OMG. I finally realized WHY OBama LIED so Publicly about the Public Option!

[bvar22]

I KNOW Obama is a very smart dude, so I really couldn't understand WHY he would claim he "never campaigned on the Public Option".


It is so he can Claim a Victory when this Bill passes.
The contents of this bill that permanently enshrines the For Profit Health Insurance Industry as the Gateway to Health Care in the USA doesn't really matter at all.

It is the ability to chalk one up in the WIN column that is most important.

Pardon me if I don't attend the Signing Ceremony,
go to the Victory Party,
Hang "Mission Accomplished" Banners,
or Dance in the Happy Parade.

What is IN this Bill matters to me,
and it is NOTHING like the "Health Care Reform" Obama promised during the Campaign.

[TheWebHead]

1. because he could count votes nt

[freddie mertz]

No excuse for lying about it. Next.

[dhpgetsit]

103. It is possible that early on he believed Congress could pass a public option.

And then later found out, or became convinced that it was impossible.

It is also possible that a public option can be included in the final bill, and that it can be passed after changing fillibuster rules in the Senate. I hope progressives will try that

[bc3000]

100. Just figured that out eh? I hear snow is white and grass is green, can you confirm?

[FLAprogressive]

2. It's all about being able to chalk up a "Win", a big one for corporate interests.

[Donnachaidh]

4. he's polishing his legacy much faster than even Bush did

it's embarrassing.

[FLAprogressive]

7. more like polishing a turd.

[Moochy]

3. its the little edit of the historical record that makes it so much truthier

Revisionism: its the Change (to the record) We've been Hoping For!

[sendero]

5. The Audacity of Hope..

... pass a bill that the right hates, the left hates and the middle doesn't like much and expect there not to be a political consequence.

Hope away.

[notadmblnd]

6. of course it is.. it's all just a game to them

That's what has always pissed me off so much. They never stop to consider the real lives they're affecting just so they can continue on with their damn game.

[Greyhound]

8. A very shiny turd he's handing us. n/t

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PassingFair]

16. YOU'RE the turd in this particular punch bowl....

Can't you find somewhere else to float?

[NJmaverick]

10. There is a certain irony in someone deliberately posting false information

calling the President a liar.

[Donnachaidh]

11. and this from someone who is well acquainted with false postings. n/t

[NJmaverick]

12. .

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

14. Here's a nice Christmas Present, just for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x416707

Up is Down
Black is White
War is Peace

[NJmaverick]

18. and here is yours

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/12/23/2159620.aspx

But, from our vantage point as reporters who covered the presidential campaign, Obama's quote to the Washington Post appears to be correct.

And here's Huffington Post's Sam Stein's take: "An examination of approximately 200 newspaper articles from the campaign, as well as debate transcripts and public speeches shows that Obama spoke remarkably infrequently about creating a government-run insurance program. Indeed, when he initially outlined his health care proposals during a speech before the University of Iowa on March 29, 2007, he described setting up a system that resembles the current Senate compromise - in which private insurers would operate in a non-profit entity that was regulated heavily by a government entity."

[freddie mertz]

29. Even Stein admits, however, that Obama is stretching the truth.

Read the whole article?

[NJmaverick]

38. Stretching is clearly not lying, which proves my point

[freddie mertz]

53. I'm convinced you will defend any perfidy, any lie, if it comes from Obama.

He's not the pope, and even the pope's infallibility is much over-rated.

[NJmaverick]

54. Sadly I am pretty sure you believe that nonsense

[freddie mertz]

102. Well, all I have are your posts to go on.

And so far, you have not conceded a fraction of an inch of criticism.

He is alway right, all the time, no matter what he says or does.

That's not a good way to look at anyone, or any thing.

[IsItJustMe]

98. I think it really depends on what your definition of "is" is. Yeah, I think we have been down this

road before. This all seems to familiar.

[bvar22]

41. Oh right.

"I am not a crook"

"I did not have sex with that woman"

and now,

"I did not campaign on the Public Option"


You know, I can STILL find supporters that will insist that "technically", Bill Clinton didn't lie,
but everybody KNOWS he did.

[quark219]

89. +1 Very well said. Thanks. n/t

[SandWalker1984]

99. Famous quote: I did not have sex with that woman!

....and how many years did it take the Democrats to recover from THAT one????

