The Terrible Advice: Never Talk to the Police

[paulsby]

that's one of those mantras i hear get repeated here (specifically regarding people who are possible suspects. obviously victims and witnesses should talk to police, unless you are a "stop snitching" nutcase)...

but in 20 yrs of law enforcement experience, i have seen PERSONALLY literally hundreds of examples where it's simply bad advice, and people helped themselves by telling the truth. if you are guilty as hell, it's generally a bad idea to speak to the police when questioned as a suspect (although not always... see gary ridgway for instance), but even that's not always true.

but i am specifically referring to cases where you are innocent.

here's my christmas story from last night.

christmas eve we get a call from one of our "frequent flyers", we'll call "joe". he's complaining about our ULTIMATE frequent flyer, a woman i will call sarah. sarah gets fall down drunk most nights, and often calls police with bogus complaints. she has about as much credibility as a three dollar bill.

well tonight, joe is calling. seems he is reporting that sarah was standing outside his trailer and yelling at him, in clear violation of a protective order, which we verified as served. not only did joe claim this, but his mother claimed this as well.

they made the call to police at 6:30 pm, so obviously it happened prior to that.

we arrive and inspect the order, interview the two , and develop probable cause. for sarah to do something like this is not at all out of character for her. she has little respect for the law, or other people.

we arrest sarah. i advise her of her rights. she claims she was at church until 7:00 pm. (we arrived about 7:15 pm and it is now 7:30). thus, it woudl be impossible for her to have committed the order violation.

we find two witnesses, including the pastor's WIFE, who saw her at church. she gets unarrested. joe gets written up for giving a false material statement, and sarah now has ammunition to get hte order (it's a temporary order that hasn;'t gone to hearing yet) lifted.

here's my point. if she had just shut up when she was arrested and advised of her rights, she would have spent (at least) the night in jail. with her priors, maybe a couple of days before they ROR'd her. ON CHRISTMAS of all times.

but because she did the RIGHT thing, she was innocent, and she explained why, the REAL criminal is getting punished, and heck ... she could probably sue him.

the moral: the advice that you should never talk to police is poor advice. it's situation dependent, even if arrested, as this case demoonstrates. selection bias comes into play because most defense lawyers, and most people ONLY see cases where people get in trouble and dig themselves a deeper hole by talking. they don't see ALL the other times when people avoid even an arrest (let alone a trial) because they give an explanation. heck, i was pulled over at gunpoint as an armed robbery suspect. i told them the truth and i was let go (wrong place, wrong time, and in a car very similar to the actual suspect).

that's my christmas story.

[TexasObserver]

1. Thanks, but no thanks!

If you want an exception for every day drunks who always call cops about everything wrong in the lives, fine. But for most citizens, if they're accused of something by police, they're better off NOT talking to police. As long as there is no confession, there is a chance of winning the case. If the person confesses, or gives the police something the police can mischaracterize (which they often do, whether by intent or inability to comprehend properly what they heard), that person has a difficult time prevailing.

Your solution is short term and depends upon (1) the police following up immediately on the info, and (2) believing you.

Thanks, but no thanks!

Folks, if you want to get arrested, listen to a cop. If you want to get out of jail, keep your mouth shut, don't talk to police or cell mates, call a bail bondsman, and call a lawyer.

[paulsby]

2. if you want to listen to somebody who has

ACTUAL experience in this matter, then listen to me.

if you want to listen to somebody who is opining from a position of ignorance, listen to you...

hth

[TexasObserver]

4. Cops follow instructions from other cops.

Cops typically don't know or understand the Bill of Rights. They disrespect the constitution they're supposed to enforce and seek to get suspects to give up their rights. Listening to a cop will get a citizen in much trouble.

[paulsby]

6. wow. bigotry exposed

thanks for playing.

never ceases to amaze me the way the bigots come out when you mention cops.

it's no different than mentioning blacks to a bunch of KKK members.

the senseless, lying, bigoted vitriol comes right out.

thanks for exposing yourself

[TexasObserver]

9. Many cops actively violate the constitution daily. Do you deny this?

Do you deny that police are taught how to intimidate drivers and other citizens who assert their constitutional rights?

I invite you to read the writings of any well known cop turned author, and you'll see them say clearly that every cop has lied on the witness stand, that every cop lies to make probable cause at one time or another. These are super cops like Wambaugh, of course, or Serpico.

[MineralMan]

54. You know, I'm getting pretty tired of your "hate all cops"

advice. You're wrong, you know. I'm more used to seeing the type of arguments you raise on another site, not here.

[TexasObserver]

56. I'm getting pretty tired of your personal attacks.

Your comments are the type typically seen on other sites, not this one. Unlike you, I don't frequent that other site. I wouldn't waste my time at such a site, and have been a Democrat for 40 years, not 1 year, as you claim you've been.


THIS site favors constitutional rights over police oppression. If you want to be a champion of police excess, there are probably message boards where that bias exists.

[MineralMan]

60. Where did I claim to be a Democrat for 1 year?

I've been a democrat since 1963, when I turned 18. I made no personal attack. I said that I was tired of "hate all cops" posts. That's my opinion. Yours is, apparently, different.

[TexasObserver]

64. Didn't you join here a year ago and claim you'd left Free Republic after years & years there?

You accused me of making a post that you suggested belonged at that other site. I pointed out that you have that history, not me. It's not as if I'm dredging it up. You have it in your profile. You want people to know you had a long, long membership at Free Republic.

If you've been a Democrat for 40 years, being a proud member at Free Republic for years and posting over 20,000 times there (as you have stated) is a strange way to evidence it. I'd never even heard of Free Republic when I started lurking here 3 years ago. I still don't read the threads about them, because I don't care about the human waste that belongs to that site.

My posts are about constitutional rights and how they are violated. You literally have no concept of the primacy of constitutional rights, however, and don't respect them.

[MineralMan]

69. Yes, I was at Free Republic for some time. I posted there many

times, all in an attempt to inject a different voice on subjects like evolution, political reality, and to call Freeper ideas into question. In the statement in my profile, I state specifically that I have never been a Republican or any sort of conservative. I left there in 2006, leaving behind a departing message that makes it clear how I feel. I joined Democratic Underground in 2008, it is true. I find it a much better fit for me, and I no longer care what freepers thing, except to try to keep track of what they are saying. It is only on very rare occasions that I discuss what is going on there.

One of the common memes at that site is that the police are never to be trusted. You wouldn't know that, since you never go there. Freepers hate all authority, and especially the police. They also use the "constitutional rights" argument.

As for constitutional rights, I have defended those for the entire time I have been an adult. I don't see how the assumption that all police officers want to deny you your rights is any sort of defense of constitutional rights. I'm a student of the Constitution, and embrace the entire document, not just those parts that are convenient.

While I recognize that some police officers do wrong things, and object to those situations just as vociferously as I object to putting all police officers into the same ugly box, it is by no means the majority of police officers who wish to do something bad to you.

I have made no personal attack against you. I have merely disagreed with your opinion on a subject or two. I realize that you have not read all my posts here. I post often, because I enjoy participating in political discussions.

We disagree on some topics. Nothing remarkable about that. There is much disagreement on DU. Disagreement, however, does not constitute personal attack. When I say I'm tired of something, that is my opinion, and my opinion only.

[MineralMan]

74. One further note: It appears that you have been here only

a few months longer than I have. I guess that's not really an issue, given the number of DUers who have been here almost 10 years. You are also an active poster. I will not ask where you posted before you came here, because that is irrelevant. What you post here is what is relevant.

[billh58]

113. LOL! That's

really laughable coming from you, with your propensity for personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you. Good one bubba...;-)

[Saboburns]

93. Well Paul I gotta a story to tell

My ex stole my checkbook and debit card and emptied my checking account out to the tune of 2,100.00 I had to file a police report to get some of my money back.

