Obama campaign website: “Any American will have the opportunity to enroll in [a] new public plan.”

[Bluebear]

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

Page 5, point (2) Through the Exchange, any American will have the opportunity to enroll in the new public plan or an approved private plan, and income-based sliding scale tax credits will be provided for people and families who need it.

====

If this does not indicate that he campaigned on a "new public plan", do correct.

[Jamastiene]

1. He was for it before he was against it. K&R

[Donnachaidh]

2. but but but -- the CHORUS says NO HE DIDN'T!

That's all that matters! Stop showing all that pesky proof and listen to the howl of the Chorus! They speak the TRUTHINESS!!!!

[Bluebear]

3. And the campaign only took place in IOWA!!!!1

[Peacetrain]

6. BULL HOCKEY..

[Bluebear]

7. You were there from the GET GO!!! You KNOW!

:)

[Peacetrain]

8. You better know it...

[Bluebear]

9. "BULL HOCKEY" is not a correction of what was on his campaign website, sorry.

[donco6]

10. And YOU WEREN't THERE from the BEGINNING!!!1111 n/t

[Bluebear]

16. Sorry, I am not ADAM OR STEVE!!!!!!1

[polpilot]

52. Again. Maybe by 'public plan' he meant that the 'public plan' would be a 'private plan'.

administered for healthcare denying health insurance companies with fat checks coming directly from the U.S. Treasury. Depends on your definition of 'is' or 'was'or 'backtrack'..or 'lie' is.

[mcablue]

4. That promise doesn't count. He didn't say it a lot of times nt

[Bluebear]

5. You're right. And anything on his official website, well, anybody could have put that there

[donco6]

11. Absolutely, now SAY YOU'RE soRRY!

[Jamastiene]

57. It was those PESKY BLTs.

They snuck in and fornicated a WHOLE new slogan for his campaign site. Then, they clutched their pearls, got the vapors and clicked send.

It's ALWAYS those PESKY BLTs. :silly:

:evilgrin:

[Bluebear]

71. ALWAYS!!!11

[amborin]

84. LOL

[griffi94]

28. or in pig latin

[Jamastiene]

56. How many times did he have to say it for you to believe it counts?

[still_one]

12. So what do you think he should do about it? Maybe call a press conference and appologize, huh?

and then to make everyone happy, how about vetoing the bill because it doesn't have a public option. Yeah, that's the ticket. I am sure that would help us in 2010, and 2012, because the news media, whose insights have been so accurate, tell us how the American public hates this bill, and this would make us get healthcare much quicker

Of course, whether he campaigned for it or not is not the issue, because we all know in our heart that he could have forced nelson, lieberman, lincoln, and others to beg for the public option

Yeah, Obama is just a tool of the corporations. Boy did he fool them all by being a community organizer and associating with terrorists.

I can hardly wait until we find another quote where he mis-spoke, oh wait, I mean lied, as though we all are so virtuous, how dare he cross that line of being human.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

14. I could care less whether he campaigned for it or not. You think that is the most important issue?

If you want a public option then let your Congress person know you would like this bill amended when it becomes law to have a public option or single payer

[Bluebear]

15. Good. If you don't care, then we won't see you discussing it here anymore.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

19. my oh my, getting personal, as though you are assuming I am a fan of emanuel

I love the logic that is being used lately, and the conclusions that are jumped to

[havocmom]

21. Not personal at all. Just not intimidated by weak ass insinuations

I love the neo-con-esque tactics being used around here in the laughable attempts to quell righteous disgust with DEMS who wrangle for the status quo after campaigning on change AND Public option

[still_one]

22. I am not a neocon. You don't know me personally, and I don't

know you, and I make NO assumptions about you

I also have no problem with free speech

[still_one]

18. You are not going to get rid of me that easily, and obviously you didn't read my

full post, or decided just to comment on selective portions of it

I can post anywhere I want, as long as I am within the rules of DU, as can you or anyone

[Bluebear]

20. No, I am going to get rid of you EASIER! /ignore

:hi:

All that pompom tissue paper is flying all over the place, enough already.

[still_one]

23. LOL, that is what I like about objectivity, and open mindedness. Have a good day

because you see, I am not afraid to engage whether I agree or disagree with others

So you or no one else ever gets put on ignore by me

[HughMoran]

66. Good for you

The flamethrowers are firing blanks anyway.

[Zhade]

63. You don't have a problem with people lying to you?

How can you trust a proven liar? How will you know if he's telling the truth when he's destroyed his credibility by lying so brazenly?

[griffi94]

31. i think a press conference and an apology

would go along way toward putting this behind him.

[GreenArrow]

42. Apologies count for little without pennance.

He's not sorry anyway; twas done by intent.

[griffi94]

44. you're probably correct

but i still think he should hold a press conference and apologize.
he got caught in a lie and instead of owning up to it he tried to pretend he hadn't lied. so even if he apologizes and doesn't mean it at least he doesn't look as arrogant.
let me add i'm not defending him or cheerleading here, just what i think would be effective damage control in response to the poster that asked what he should do now.