[Liberation Angel]

22. In the first 30 seconds the video proves Obama did NOT lie

then it claims he did.

He did not campaign on the "public option". He camapigned on universal care or coverage.

watch the first thirty seconds to prove this meme is a lie.

[ipaint]

32. How about we let folks decide for themselves.

Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.

Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html


In the 2008 Obama-Biden health care plan on the campaign’s website, candidate Obama promised that “any American will have the opportunity to enroll in new public plan.”

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf


Do you have a plan to make health care more accessible to Americans? If so, how would you do it?

Every American has the right to affordable, comprehensive and portable health coverage. My plan will ensure that all Americans have health care coverage through their employers, private health plans, the federal government, or the states. My plan builds on and improves our current insurance system, which most Americans continue to rely upon, and creates a new public health plan for those currently without coverage. Under my plan, Americans will be able to choose to maintain their current coverage if they choose to. For those without health insurance I will establish a new public insurance program, and provide subsides to afford care for those who need them. My plan includes a mandate that all children have health care coverage and I will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs to help ensure we cover all kids. My plan requires all employers to contribute towards health coverage for their employees or towards the cost of the public plan. Under my plan a typical family will save $2,500 each year. We will realize tremendous savings within the health care system from improving efficiency and quality and reducing wasted expenditures system-wide. Specifically, these savings will result from investments in health information technology, improvements in prevention and management of chronic conditions, increased insurance industry competition and reduced industry overhead, the provision of federal reinsurance for catastrophic coverage, and reduced spending on uncompensated care.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/issues/candidates/barack-obama/



NPR interview 2007-

Obama: Senator Clinton’s plan for healthcare, my plan, John Edward’s plan are all similar in the sense that we set up a government plan alongside the private plans that people have. And people can buy in. And we all subsidize participation in that plan.

Laura Knoy: So it’s not universal, single payer healthcare such as Dennis Kucinich<'s plan>?

Obama: Exactly. It’s not single payer, it’s a transitional system building on the existing systems that we have.

cont.-

Require all children to have health insurance, and employers to offer employee health benefits or contribute to the cost of the new public program. Expand Medicaid and SCHIP and create the National Health Insurance Exchange through which small businesses and individuals without access to other public programs or employer-based coverage could enroll in a new public plan, like Medicare, or in a range of approved private plans.

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=8554



This side-by-side comparison of the candidates' positions on health care was prepared by the Kaiser Family Foundation with the assistance of Health Policy Alternatives, Inc. and is based on information appearing on the candidates' websites as supplemented by information from candidate speeches, the campaign debates and news reports. The sources of information are identified for each candidate's summary (with links to the Internet). The comparison highlights information on the candidates' positions related to access to health care coverage, cost containment, improving the quality of care and financing. Information will be updated regularly as the campaign unfolds.

snip-
Barack Obama-

Create a new public plan so that small businesses and individuals without access to other public programs or employer-based coverage could purchase insurance. Plan coverage would offer comprehensive benefits similar to those available through FEHBP.

http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=5&c=16


May 2007-

Mr. Obama would create a new public plan open to individuals who cannot get group coverage through work or the existing government programs, like Medicaid or the State Childrens Health Insurance Program. He would also create a National Health Insurance Exchange, a regulated marketplace of competing private health plans that would aim at “reforming” the private insurance market and giving individuals other, more affordable options for coverage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/29/us/politics/29CND-OBAMA.html?_r=2


More here:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/22/818090/-President-Obama:-I-Didnt-Campaign-on-the-Public-Option.-

[Liberation Angel]

42. A "public plan" is NOT a "public option": to claim he lied is bullshit. Rovian spin.

OF COURSE he has fought for public plans AND he has fought in recent months for the public option.

But NOWHERE have I seen him say, during the campaign, that he wanted a PUBLIC OPTION as part o his overall reform. he simply did not use that term (as far as i have seen).

So to call him a snake and a liar because he told the washington post that he did not campaign on "a public option" is a nefarious misleading lie which is nitpicky and Rovian in its stylings.

Frankly peole are making a mountain out of this molehill which i what strikes me as Rovian. AND it is a viral antiObama meme which many will NEVER get the true facts on BECAUSE the corporate media wil keep spinning the lie: Obama is a snake and a liar! Obama is a snake and a liar! Obama is a snake and a liar. Now head for the showers we need to delice you.