2 months later I GOT ARRESTED FOR MAKING A FALSE STATEMENT> I GOT ARRESTED!!

Seems she had a sexual relation with another state trooper which LED TO MY ARREST. That's right, she stole off me AND I GOT ARESTED.

That's not uncomman in this little town which has 10 state troopers in a detachment. NOBODY has any oversight over these guys.

It's fukking horrible here.

[tabasco]

140. It's America. We don't lick jackboots.

If you don't like that - move to fucking China.

[billh58]

21. You are obviously

biased about the general conduct and makeup of police officers. My experience has been just the opposite of yours, and I am quite certain that your low opinion of police officers is a minority view among law abiding citizens. In my experience, those who bash all police officers all of the time, either have priors, or have a problem with authority in general. In either case, they are a poor source of advice for law-abiding citizens.

Are ALL members of ANY organization of professionals 100% perfect? Of course not, but modern day police departments do a very good job of weeding out the misfits at an early stage, and usually before they are hired.

I totally agree with the OP: if the law is on your side, your best course of action is to be open and honest with a police officer should the need arise. If you have broken the law, being a wise-ass during the arrest phase will NOT help your case when you appear before a judge.

[TexasObserver]

26. I care about innocent people going to prison.

You're a guy who thinks police are good guys who save kittens and never abuse anyone.

I don't even get traffic tickets, so your asinine supposition is as faulty as your reasoning.

You give bad advice on this topic, and I hope readers don't listen to you. If they're in trouble the last person they need to listen to is a guy who thinks the cops would never think HE did something illegal.

[billh58]

32. Meh..

I believe that people can make their own decisions about police officers. I believe what I have seen with my own eyes in the course of 68 years on this planet, and would advise fellow DU-ers not to listen to the highly opinionated likes of you. In my experience, most police officers are dedicated, caring, and professional agents of the law, and my few "official" experiences with them have all been positive. Of course, it goes without saying that anyone who has actually been arrested should seek legal counsel -- especially if that person is guilty.

I have an adult son who became an ice addict, and subsequently became a common thief. Several members of the local police force kept me and my wife informed of his run-ins with the law, treated him fairly, and followed up with us after he was released from prison. Over the years I have been personal friends with several police officers, including a few from other countries, and to a person they have all been upstanding citizens and caring individuals.

Bashing ALL police officers based on biased and bigoted opinion of a few experiences is sad. Advising others to mimic your hatred and distrust is even sadder.

[TexasObserver]

33. I care about the Bill of Rights, which you don't care about.

I've been a lawyer for over 30 years. I've watched civil and constitutional rights get beaten down by fascists the past 30 years. That's why we have the largest prison population in the world: well meaning fools who believe everything a police officer tells them.

Naive, gullible citizens are the reason so many innocent men have been wrongly convicted of heinous crimes they didn't commit. Citizens who lap up everything the police tell them routinely convict on bad or perjured testimony. "Why would a police officer lie?" they always (wrongly) reason.

Save your preaching for someone who cares about that sort of sappy testimonial.

[billh58]

111. Ah, that explains a lot:

I have been shafted many times by seedy lawyers (especially those who become politicians), and never once by a police officer. Seems to me that Shakespeare said something about lawyers that has resonated throughout the ages...

You, and those like you who choose to label an entire group of dedicated public servants as evil and corrupt, are beyond pathetic. As I mentioned previously there are rotten apples in every profession, and in my experience the ones who are the most vitriolic and venomous are the ones to watch out for. You seem to fit that description perfectly, and do a disservice to your already questionable "profession." Incidentally, I believe it was lawyers who obtained the many "wrongful convictions," you mention, wasn't it?

You may continue to use your ad hominem snark to attack me for countering your hate-mongering with the truth, but the vast majority of law-abiding citizens have absolutely nothing to fear from 99.9% of police officers in the United States. Your biased opinions do nothing to change the facts.

The next time a police officer is killed by some punk while he or she is upholding the law, why don't you pull a Fred Phelps and go protest at their funeral. That would seem to be in character with your message of hate and fear.

Buh bye bubba...;-)

[TexasObserver]

114. Shakespeare's words were a warning about those who hate lawyers.

Shakespeare had a character called Dick the Butcher, an evil man, who was a fascist. He's the character who spoke the words which you and your ilk wrongly think is an indictment of lawyers. It's a indictment of fascist dunderheads. Dick the Butcher said "the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." He did so because lawyers represent a system of laws, because they fight for causes and for citizens, because they challenge tyrants and fascist dunderheads.

If you knew the first thing about History, you'd know the critical role the legal system has played in the British and American political developments the past 800 years.

As I've said, OUR side favors the constitution. If you're a cheerleader for police excess, which you certainly appear to be, you're not a progressive. You're also not very thoughtful or informed, but you've learned to live with those limitations, I'm sure.

[billh58]

125. I have no beef

with you personally bubba, and yes I know the origin of Shakespeare's words, and the character he used to say them. I was being facetious.

I have been shafted by more attorneys than by police officers over the years, and I have friends from both professions. Your characterization of all police officers as corrupt with evil intentions is just not factually true, and does a gross disservice to the vast majority of them who serve honorably. Most public defenders and criminal defense attorneys are also dedicated and honest members of the legal system, with a few notable exceptions.

I am not a cheerleader for illegal behavior of any kind, by anyone, and have been involved in private security and loss prevention for over 30 years. I do not have a degree in the law, but I do have a working knowledge of the daily operations of police officers, public defenders, and the criminal justice system in Hawaii. In my personal experience, most police officers have been dedicated, professional, and honest. Many of them are active in community service outside of their jobs.

Your obvious vitriol, general message of hate and fear, propensity to attack those who do not agree with you, and make false accusations against them, lead me to believe that you do not represent a majority of those of us who truly DO believe in the sanctity of the Constitution of the United States of America. As a combat veteran, I have seen the face of true fascism, and the public servants of the United States do NOT fit the description. Not even close...

[TexasObserver]

129. You're a mall cop. Fine.

That explains your slavish devotion to police and your lack of any concept of respect for the rights of the accused.

Get out there and catch those holiday shoplifters!!

[billh58]

133. Actually, I am

a security and risk management consultant to some of the top 50 companies in Hawaii, and am not "slavish" to anyone. Now go chase an ambulance bubba...;-)

[Obamanaut]

50. +1 nt

[JonLP24]

55. TexasObserver made a good point

Cops specifically detectives are trained on how to be deceptive to influence a suspect to waive his/her 5th amendment rights. One way is for the detective to lead on more than he/she really knows to get the suspect to begin talking.

A good example of what I'm talking about is to watch the First 48.

[sendero]

70. Yeah..

... and assuming the one you are "talking" to isn't out to railroad you is an assumption that many innocent prisoners made.

Anyone thinking of taking YOUR BAD ADVICE should watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[Posteritatis]

47. I love how quickly logic flies right out the window on these sorts of discussions

"This person disagrees with me! That means their views are automatically the extreme opposite straw-man interpretation of what I believe!"

Whaaaatever.

[Caliman73]

149. I think that part of the problem is that some police have abused and do abuse their authority.

Some police may also be following the law, but do so with an attitude that is hostile. Police are human and have a really difficult job. Being human means being flawed. Some are just plain jerks. Some are crooked. Some are really great people. Most are somewhere in between on any given day.

However, I think another big reason is that people often only see police when something bad has happened and it is pretty much a "no win" for the officer. The police are either there because you have done or are suspected of doing something illegal, or they are there because something illegal has been done to you. Either way it is not a happy time. If you are the suspect, then you see the police as adversary. They are there to get you. If you are the victim, then the police are just bureaucrats who don't care about what happened to you, and are just going to sweep things under the rug. We have our biases, fears, and expectations that create the concept of what police are.