[GreenArrow]

47. well, you're probably correct about that

Personally, what bugs me worse than someone lying to me, is someone lying to me, getting caught, and then apologizing without any genuine contrition. I don't think he's contrite in the least.

[griffi94]

48. personally i agree with you

at this point he may end up looking arrogant even he did issue an apology.
i'm put off at the really poor shuffle job he tried to pull by pretending he didn't get busted and then telling jim lehrer that he got 95% of what he wanted and if other people didn't, well he was still happy.

[Jamastiene]

58. It's about time you came around and realized the truth. n/t

[Zhade]

62. He lied. That's a proven fact. Honesty matters to me.

I'm hardly the only one.

[HughMoran]

68. Politicians never say stuff on campaign literature that doesn't reflect word for word

- what they are going to do. Nope, never happens. Oh, and your previous hatred displayed in thousands of posts made it so I had no idea what you were going to say. Nope. None. Do you really think we're all fucking raging idiots here? Credibility? meet mirror.

[The Gunslinger]

78. Vetoing it sounds good to me.

This pro corporate bill is not going to help in 2010.

[varelse]

24. Why can't people quit covering for the lie? The man lied to us. Deal with it.

This isn't the first politician to publically and unabashedly lie to his supporters and he will not be the last one. People need to get a grip.

[still_one]

25. Do you really believe that is why people are defensive about it? Don't you think

it might have to do with the emotional atmosphere of the last couple of days instead from all sides?

[varelse]

26. It hurts when someone you trust lies to you

the natural reaction is to deny the deed - to find some way to prove that it never happened. However, in this case the lie has been exposed, and it is undeniable now.

It's time to accept that fact and move on, in whatever direction you're heading. Politicians specialize in half-truths, implication (how many people STILL believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the 911 terrorist murders? The Bush administration NEVER came out and claimed that) and yes, outright lies. We vote for these people anyway, and we support them as the "lesser evil" if nothing else. It's not new, but what's tiresome to me at least is the head in the sand denial.

The deed has been done. It really is time to accept this fact and move on.

[still_one]

29. If we are only talking about this, I agree with you, however, I do not think you can ignore

the other comments that have been thrown back and forth. In other words, this event isn't in a vacumm

Other accusations have also been used, and not all the accusation are valid. In other words they represent an opinion, not a fact, so when this item comes forth, as you said the natural reaction is to deny the deed, but since the atmosphere is pretty charged with other things, this should be no surprise, at least not for me, and I take it you also

Even in your response you word our choices as the "lesser evil", however, that is how you may view, and not necessarily me or others. That of course is subjective, and not the same thing as a mis-statement or lie which is recorded.

We can even debate on degress of lies? For the purest, any lie in any form is bad? However, would a lie in order to save someone be bad?

I am just saying we all have different values and standards, and that is what makes the world go around

[varelse]

33. It's really quite simple in this case

our President told a lie, and a fairly important and significant one. I did not at first wish to believe that he had done so, but the facts do not permit of another interpretation, unfortunately.

This was not a "no, I do not have any Tutsi tribe members hidden in my house" sort of lie - it was entirely the other kind. If someone believes this was a justifiable lie, and that our President had every right to tell it, that would represent a different set of values. However, to hotly deny at this point that he lied to us, is no longer a defensible position.

Ugh... I'm tired of this word in association with the man I voted to elect as our President. I hope very sincerely that this is an aberration on his part and that it will not be repeated.

[still_one]

34. At least this is a reasonable and civil discussion, better than post #27 which

is not trying to even communicate

[Donnachaidh]

27. oh baloney!

Emotional atmosphere?

Jeez -- how Rovian -- take a situation where someone points out a very OBVIOUS *LIE*, with not only written interviews but actual VIDEOTAPE of that LIE -- and the only people getting *emotional* are the Obama groupies that then spend hours posting little tantrums and *I was there so I know he didn't lie, neener neener* poutrage postings.

GROW UP. All of you.

When called on your bullshit you start talking about *free speech* -- but that is conveniently forgotten when differing opinions are voiced. And then YOU act all put upon when you're called on your BS tactics.

Grow up or go get meds -- because it's quite obvious that you are either paid shills for someone, or you are emotionally unstable.

Childish tactics that were born in free-republic being used here by *so called* democrats. Sad. Truly sickening.

[still_one]

32. Maybe you should look in the mirror. Did I deny he lied? NO. Did I call anyone "rovian" or names?

NO. If you read my post, I was directing at a specific post, NOT YOURS, who was characterizing me a certain way. You don't like it, fine, you can express your views to me anyway you see fit, that is YOUR right

I am not going to call your tactics "BS" or "bullshit" or any of the other so-called tactics that you say I am using. NOT ONCE DID I SAY OBAMA DID NOT LIE

and if I add a little humor to a post on another thread, which was just a joke, and had nothing to do with this topic, and you get uptight on that, I find it laughable that you say I should grow up or get meds.

