Concessions from a "This Ain't HCR" wingnut

[andyrowe]

Maybe it's all the Christmas programming I've absorbed as I lay here still recovering from strep throat, but (so help me baby pre-zombie Jesus) I've lost my will to continue to lambast DU for my view of the messy goal line finish to "HCR." It's time for me to put some things out there that have to be noticed.

The community health centers are an excellent idea. Teddy pushed 'em a while back if I remember right. They'll go a long way to providing better primary health service, particular to urban areas.

While I fear I'm right in that allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines is going to drive them all to move their HQ's to the least regulated state, it should at least make prices more stable nationwide and make the risk analysis less fuzzy. Who knows though?

The mandate crap would be crap if it were enforceable, but the clause immediately following its mention in the bill dispels this notion:

(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of 23 chapter 68.

The IRS will have your ass, etc, etc. All very predictable. UNTIL you read on to section (2):

(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.— In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section,such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/21/817417/-Devil-in-the-Details:-Mandate-not-mandatory">link

I feel the whole mandate clause still needs to be dropped, but at least there should be some clarity on what the actual mandate represents in the bill. It will make tax day even more fucktastic for you, but you're not going to be taken to jail and Geithner is not going to put a lien on your house.

And to those throwing around the idea that those of us who are more unhappy than happy with the bill can either swallow it or vote Repug are being absurd. I can stay in the tent and still make my opposition to our "successful policies" known, can't I?

The two worst things about this whole episode are the fallout in the future from the percieved failure that will stem from the actual results we will get (I'm predicting not 30 million, but only 3 to 8 million will get insurance as a result of this legislation and that with no real public option prices will at best somewhat stablilize, and at worst continue their unreal and unseemly climb), and hearing Obama say, "I didn't campaign on a public option." Even if this is true in it's sleazy, lawyerly, Clintonesque way, how do you think it makes all your union and UHC supporters feel to hear that? Don't you realize they'll remember that in '12?! You can bet they will (unless you erase the 10%+ unemployment or video surfaces on youtube of you slaying a dragon irl).

I made a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3U0YCbUwCU">psuedo-humorous video that conveys my initial angst over HCR that speculated as to Teddy's view of the blue dog compromises, and part of me feels slightly guilty about that part because at the end of the day I know Teddy himself wouldn't have been able to stop those sad compromises, and he would have still voted yes on this bill. And I still would have respected him.

Anyway, it's still quite ranty for an attempt to make ammends, but hey I tried baby pre-zombie Jesus. That should count for something.

[varelse]

1. You've managed to make me feel a teensy bit less depressed

I hope you will get well quickly :)

[andyrowe]

3. Thanks. If I made you feel better

then that makes me feel better.

[Bicoastal]

2. Thanks--there've been so few threads today with objective analysis...

...on both sides of the issue.

No one here seems to want to quote to the bill itself. It's all "FireDogLake said this RAAAAAAR" "Krugman said that GRROOOOAR" And yes, I count myself in there as well.

Nobody LIKES reading Government Legalese, but maybe it's about time we all bit the bullet and got it over with...

[andyrowe]

6. I can totally see that

I with there was a thread titled "FireDogLake said this RAAAAAAR". That would make me smile at least.

[ixion]

4. just because they can't take your house or property, doesn't mean they can't

make your life miserable.

I felt a little bit better when I read about the enforcement a couple days back, but in reality, if you don't pay the fine, you can expect heartache from the IRS, one way or the other.

[andyrowe]

7. That's always been true.

This bill at worst makes it only slightly more true.

[MineralMan]

12. That's nothing compared to what happens if you have a major

illness while uninsured. The IRS is a chump compared to medical collection companies. While lots of younger people get by fine with no health insurance, all it takes is a kid who falls off his bicycle and sustains a brain injury, or a wife with endometriosis at age 32, or getting slammed by some uninsured motorist at age 28 to absolutely ruin your life.

It happens on a daily basis.

[ixion]

14. no, the IRS is the grandad of all collection agencies

they have the power to do anything they want.

I was in a shop once that was raided by the IRS. They came in, closed the shop, seized the register and the books, and locked the whole place down.

Collection agencies can't do that.

[MineralMan]

15. But, the bill protects people from that, doesn't it?

The IRS audited my little company once. I had all the records of every transaction. I paid all the taxes that applied. They ended up refunding me about $2500. I just figure the answer is to do business in compliance with the tax laws. Seems to work pretty well.

Odds are that shop was failing to pay withholding on its employees. Lots of small businesses try that trick, which never really works.

So, a business that was breaking the law got shut down. No lawbreaking, and an audit is just a nuisance.

I have not heard of the IRS shutting down a business that followed the rules and paid its taxes. Just do what's right, pay your taxes, keep good books, and you're golden.

[johnaries]

5. Thank you for posting this. There are some good things, some

not-so-good things, and some "we'll just have to wait and see" things in this bill. And I'm like you - I'm afraid of the fallout because the bill doesn't go far enough. But I still support it because of the good things, and because it is, at least, a start.

And thank you for actually quoting the bill and using facts and reason. I am outraged that the PO was taken out, but that doesn't make me opposed to the rest of the bill.

[andyrowe]

8. Certainly.

I do what I can. Sometimes.

[timeforpeace]

9. Community health centers have been around for decades, treating the indigent, low income and those

without health insurance. Apparently they are operating under the public's radar for some reason.

[andyrowe]

10. So I take it

you don't like the federally funded primary health care facilities funded by this bill then?

[MineralMan]

13. These days, the sliding scale community clinic in Saint Paul

is completely overwhelmed. Yes, they exist, but they really can't cope with the number of people who need low-cost medical services.

[andyrowe]

17. Agreed.

[Land Shark]

11. You're reading the "enforcement" clause of the bill totally WRONG

It doesn't at all say it's not enforceable, only that enforcement will be dropped if somebody PAYS. In turn, that means that the government's resources for prosecutors will be wasted to chase "debtors" with criminal charges, all to be droppedif the government's full demand is met: PAY THE PRIVATE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS HANDSOMELY, EVERYONE.

Given that kind of a stick -- jail if you don't pay your debt to private insurance corporations -- most people will give a priority to the insurance payola higher than rent, mortgage, food, perhaps even children -- all to avoid the reality or the threat of not only jail time, but also the expense, hassle and stress of merely contemplating one's own criminal defense, not to mention hiring a lawyer....

To the contrary, the threat of jail is very real (though designed to go away when the government's purpose of satisfying the insurance monopoly is satisfied) and it's very powerful and effective. Counties around the country are presently using sheriff's deputies to collect on routine bad checks (all of them, indiscriminately) and I can say it is extremely intimidating -- and highly effective. And highly illegal, I'd add, except nobody's wanted to pop for the $250000 or so to take up on appeal a bad check sherriff's-collection case that is at bottom worth less than a hundred or so bucks.

Similarly, even just posting the bail bond after one's arrest for nonpayment of health care insurance might already put one over the edge in terms of "not being worth it" to fight the collection system...

[andyrowe]

16. kicked for the night owls

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