Hey Fucknut Teabaggers, There Is NO WAY You Can Repeal HCR, HAHAHAHA!

[WeDidIt]

To repeal HCR would require 290 seats in the House and 67 seats in the Senate due to the requirements to override a veto.

Game, Set, Match.

[tridim]

1. They have seriously overestimated their power.

I'll be sure to thank the MSM for that one. :)

[WeDidIt]

2. And after they teabagged the Republican in the NY-23rd

The Republicans are fucking TERRIFIED of the morons.

[terrell9584]

3. Yes lets celebrate

That a bunch of pissant lobbyists have taken the Mitt Romney plan to Washington and are now on the verge of forcing Americans to choose bad insurance plans before they choose food, before they choose to pay automotive expenses, before they choose to say take college classes so they can improve their lot in life.


And I wouldn't be so sure that Republicans won't be able to get either that 290 or that 67. Putting that kind of anti-Democratic bullshit in a bill will piss the public off as much as the mandatory insurance and that might could lead to 290 seats in the House and 67 in the Senate. There aren't really as many safe seats as you think there are.


But ignore us working Americans who can't afford to pay this tax mandate. I'm currently working my way through graduate school. I cannot afford to pay this mandate. I will not pay this mandate. If they force me to pay it I will tell them to fuck off. If necessary, I'll go strictly to odds jobs that I can take straight cash for to stay under the radar. I'm not sacrificing my education and my chance at the American dream to satisfy the wishes and the wants of a bunch of corrupt and out-of-touch assholes who have been sucking dick from the lobbyists for so long that they have forgotten they are there to serve us.


This is supposed to be the United States of America, not the United State of Allstate.

[FarLeftFist]

6. If you can't afford to pay you will receive a hardship exemption.

If you make under $30,000 you will receive medicaid with NO annual premium. Is it so much to ask that people actually know wtf their talking about before posting.

[Jamastiene]

17. Will the Medicaid expansion to childless adults be mandatory for the states?

Or do you know?

[Desertrose]

27. Does Medicaid have to be repaid at some point?

I thought I read somewhere that if you eventually increase your income, you must repay what you received from Medicaid...anyone know for sure?

[Kermitt Gribble]

38. Do you have a link for that?

Not being snarky, just would like to read it for myself because, if true, I would qualify for this.

[Donnachaidh]

54. they aren't the folks who will have problems -- it will be the ones who make OVER that

And you and all the other cheerleaders know that.

The poor schmuck who maes more than the poverty level, but just might actually have a house, and other bills to pay -- THEY are the ones who will be ineligible for medicaid and caught in the cross fire.

Disappearing whole sections of our society to make brownie points is a repuke tactic. One which seems to have been taken up quite nicely by Rahm's Rangers and all the others looking to profit from this POS give away.

[WeDidIt]

7. Waaaaaah!

[terrell9584]

11. That's what Republicans said in 2008

To all the Americans who were getting laid off. They said it wasn't a big deal. Said that the rapidly growing ranks of the unemployed just weren't working hard enough and surely they're lazy and that's why they're unemployed. Oh, and they also blamed the poor for their mortgages failing.


We saw how the working people of America reacted to that in 2008. Don't think that the tables won't be turned and turned very quickly if this passes. Most people who clamor for this bill don't realize the number of junk insurers who are out there who sell very bad plans that simply take in money and provide no coverage who are simply salivating at this bill.

[WeDidIt]

13. More bullshit n/t

[FarLeftFist]

19. Someone making $50,000/year would pay $2000/year

For a really good plan covering a family of 4. I think if someone has a family of 4 they place HC as a top priority on their list. That is huge savings over the current prices for a family of 4. Huge savings. Again please learn the facts before posting non-sense.

[WeDidIt]

30. Hopefully, the conference committee will move this shit up

because it'll cause the Republicans to lose huge in 2010 if the working family's of America are already reaping the benefits of this bill.