I think either extreme is wrong. Police aren't just jackbooted thugs who are there to harass people. Nor are they the knights in shining armor standing in between unspeakable terror and a comfy life. They are people who are paid and trained to do a tough job with varying levels of success and varying levels of professionalism.

[merh]

18. And your experience is one sided.

[Greyhound]

110. I'll stick with the advice of ACTUAL attorneys who have even more experience

than you do, and who's experience is from the side not trying to build a case against me.

[varelse]

138. Anonymous internet-based entity claiming to be a police officer

trumps the advice of a law professor and an experienced police detective? I don't think so.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865#

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&hl=en&emb=1

Nice try though :)

[katkat]

16. you got that right

A cop wants you to talk. No sensible person faced with anything serious or anything that could turn into something serious talks without the advice of an attorney.

p.s. Never arrested or charged with anything, but I've read and seen plenty of news photos of cops beating and even killing innocent people in my neck of the woods, which is not a ghetto but a rural mostly low income area, and getting off scot free.

[TexasObserver]

19. The assumption that all cops are well meaning and thorough is wrong.

Many cops are quick to decide who they think is a bad guy, and once they believe that, they line up everything to fit that. They know how to draft a report to make a case they can't really make with the real facts. That fiasco with the Harvard professor is a good example of what many cops do every day in America. They make arrests because they know "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."

Sometimes they'll lie and tell you something to get you to agree with them, or give them info, or give them info on someone else.

[sendero]

71. Anyone who doesn't believe that..

... should acquaint themselves with the HUGE NUMBER of DEATH ROW INMATES who were RAILROADED by the police and DA who have now been PROVEN INNOCENT by DNA testing.

[billh58]

112. Wrongful convictions

are perpetrated by lawyers, and NOT police officers. See how that works...?

[TexasObserver]

115. You're not right about anything that relates to this topic.

Police make the case. Prosecutors present the case. Prosecutors don't testify, but cops do. Prosecutors share culpability, but if there's evidence fabricated or perjured testimony given, it's police, not prosecutors, doing that dirty deed.

Wrongful convictions rest first upon bad police work or dirty police work. Without it, no prosecutor ever sees the case.

[billh58]

128. Uh, not exactly true

bubba. In most jurisdictions police officers present their evidence to a prosecutor, and he or she makes the decision to proceed with the case, or not. Many cases are never pursued due to a "lack of evidence," or based on the prosecutor's decision that the case is "too weak."

Sorry, but your one-man crusade to demonize ALL police officers falls flat due to a glaring lack of evidence.

[TexasObserver]

130. The prosecutor always makes the decision whether to prosecute.

But they do so based upon the case the police present. If police LIE about a part of the case - which happens all the time - the case relies upon that deceit.

[billh58]

135. There you go again with

the "happens all the time" broad-brush bullshit again. I might buy into "some of the time," but your use of hyperbole is more suited to the courtroom than in an honest debate about the facts bubba.

[TexasObserver]

147. Don't you have a 13 year old to arrest for stealing a lighter?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. EVERYBODY LISTEN: THE OP IS A COP. THE OP IS LIKE ADVICE FROM NESTLÉ ABOUT BREAST MILK VS. FORMULA.

[Obamanaut]

72. OK. MESSAGE RECEIVED. N/T reduces volume

[MineralMan]

77. Uh, shouting does not make your point any stronger.

The Caps Lock key does not create truth...it only makes what you say appear loud.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

83. I wanted it to be loud. Just this once.

I'm not a Caps Lock abuser.

[MineralMan]

92. That trick never works.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

94. Well, it worked with you. -nt

[MineralMan]

96. Not really. I just noticed that you were shouting. I'd have to

go back and look to see what it was you said. All I saw was the shouting.

[Raineyb]

120. +1

Never take advice about talking to cops from another cop. That's like taking advice about organic gardening from the makers of garden chemicals.

[wuvuj]

68. I can vouch for that...

I was arrested one time and "taken downtown". About the first thing that happened was a "plant" sits down next to me wanting me to tell him all about it...some guy in the "drunk tank" took a risk and told me to shut up. Eventually I was taken into an interview room where a cop lays a gun on the table expecting me to pick it up and put my prints on it...when they specifically had a rule that all guns were to be secured.

Ask yourself this question? Who else knows more as to what the laws are and how to break them and get away with it?

[WeDidIt]

88. Absolutely, NEVER TRUST A COP OR TALK TO A COP

Cops are professional liars.

[safeinOhio]

3. A lawyer and a cop agree

never, ever talk to the cops. I might add, if there is a serious crime. If they tell you, you are not a suspect, ask for immunity in writing, if granted go ahead.
I had a criminal law prof years ago that worked homicide in NY city for 20 years. He said in that time he had only 2 suspects that refused to talk and both walked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fqw4l0CAT0

As these videos show, even if innocent you can be tricked into sounding guilty. There is no law requiring the police to tell the truth, only you. They can say they have 20 people that saw you do the crime and they are willing to cut a deal with you when they have no one that saw the crime. Not all police are that way, however for any reason like they might just not like you, they are lazy or they just want to close a case, you can end up in trouble.

[paulsby]

5. yes, i've seen that

and they are wrong.

fwiw, i've had many defense attorney say they agree with me.

i had one defense attorney say he tells his clients to never talk to the police, if questioned.

i asked him "what if they are innocent" and he's like "you're kidding me right?" (which was actually very funny) but he explained that the reason that advice is sound is that most of his clients are usually guilty as fuck and dumb as rocks. for THEM, it IS good advice. he agreed that in the case of the innocent, it's often the right advice TO talk to the police.

let me give you another example. you borrow your gf's car.

you get locked out.

you are using a coathanger to break in, when the cop pulls up. you are standing there IN THE PROCESS of breaking intoa car NOT registered to you.

he starts questioning you. do you tell the truth, or say nothing?

hth

[Pithlet]

148. It's obvious that there are certain clearly defined situations where saying something will help.

Situations where you're clearly in the right, where you know the other party will not prosecute. But cops should not be trusted to be on your side. If you're making that contention, then I'm sorry. I'm not going to buy it. Plenty of people have thought so and have been burned. It's a fact. If I'm in a situation where I'm being accused, I'm not talking without an attorney. I think that's solid advice.

[safeinOhio]

8. Great example

http://www.innocenceproject.org/


The work of Innocence Network member organizations led to 27 exonerations in 2009. The 27 exonerees served a total of 421 years in prison for crimes they didn't commit, and their cases reveal deep flaws in the criminal justice system that must be addressed.

These are just crime that had DNA for evidence, thin

[JNelson6563]

46. Why do I get the feeling that the OP

will be immune to the facts presented on that vid by a cop and a lawyer?

[joeunderdog]

139. I might add...

If you're in an accident, NEVER talk to an insurance agent from the other side. You are under no obligation to EVER do so. They will try to screw you.

[The Straight Story]

7. As a former LEO myself I can certainly agree with this part:

"it's situation dependent"

[sandnsea]

10. If you can't say the pastor is my alibi

Then don't talk to cops. Better?

Seriously, nobody is saying don't clarify a simple situation. But if there is anything that could involve serious jail time - don't talk to cops.

Only you know how many lies you've told "in the line of duty". It's your job. Fine. Protecting our freedom is our job.

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. I don't buy that shit.

Had I not been forthcoming and respectful with Highway Patrolmen, State Troopers, County Sheriffs, and Police Officers, I wouldn't have driven or walked away from literally dozens of situations where I'd earned a moving violation or much worse.

