, while giving the wealthy class everything they want. Talk about stupid and crazy...

Soon we will be called terrorists by our own party just for speaking out against them.

[bvar22]

35. That is close to happening now.

There are DUers who support this massive corporate giveaway calling the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party "Teabaggers" and "racists".

[fascisthunter]

53. because they are trolls not only on DU

but within the party itself. Most of these same folks have always been posting right wing shit for ever... article after article, always attacking the left, and always defending the right wing in our own party.

We are the SOUL and of the Democratic Party, they are parasites on the host.

[bvar22]

57. Absolutely Agree.

:patriot:

[MissDeeds]

58. Well said

We are the soul of the Democratic Party, and its conscience, yet we are attacked repeatedly. I can't believe this is happening on DU.

[GreenTea]

16. As I always say, fuck the moderates! Window dressing, fence sitting, which ever way

the wind blows, undecided, corporate media swayed, uninformed, not sure, have actually voted for republicans in the past, just go with the flow, no ideology of their own, afraid of their own shadow, don't go too fast, run from strong progressive positions, scared of liberal thinking FUCKING MODERATES!

[kctim]

17. I am a moderate Democrat

I am celebrating NOTHING. In fact, I am now dreading the coming elections.

[fascisthunter]

27. lots of moderates I have talked to feel the same way

moderates tend to get shit here, because people assume those in power are really moderates, but they aren't. They are corporate sellouts.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

23. Check out the Greatest Page and Home page.

They are not winning at these places.

[Greyhound]

29. The authoritarian streak, so prevalent in America, is easily swayed

by the illusions created by their vengeful God.
:kick: & R

[KittyWampus]

31. I am pretty far Left and I am celebrating. I'm not a fool and recognize progress when it happens.

[Orrex]

61. Didn't you read upthread? You've been scammed!

Scammed, I tell you! Along with everyone else who isn't tearing out their hair and rending their garments over the passage of this infernal, misbegotten bill that does nothing except rip out your fillings and toss them to the insurance companies' coffers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!1


Surely you must have seen the myriad postings to this effect?

[madfloridian]

32. They put down those who questioned as irrelevant, irrational.

That has gotten to me more than anything ever has since hubby and I began working hard as Democrats.

It has taken the heart out of us.

How dare they put down those who care?

This administration is treating teachers and their unions like dirt, and when anyone complains they are in the wrong.

This became about more than the health care bill long ago.

[Bluebear]

37. 'This became about more than the health care bill long ago.'

Truer words never spoken.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. They celebrated the defeat of the left after Chicago in '68. How did that work out?

The best thing to come out of the passage of this giveaway to the corporations is the re-emergence of a left opposition and the demise of nose-holding for the "not as bad" party.

[mitchtv]

45. I remember '68 well

I wrote in Gene McCarthy. Things didn't work out for HHH to well. Too Bad, it could have

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. I vote Peace & Freedom in '68. My first presidential vote.

And, I'd do it again.

[mitchtv]

55. getting to look that way

I voted PFP a number of times

[old mark]

36. If it had not been for the left complaining loudly about this bill, there would

not be ANY good in it at all. The things of value are there because of our "bitching", and they will deny us because they are afraid we are gaining power. Keep up pressure on the Dems whenever you feel it necessary, fuck the GOP and fuck the moderates.


mark

[EFerrari]

38. When the authoritarian wing of the Democratic party wakes up

to their insurance bills, they'll blame us then, too.

[TheWebHead]

41. well, if the senate and house voted down the line with the Dennis Kucinich wing

of the party, they'd forever be stuck in the political wilderness. to stay in power and prevent the vast majority of getting what's done in the general interest of those on all stretches of the left, you have to make some compromises that may make the leading edge of the fringe angry... i have no problem with that, since my ideal senator would be someone like Evan Bayh or Mark Warner.

[shadesofgray]

43. I wonder why OBAMA does, when he wouldn't have won without us.

And how does he think he's going to win in 2012 without all of us?

Because I don't vote for repug enablers.

[shadowknows69]

46. It's pretty fucking sad. The big tent just got real small.

Guess they don't need us anymore.

[CrispyQ]

65. But in 2010 & 2012, they will sternly inform us that we better

get out & vote, & vote dem, not third party, or their losses will be our fault.

We have managed to become irrelevant & important at the same time.

[omega minimo]

47. what "left wing"?

[David Zephyr]

49. Yeah, some victory.

Lerkfish, there is almost a ritualistic glee in the apologists for the corporate sellouts.

You pose a question that, sadly, those who should ponder it won't. :thumbsup:

[RetroLounge]

50. Well, Obama has lost my vote in 2012

Hope he enjoys his early retirement

RL

[Generator]

54. Well I have once again learned the endless value of conformity

against thought. The voices on the left that spent years as our only beacons are now the enemy because they disagree with the president. Well, they are the same voices. I don't believe Obama. Obama lies to our faces. Obama is going to get worse and worse-there is no opposition to Obama and that is scary. Just fake opposiotn from the right that is oppositon for oppostion sake. That's why it's so fucking insulting to call anyone on the left a teabagger. YEAH, we hate Obama because he's black and we believe he's bringing socialism. SOCIALISM, god it makes you want to cry. It's the opposite.

He listens to the most conservative Dems-who is any just world would actually be in the Republican party for that is what they are. He listens to Rahm. And in any just world, he would be called out for the traitor he is. Rahm is our enemy. Unless you are a corporation. Maybe the people that post here are actually millionaires from corporations. That reminds me of how easy the poorest are fooled in the south-just mention baby killing and socialism and they fall in line. Never mind they are being used.

When his administration is over this country will be full on it's way of continuing it's slow downfall to a third world country. Up next privatizing social security. Just like Bush wanted. But my God if Jane Hamsher or Daily Kos or Arrianna Huffington or Olbermann or Naomi Klein or Michael Moore point out what a fraud Obama is-you here on the center will turn against THEM. Talk about brainwashing.

[Blasphemer]

59. It certainly seems that way these days

It is frighteningly important to them to marginalize the left. I suspect their fears will be borne out.