[ipaint]

46. Where have you been the last 6 months on mars??

"viral anti obama meme" :rofl:

Gotta give it to you on message discipline though.

[bvar22]

57. "Message Discipline"

The talking points have been delivered.
I was wondering HOW The Team was going to try and spin this.
Apparently, No Spin was possible, so outright belligerent DENIAL was the only thing they could come up with.

"No he didn't", and YOU are just a hater!!!! <with a stamping foot>

Good Luck with THAT.
Their resistance, insistence, and belligerent offensive DENIAL will only make this issue a LARGER FAIL ISSUE and keep it alive longer.

Much better to simply have said,
"Yeah, he lied, but so what? ALL politicians do that.
In the larger sense, this is just a little PR thing,
and in no way affects important things like policy."

The problem with Hero Worship is that it becomes IMPOSSIBLE
to admit that your HERO is just a Human.

[austin78704]

92. What's the difference?

You say "public plan" is not the same as "public option." Besides the words used for their names, what is the difference?

[theFrankFactor]

96. He Didn't "Fight" for Any Fuckin' Thing

Corporations rule and as long as there are little Democrat cheerleaders shaking their pom poms for their crush and their "party" that's how it will stay.

In all of this, we are supposed to believe this is somehow NOT the outrage it is. So this is what Democratic majorities and a President can achieve? SHIT! Wow!

Only a shit head would make excuses for this mess.

What's next?

Expansion of the Patriot act?

Our political memory stretches some fifteen minutes at best.

[Usrename]

76. From what I can tell, the public plan was described as a means to an end.

I think Obama sees it as a method of obtaining a certain goal, not as a specific goal in and of itself.

I think you would have to really twist what he was saying to come to the conclusion that he ever saw the public plan as an end in and of itself, rather than a means to an end, which to me seems like a pretty valid distinction.

[winyanstaz]

82. good job..well done..thank you....

pay no attention to the hair-splitters who will scream a public plan is not a public option...same as a blow-job isn't sex........
Odds are..they own stock in the insurance industry.

[freddie mertz]

33. Public plan vs, public option. This is splitting hairs at best.

He also campaigned against mandates and against taxing HC benefits.

Two more promises unkept.

He could explain this in a way that would be a lot more forthright.

Instead, he seems to insist on denying what we all know to be true.

[Goldstein1984]

85. The first 20 seconds of the MSNBC video is all you need to watch

He clearly said any bill he signs will contain an insurance exchange with a public option.

Technically speaking, he hasn't lied because he hasn't signed any HCR bill yet. We'll see, if the House/Senate committee pulls off a miracle of biblical proportions, then maybe he'll get his public option.

[freddie mertz]

26. The proof is in the record.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x416707

[tonysam]

51. Well, he is.

All the spinning in the world doesn't change it.

[uponit7771]

65. GOPers are sayin Obama lied too..

[donheld]

74. How is the President NOT a liar?

I think I'm missing something. If he said he didn't when we know he did isn't that a lie?

[rhett o rick]

78. can you refute what he says or are you just calling the poster names? nt

[Ignis]

13. Mission Accomplished!

Get in line and put some elbow grease into shining this turd.

Or aren't you a "good" Democrat? :eyes:

[napi21]

15. Why ar you blaming Obama when it's Congress who writes & passes bills?

I don't know what he told the Dems behind those closed doors & neither do you. I hear talking heads saying they wouldn't blame him is he had insisted on a PO, or no mandates, or any of the other programs that were discussed and taken out. He consulted with Pelosi & Reid, and I'm sure the vote counters were there too, and they told him what they thought they could get passed and what they couldn't. You may HATE the way the Senate works, but you gotta live with it! I takes 67 vites ti change the rules and I can;t see any way that would ever happen! This kind of thing happens in all negotiation! Ask a Union negotiator some time, or a buyer for a major business and you'll find out you never get ALL you want on either side, and when the business (or gov't in this case) is doing well you have a better chance, but when things are bad, you're lucky to end up with much. Non of that is Obama's fault. He has to deal with a terrible economy, and an opposition Party who wants him impeached! You do the best you can, and recognize when the time is up.

[ima_sinnic]

24. not knowing "what he told Dems behind closed doors" is kinda key, isn't it?

it was reported that he barely mentioned a public option, or slightly in passing, or maybe not at all, when he met with senators one week before they all voted against one.

his "transparency," as exhibited in his secret meetings with pharmacy lobbyists (and what is so different about that and Cheney's secret energy meetings?), is just another one of his convenient lies he doesn't have to account for because all presidents lie and he can't do everything in the first however many days or years and being president is hard work.