I don't run with the "fuck authority" crowd. Perhaps I come from a different time, even though I'm only 48 years old.

Happy Holidays

[MineralMan]

78. It's not your age or the time. It's just common sense.

Being calm, polite, and truthful with police officers is generally the best way to proceed, assuming that you have not done something seriously illegal. If you have done something seriously illegal, then the advice to shut up and call an attorney is good advice. Otherwise, not so much. A calm demeanor, and calm speech will generally deal with a situation, if you have done nothing seriously wrong.

It may also cause a police officer to skip writing you a ticket. It has for me a few times in my 48 years of driving. I have had just one traffic ticket, back in 1972. I don't plan to have any more.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

12. This is a ridiculous example for the

do the right think and give up your rights argument. A chronic "frequent flyer" and substance abuser avoids a night in the tank is not a good enough.
Cops are professionals at what they do. People should ALWAYS hire a professional when dealing with them regarding a criminal matter.

[Kaleva]

13. If I'm guilty, talking to the police would be a bad idea.

But if I'm innocent, I don't see any reason why I should remain silent.

[merh]

20. Perhaps you should go read up on the conviction and impeachment

of former US District Judge Walter Nixon.

[Kaleva]

30. I know most of the cops in my area...

and if I suddenly clamed up, they would surely think I had done something.

[merh]

87. That speaks more towards the suspicious nature of the cops

than it does to a rational reason for ignoring a constitutional protection.

[me b zola]

36. Is that a direct quote from the Bill of Rights?

[MineralMan]

81. No. That was what is called "common sense."

It works great, about 99.9% of the time. In the other .1%, an attorney may be required.

[me b zola]

137. I prefer the "common sense" of the founders

who drafted the Bill of Rights.

[JTFrog]

39. Follow the first link in post #25. This has nothing to do with being guilty or innocent.

It has to do with the way that the words that come out of your mouth can be used against you regardless of your involvement or non-involvement in a situation.

There are excellent examples of how the 5th amendment protects the innocent discussed in the video in post #25.

[LeftyMom]

14. Pull the other one so they're even, would you?

[merh]

15. You have the right to remain silent

Exercising your rights is a very good thing and people should take their rights seriously.

The safeguards are provided for a reason, the right to remain silent is not a cliche.

[safeinOhio]

17. A few years ago I was divorced from my

wife that was a cop at the time. She filed several false reports about me. My lawyers, I had to hire several including a criminal lawyer, all told me if I have any dealings with her department, say nothing and call them. She used her job as a weapon against me in a civil matter. She lost her job because of her antics. She had told me that as a "professional courtesy" her fellow deputies would fuck with me.
Not all cops are bad and evil. There are some out there and you can not deny that. If there is any question, I would advice to speak to a lawyer. There is never any hurry. The truth never changes. If they really have nothing on you, they'd be fools to book you. If they do, call a lawyer.

[TexasObserver]

22. Yes, misuse of the position in domestic disputes is a chronic problem.

You have touched on what is one of the biggest problems with law enforcement nationwide: the abuse by police of their authority when dealing with an ex - whether they were married or not. Many, many women have been stalked by their ex boyfriend cop or their ex husband cop. It's a huge problem, and not surprising that female officers can abuse their power similarly.

[safeinOhio]

24. So you are saying there is no need for the average citizen

to have Fifth Amendment rights. Then you'll argue to death anyone that would say the same about Second Amendment rights. I plan on taking advantage of all of my constitutional rights. 5th and 2nd and 4th. I'm polite and cooperate with the police in every encounter and have never had a problem, mostly because I am a law abiding person. However, I never give up my rights including the 4th. I've had cops ask if they could search my car. I've told them I prefer that they don't. Those words have never caused me a problem and they have never searched my car. I do not just "give" up my rights. People have fought and died for them.

[TexasObserver]

27. You posted to yourself. Where does that post go?

[safeinOhio]

59. Sorry, to the OP

[TexasObserver]

66. I brought it up so you could repost it as a response to the OP.

If you want to do so.

[MineralMan]

85. Searches are another issue, of course, and have little to

do with "not talking to the police."

Personally, I am always 100% aware of what is in my vehicle, and I'm always 100% certain that there is nothing illegal in my vehicle. I've been asked twice in my life if my vehicle could be searched. I've always said, "OK." In neither case was the vehicle actually searched. I said "OK" because no search would have discovered anything illegal.

Both occasions were at border crossings, where any vehicle can be searched legally. These days, another place where police may search any vehicle is at airports. That's worth thinking about if you're taking someone to the airport. It truly is.

[uncle ray]

105. it is impossible for you to be 100% sure you have nothing illegal in your vehicle.

besides, the point is NOT whether or not you have anything illegal in your possession, it is that when you grant permission for a search, you are waiving your rights, when you talk to a cop, you are waiving your rights, so if you DO end up charged and in court, you have little recourse left if wrongly accused. it doesn't matter if you think you are a law abiding citizen who has done nothing wrong, anybody could be falsely accused because of items in their possession.

i've been rightly and wrongly accused of crimes, the police don't know or care if you are guilty or not, so it's best not to help them make their case regardless of your own assessment of guilt or innocence.

i've granted permission for searches exactly twice as well, for the same reason, border crossing, with the vehicle reeking of pot and full of stoned young adults.

[Onceuponalife]

23. Never verbally talk to cops

but hand signals are okay.

[Liberal In Texas]

25. Talking to the police is FOOLISH! Watch this ...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865&ei=-7o1S7KmM5m8qQLQvd3oCg&q=don%27t+talk+to+the+police&hl=en#

Then this by a POLICE OFFICER:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865&ei=-7o1S7KmM5m8qQLQvd3oCg&q=don%27t+talk+to+the+police&hl=en#docid=6014022229458915912

[diamidue]

126. Those are great links.

I have shared those videos with a lot of people. It is not about distrusting law enforcement. It is just about knowing how to protect yourself from misunderstandings, etc. When one side (the police, the legal system, the military, etc) has all the power, it is easy to be intimidated and not think clearly when confronted by them. These videos really help show how easy it is to get tangled up in the system, just by speaking at the wrong time.

[galileoreloaded]

28. Dude, I spend time at "other" boards, and even those troglodytes

know that you NEVER invite the man into your life. Nothing good will ever come of it.

[OutNow]

29. Good Advice - Never Talk to the Cops

DU is mostly about politics, not about unfortunate folks who have a drinking problem. So to the people who frequent DU, I say NEVER TALK TO THE COPS.

If you engage in any political activism, there's a good chance that the PTB won't like what you're doing. And they will try to stop you, distract you, scare you, and/or investigate you. Whether you are organizing a peace march against the war in Iraq or walking in a picket line during a strike or riding your bicycle with a large group of your friends, the PTB won't like it. One of the agents of the PTB are the cops. They can detain you, question you, arrest you, or beat you to a bloody pulp like Mayor Daley's storm troopers did in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic Convention.

It is always a good idea to know your constitutional rights, and always a good idea to use them even when the cops are in clear violation of said rights.

I have experience in this area too. 40 years worth of experience, with a copy of my FBI file obtained via a lawsuit against the FBI in the 1970s (we won that suit and the federal judge ruled that the FBI and local cops violated our rights) and 6 stitches in my head from a baton welding cop on horseback in Frank Rizzo's Philadelphia. BTW - in that case the cops broke up a legal demonstration and we went to court for that case and won too.

But hey, who are you going to listen to about using your constitutional right to remain silent, a cop or a peace activist who has been arrested over a dozen times for lawful political behavior?