[terrell9584]

35. Average income is 40k

But let's analyze that $40k. Now I will use simple internet tax calculators to do it as I have never made that in my life but I think I can make a good estimate. Income tax outright will be approximately $4400. Now, using my state of residency's tax structure (that residency soon shifts), another $1650. So we have now taken out $6050 in taxes before we even get to payroll. Now, FICA, another 6.2%. Another loss of approximately $2125. So now, the total loss of income off the top is around 12575 (all approximations but I am trying to make a point)

So, that 40,000 has magically morphed into 27575. So what other expenses are there. Well, theres rent. In many parts of the country its much higher than this but we'll use what rent/mortgage on a decent middle class home/apartment is where I'm originally from which is comparable to much of the center of the country.

It comes out to around $9600 a year (assuming 800 per mo) and so now you are at 17575. Assume around $3000 a year for food. 14575. Assume the average car payments and all. You could be as low as 11575. But we'll say 12,500 for ease and to give said taxpayer a break. (Keep in mind no deductions are claimed on this one)

Student loans, you have to pay them. We'll be nice and say they're only 2000 a year. That's still hefty and now said person is at 10,500. God help this person if they own their own home because then you have, property taxes. And property taxes are a wonderous thing. Where I'm originally from they're delightfully low but in many parts of America they arent. Concievably, this person could pay as much as 3k a year on property tax (and even that is probably low ball) So they could as as low as 7500 left before we let them pay utilities, cable, cell and the rest. But, I'll give them a break


I'll say this person is a home owner but that they have a burden of only 1500 a year. So they're left with 9,000. Now, based on power bills averaging where I was living, I'll use an also possibly lowball estimate of $1300. So, 7700 left. Now if they have gas, chop off another 800-1000 for the year. But we'll be nice, we'll assume they have all electric utility. Now, landlines mean a loss of around $400 maybe. I'll say so to be fair. 7300. Internet. Well, another 3-5 down the drain. I'll say 400. 6700. Now, gasoline expenses. Yeah, there's a killer. I'll midball and say 2000. So 4700. Add in the other utilities. Water, yeah, chop off another 1000. So 3700. Now lets say this single person is fortunate enough to have student loan debt. Why, yes, I see it. I see it now. We'll be very generous and say they only lose 1500 a year to it (really generous). So, 2200. Why, we're cutting in very close to the tax penalty aren't we. Car insurance. Well, chop off another 700-1200 depending on various factors (maybe even higher). I'll be fair and say, 900.


So now we are left with $1300. As it turns out, very close to the no insurance tax penalty. Now, this was off the top of my head estimating and figuring, but that 1300 left comes to just a little over 100 a month or 25 a week extra. I've probably left out some expense but for now I'll be fair to this person and leave them at least that.


So, wow, $108 left a month that is not spent on essentials (and I don't think I even included cable in here. Basic, well, loss of 600). Per week, looking at 52.


And suddenly, this 40,000 doesn't look so great after all does it. Great if you have two incomes in the home that are equal. Great if you share an apartment. However, this person as I figured it is already treading water. That insurance mandate takes up what they have left.


If this person, uninsured and probably young, has this mandate shoved down their throat taking the last little bit of money they have how happy do you think they'll be. Think such a thing might set them off.


And the thing about this person. They make more than I do and have less in student loans than I do. Well, imagine that.

[TicketyBoo]

50. But you're assuming

that this fictional person both rents and owns a home. You have him paying $9600 a year on rent plus $3000 a year on property taxes plus a "burden" (whatever that means--upkeep and insurance?) of $1500 a year. The rent excludes the cost of real estate taxes and the "burden" of home ownership.

You may want to rethink those figures because, all of a sudden, you're $4500 to the good.

Also, I've never faced a car payment in my entire life. I drive a car for which I can afford to pay cash, and always have done so. By driving an older car, you get a break on car insurance, too.