He had plenty of leverage at his disposal, and he used it to get what he wanted for his already wealthy patrons.

[bvar22]

35. We have some reports about what Obama did behind closed doors.

...like removing Single Payer from the agenda and forbidding discussion of Single Payer

...like sitting down with lobbyists from the Industry and locking out the Progressive Caucus and members of the community that supported Single Payer.

...like having Pelosi remove the Kucinich Amendment AFTER it had passed in committee.

...like telling Reid to give Lieberman everything he wanted.

But it is NOT what he did behind closed doors.
It IS what he DIDN'T DO in public.

After the election, he was The Leader of a "CHANGE MOVEMENT".
Had he called US to Washington to STAND in front of the Capitol with HIM and DEMAND a REAL Reform Bill, MILLIONS would have answered the call.
He didn't.
He sat down with the Health Insurance and Pharma Cartels and crafted a bill that gave THEM everything they wanted.

But that is NOT what this thread is about.
This is about claiming he never campaigned on the Public Option, when everybody KNOWS he did,
and anyone with youtube or access to his campaign website can PROVE.
Why did he do something that appears on the surface to be very stupid?
The answer is in the OP.

[sellitman]

101. This should be a separate post

Spot on!

I voted for and supported a liar, and it was not suppose to be this way.

Thank you for posting what is clearly the truth.

The spin from the hero worshipers is stunning.

They remind me of the other side.

[lib2DaBone]

39. (IMHO) Congress doesn't write bills..Big Insurance writes the bills...

Congress just rubber stamps whatever the lobbyists tell them to do. Here is Max Baucus with his newly appointed Chief of Staff, Liz Fowler, former VP for Wellpoint. Ms. Fowler writes the law and Mr. Baucus wields the rubber stamp.

[phasma ex machina]

55. "Health insurance reform" without skipping a beat.

"That's my baby!"

[Jamastiene]

104. Wasn't there a post on here the other day that said Feingold was the only one who read the bill?

I think you just nailed it. Your post is closer to what I believe is really happening in our government nowadays.

[Kalun D]

81. Closed Doors

""I don't know what he told the Dems behind those closed doors & neither do you.""

And we don't know what he told big pharma behind closed doors either. Whut up wit dat? Thought he campaigned on transparency? Oh wait, he didn't use those EXACT WORDS so it doesn't count? LOLZ!

""Ask a Union negotiator some time""

ask them what? How much they gave to Obama and the fact they've got exactly ZERO back?

""Non of that is Obama's fault. He has to deal with a terrible economy""

He's laid down on health care, never pushed at all, now that a bill that totally favors big pharma and big insurance is finalized, he sez, let's get this passed. Shows who's side he's on.

And the economy is partly his creation, he campaigned on raising taxes on the rich, a sure way that Clinton turned it around. Obama not only failed to raise taxes on the rich, he's signed over big taxpayer giveaways to them, which is what this bill is.

Obama is a corporate grifter, nothing more, nothing less.

[bridgit]

17. I hope Obama's Message isn't just a message about Obama's quest...

for plausible deniability

[Liberation Angel]

19. The Rovian meme that Obama LIED is itself a LIE!

Obama ran on universal care or universal coverage.

He supported a public plan and fought for it AFTER he was inaugurated as a COMPROMISE that he could live with.

This is a right wing meme based on the flimsiest of assertions but it is being swallowed whole hog by the Obama haters here and by socaled progressives who have neglected to look closely at the facts.

[FLAprogressive]

25. No, he supported a public plan during the campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-6jEOVG-IE

[ima_sinnic]

27. there are plenty of other lies--what about his secret pharma meetings?

you remember the LIE about "transparency"?

and the one we've already "discussed," that "everybody would have a seat at the table."

not to mention huge whoppers in other areas, such as "making it a priority to reinstate habeas corpus"--he hasn't "had time" to do that, but his administration HAS had time to contest any challenge to the current destruction of it.

[amborin]

110. +100

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. You're right. He didn't lie, he "disseminated".

