The Greatest Social Achievement Of Our Time

[NJmaverick]

The Senate just voted 60-39 to pass their version of healthcare reform. As Jon Chait says, it is the greatest social achievement of our time. Is it perfect? No, and that is a silly question. Legislation that affects nearly a fifth of the US GDP is never going to be perfect. We have a legislative system that produces compromise. And this process has, that is for sure. Does it cover everyone? No. Is it Medicare for all? No. And we will never give up the fight until universal, affordable, quality healthcare is the birthright of every American. That is not going to come in one step. But this is one huge step towards that goal.

I'm not going to rehash every policy detail. But after the vote today it is now certain that the Congress will pass into law a bill that will provide health insurance for more than 30 million more of our citizens, that will cause hundreds of thousands less to die, that will ease the burden of healthcare costs.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/24/806169/-The-Greatest-Social-Achievement-Of-Our-Time

[aquart]

1. Health insurance is not health care.

Let me know when they pass a health care bill. All I see right now is insurance company stocks going thru the roof and executives salivating at the thought of future bonuses.

[NJmaverick]

2. Then you need to review the entire bill if you don't see the health care

[wolfgangmo]

23. I have reviewed the bill

Of course it hasn't passed committee yet so....? Anything could happen, but we do know that they can't step out of what is in either the house or senate bill and so...


Given those limited choices and applying my expereience in dealing with insurance companies (as owner of a medical clinic), I can assure you that the screwing is just starting. Wall Street knows what this bill is and is hedging their bets by placing money in the insurance companies. Wall Street knows this is a huge windfall for the insurance companies. There is nothing in the bill that will keep insurance companies from charging anything they want or of continuing to screw/kill patients daily.

[Ignis]

28. "as owner of a medical clinic"

Sorry, the facts that you know what you're talking about and you've actually reviewed the bill automatically disqualify you from receiving anything other than *crickets* as a response.

[Kermitt Gribble]

3. You sure are persistent

on pushing this crap bill. Why don't you pm me your address so I can mail you my mandated insurance premiums since I won't be able to afford them?

[NJmaverick]

5. Read the bill, you will be able to afford them

there are plenty of measures to deal with those in need. Plus you will have health insurance, which is certainly a good thing.

[izquierdista]

15. I don't want insurance

I want health CARE. Insurance is a losing bet where the house ALWAYS wins.

[NJmaverick]

17. Who should pay for your health care?

[timeforpeace]

19. Why not him/her?

[NJmaverick]

21. It's the question few what to answer

[izquierdista]

31. I will

I'll self-insure, like I'm doing now. Now, if they could do something about the bullshit pricing in the medical business, I would consider that progress.

[kctim]

4. It is sad to see

the stripping of Constitutional rights as social achievement. Oh well, I am glad you are happy with this act and believe it will lead to what you consider to be better things. As for me, I am taking Olbermans advice and am going to try and get away with it for as long as I can.

[NJmaverick]

6. Isn't the Constitutional Right meme a GOP construct?

[kctim]

12. Only when its rights one doesn't care about losing

easier to dismiss concerns that way.

[Echo In Light]

10. It's A Wonderful World of Colonized Minds

[Vinnie From Indy]

27. Perfecto!

Cheers!~

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Its gotta be by the piece .....

.... right?

[NJmaverick]

11. Are you afraid it's more than what you are getting from the RNC?

[Stinky The Clown]

8. You do realize that the unrecs are less about your message .....

..... than they are about the messenger. Right?

[NJmaverick]

9. Do you know I don't give a rat's ass what the invisible army thinks?

[Moochy]

13. Invisible Army, Cyber Gansters [sic], Oh My!

At Least You are Sharing Your Enemees List.

[kctim]

14. It is no longer invisible

An unfair mandate to purchase from govt, with the threat of force if one did not, would have only pissed off those on the right and millions of moderate Democrats.
An unfair mandate to purchase from private companies will piss off the right, moderate Democrats AND liberals/progressives.

[NJmaverick]

16. From a purely idealistic point of view I don't like mandates

on a more practical level we don't leave people by the side of the curb to die (when they get sick or injured) which means people are treated with or with out insurance.

So I know it's more efficient and cheaper to have people go to doctors instead of using ERs as their primary medical provider.

I know many medical conditions are much cheaper when treated early or before they lead to more serious problems (like treating high blood pressure before a stroke or heart attack).


So while I wish there was a better way, I just don't know how (short of universal free health care) that we can bring medical costs down before we go bankrupt.

[kctim]

22. That has nothing to do with

how pissed off people get when you trample their rights by forcing morals and beliefs on them. Add to that the millions who believe govt didn't trample enough and you have a ton of people who are very angry.
This bill will prove to be a disaster for the average Joe and for the so-called Dems in the coming elections.

[wolfgangmo]

24. And from the insurance companies point of view it is cheaper ...

... to not treat early but rather to stall until the patient is dead or too sick to fight back. Happens daily.

[NJmaverick]

29. Good point, the government tends to pick up these costs

so driving them down will reduce the debt burden.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Well, since you're driving people away from your POV with your incessent posting

of things like this, what is your purpose? You call me (right upthread) an RNC operative, yet you're doing a shitload more damage than me.

Maybe that *is* your view of mavericky.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

25. Yeah, making us SERFS of insurance companies is SUCH a great achievement!!!

:sarcasm:

The OP is SOOOO predictable.

[NJmaverick]

30. You could always just pay the fine (which could cover the cost of the uninsured)

and then you are free as a bird.

[Vinnie From Indy]

26. Pax Obama

Just imagine the future. Giant golden statues of Obama in city squares across America. In one hand a bill from an insurance company and in the other a gun. Children will gather each year on the 24th of December and sing songs in praise of the holy cadre of health insurance providers. Christmas will be just the day after Hallowed Health Care Day which itself will be a national holiday. Fa la la la la . . . la la la la!