Conclusive Proof JFK photo is a hoax

[FreakinDJ]

They did not have string bikinis in the early 1950s



As you can see on the back of the woman behind her breast there is the very slim line of a MODERN DAY STRING BIKINI

What was called a Bikini in the 1950s was nothing like what we understand it today





You all have been had - sorry

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. wrong. sorry.

The photo is probably not JFK but people WHO SWAM NUDE sunbathed in all sorts of things, including the very racy European styles. Women at Cannes wore that sort of bikini bottom in the 1950s, for instance.

(Photos of Barbara Bush's friends at the beach not-withstanding.)

[FreakinDJ]

31. Photos from the beaches in 1950s

1952


the beach 1950

[EOTE]

92. You'll notice that there are no airplanes in those photos as well.

Therefore, according to your logic, AIRPLANES DIDN'T EXIST IN THE '50S!!!! My god that's some brilliant logic you're using! Really, you must be intent on making stupid an art form.

[FreakinDJ]

103. Not bad for the 1st person to determine it was a hoax

Do you have a vested interest in defaming JFK or some thing

[EOTE]

104. I'm a big fan of JFK.

Wouldn't have made a difference to me if the photo had been real, but I leaned towards it being fake. As for my vested interests, I've got a big one in exposing idiocy whenever I see it. Something you've been a font of as of late.

[FreakinDJ]

107. You have a lot of difficulty admitting you were wrong

all the well written replies in the world won't change the fact an easily Debunked photo had you convinced

1940-60 Corset Like Swimsuits

In the 1940s, corset manufacturers saw a gap in the market. Corsetry was losing ground, but the new more revealing swim suits really needed experts to design garments that hid faults in a woman's shape. They achieved this by adding stretch tummy control panels to hold in the stomach. Manufacturers also used bra cups and boning to give bust support. Costume could then be worn either strapless or with small straps that buttoned onto the inside.

Women still continued to wear all in one swimsuits in the 1950s. They also took great care to cover up their hairstyles with a swimming cap or bathing cap, usually holding their head well out of the water when swimming. The swimming caps shown left were decorated with plastic petals or leaves to make them appear prettier than a bald fitting bathing cap.

The bikini was still thought of as risqué and best suited to film stars and exotic dancers. Right - Corset like swimsuit 1950-60

The Bikini of 1946

Bikinis were seen in Crete thousands of years ago. After that pictorial evidence of 200 A.D., suggests that bikini clad women were cavorting in Sicily's Piazza Armerina.

The modern version was patented by Louis Reard in 1946. His design was more akin to the skimpy string 1970's bikinis. Bikinis made news then and as versions have become skimpier they have always attracted attention. When the Bikini was named its impact was likened to the test atomic explosion on Bikini atoll. Right - Cotton batik bikini worn by a teenager - 1980s

But its impact was nothing as radical as the G-string or even more revealing - the thong also called the Brazilian tanga. The tanga was worn more and more often in Europe and America in the 1980s and became very usual by the 1990s among the young. With it came a boon in pubic waxing and the Brazilian wax. Now in 2006 many women have taken this a step further opting for laser hair removal, which over the required sessions becomes permanently removed.

The introduction of Lycra initially promoted in the UK by Marks & Spencer has meant that Bikinis are flexible and mould to the body contour giving a better fit. Legs are cut higher now than ever before and frequently expose both bottom cheeks. Some garments are now so brief that women remain totally covered up by an oversized shirt or T-shirt or sarong wrap, removing it only for a timed sunbathing session.

http://www.fashion-era.com/swimwear.htm

[EOTE]

109. I was never wrong. I'm not a fan of speaking out of my ass.

I never said one way or the other as to the validity of the picture. I just thought it was damned stupid to claim the pic was bogus based upon clothing that had been in existence for at least a decade prior to the claimed date of the pic. You, on the other hand, have been proven wrong numerous times. I'm going to do it again because it's fun:

:spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini

[FreakinDJ]

112. Strippers wear all kinds of things you don't see on the beach

Yes they were invented in 1947 but thought too risky to wear in the USA. The photo was captioned "Bikini Lines" as in would you see bikini lines like those in the photo on women in the early 50s

So yes it was more then logical (and proven to be fact at this point) to question the tan lines as being out of period

[EOTE]

113. Wrong again. And many DUers have posted links to ordinary people wearing bikinis

and in the 50s too. You also might want to note that the song "Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" was made in 1960, years after bikinis were seen as acceptable. But keep trying, eventually you'll find a way to out-wrong even yourself.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EOTE]

118. Hey, when you find yourself in a hole, keep digging.

Brilliant strategy you've got there. Keep it up.

[FreakinDJ]

120. Its not strategy - its really sad - you need help

Any time anyone spends the time and effort you are venting across the volatile bliss known as the internet with the veracity and amount of effort you are demonstrating there is clearly a problem

I had my Happy Dance, it was childish and lots of laughs (for me) but obviously it has triggered some thing inside you. Some thing compulsive deep within

I feel sorry for you

[EOTE]

122. You say this after you spend the time to post THREE OPs on this subject?

You know, AFTER dozens of people had proven you full of shit? I'd say that if you are willing to devote so much time to proving your point AFTER dozens have proven you wrong, THAT'S a sign of insanity. You're the mental patient telling the wall that you're god. The wall doesn't really care, but everyone looking at you knows that you're nuts.

[winyanstaz]

123. I was a child in the 50s and went to the beach a lot...

didnt see two piece suits until the early 60s and then it was around the time the yellow poka dot bikini song came out..and the reason it was such a hit was it was such a novelty...you just didnt see bikinis in the 50's and only a few in the early 60's in Wyoming.
The bikinis were not that low cut either. They were a two piece but the navel was NOT legal to show in the united states until after the 60s.
Dancers could not show a belly button in clubs and even I dream of Jennie had to have her navel covered.

[EOTE]

128. I'm guessing you grew up in the U.S., then?

Is there any reason to believe this pic was taken in the U.S.? Also, by the time that bikini song came out, bikinis were already a fad. The song came out in 1960. Also, you mention Wyoming, if that's where you grew up, it's very little surprise that you didn't see a bikini until the 60s. I would like to challenge you on this law that forbade showing the navel until after the 60s. If you show me a link, I'd be more than happy to believe you, but I searched for it and found nothing of the sort.

Here are pictures from the 50s showing girls in string bikinis:

?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=38FCB2103A208D77818FFE6A906754404D446F5EA2D649F57A281EBCFDFDDE2C

?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=38FCB2103A208D77FDFBBA4EF022E25831749DDBD1F29E3F5409609EA7C5F4C1

[winyanstaz]

132. Yes I did grow up in america...

And in my youth I was a dancer at one of the first Whiskey-a-go-go night clubs...(yes I was concidered a bit of a "wild" woman back then because I danced... which is NOTHING like todays dancers) and women that showed their navels were ARRESTED and fined.
We were nothing like todays dancers in clubs. No topless allowed and NO navels and NO butt cheeks either.
We were not allowed to mingle with the customers and there was none of that lap dancing crap.
You actually had to know how to dance.
This is why I know navels were not legally exposed in America in the late 50's, early 60's.

[EOTE]

133. Once again, can you provide a link?

Perhaps you had some bizarre local laws living in Wyoming. I've searched and I can find no laws whatsoever pertaining to showing one's navel. If you can show me something other than your personal anecdote, I'd have no problem believing you.