[bvar22]

37. Uh yeah....you're right..... and neither did these guys:

"I am not a crook"

"I did NOT have sex with that woman"

and now,

"I did not campaign on the Public Option"

[Liberation Angel]

43. See, the Rovian elevation of a lie becomes enshrined in the rhetoric of Obama hate

you make my point very well

It makes progressives look like fools to fall for this tripe

[bvar22]

45. Hardly.

The ones attempting to Defend the Indefensible are the ones suffering from exposure due to a lack of clothes.

So much more honest to simply say,
"Yeah, he really screwed the pooch with THAT one, but OK.
It was a mistake. He's only human.
But in the context of Policy, this is a small mistake."

Thats the problem with Hero Worship.
You can never admit that your Hero is only Human.


BTW: I LIKE Obama and his Family.

[bridgit]

47. "I did not; have; sex; with that HCR bill, Ms. Aetna" is not Rovian meme

The RW's persistent obfuscations may have brought it to Rove's door step; but Dems and ChiTown Team Obama in particular, scratched that 8-ball. The misunderstanding of it is closer to liberal Dem guilt for making our own contributions to the sellout of America which *is* a facet of Limbaugh/Rovian meme

[spiritual_gunfighter]

95. The only one who is ending up looking like a fool

is your "up is down", "black is white" horseshit.

[dflprincess]

83. He might have favored universal "coverage"

but his attitude toward the "solution that must not be mentioned or discussed" makes it clear that he was never concerned about us having actual access to care.

For that matter, he apparently no longer cares about universal coverage as 15 million people will still be uninsured. Nice to know the insurance companies were willing to strike a deal that only covered 2/3 of those currently uninsured. I suppose they were content with that because they know more people will be underinsured so all they'll have to do with those people is cash their premium checks and avoid paying much in claims for them.

[Jamastiene]

107. Even the tasmanian devil would get dizzy. n/t

[yurbud]

20. it's the PATRIOT ACT STRATEGY: it's not the details that matter, just the banner in the background

and the checks you get handed under the table.

[leftstreet]

62. Mission Accomplished!

...or something like that

K&R

[ProSense]

21. "It is so he can Claim a Victory when this Bill passes."

Is that why all the other Democrats are calling it a historic victory?

Tomorrow, the U.S. Senate will vote on passage of the most sweeping health care reform in generations.

[ima_sinnic]

30. they can take the "Mission Accomplished" banner out of mothballs for the signing ceremony (nt)

[ipaint]

36. Don't give them any ideas they might pull out the flight suit too. lol nt

[Jamastiene]

106. zOMG, and the horrible misshapen packie too.

:puke:

[EFerrari]

31. bvar22, I don't let Obama or anyone off the hook

and I think you know that. But, there's no underestimating the corruption that is our government at this moment in our history.

It must be like working in a broken, overflowing sewer.

Obama is exactly my little brother's age. And I'm split about in half, empathizing with seven layer cake of rank corruption he has to sit down to every day AND being furious with him on so many fronts for throwing the left out of the window on his way to history.

But he really can't be assessed fairly in a vacuum. This post is mostly me talking out loud, I guess.

[onethatcares]

34. but as harry ried said,

"we cannot be the only country in the industrialized world to not have PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE". Yay, our side, we got the best health insurance money can buy.


If you have a job or can afford to pay for it.

When did the mission become "public health insurance"????? I'm flagbatasted...

Bring the troops home

Practice Peace.

[bedazzled]

77. it's crappy insurance even if you can afford to pay for it

that's the saddest part of all...

[CoffeeCat]

40. A political "win" in name only...

Yes, the President and others can say they passed a healthcare bill.

However, this is a hated bill. This is not a political win. I mean...who do they win?
Progressives--who are at least half of the party and the muscle that pulled in the Obama
win--are extremely upset.

Galavanting across the nation, touting a "Yeah, I passed something!" meme will only
further piss off people--not to mention a majority of Democrats.

[Jamastiene]

108. Don't forget "historic." n/t

[Odin2005]

44. K&R

[johnaries]

48. Actually, it is almost everything he campaigned on if you actually

READ THE BILL.

The HCR plan he campaigned on consisted of many different components. The PO is the only thing that isn't in the Seante bill, but it does provide for a non-profit option which in theory should do the same as the PO.

[bvar22]

49. Non-profit state agencies and co-ops were talked about....

...during the entire Kubiki Theater of the Health Care "debate".
I believe they were initially a talking point of the Republicans.
They have been repeatedly dismissed by everyone as too small to make any difference what-so-ever.
NOW, they are being resurrected as the Savior of the Senate Bill.