[dysfunctional press]

31. "...she could probably sue him."

but a jury would be MUCH MORE sympathetic to her if she had been wrongly locked up over christmas...$$cha-ching$$.

i'll stick with the advice given me by my lawyer before he was assassinated(by mistake) "you don't talk to cops...you talk to ME."

[ixion]

34. You have the Right to remain silent, and the Right to have an attorney present

during questioning.

There are good reasons why it's that way.

[TexasObserver]

124. Ron White: "I had the RIGHT, but not the good sense, to remain silent."

comedian from Texas

[baldguy]

35. Best advice my asshole cop RW uncle ever gave: When dealing with cops, don't volunteer anything.

[JTFrog]

37. Fuck that.

I've had waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many first hand experiences that say you're a cop who's blowing smoke up my ass.

[NNN0LHI]

44. You got that right

The police are our friends.

Yea sure.

Don

[L0oniX]

102. +1000

[cornermouse]

38. I don't know what planet you live on.

But on my planet, newspaper accounts of police use of tasers on local people are becoming more common. When my child first got custody of the grandchild, due to abuse, I took her to the police table at the fair because I could tell from the language she was using that her image of the police was not good (due to her mother's activities). I wanted her to have a more positive image of the police and to know that if she needed help she should look for a policeman. After seeing accounts of local taser use (what appears to be overuse to me. The people they used it on didn't appear to be capable of being a threat) since then would I still do that? No, I would not. Nor will I do it for any future grandchildren and I don't have a record and haven't ever done anything to even be a suspect for anything.

[JonLP24]

40. It depends on experience

Based on mine I prefer not to. I was really in a wrong place, wrong time moment myself when I was 17.

Just half of block where I am now I was visiting a friend. She told me she was going to her aunt's house for an hour and I planned on returning. Anyways I head out to the back parking lot because it was a quick wall hop to where I live rather then going out the entrance. A younger acquaintance came around and parked a white car. With time to kill before I go back I decided to spend some time with him.

So with him for some reason we decide to walk to the entrance and as we head out the front gate--apartments--there was an older man with a red shirt confronting us but the younger teen I was with was just taunting him but I thought nothing of it and had no idea what was going on. As we head down the street he handed me a pack of Camels with 3 cigarettes to carry because he was wearing basketball shorts with no pockets while I was wearing jeans I decided to--this is key, it will come up later. We also ran into a friend along the way with a backup of liquor so we decided to go with him to another friend's house and drink for awhile.

As we made it around the block about half a block awhile from the house there is a police car with a spotlight on us--it's night. Anyways all 3 of us stop and they line us up on the curb. The two cops speak to me and the acquaintance separately I tell him what I just told you minus the guy with liquor in his backpack where he was irrelevant to the situation. After they get done they put both of us in handcuffs and let the guy with the backpack go--they had no reason to search as he wasn't with us originally.

Now I have no clue why I am in handcuffs I start demanding why and the cops said the acquaintance said I was in the car with him I was mentioned in the opening paragraph. I repeatedly tell the officer "No I wasn't" and I was shouted down with comments like "dumbass", "liar", "shut up" and various curse words and disrespectful language.

Anyways the cops return us to spot where me and the acquaintance meant and for some reason the man in the red shirt that spotted us at the entrance said I was with him. I have no idea why he would say that as I wasn't in the car. Apparently the younger teen I was with is 15 and had no business driving and rammed a hole into the side of the complex. Since he was using the car of an adult he knew we were facing a GTA charge. So the cops ask me why would either of them lie and I say "I don't know" but I'm trying to stress them the truth as much as I could.

So the older guy where the teen got the car from comes outside and says those cigarettes that the teen gave me were his. So the cops ask me if those were my cigarettes and I said 'no the teen gave them to me.' So they ask the acquaintance whose cigarettes those were and he said they were mine. So with that since the cigarettes were inside his home on the stand I was facing a charge of breaking and entering and burglary for 3 lousy cigarettes. Here's the kicker, the teen's grandma runs out there frantically and upset and the cops say to her, "You should be proud of your grandson, he told the truth unlike him"-- meaning me.

So after the guy deliberated with himself he decided not to press charges--in hindsight I sure wish he would have. So the cops let me go and charge me with 'minor possession of tobacco products' since I was 17 not yet 18. That night I went to try to explain to the guy what happened and he said "Go away, no liars are welcomed around here."

Days later the guy got my side of the story just like I told you and he confronted the teen with what I said and he folded because I never had access to his house plus of the fact I was with a friend moments before I ran into him that he lived 2O ft away from. The guy told me he was "this close--finger and thumb about an inch apart-- to pressing charges" and said he would explain the situation at my case hearing with the tobacco charge but he moved before the date.

The point I made with is based on the experience of me actually talking they didn't believe a word and insulted, cursed at, etc. Cops are really not helpful here, the day they awarded Mario Madrigal Jr's family with a million dollar lawsuit for a wrongful death case they were caught on video slamming a man's head into the hood of a police car in the parking lot. I will not talk again if a similar situation occurs. If Sheriff Joe's team--Maricopa Co police, the story I described involved the Mesa City Police- decides to stop me to wonder what I'm doing in my own complex which happened a year and a half ago I'll tell them 'I'm going fucking home' and show them my ID.

If you are wondering about the younger teen he has mental issues and I'm not using that disparagingly. He would come over to my home unannounced many times and forced his away inside and spend all day with me despite me asking him to leave several times and to go away. One day he called '911' on my phone and handed it to me. I was on the phone with the operator and I give the lame I tried to dial '411' excuse and that prompted the operator to ask me if I was suffering my 'mental issues'. The other teen with the liquor, his dad once caught him pissing on his bush but the 'acquaintance' tried to blame it on me but he saw him. I can't stress enough how many problems he caused me in that short period of my life.

Now as far as your 'stop snitching' people I'm not sure what you mean. Not telling on others as a long history that is in all aspects of life. It could be when you're young with your siblings and one of you breaks a piece of furniture and none would tell the parent. Also I remember growing up tattle-telling was a no-no often told by teachers and parents. Also there is what is known as a blue wall of silence in police departments that create situations such as the Rampart/C.R.A.S.H scandal. Or there is no "snitching" in the White House or Military Affairs. You think anyone that worked in the White House in the previous administration is telling us of all there are crimes. It's not limited to criminals or witnesses. In fact the 'Stop Snitchin' video identified and led to the arrest of corrupt Baltimore Police Officers selling drugs so in turn they were actually 'snitchin' but on Police Officers. So the idea of not telling is something that surrounds us all in many professions. Like many of us are not going to tell the boss if a co-worker took a slightly longer break or lunch. I'll close unless it's something horrific like the kid napping of a child or murder/plot than in that case I will say something. If I notice someone selling crack I probably won't say anything.

Sorry for the long rant.

[thenooch]

41. hmmnnnnn

"not only did joe claim this, but his mother claimed this as well."

"we find two witnesses, including the pastor's WIFE, who saw her at church. she gets unarrested. joe gets written up for giving a false material statement"


So you value the word of the Pastor's wife more than the word of Joe's mother...I get that. Because we all know pastors and their wives would never lie. cough....Ted Haggard....cough....Jim Baker......cough....any one who preaches myths/lies every Sunday.

I somehow was under the impression it was the court's job to be the determiner of the facts, not some nutter's wife and some biased cops on xmas day.

You, the OP, sound like just another power hungry LEO with this bull shiat xmas story..."frequent flyer"? Puhleez

Take this diatribe over to FR where they will admire you for bleeving the pastor's WIFE.

lmao

[NNN0LHI]

42. Try telling that to this father once

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/riley.fox.murder.2.1049568.html

Riley Fox Murder Still Unsolved 5 Years Later

Her Father Was Charged, But DNA Proved His Innocence

Jun 18, 2009 8:46 am US/Central

Riley Fox died five years ago this month, and the identity of her killer remains a mystery.