[winyanstaz]

140. the laws vary as to the wording and reasons from state to state..

here are some links you may find interesting about the exposure of womens navels...
"Western world. As late as the 1930s, both women and men were largely prevented from bathing or swimming in public places without wearing bathing suits that covered above the waist. An adult woman exposing her navel was also considered indecent in the West up through as late as the 1960s and 1970s.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indecent_exposure


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=laws+regarding+female+navels&fulltext=Search

The laws vary from state to state and county to county in some places. I am not going to search all 50 states for you.
However please note that the display of women's navels is still against the law in many places around the world..not to mention here in America.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Midriff
Here is a nice article about navels and bikinis...
http://www.bikiniscience.com/chronology/1960-1965_SS/1960-1965.html


it is also illegal in most public schools to this day..

As an example, the dress code of the Sherman Independent School DistrictSherman Independent School District
Sherman Independent School District is a public school district based in Sherman, Texas .In addition to Sherman, the district also serves the village of Knollwood.-Elementary Schools, Grades PK-4**Crutchfield Elementary School...
in Texas requires that "there must be no exposure of the midriff area or undergarments. The midriff area must not be seen while bending over, while standing, raising arms, and stretching."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midriff

You see..even today, in many places we women are not allowed to decide about our own bodies or to show a belly button.

While in a few places there were no county or local laws about a womans belly button...there was the force of what was concidered "decent" that also stopped women from wearing the new bikinis for a long time. Yes it was very shocking when it came out in europe but it took many more years for it to be acceptable in America.

[EOTE]

142. Once again you provide nothing about the legal status in the 50s in the U.S.

"As late as the 1930s, both women and men were largely prevented from bathing or swimming in public places without wearing bathing suits that covered above the waist. An adult woman exposing her navel was also considered indecent in the West up through as late as the 1960s and 1970s."

There is a great difference between something being considered to be indecent and it being illegal. Also, public schools are allowed to create their own dress codes. That has nothing to do with federal or state laws. And once again, we're talking about America, not "many places". I wasn't looking for a report on women's navel acceptance, but nice that you would provide one anyway. I'll just take it that navel exposure has not been illegal in this country in the past century.

[winyanstaz]

145. tell that to the women arrested for indecent exposure for showing their navels...

sheesh....

[EOTE]

146. Link please?

I've only asked you a good half dozen times now. If women were arrested for indecent exposure for showing their navels, surely some law must have been on the books at the time. Or at the very least there should be evidence that they had been arrested for indecent exposure, yes?

[winyanstaz]

154. and for the last time...the laws vary from state to state and county to county...

If your so frigging great at searches..do you own homework..I am done with you and I already told you I am not searching every state..I already provided a lot of links and you can kiss off.

[EOTE]

156. You haven't provided a single link

that shows that exposing one's navel was illegal ANYWHERE in the U.S.. You've shown that exposing one's navel was considered unacceptable at one time, but many things are considered to be unacceptable but are still legal. You've also shown that exposing one's navel is illegal in other countries. Once again, you've provided NOTHING to back up your original assertion. And just how do you expect me to do my own homework by proving a negative? Do you want me to provide you every link on the internet and tell you that none of them show the law you profess to believe? Get real, you're wrong.

[EOTE]

147. Tell it to my grandpa who was arrested for showing his elbow!

Showing one's elbow was illegal in the '30s, ya'know? You're just going to have to take my word for it because I'm incapable of using a search engine.

[katkat]

153. remember I Dream of Jeannie?

They wouldn't let her show her navel in the genie costume.

You youngins have no idea how modest clothes were then in comparison to now.

[EOTE]

157. I wouldn't use television as a guide for what's illegal.

There are plenty of things that they won't show on prime time TV right now that isn't illegal. I have no doubt that showing one's navel was considered shocking at one time, but certainly not illegal.

[katkat]

160. did I say it was illegal? no, I did not. n/t

[EOTE]

161. No, but you seemed to be offering that up as a way of backing up someone who says it was.

If you weren't trying to say that, I don't know what the point of your post was. The poster I was responding to is trying to suggest that exposing your navel was illegals until the 70s in the U.S. I was asking for some sort of evidence of that, but the poster has provided nothing. It's just a ludicrous assertion.