Pardon me if I don't join THAT parade.

[tonysam]

50. You're giving him too much credit

This has nothing to do with strategy. Obama lied his ass off.

[jbnow]

91. Actually there was no ;ie. I don't understand people saying

that his statement that it 'wasn't something he campaigned on' is a lie.

He barely talked about it while he was campaigning for president. Yes it was in his plan... so was increased childhood education on health and improving requirements for reporting medical errors... but did he "campaign on" them?
Generally what you are said to "campaign on" is what you talk about at campaign rallies when you are running for office. He "campaigned on" health care reform for sure but what he talked about was the protections (like changes in caps, preexisting condition, rescinding) and coverage to age 26 on parents policy and reinsurance for catastrophic coverage, the exchange people could chose from

He barely mentioned public option.

Now if he said he never campaigned FOR the public option that would be a lie. After hebecame president when hc debate was starting he went to rallies and town halls and talked about what it was and why we needed it. He'd add that if there was something else that offered competition to keep them honest he was open to that but he thought public option did it best.

So the mystery to me is...what is the lie?
Is it because it was in his plan he did indeed campaign on it even if he didn't really talk about it.
Or that because as president he did campaign for it and you think "campaign on" and "campaign for" are the same thing?

[Clear Blue Sky]

52. It's about a win for him...

And payback to his financial backers...

[ClarkUSA]

56. OP is entitled to his opinion but Pulitzer Prize winning Politifact backs President Obama up.

... the public option was not a very prominent part of Obama's platform... he didn't discuss it very much during the campaign. That's true for both the general election and the Democratic primary.

If you look for mentions of the public option in Obama's speeches or comments to voters, you'll find very few. In fact, Obama gave a major address in Iowa on May 29, 2007, outlining his health care plan in considerable detail. There's not one mention of the public option in his speech.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/23/barack-obama/public-option-obama-platform/

[Hatchling]

58. Talk about spinning.

...the public option was not a very prominent part of Obama's platform...

But it was still there even if not prominent.

...he didn't discuss it very much during the campaign.

But he did discuss it some.

If you look for mentions of the public option in Obama's speeches or comments to voters, you'll find very few.

Very few doesn't mean none.

He lied.

[ClarkUSA]

61. Politifact says of the "mentions of the public option in Obama's speeches... you'll find very few."

Anyone can splice a few cherrypicked film clips together to give an erroneous impression, but Politifact is an unbiased source.

As far as I recall, and I worked for the campaign for most of last year, Candidate Obama campaigned on everyone having the same insurance option that he and congress have and that's just what happened. Now I'll let others split hairs while I enjoy reading the following article.

Why the health care bill is the greatest social achievement of our time.
Jonathan Chait, Senior Editor of The New Republic
December 24, 2009 | 12:00 am

The first thing reform does is make insurance affordable for people who currently can’t buy it. Why can’t people afford insurance now? Well, either they don’t get it through work and can’t afford a regular insurance plan (say, a cashier at Wal Mart who doesn’t get insurance through her job) or they have a preexisting condition which means no insurer will sell them a regular insurance plan (say, a diabetic who can’t get insurance on the individual market.) Or sometimes both (a diabetic Wal Mart cashier, perhaps.)

Health reform solves the affordability problem by subsidizing insurance coverage, or expanding Medicaid, for low- and moderate-income families. And it solves the pre-existing condition problem by setting up a marketplace, called an exchange, where insurers must sell policies to anybody, at one price, and cover all basic services. In order to prevent people from going uninsured until they get sick, it also requires everybody to purchase insurance, except in limited hardship cases...

Reality lies in between the two mutually exclusive caricatures. First of all, the insurance industry has taken a decidedly mixed stance on health care reform... Second of all, most of us normally accept private profit accompanying public services. Liberals don’t call programs to reduce class size a “teacher’s union bailout.” Nor do liberals call Pentagon increases a “defense contractor’s bailout.” Insurers may be getting a lot of new customers, but that comes with the trade-off of a lot of unwanted regulation. There is more at work in the progressive revolt than an irrational attachment to the public plan or an executive distrust of private industry. The bizarre convergence of left-wing and right-wing paranoia echoes the forces that brought down the moderate consensus of the postwar era.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/just-noise

[Hatchling]

66. Very few doesn't mean none.

And Countdown did a long and impressive segment of video clips of the "few" times he mentioned it in his campaign. There re a few posts onit on the Greastest page. Take a look.