Five months later, her father, Kevin Fox, was arrested by Will County Sheriff's police on murder charges following a lengthy interrogation.

Authorities said at the time that Fox told investigators he decided to make his daughter's death look like an abduction after he thought he accidentally killed her by hitting her in the head with a door.

But Fox claimed detectives coerced him into saying he had hit Riley's head, accidentally causing her death.

Fox was charged with her rape and murder, and spent eight months in jail before DNA testing -- obtained by his own defense team -- proved he did not sexually assault Riley.

He was released on June 17, 2005, and the case has been unsolved ever since.

[Obamanaut]

43. My 'talking to police' experiences have always been positive. nt

[Taitertots]

45. Neither extreme is a good idea

Obviously, saying anything and everything is a bad idea.

Conversely being excessively uncooperative is not a good idea either.

There is a sane middle ground between them.

[asdjrocky]

48. Lol, no thank you.

Sorry man, nothing ever good comes from the police being in my neighborhood.

I can understand what you are saying to a point, but you have to realize there are two groups of people in this world, those who for the most part, most of the time they are treated fairly by the police.

And then there's the rest of us.

[NNN0LHI]

49. Cop takes Fifth -- 153 times in 51 minutes

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/46730512.html

By John Diedrich of the Journal Sentinel
June 2, 2009



Milwaukee Police Officer Bradley Blum, who was at the party where Frank Jude Jr. (at right) was beaten, has answered questions under oath several times for police investigators, at a Fire and Police Commission hearing (where he saved his job) and in state court.

He also was ready to testify in federal court where four MPD cops were on trial for beating Jude. (seven of the eight charged were convicted). All the times he testified, Blum said he was standing near Jude but didn't see him beaten -- just punched a few times.

Now Blum won't answer questions. Jude filed a $30 million civil rights lawsuit against the city and officers involved (Blum isn't a defendant). Attorneys have taken a dozen depositions and so far, no one has refused to answer questions, or in other words taken the Fifth.

But that is what Blum did last month. In fact, he did it 153 times in 51 minutes. He would only answer this question: what is your name? He wouldn't answer any others, including what he does for a living.

Blum is a Milwaukee police officer, restored to that position by the commission after former Chief Nannette Hegerty fired him for failing to protect Jude and gross misconduct.

[NNN0LHI]

51. Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 - From a lawyer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

[NNN0LHI]

52. Don't Talk to Cops, Part 2 - From a detective

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related

[MineralMan]

53. Good post. Thanks.

Not too long ago, while experiencing a brain fart, I stopped at a red light, looked both ways and went right through it, like it was one of the many four-way stops here. As soon as I went through it, I realized that I had not been paying attention. I was thinking about the list of things I was going to pick up at the supermarket.

Naturally, there was a local cop behind me, and the blue lights came on. I pulled over in a safe spot, and got my licence and insurance card out of my wallet.

The cop walked up to the car after running my plates, and asked if I knew why I was being pulled over. "Because I'm an idiot," was my answer. I explained what I had done and how stupid that really was.

No ticket. The cop told me to be more careful and pay attention to my driving and not to get distracted.

I did a stupid thing. Why would I not own up to it? I deserved a ticket, but did not get one. It's all good.

[safeinOhio]

67. Not like getting pulled over and asked

if you were just over at a party store on the other side of town and you have no idea what he is talking about.

My ex-wife once gave me a tee shirt that said "you have the right to remain silent, anything you say will be misquoted and used against you". She WAS a cop.

You knew you didn't stop for the light. Not a big deal felony. On the other hand if you are pulled over and have no idea what the cop is talking about, STFU and get a lawyer.

[MineralMan]

73. Sorry, but I don't agree with you.

If I didn't do what they thought I did, I will say that. If I was not where they think I was, I will say that, as well. If I am innocent of something, you can be sure that I will say that, and often. I will also hire an attorney if that is necessary.

It's difficult for me to imagine when that might be. When I deal with police officers, I am polite, truthful, and calm. I know I've done nothing illegal, unless it's like going through that red light. My candor in that instance led to a simple warning. If I had gotten a ticket, I would have simply paid it. I had done what I did.

It's a rare occasion when I interact with police officers. Generally, it is when I have called them to report some suspicious activity in my neighborhood. Other than that, I follow the traffic laws, don't steal stuff, and don't drive while intoxicated. Essentially, I do nothing to attract their attention.

My own experience is that I have found all the police officers I have interacted with to be sensible, willing to listen to what I have to say, and reflective of how I present myself. Oddly, enough, that's pretty much how most people behave. Speak calmly and truthfully, and you generally get the same respect you show.

[Xicano]

127. That's all well and fine, but.....

...what I think you're not getting is the fact a police officer asking you your whereabouts at a certain time is a police officer conducting an investigation and you're being looked at as a possible suspect. Sure you're perfectly innocent, but, the cop doesn't know that or who you are. All they know is that you fit something about their investigation. So why on earth would you increase the odds of suspicion against yourself by saying something to the cop that may be innocently misconstrued and lead them to suspect you more? It looks like you believe its impossible for a perfectly innocent person to be convicted of something they had no relation to.

The best thing anyone can possibly do when confronted by a police officer with questions is to politely ask the officer if you're free to go and leave if he/she says yes. If no, then the best thing to do is what lawyers, judges and other police officers do and say to do in this circumstance. Remain silent. This protection is there for a very, very important reason.

eom.



Peace,
Xicano

[rd_kent]

131. When a cop asks you questions like "where have you been" or "where are you going"

I always reply with "am I under arrest or being detained or am I free to go". Where I have been or where I am going is none of the cops business to start with. By answering any questions other than verifying your name and giving DL/Ins info, you are opening yourself up to even more questions.

Bottom line...be polite, cooperate fully until they ask for info that is not their business.

[Kind of Blue]

76. Well, you're lucky because some of us have gotten

undeserved tickets. I've had cops stop me twice for no other reason than for my phone number and a date :wtf: Both instances, I was enraged and promptly got speeding tickets. Had to take off from work, spend a day in court each time and the officers never bothered showing up. Complaining about them, did no good - I just made myself a target for being followed and in the 2nd instance, officer hangouts in MY DRIVEWAY (to catch speeders was the excuse).

The most recent, I was slowly driving my sister and her sickly infant home after spending the day in the hospital, only to be pulled over because (1) I looked like a female carjacker and then because I was not (2) I was speeding. One officer had to prevent the other from totally going off on me for not showing "proper respect," and "ready to haul my ass in," because I'm probably nothing "but a fucking addict," because I questioned his motives. The "good cop" said to the other, "Look, man, you're scaring the baby." Went to court, judge dismissed it.

I'm a college-educated, law abiding citizen, have no criminal record nor committed any crime I've gotten away with, and have never lived in crime infested areas. I've just learned that you have to kiss their asses quickly and thoroughly. Since I cannot bring myself to do that, I keep my temper in check - that helped in another instance but I avoid them like the plague.

[TexasObserver]

84. Yours is one of many such horror stories.

No one says all cops are bad, but some cops are bad, and they are often protected by rank and file officers. They close ranks to protect each other, even when that means lying under oath.

It's the perfect field for sexual predators, too, because it does give men such as the one who harassed you the chance to freely lean on vulnerable women. Police hitting on women is a problem in law enforcement. Police hitting women is also a problem in law enforcement. Many departments have programs to deal with excessive conduct by officers in those two areas.

You cannot win an argument with a police officer on the side of the road, so one should not try. Say as little as possible and don't answer loaded questions ("Do you know what you did wrong?").

[Kind of Blue]

91. I hate crying unexpectedly but your words of

acknowledgment really gets to me. I really appreciate your advice here in this thread, especially after learning the lesson the hard way.

