I cannot imagine anything more tragic than being blown up in the last hour of a flight.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

I think the best hour to be blown up on an international flight is the fourth hour.

The second hour is also pretty good.

But the last hour? Unacceptable.


Posted regarding the TSA's typical banning of whatever-the-details-of-the-latest-incident-were. Going to the bathroom during the last hour of a flight is not really the problem. Going to the bathroom to make a bomb at any point IS a problem.

Lots of people need to go to the bathroom toward the end of a flight and the food service carts are all stowed away. Wouldn't a terrorist would have an easier time spending a long time in the bathroom during the middle of a flight?

A 9/11-type hijacking is more of a threat during the last hour... closer to targets, less amateur flying needed, less time for fighters to intercept the plane, less time for passengers to bust into the cockpit, etc..

But a bomb? Hell, a bomb is probably most dangerous at the highest altitude when decompression will be most explosive, plane further from a landing place if hydraulics are damaged, fuel leaking out fast, etc..

This is a truly bipartisan sort of idiocy. The Clinton administration added security measures in response to a "terrorist bombing" that turned out to be a mechanical malfunction. The Bush administration banned random stuff to no purpose all the time, as if being pointlessly inconvenienced equals a feeling of safety.

[pnwmom]

1. They wanted the bombing to take place over American soil --

hence, it needed to happen toward the end of the trip. Otherwise, it's just another international flight that mysteriously blew up in the air.

[izquierdista]

But how do you know that?

Maybe the pilots are playing videogames and left it on autopilot and are on a two hour detour. So you never know when the last hour of the flight is.

[pnwmom]

31. Pilots often would make announcements about the last hour. And it was

possible to track your individual flight on the TV screen over your seat -- now that's been disabled.

[Edweird]

35. It's not that hard really. When you're not over water anymore is a pretty good indication.

Seriously. It isn't rocket science.

Also, there are clues from the flight crew as well.

[ixion]

2. Yep.. part and parcel of our bipartisan idiocracy

I'm afraid. :(

[tekisui]

3. 'Please secure your explosives for the last hour of the flight.'

It is lunacy.

[DrDan]

4. but the closer to landing, the more opportunities for collateral deaths

right?

Not much of a chance while out over open ocean.

[pnwmom]

8. And the bombing and subsequent investigation all take place on American soil.

Increases the media factor.

[DrDan]

16. true - probably no where else where media attention would be greater than

over American soil.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

19. In the sense you mean, a slight increase

A plane being blown up at random over an inhabited area was a higher chance of killing someone of the ground than over the ocean, but that's because the chance over the ocean is zero.

But there's a surprising amount of open space, even around developed areas. A plane blown up a half hour from its airport has an excellent chance of hitting nothing on the way down.

Most plane crashes occur during shortly after take-off or shortly before landing and most of them seem to miss people on the ground. There are exceptions, of course, but most plane crashes we hear about involve only the people on the plane.

The last hour is quite significant for a 9/11-style hijacking because there's much less time a hijacker needs to fly the plane and secure the cockpit. Less time for fighters to intercept. Etc.

But in the case of a bombing I doubt we would consider blowing up over the ocean much of a victory.

[DrDan]

23. I hear you - but here is a case of an accident very near my home

the airport does handle commercial traffic - and it would have been FAR worse than 3 deaths on the ground had the plane been cmmercial carrier as opposed to a small plane.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

25. I hear you also. I wince looking at homes built right at the end of runways...

though the noise-stress will probably kill you if a plane doesn't.

[DrDan]

26. my wife and I spent a lot of time in the U.S.A.F - and have lived on several bases

I love the sound of planes overhead. We now live near a fly-in community where a lot of old planes fly from (old WWII type). I love to see (and hear those old rotary engiines) as they fly in formation over our house.