[winyanstaz]

126. until the 1970's it was illegal to show the belly button in most states.

[winyanstaz]

125. you need your glasses checked....

there is definitely something in the sky in that one beach photo of the older gentleman walking above the beach.
Oh noz..does this mean airplanes DID exist?

[EOTE]

129. Does that look like a plane to you? Really?

Looks like a defect more than anything to me. If you think it's a plane though, it's your prerogative. I think you missed the point of my post though. Simply posting a picture and pointing out what the picture lacks is a pretty damned stupid way of proving what did or did not exist at the time. Wouldn't you agree?

[FreakinDJ]

135. Spit it Out EOTO - just Spit it Out

Now your stalking and attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you to attack me

I think this thread has you a little tipped over the edge

[EOTE]

137. Just what is it you'd like to know?

Want to tell me that this photo isn't real because hippo crabs didn't come to the mainland until the late 80s?

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Le Taz Hot]

2. You were already disproven here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7339929#7340158

[el_bryanto]

21. Thank goodness there are so many bikini experts at DU

I am thinking of taking up this sweet science myself.

Bryant

[FreakinDJ]

35. Who is looking dumb now....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail??blogid=95&entry_id=54215#ixzz0b0cSTyy3

[aikoaiko]

38. No one argued that the photo was genuine only your factual untrue statements

about the bikini not having been invented yet for a picture to have been taken in the 1950s.

[FreakinDJ]

39. The bikini wasn't common at all in 1950 - more like "Stripper Clothes"

mothers would be running from the beaches trying to cover their childrens eyes

and the tan lines just looked wrong

[aikoaiko]

42. I do concede that the picture is not what it was purported to be and you were right about that.

And of course you're right about the uncommon nature of bikinis in the 1950, but on the other hand if it were JFK and he were entertaining young women on a yacht, its very possible that these might be young women of a class and nature who would have scene Bridgitte Bardo in The Girl in the Bikini and get one immediately for that summer.

Kudos for you for being correct about the picture being from a different time.

[FreakinDJ]

43. He listened to his Dad too much to risk that - (my opinion)

He would have been waiting for the shoe to drop from Joe Kennedy too much to ever try that

Once he got ahold of the "Brass Ring" - POTUS he let his hair down

At least that is my beleif

and please excuse my Naturaly Ass Hole Demeanor.......

[EOTE]

48. That would still be you.

You know, the one who continues to insist that bikinis weren't around in the 50s when poster after poster has shown that they were invented in 1946. Yes, that's pretty much the definition of dumb.

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Good find.

Dumb story anyway.

[goldcanyonaz]

6. Not really, string bikinis were being worn during this time.

http://www.bikiniscience.com/chronology/1950-1955_SS/1950-1955.html

[FreakinDJ]

22. OK show us photos of ordinary women wearing them

We've seen a few Hollywood photos of women wearing them but show us some women actually wearing at the beach for some thing other then a photo op

[goldcanyonaz]

4. Of course they did. They began in Europe.

http://www.bikiniscience.com/chronology/1950-1955_SS/1950-1955.html

[Bluebear]

5. 'The bikini, which shocked when it appeared on French beaches in 1947'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini


From a 1949 Los Angeles Times report: "The bathing beauty queen—blond Bebe Shopp, 18, of Hopkins, Minn.—got an enthusiastic welcome in Paris, but she said she hasn't changed her mind about French swim suits. ... 'I don't approve of Bikini suits for American girls,' Bebe told her French interviewers. 'The French girls can wear them if they want to, but I still don't approve of them on American girls."


Bardot

[FreakinDJ]

20. Close but it is still not going to leave the sort of lines she has

the way the cups taper towards the back is very different

[havocmom]

45. My big sister had one that left those tan line. She got it before Jack was elected

And where we lived was hardly the home of avant-guard fashion, so the suits had been around in more fashionable places for some time prior to her purchase. And, yes, my dad nearly had a stroke when she wore hers to the back yard for some sun.

