Yes, this was historic

[Stinky The Clown]

Health care reform has been the holy grail for more than a century. And now something is finally about to pass.

I'm glad about that. You should be, too.

Most know what I think of the bill and the (lack of) process by which we got here.

But the fact that we got it is significant.

[FreakinDJ]

1. just like NAFTA and the 94 Election cycle

lots of luck on that 1

[DJ13]

5. Exactly

Most recent "historic" bills tend to be the bigger sell outs of the average american.

[bigwillq]

2. Good post.

:thumbsup:

[liberal N proud]

3. Its like cracking the ice

This actually is breaking through.

More to be done, but this may pave the way.

[tridim]

4. Good to see you finally coming around.

:)

[Stinky The Clown]

9. I've not changed my view one iota, stewie

I think the bill sucks. I had a toe in the "Kill The Bill" club. I think we got a shitty bill because the president either failed to lead or got what he wanted; I suspect it is some of both. Which also sucks.

I am not happy.

But that doesn't change the fact this is historic and, perhaps in a half a century, might start to be good. But this is NO social security or Medicare type story. Both of those laws were fundamentally sound.

[tridim]

12. You'll "get it" soon

Sorry to be so hasty in my praise.

However the Bill is sound, there are numerous seed programs in there that are solidly progressive. Obviously it's not perfect, but that's not surprising since no bill in American history has been so.

[MadMaddie]

6. Stinky you are right!

I think there is still the potential to make the bill better. I think they will be able to do it.
I do think they should remove the mandate though - it is America and everyone should have free will.

[Donnachaidh]

7. but it's NOT healthcare and it's not reform.

So what exactly did we get that is so historic?

[JuniperLea]

10. A start... something where there was nothing...

It will grow, but it had to start first.

[Hannah Bell]

20. There was something: Medicare, Medicaid, & private insurance. Nothing is new except the mandate.

That's the new precedent, & it's a bad one.

[johnaries]

24. No, there is a LOT in this bill. Try reading it

http://dpc.senate.gov/dpcdoc-sen_health_care_bill.cfm

State-based not-for-profit co-ops (not as strong as a Federal PO, but something anyway)
Expanded Medicaid
An independent review board
Insurance company profits held in check with a set MLR percentage
No more "pre-existing conditions"
Expanded community care ("free clinics")
No more discrimination
No more getting dropped or having premiums skyrocket when you get sick

and much more.

[Hannah Bell]

28. The mandate = the primary feature. Most on your list = not new. The protections

that are new have work-arounds.

The mandate was, from the beginning, the only non-negotiable feature.

[polpilot]

16. Just because it's not healthcare and not reform and is a total sellout to Repub's contributors

doesn't mean that its not historic. The Titanic was 'historic'...invading Iraq was 'historic'...so we got 'historic'. and a big bill to pay for very little...and the entrenchment and validqation from Obama that only through the healthcare insurance corporation can we EVER get healthcare.

[JuniperLea]

8. It's a start...

Just like Medicare was initially just a start, and was built upon year after year. It's something where there was nothing, and once such things take hold they tend to grow like weeds.

The state opt-out is very much like what Canada started with, and I can't think of one capitalist country with socialized medicine that is working to end their health care system... they all started somewhere and grew from there. This is just the beginning, and it's time to really get to work.

Stinky Xmas to you, Clowny!

:)

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Hey JL!

The very best of the season to you and your clown! :)

I really want this to be another Medicare or Social Security. It surely, as an issue, is bigger than Medicare and arguably, bigger, even, that Social Security. But sadly, the bill is woefully short by the measure of where they were when passed vs where they ultimately got to. In short, both those bills were fundamentally sound. This bill gives way, way, way too much to private companies with lifelong histories of screwing us. Further, neither bill actually limited the rights of half the population in attaining passage (abortion).

To call this bill flawed is incredible understatement.

But at least you and I are friends!

Buon Natale!

[JuniperLea]

22. I'll be hoping for the best...

Pal!

:)

[Greyhound]

11. Repealing the 13th amendment would also be significant...

but hardly desirable.

[Goldstein1984]

13. Cliche' Alert

When someone hands you a lemon, you make lemonade.

I think 2010 and 2012 depend a lot on how that lemonade tastes.

[ixion]

14. it's a historic win for insurance companies and Big Med

and a big screwing for the rest of us. Not much to be happy about there.

[johnaries]

27. Oh, I'm sure Insurance companies are ecstatic about having

their profits limited to a MLR percentage determined by a government agency, or else giving rebates to their customers.

:sarcasm:

[ixion]

29. lol... gullable much?

if you think that is ever going to happen, you're in for a rude awakening.

[johnaries]

30. Try reading the provisions of the bill, and prepare for your own

"awakening".

[HughMoran]

15. Agreed

recced you back to zero.

[cliffordu]

17. KIcketty.

[Odin2005]

19. Health INSURANCE is not Heath CARE

[Stinky The Clown]

23. You're preaching to a choir mate, friend.

[johnaries]

25. Medicare is health insurance. It has always been about ACCESS.

However, there have been funds allocated to help providers be more efficient.

[kjackson227]

21. K&R

[Political Heretic]

26. Sad.

[Atticus]

31. Contrary to what some may say, I think you do, indeed, "get it" Stinky.

I've read enough of this forum to recognize you as a "traditional" Democrat. Idealism is,IMHO, one of the hallmarks and absolutely necessary ingredients of our Democratic tradition. We "give a shit" and we're not the least bit ashamed of letting it show. We do not fear being thought fools and we do not fear being proved wrong occasionally.

I am just as conflicted as you are about this sorry excuse for a HCR bill. Those who interpret my "support" for the (hopeully greatly improved in conference) current legislation as acceptance of the cluster-bang that got us here are either simpletons or insensitive "chess players".

Thanks for giving a damn and laying it on the line.