You call me a shrill or emotionally unstable.

I think your comments speak for themselves

You want discuss something with me fine, but calling me names, what does that accomplish?

[THUNDER HANDS]

30. I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where he guaranteed all this stuff

saying this is what I would like to do and what I guarantee to do are two separate things that I believe people are missing.

Or maybe they're not, and they just want to be deliberately obtuse.

[Clintonista2]

35. Did you miss the part where he said "this is what I WON'T do" and then he ended up doing it?

i.e mandates. Or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

[THUNDER HANDS]

36. a plan is not a promise

and unless you've never followed politics longer than a few weeks, most presidents end up doing things a little differently than what they campaigned on.

[Clintonista2]

37. Semantics

He attacked his opponents for proposing a mandate, while including a public option in his platform. He then did an about face and lied about what he proposed (promised) to do in the first place.

[THUNDER HANDS]

40. so he should ...what?

tell the senate to go back and write up another bill?

He got the best he could get. Practically every Democrat who supported the PO was on board - but they didn't have enough to prevent a filibuster.

Oh well.

[Clintonista2]

43. He should stop lying

[THUNDER HANDS]

46. well

that depends upon how you define what he said.

[GodDamLiberal]

49. Especially in the days of youtube

I just love how he supported mandates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofw5F2yUJO4

[sabrina 1]

72. Well, that's not true. He got 95% of what he wanted

he has stated that himself.

[treestar]

76. True. Why aren't Feingold, et. al. called liars too?

Sanders, Feingold and any liberal Democrat who wanted the PO. They aren't going to vote no on it and Obama is not going to veto it. They decided it helps people and is a start.

[treestar]

75. There is no need to call it "lying." Just ridiculous over drama

If he followed his promise strictly, he'd have to veto this for not having a public option and having a mandate. That wouldn't be best for the country. And now he has a plan much like Hillary's. How a Hillary supporter could have a problem with this?

[Zhade]

64. You're moving the goalposts. He lied when he said he never campaigned on the PO.

No one's saying he lied because he failed to deliver a PO -- they're pointing out, and are backed up by UNDENIABLE VIDEO EVIDENCE, that he lied when he said he didn't campaign on one. He did. Period. No amount of denial can change the demonstrable fact.

[treestar]

74. Amen!

Which he could never do. And anyone who campaigned or voted for him knew that. They know how our system works.

He was stating his ideal world, where Congress would go along with that.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

38. He meant will have a chance to buy expensive private insurance through a coop.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. He had his fingers crossed.

[jonnyblitz]

41. and behind his back. i almost posted the same in another similar

thread...

[Bluebear]

51. -

[Mimosa]

45. Public plan health care is why I supported Obama.

Before he was elected Obama led us to believe in HOPE AND CHANGE!

[tbyg52]

50. I'm surprised it's still there.

Didn't a bunch of campaign stuff about gay civil rights disappear a while back? (Seriously, can someone with a better memory tell me if I am remembering this correctly?)

[peekaloo]

53. South American?

Yeah, that's it. A way of congratulating' Rio for the Olympics.

Foresight my friend!






*Idontreallyneedthesarcasmthingiedoi?*

[tonysam]

54. It's a public PLAN, not an OPTION

:sarcasm:

[Faryn Balyncd]

55. And, finally, here's the WORDING of that new public plan we all get to participate in: "Screw you!"

(We've chalked a "W", all that matters!! :sarcasm: )

[EVDebs]

59. Sign the petition at Yes We Still Can...don't kill the bill...go to conference committee !

http://yeswestillcan.org/

FDR said "I agree with you--make me do it." Let's make Barack and Rahm do what we sent them to do in the first place.

[Vidar]

60. K&R.

[Zhade]

61. Yep. He flat-out lied to our faces. He had no shame whatsoever in doing so.

I was already done with him, but this made others I know throw up their hands and say "fuck it" too.

We don't like being lied to at all.

[Laelth]

65. k&r for the truth. This bill is a very bad idea. n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[FLAprogressive]

67. The semanticrats are out in full force tonight. "He said PLAN not OPTION".

I say "poh-tay-to" you say "poh-ta-to"

[HughMoran]

69. I say Uranus, you say your anus

:rofl:

j/k

[Kansas Wyatt]

70. Who you gonna believe, Barack Obama or your lying eyes?

Hurry up Pom Pom Squad... ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!
:sarcasm:

[treestar]

73. that's what he WANTED

Surely you realized, even during the campaign, that congress would have to agree, too.

[uponit7771]

77. I don't blame Obama for the shortcomings of two senators but he does need to explain this part

[Odin2005]

79. WE HAVE BEEN BETRAYED!

[keep_it_real]

80. Was he lying? Or just saying it to get elected?

[LWolf]

83. I don't see the difference.

"Just saying it to get elected" IS lying, if you don't mean it.

[scentopine]

81. He's just trying to desensitize us. History says the best lies are still to come... -nt

[Bluebear]

82. Well ain't that a pleasant spectre, eh?