I've only been without health insurance for a very short time in my life when my husband changed jobs. It has been a priority with us, and we pay more for our health insurance than it would cost per month to drive a brand new Lexus. It's all where your priorities lie, and too many young people rail at the prospect of paying for health insurance when they should be willing to step up and pay for something that could end up saving their financial life (as well as their actual life) if tragedy should befall them. Mandates mean that overall costs can be lower, and, despite your powerful guardian angel who protects you 24/7, that angel could blink and you could end up in a horrendous traffic accident or find yourself staring at a diagnosis of a life-altering illness. Even though young people think they're invulnerable, they're not. Everybody needs health insurance until such time as the government decides to step up and provide single-payer (which means you get to pay the taxes to support that; and it won't be cheap). Mandates are not such a bad thing in the eyes of people who have seen the need for health insurance throughout their lives. Too many people (especially young people) think they can skate by without it, and end up costing everybody when that bet doesn't pay off. Especially in doing away with the pre-existing condition clauses, mandates are essential, otherwise people would just wait until they need insurance to buy it. Certainly, premiums would skyrocket in a scenario like that.

[FLDCVADem]

39. I'd be interested in seeing these numbers

Not snark, truly curious. Do you have a link?

[leftstreet]

53. +1

[dkf]

4. They just need a new president by 2013

There are only taxes til then.

[WeDidIt]

8. It'll never happen

Obama will win in a landslide.

[dkf]

9. I'm considering not voting for him myself

Especially if he fights for this mandate. I am that offended.

[WeDidIt]

14. Yeah, right

Like I even believe you voted for him the first time.

:eyes:

[MNDemNY]

24. When everyone who you "do not believe voted for him the first time" ..

does not vote for him in 2012, Obama will be in a serious world of hurt.

[WeDidIt]

25. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

2012 will see a huge drubbing of whatever fucknut the Republicans put up.

[MNDemNY]

28. sure.

[dkf]

57. Of course I did. I ran the freaking precinct caucus too.

And I donated money. I put up signs in front of my house. I dropped off literature and canvassed. What did you do?

[MNDemNY]

22. HaHaHaHa.

That is funny.

[WeDidIt]

23. Yep, it's hilarious anybody would think Obama won't win in 2012 hands down.

Cracks me the fuck up.

Only Freepers and Firebaggers buy into that sort of bullshit.

[MNDemNY]

26. How do you figure, at this point he will win in a landslide?

His numbers are down, HCR will lose votes, he will not hold the "left" unless he does something drastic. Your math is funny.

[WeDidIt]

31. History.

Happened with Reagan. HAppened with Clinton. Happened with Bush Jr.

[MNDemNY]

32. Simplistic view, Par for this course.

[WeDidIt]

33. The American electorate is simplistic

Why the fuck do you think somebody like Rove could be successful with it for even a short while?

[MNDemNY]

41. Run on that, good strategy: " The Public are idiots, Vote for us!"

[tridim]

34. And the Republican party is worse off right now than ever before.

They're less popular than a tooth ache.

[WeDidIt]

37. Then you have Teabaggers hobbling an already paralyzed party

Everything adds up to Dem victories.

[rudy23]

5. Yay! A political victory!!!!

Now what is this going to do about my soon to be mandated, expensive, ineffective health insurance?

[tridim]

12. Just curl up in a ball and weep.

Nothing that happens will ever make you happy, so why even bother?

Your constant pessimism is extremely boring.

[rudy23]

29. Wow, getting a bit personal, huh?

You are so bored with my "constant pessimism" that you had to respond to it?

Actions have consequences. I'm pessimistic because of our government's actions. So are a lot of people. I'm bored with it, too.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oregone]

10. Or a couple of Supreme Court votes

But, eh, savor the pyrrhic victory

[freddie mertz]

15. They could after 2012, if they win the presidency.

Which is too far away to project.

That said, the main provisions would STILL not be in effect before 2014.


So they could, in theory, torpedo it a year in advance of final implementation.