He lied.

[ClarkUSA]

68. Um, Pres. Obama never said he never once mentioned the public option. You're moving the goalposts.

:eyes:

Look, I'm not going to further waste my time arguing with an obviously bitter anonymous blogger who is desperately
grasping at straws because of a need to make a mountain out of a molehill.

I have better things to do on Christmas Eve.

Pulitzer Prize winning Politifact and I disagree with you and no amount of self-serving spin will change that fact.

[AusDem]

88. yes, but he said he didn't "campaign" on the public plan

it might have been one of the things that he would have liked to see in the final bill, but he didn't CAMPAIGN on it. why are people having such trouble understanding the difference.

He didn't specifically go out there and say "vote for me because I'm going to offer a public option". To paraphrase, he said "vote for me because I have these goals that I'm going to push to find a solution to the healthcare crisis, AND one of the ways I hope to achieve it is through the use of a public plan"

people have mentioned the other things about his decisions to leave single payer off the table (again, something he most certainly didn't think was possible), and his lack of pressure on certain senators (a valid criticism).

but to go off the deep end and rant about him lying, and then compare it to something like "I'm not a crook" or "I didn't have sex with that woman" is completely unfair. the other two dealt with two presidents who had committed acts that were criminal and highly unethical. This is nowhere near that, and people need to grow up. you're just feeding the right wing machine, and you will get screwed EVEN MORE if democrats fail to hold majorities or the next whitehouse, or worse, both.

[bvar22]

59. Christmas Special Delivery just for you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x416707

AND, the above are just a few of the Videos of Obama campaigning on the Public Option.
There are an abundance of other sources documenting his campaigning on a Public Option.

If I read you correctly, you are trying to say that Obama only campaigned on the Public Option just a little bit....so it doesn't count?

That NEVER worked with my mother,
and shouldn't have worked with yours.

[ClarkUSA]

63. Anyone can slice a few cherrypicked film clips together to give an erroneous impression...

...but Politifact is an unbiased source. My mother also told me to consider the source.

As far as I recall, and I worked for the campaign for most of last year, Candidate Obama campaigned on everyone having the same insurance option that he and congress have and that's just what happened. Now I'll let others split hairs while I enjoy reading the following article.

Why the health care bill is the greatest social achievement of our time.
Jonathan Chait, Senior Editor of The New Republic
December 24, 2009 | 12:00 am

The first thing reform does is make insurance affordable for people who currently can’t buy it. Why can’t people afford insurance now? Well, either they don’t get it through work and can’t afford a regular insurance plan (say, a cashier at Wal Mart who doesn’t get insurance through her job) or they have a preexisting condition which means no insurer will sell them a regular insurance plan (say, a diabetic who can’t get insurance on the individual market.) Or sometimes both (a diabetic Wal Mart cashier, perhaps.)

Health reform solves the affordability problem by subsidizing insurance coverage, or expanding Medicaid, for low- and moderate-income families. And it solves the pre-existing condition problem by setting up a marketplace, called an exchange, where insurers must sell policies to anybody, at one price, and cover all basic services. In order to prevent people from going uninsured until they get sick, it also requires everybody to purchase insurance, except in limited hardship cases...

Reality lies in between the two mutually exclusive caricatures. First of all, the insurance industry has taken a decidedly mixed stance on health care reform... Second of all, most of us normally accept private profit accompanying public services. Liberals don’t call programs to reduce class size a “teacher’s union bailout.” Nor do liberals call Pentagon increases a “defense contractor’s bailout.” Insurers may be getting a lot of new customers, but that comes with the trade-off of a lot of unwanted regulation. There is more at work in the progressive revolt than an irrational attachment to the public plan or an executive distrust of private industry. The bizarre convergence of left-wing and right-wing paranoia echoes the forces that brought down the moderate consensus of the postwar era.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/just-noise

[Hatchling]

67. If the clips have him saying the words

it doesn't matter if they are "cherry-picked": he SAYS THE WORDS!

Ergo: he lied.

[ClarkUSA]

70. He never said that he never said the words "public option".

Ergo: he DIDN'T lie.