[pipi_k]

24. I always wondered about the "collateral deaths" thing ever since 9/11

Not that I am a ghoul or anything, but it always seemed to me that they could have caused a whole lot more death and destruction by flying the plane a bit more downward into the twin towers so that anyone on lower floors who did manage to escape the actual hit that day would not have survived because more of the lower floors would have been involved, and perhaps the buildings themselves might have collapsed sideways into the streets or into other buildings.

In other words, it seemed to me that they could have done a whole lot more damage than they actually did, if the goal were to rack up collateral deaths.

so I'm thinking that causing a lot of collateral deaths is only a secondary goal...that the real goal, even if only a few deaths result, is to incite terror.

I dunno...just a thought...

[DrDan]

27. I've wondered the same thing

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

28. I thought something similar, but it's much trickier flying.

Even on the south-side of the towers there are (were) shorter buildings to clear. (If 20 stories can be called short) Very developed area.

I assume they planned on the capitol, versus the WH, because the capitol has the mall leading up to it, which is almost like a landing strip. (Though they may have been influenced by the open secret that the WH had an anti-aircraft battery installed after that guy flew his plane into the WH during the Clinton years.)

The pentagon is surrounded by miles of parking lots but I recall some aviation analysts still being amazed they could hit the pentagon at ground level.

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. I saw that the Today show was going to talk about something new in the last hour of flights

but I didn't feel like sitting through the whole show waiting for them to talk about it.

What is the new rule that regards the last hour of a flight?

I'm sure it's some asinine fuckstain of a useless rule, like "no going to the bathroom during the last hour" because, apparently, if a guy is gonna wire his bomb, he's only gonna do it in the bathroom, and only do it during the last hour of the flight.

Yeah, terrorists are gonna make sure to get the most miles in and in-flight movies watched and in-flight beverages consumed before blowing the fucking thing up.

:eyes:

Do you know what it is?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

10. No potty-breaks during the last hour. No blankets or pillows in laps.

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. What I figured - I knew it be useless, inconvenient, and utterly silly.

[asjr]

18. If I couldn't go the the restroom

during the last hour I would have to put on two pair of Depends instead of one. On the other hand I might just pee all over everything and tell them it is a new type of explosive.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. You can have up to three ounces of pee, but only in a clear quart-sized zip-loc bag

[TZ]

34. They do this if you fly into National Airport

I've sat through this. No big deal as you have to be sitting down for the last half and hour on a flight anyway because thats when you start descending. Honestly, people are making too much of a fuss about this.

[jberryhill]

21. That Is Why We All Need Snuggies! /nt

[peekaloo]

14. Can't reach into the overhead. Plus they're disabling the navigational

maps/movies that are featured (on some flights) on the backs of seats. Supposedly if a child is in need the attendant will escort them to the litter box.

*this in addition to above OP's response*

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

30. Hmmmm.... that litter-box idea has merit

[HipChick]

17. these are all the new rules..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7337055

[HipChick]

6. Let's face it..he really didn't want to bomb the plane..

He could have stayed in the bathroom and detonated it fully...unchallenged...they said he was carrying enough to blow the plane out the sky..

[bemildred]

7. What is the threat color level today anyway? nt

[KittyWampus]

13. the fact we don't know says volumes about the difference between Obama and Bush

[Bluenorthwest]

22. They stopped with the color coding thing

or are in process of stopping that. Which is great because that whole thing was daft.

[NJmaverick]

9. We mock what we don't understand

[bemildred]

11. We mock stupidity, fear, and incompetence. nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. Yes, I have noticed that you do a lot of that.

In future I will try to post things that are easier for you to understand.

[highplainsdem]

29. +1

[amborin]

32. k&r bottom line: no $$$$ for airport sniffing machines

Amsterdam's Schipfol, where this flight stopped, is a worry zone....so, too, London, Brusssels, Frankfurt

Amsterdam has some sniffer machines but not enough

and the US doesn't have enough......

they're expensive!

[Name removed]

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