[TexasObserver]

95. If you attended a group session of women who have been sexually assaulted ...

... you would find many reports of women who have been assaulted by police officers - strippers, hookers, college girls, single professional women. You would hear them tell of the way their childhood belief in cops disappeared in an instant, as they became prey. Sometimes it is more subtle, such as the one you experienced. Sometimes, it's the ride behind a building and the chance to avoid that DUI with five minutes of sexual assault the officer will claim was "consensual."

And then there are the stories of the exes - the wives and girlfriends who find they're harassed by their policeman ex and his buddies. Abuse of power is a problem. The many good officers don't negate those abusing their position of power.

The experience you had is a scary one, and one that you have to wonder "what if his partner hadn't been there?" I encourage you to talk to someone about it, someone connected to sexual assault victims. Being threatened as you were is a scary experience.

[Kind of Blue]

101. Thank goodness that there is such a thing!

I would have certainly joined one of those groups 20 years ago, because to this day, it's awful feeling like prey just carrying on with life. I'll be sure to pass the information you've provided in this thread to the young women in my family who are just learning how to drive...you just never know. :hug:

[rd_kent]

134. Yeah, the whole "respect" thing pisses me off.

I will always be polite, but a cop that does not give respect gets no back from me.

[Kind of Blue]

145. Even politeness without a certain level

of perceived respect is not enough for some. But I've learned to maintain politeness no matter what and keep my thoughts to myself :rofl:

[NashVegas]

57. Sarah Had a Church Full Of Witnesses

[and-justice-for-all]

58. I live with the Police, so not talking to them is not an option...nt

[BlooInBloo]

62. BWAHAHAAHAAAA!!

Look ma! Dude in law enforcement says it's a good idea to talk to cops! Just trust him! They would NEVER lie to us!!!

fail cop is fail.

BWWAHAHAAHAAHAAAA!!!

[JonLP24]

65. +1

Good post :thumbsup:

[dajoki]

63. Bad example n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

75. Newsflash! Cop says trust cops!

Broker says trust Wall Street. Film at 11.

[L0oniX]

103. +1

[eilen]

79. A month ago I was driving

down a city street. This area of town is a high crime area, a prime hangout for the knife and gun club. What can I do? My employer assigned me to it and it is usually safe during the daylight hours. So anyway, I'm cruising along and notice there are quite a bit of police cars patrolling around (not necessarily an unusual sight as there is gang activity in this area). I stick the speed limit. As I cruise through a larger intersection driving towards a safer area, I realize I am being followed. Just as my luck would have it, I am approaching an area in which there are slow signs for schools. There are about 3 or 4 different schools and a fire house along this area although you cannot necessarily see them. Some are set back from the road and others are around the corner. The tricky thing is it is very hard to tell where one slow speed area begins, ends and the next one begins. So I slow my driving dramatically to 25 mph which is the speed limit by schools. Now the police car is stuck to my bumper. Another police car passes him the opposite way, then turns around and drives behind him, then passes both of us. I pull to the side of the road to give the officer room to pass me, he doesn't. Thank goodness the road ends soon at the corner is a coffee/sandwhich shop, I pull in the parking lot.

The police officer also pulls in the lot.

I get out of my car and he stops me-- He asks me if I am okay, he thought my driving was erratic. (!?)

I said yes, I was fine. "this road has lots of schools and it is hard to discern where the slow traffic starts and ends, in addition to being concerned that some kid might dash out, there was this police officer right behind me watching every move I made for the last 10 blocks or was possibly driving slow because there was some crime in progress I might drive into. That made me a nervous wreck, so I'm taking a break and questioning my decision to be a visiting nurse. Have a good day."

He was a young cop and blushed a bit, thanked me, assured me he was just concerned and left the parking lot.

[H2O Man]

80. Bullshit.

[COLGATE4]

82. As a lawyer with 25 years+ in practice

I can tell you that the best thing you can do is to never volunteer ANYTHING to the police. If questioned, you should attempt to answer politely, calmly and providing the absolute minimum amount of information necessary to answer the direct question posed. You can also alsnwer with a question: Q "Do you know how fast you were going?" A- "How fast do you think I was going". While it is idiotic to demand a lawyer when you've obviously done something illegal,i.e. blown the red light with the cop right behind you, it's equally idiotic to try and 'convince' the officer. Police by law have the right to be deceptive in their questioning of you and, in the event that your are taken into custody you should, after remaining calm and cooperative, absolutely refuse to answer ANY question about ANYTHING without the presence of your attorney. Jails are filled with people who didn't.

[TexasObserver]

90. "Jails are filled with people who didn't." is right.

The first thing new defense counsel wants to know is "did the defendant give a statement?"

Most defendants hurt themselves by talking to police. No matter what the person says, the police will twist it, mischaracterize it, or just plain lie about it.

Assuming that police are always well meaning and can never falsely accuse - on purpose or by accident - is a bad assumption. Many times they'll get it in their head that someone is guilty of something, and no amount of reason will dissuade them.

[treestar]

86. Maybe it depends on the department

A family friend grabbed something from his girlfriend in his own home. it belonged to her. He was charged with 'robbery.' I could not believe how gung ho the cops were to make the most they possibly could of this incident.

They were in no way wanting to do justice. So I wouldn't trust the ones around here not to be using the conversation to find something they could strain into a charge.

[1awake]

89. I was a LEO as well,

And while I understand what your saying, and agree there are definitely times people should speak, in many cases, I would advise against it. Don't misunderstand me please, I had and continue to have respect for those who go out day in and day out to try and protect others. It's so easy for most to say Cops are all bad and never trust a Cop.. most never having been through situations they have to be involved in (I said most.. not all).

But on the whole, exercising one's rights is not a bad thing. Once Miranda get's involved, someone who is being interviewed should not think the Police are on their side.. because they aren't. The Police are trying to swiftly bring closure and at this point, they are all about the crime and charges and on nobody's side.

Police are not some evil entity nor are most of them power hungry people looking for ways to screw you. But that doesn't mean someone shouldn't exercise their rights. For me.. I suppose if I was being questioned on anything other than as a suspect, I would most likely talk to the police. Once Miranda starts getting tossed around, it would be a different story.

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. If we were frequent fliers your advice might work

But in my experience most cops are assholes. My experience was being pulled over after doing nothing wrong and the cop asks what am I doing here. I say driving down the street. Cop gives me a speeding ticket and calls me a smart ass. But I wasn't speeding. So I filed a complaint. Turns out I was driving down a street where a drug dealer lived and the cop thought I was a customer. But I was a middle aged white woman just driving down the street. My ticket was thrown out when I filed the complaint.

If I had said nothing the cop probably would have searched my car and planted drugs in it.

[TexasObserver]

98. And don't forget being targeted for political bumper stickers.

Cops sometimes pull people over because they don't like the driver's political sentiments. If you have bumper stickers that identify you as politically active on the left, you will be much more likely to be pulled over by Buford P. Weekend Constable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. That happened to my son driving my car!!!

Cop said he had just gotten back from Iraq and was offended by the AFSC sticker on my car that said we were spending $720 million a day in Iraq. Son wisely said well it's my mom's car so you'll have to take that up with her. Cop let him go - no ticket. I called our city council rep who called the police chief. Chief called me and apologized. Said this wasn't the first time that cop had done this.

[TexasObserver]

117. That's a common problem.

That's the last job in society we need to have manned by returning war vets. They are not accustomed to dealing with civilians, and have absolutely no concept of the constitution. A few years to re-assimilate and see if they can be trusted with that kind of authority would be wise.

That officer should be removed from law enforcement entirely. He's a danger if he's stopping citizens because they have political stickers he doesn't like.