Look, I'm not going to further waste my time arguing with an anonymous blogger who is desperately
grasping at straws because of a need to make a bitter mountain out of a molehill.

I have better things to do on Christmas Eve.

Pulitzer Prize winning Politifact and I disagree with you and no amount of self-serving spin will change
that fact.

[Jamastiene]

109. define, "is."

[bvar22]

71. But...but..but..He only LIED a little, so it doesn't count.

Yeah, Right.

I'm NOT a crook."

"I did NOT have sex with that woman."

"I didn't campaign on the Public Option."

I know people who STILL INSIST that Clinton "technically" did not lie.
But everybody KNOWS he did.
Same here.

The belligerent, hostile DENIAL is keeping alive something that should have been a small issue.

"OK. So he lied. Big deal. They ALL lie.
So what?"

But the Head On insistent demand that we believe THEM, and not our own eyes and ears only makes this thing worse.

[scentopine]

60. With new dems, if winning means becoming republican - so be it. -nt

[Vidar]

64. K&R.

[andyrowe]

69. We were close.

So close.

[waiting for hope]

72. K&R - the American people don't need

a legacy bullet point, we need real reform, not the status quo.

[janedum]

73. How about that. Health Insurance won't be "OPTIONAL". You pay a FINE if you don't have it. Ripoff!

[DemReadingDU]

75. Does anyone know how often the fine has to be paid?

If I don't have insurance, then I pay a fine of $750. But then I get the government insurance plan? Is that how this works? Is the government plan good or bad? If the fine is one-time per year, that is a heck of a lot cheaper than what I am paying now.

[FarLeftFist]

80. I believe it is once-a-year, but currently you do not then get Govt insurance.

Unless you make less than a certain amount you can be already eligible for medicaid. According to DKos the mandate is not mandatory.
Link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/21/817417/-Devil-in-the-Details:-Mandate-not-mandatory

[FarLeftFist]

79. Can someone please remind me again of the last president that did not lie.

Thanks in advance. All president's lie, the content of the lie is what seems to matter. Next year no one will even be talking about the president lying about a public option, it is a non-controversial lie, but people don't forget watergate and the Iran-contra/Reagan controversy/lies. It's all about content.

[peacetalksforall]

84. I can't afford the time to follow the fine points - so I will jump to a conclusion -

If all this means that insurance companies will be making more money off of us and screwing us in rules and regulation that they - corporations - write up and profit from, I will live in a state of pricked balloon and disrespect. Therefore, I don't give a damn if Obama lied or not - I only care about what he is giving to the insurance companies and whether they are going to get richer while we remain unprotected, bankrupt, and near death from worry and stress.

The people of the U.S. are WORSE off than most countries of the world at the present time.

It is deadly to demean what other countries do by calling it socialism. It is a flag o stupidity.

We will soon know whether we can confirm that the U.S. is of, by, and for corporations.

I blame every politician who came before Obama on this nightmare greed game and if he adds to it he just becomes one more phony politican in a line of them.

Capitalism smells like hell if what we're hearing is an example of what we might get.

I hope for the best.

[FarLeftFist]

86. "The people of the U.S. are WORSE off than most countries of the world at the present time."

That's not really true. We are alot BETTER off than most countries at this present time. Really we are, with 'most' being the keyword.

[eridani]

87. I think they meant industrialized countries

Not that we should blow off the third world, particularly since most of them were deliberately 'undeveloped.'

[peacetalksforall]

105. I wasn't precise. I meant worse off in health care for most people and yes, I meant compared to

industrialized nations.

[Johnny ramone]

90. K&R

This bill is a nightmare. :(

[Peacetrain]

93. Bull Hockey

[Patriot 76]

94. "Hang Mission Accomplished Banners"?

Are you able to disagree with the Democratic President and fellow Democrats without using such divisive rhetoric?

Can't you just stick to the facts about your issues with the President.

Yours and others constant everyday drama takes away from your actual points.

[RedCloud]

97. Hang them from the highest oak tree at noon! They deserve to be hanged.

For the murder of those who cannot pay the outrageous health care bills and the raping of our economy. And for bribing our government to do whatever the insurance scammers want, but take the blame for it as THAT is part of the game plan.

Yes hang them. And hang them in effigy if need be.

[liberal_at_heart]

111. "Mission Accomplished", lol

Yes this bill will be our "Mission Accomplished" banner.