[WeDidIt]

16. That'll never happen. n/t

[freddie mertz]

20. "It can't happen here," eh? Nothing is impossible.

[Jamastiene]

18. They have already tried to claim they won't touch HCR if they get

back in power...which means that is exactly what they will do. That's how Republicans operate. If they say they aren't going to do something, that's exactly what they plan on doing.

[Kansas Wyatt]

51. They will keep the mandates in place and allow the Insurance Industry...

To jack rates up a lot more, while they cut and gut all funding that actually helps people.

That is the only place this SHIT Bill is going, when the Republicans take over from this squandered opportunity.

[MNDemNY]

21. 2012.

Has that election already been decided?

[Edweird]

40. Why would they want to repeal the biggest act of privatization since Reagan?

If anything they get to brag about how Romney got his plan passed before he even ran for president. It's "game set match" alright.

[MNDemNY]

42. ....and so it goes....

[Edweird]

43. As if the bill itself isn't putrid enough, it leaves an opening for more RW deregulation.

Gotta let those 'free markets' work their magic, yanno. Repeal it? Not a chance. They'll just 'improve it'. And what a little slice of hell that will be.

[MNDemNY]

44. Next stop: the privatization of public education.

The vehicles? "Charter Schools"and "Vouchers". And our president and Congressional leadership will blaze the trail!!!!!

[TheKentuckian]

48. They have little desire to do anything but bash us in the head with this

They'll run against it and leave it in place other than to maybe slash the subsidies due to the "need" for deficit reduction while they run up the credit card on bogus bullshit that lines the pockets of the wealthy.

[librechik]

45. they wouldn't have to. All they would have to do is pretend to do it

in order to put a de facto hold on implementation. The Senate is a great place for cheaters looking for loopholes. I don't know how, but they will find a way, if they want to.

My hope is that the bill becomes so successful and popular that they can't. Of course that's silly, because it won't even be in force fully until 2014. So ultimately I have to believe NOBODY in the Senate at least wanted this bill in the first place and hope it fails. Which about confirms my low low low low low opinion of our legislative process at it exists today.

[Beacho]

46. Where did you get that information?

If the House and the Senate wanted to repeal any law, they could do so with a simple majority and a sign off from the President. Unless it's a Constitutional amendment, you can't write a law stating, "Nyah, nyah, you can't repeal me". Of course this assumes that there is the political will and support to do so. Come Jan 2013, *if* Obama is not re-elected (which I hope does not happen), it could be repealed in one afternoon. That applies to *every* law.

[Beacho]

47. BTW

You forgot the courts. The law, which it becomes when Obama signs it, is still subject to the courts. You do remember that there is another branch of government besides the Executive and Legislative, right?

[phasma ex machina]

52. +1

[Kansas Wyatt]

49. Enjoy your losses in 2010 & 2012

Barack Obama, and shit stain sidekick Rahm, took a golden opportunity and drove the Democratic Party right into the ground. This squandering of political capital is only rivaled by George W. Bush following 9/11. This is YOUR glory in history, yet you mock.

'Game, Set, Match.' = Bought and paid for by the Insurance Industry, and the American People know it.

Oh, and the Republicans will keep the mandate enforced, but will cut as much funding as they possibly can in the future that actually does help people. But you don't care, because you are moving up from your cubicle to an office and you got yours, so fuck everyone else.

We(Insurance Industry)DidIt

[Kansas Wyatt]

55. What Insurance Company do you work for?

Find out today that you're moving from your cubicle to an office?

What or who made you join the DU in 2008?

Do you get paid for the amount of posts you make and bonuses for long inflammatory threads?

A little advice... You are being too obvious, but there will still be consequences, no matter how hard you wish people would like getting drilled up the ass by the Insurance Industry through the U.S. Government.

[TheWatcher]

56. He's too childlike to take seriously.

And if he's getting paid for it, then whoever is paying him got ripped off, or is about as good a judge of talent as Matt Millen. (Detroit Lions fans will understand the analogy)