[rd_kent]

136. The old "probable cause" for searching your car.....

I was pulled over once and a cop asked if he could search my car. I replied that while I will not physically prevent him from doing so, I do not give him my consent. He says "well, I have probable cause, I smell weed". I replied, then why did you ask me. If you are going to search my car, do it because you think you have probable cause, but if you do not find anything, you can expect a civil lawsuit for violating my civil rights." I then ask if I am being detained or if I am free to go." He hands me my license and drives away.



NEVER give the cops permission to do anything......

[Lydia Leftcoast]

99. Back when I lived in Oregon, I was driving through the town where I lived

observing the speed limit, in the right lane of the four-lane highway that ran through town.

There is very little traffic.

All of a sudden, there's a cop riding my bumper. It's a bit annoying, but I don't pay any attention, and then he starts flashing his red and blue lights, so I pull over.

He starts yelling at me for not pulling into the left lane when he wanted to speed up.

This made so little sense that I said, "Isn't the person who wants to go faster supposed to take the left lane?"

He just went off on me, yelling and telling me that he'd pull me in for disrespecting an officer if I...what? Kept making sense?

When he stopped for breath, I decided that it was best to take a calm approach: "I'm sorry, officer, I forgot about that rule. It won't happen again."

He calmed down and let me go without issuing a citation.

I asked an attorney of my acquaintance about the incident, and she assured me that there was no such rule and that I was not obligated to pull over for a cop car or any other official vehicle unless it was in blinking lights and siren mode.

She told me that the local cops frequently issued citations for what amounted to "Driving While Hispanic" and that it had happened to the head of the Spanish program at my college. The cops had stopped him and were roughing him up when a passerby pulled over and said, "Hey, do you realize that he teaches at the college?" (i.e. has friends who know the score).

But I heard other stories from that area, including one that was reported on the local news, that a man (with a Latino man) driving with his two small children had been stopped for a traffic violation, had gotten angry at the arresting officers, had been beaten up, and dragged off to jail, leaving the two children screaming in the car. The story failed to say what happened to the children. Did the cops at least call a relative to come and get the children, or were they taken into foster care? That story still bothers me.

[Gman2]

100. In other words GUILTY TILL PROVEN INNOCENT, and even then, still a frequent flyer.

[L0oniX]

104. "where are you coming from?" "where are you going?" None of your fucking business!

You never know what just happened at the place you are coming from. Where you are going is a stupid question to ask in the first place ...it's not tea time when you get pulled over.

[alfredo]

106. Instead of talking, use interpretive dance.

[DainBramaged]

107. The typical police line "let me help you" is simply to make it easier for them to get you convicted

when all else fails, take the easy route, get some stooge to admit to some portion of the 'crime' so they can take the fall. All so that the officers can get home at the end of the shift.


My advice, don't say shit unless there is a lawyer present, innocent or guilty. Because there is NO cop on this planet who is going to help YOU unless he wants to help you convict yourself. And if you are innocent and the cops are trying to pin something on you, if there is a lawyer there, they will think twice about trying to coerce you.


Cops don't care about the public, they care about their job and their 'brothers'. And when one of them is evil, they cover for them no matter what they've done. And we should cooperate?

That's all I've got to say.

[TexasObserver]

121. Well said.

[Ikonoklast]

108. Here's my Christmas story.

I have two brothers, both practicing attorneys.

They know more of the law than any LEO, period. If LEO's knew so much, they'd be practicing attorneys, now, wouldn't they?

Their advice to me, and the rest of the family is, "Never talk to cops. If they take you in, and you have to spend a night in the lock-up, no big deal. Shut up and go, you'll be out before noon. But say nothing."


I'll take their advice over some anonymous cop posting on the web, thnx.

[TexasObserver]

122. That is great advice from your attorney brothers.

And it is standard advice.

If you want to know how to get arrested, talk to a cop.

If you want to know how to prevail in a criminal case, talk to a lawyer, not a cop.

[Raineyb]

116. I'll take your advice into consideration and ignore it as it should be.

The police are NOT your friends. To believe so is to put yourself into trouble you didn't have to be in.

NEVER talk to the police.

[Cerridwen]

118. Officer George Bruch disagrees.

Officer George Bruch former cop and "current" (as of this video) law student, disagrees, explains why, and gives examples of how he's used and twisted the truth of the innocent and the guilty.

Let's see; a documented and named source telling his tale versus an anonymous poster who has a history of siding with "the enemy" in the name of "law and order"? Hmmm, tough one. I think I'll go with Officer Bruch.

[tekisui]

119. This coming from a cop?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'll continue to keep my mouth shut when dealing with cops. Thanks, but no thanks for the advice.

[PassingFair]

123. Anything you say can and will be used against you.

Keep your trap SHUT until your lawyer gets there.

Period.

[Iggo]

144. Can and will...can and will...can and will...

...can and will...can and will...

Are you hearing that?

Get a lawyer. If your lawyer thinks it's in your best interest, THEN talk to the cops.

[pundaint]

132. It is the most simple of risk management exercises.

What's the maximum downside of keeping silent? A few hours in custody, and that's if they have some sort of probable cause.

What's the maximum downside of talking? Some innocent people have actually been executed on cases built on circumstances, and inexact word choice.

[yodoobo]

141. only cops thinks its a good idea to talk to cops

There is a reason for this and it has nothing to do with what is good for you.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

142. LOL. Bullshit!

I'm 44 years old and have known, personally, 20 plus cops on 10 different police forces in the Chicago area and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has admitted to lying on the stand or some other form of perjury or filing false reports. The biggest fucking law breakers I know are cops.

I listened to a an Oak Forest Illinois cop BRAG about planting evidence on a suspect they just KNEW was guilty of a rash of burglaries. This same cop used to go drinking with some of my co-workers and I would hear stories of him driving drunk doing 90 mph down the shoulder of I-55.

I had a part time Bridgeview Illinois cop I worked with who used to LOVE bragging about how "mighty" his pen was and how he could make shit up if you pissed him off. This guy was always selling some shit that "fell off a truck"

I watched an Oak Lawn cop brag about beating confessions out of a suspect. The cop was my boss' best friend from high school.

My boss' father was a part-time Cook County Sheriff. This was back when you could be a Sheriff if you were politically connected. He did it so he could carry a gun and a badge. He would work some holiday shifts. We used to get some of the lowest scum of the earth county coppers in our store. I would deal with them as I was in charge of finance. We had one county copper who was part-time security for a mobster in Oak Brook Illinois.

I know half the cops in the below linked story. Do I think they beat the shit out of the kid in the story? Abso-fucking-lutely. They are constantly bragging about profiling, perjury and "tuning up" gang-bangers.

You don't believe how pervasive the attitude is on the Chicago p.d.? Go to http://www.secondcitycop.blogspot.com/ and read the contempt these pigs have for civilians, minorities and civilian authority. They brag on the website about how "probable cause is the pen in their pockets" FYI: "savages" is the new term for "n*ggers" ..... or you might hear "mules" or "silver-backs" .... you get the point.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bar-tender/2009/05/chicago-man-sues-the-city-and-13-chicago-police-officers.html

The chicago cops I know all brag about writing numerous bogus parking tickets when some civilian smarts off to them. They all drink like fish and drive whenever they please.


If you want to do a service, maybe you can do a bit on tricks cops use to lie and trick "frequent flyers" in to confessions and rolling over on themselves or their buddies.

For fair and balance: My public defender friends say "wear a mask!!!" if you are going to rob someone.

[undeterred]

143. Good advice: Don't take advice from cops either

[Echo In Light]

150. Online or off

:bounce:

[KrR]

146. Im happy if they don't shoot me n/t