[dysfunctional press]

98. The modern bikini was invented by French engineer Louis Réard in 1946...

He named it after Bikini Atoll in the Pacific, the site of the Operation Crossroads nuclear weapon tests in July that year. The reasoning was that the burst of excitement created by it would be like a nuclear device.

from your wiki link.

[asjr]

7. To me she just looks naked.

[Warpy]

15. She is, but the tan lines give away the string bikini.

It's not inconceivable that a yacht owned by one of the richer families in the country would be fully equipped with string bikinis from the Riviera. You couldn't get away with wearing them on a public beach in the US, but you could use them to tan on a boat, eliminating the tan lines you'd get from a modest bathing suit of the day.

I'm afraid I don't find anything particularly scandalous about this photo, but I've gone skinny dipping in the ocean, myself. However, it would have torpedoed his career nicely had it been published in the 50s. The country was ridiculously prudish.

Fortunately, the press was much better mannered and preferred to report on real news than play "gotcha" with tabloid garbage.

[asjr]

27. Or if it had been a Republican president the

media would have played up his "assets."

[JHB]

8. Check the other thread on this...

...the one you copied your post there as the OP here.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7339929&mesg_id=7340158

Identified by aikoaiko:

Bridgitte Bardot 1952



Skimpy bikinis weren't exactly common swim togs back then, but they did exist.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. And women who leaped naked from boats probably sunbathed in skimpy togs.

[PCIntern]

34. The most interesting aspect of this photo

is that many young ladies today (and some if not most younger men) would consider this woman 'fat'...

Just remember that half of the budget for University Counseling is devoted to Eating Disorders. Today's models are impossibly thin

[Hannah Bell]

91. hardly.

[SidDithers]

9. I'm glad you posted this as a separate OP...

so that many more DU'ers can see just how wrong you were.

Sid

[goldcanyonaz]

17. LOL!

[MyNameGoesHere]

10. yeah okie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micheline_Bernardini


1946

[EOTE]

12. You've already been proven wrong. Why do you bring this up again?

Frankly, I wouldn't think any less of JFK if this were true. But why the need to try and disprove something on such silly grounds? Do you really believe that bikinis didn't exist back then?

[Solly Mack]

13. and from 300 CE

Ancient art depicts women wearing the garment as early as 300 CE



And from the 1946 debut of the bikini...a string bikini at that




http://www.slate.com/id/2145070/


http://www.bikiniscience.com/chronology/1945-1950_SS/LR4601_S/LR4601.html

[Bluebear]

16. The one on the left is Caesar Augustus, I think!!!!1

NOT PHOTOSHOPPED!!!!!!!!11

[Solly Mack]

18. lololololololololololol

You're great!!!!

[Starry Messenger]

148. Oh man, how did I miss this thread??

I'm crying from laughter here.

[grassfed]

32. Villa Romana del Casale!

I wondered about the bikini tops in these mosaics when I was there in July. Awesome place, not far from Piazza Armerina, a very spooky Da Vinci Code-esque mountain village. Thanks for the reminder.

[Solly Mack]

36. You're welcome!

[Hannah Bell]

105. which, per your link, no model would wear, so they hired a nude dancer--the last two photos--for the

debut.

[Solly Mack]

136. Yep. That's what it says.

[blogslut]

14. Sigh

First off, those aren't "string" bikini lines. The line on the side of that model's thigh is at least one, if not two, inches thick.

Second, there are more 1950's bikini photos than I could possibly hotlink so I'll just send you here:

http://www.bikiniscience.com/chronology/chronology.html

Granted, the navel-bearing bikini didn't hit the American mainstream until the early 60's but this photo was purportedly shot off the Mediterranean - meaning the young ladies were probably from fashion-forward Europe.

[HughMoran]

19. Ooooh! They're nakie! Ooooh!

I'm telling mommy!

:P

[MadHound]

23. My question for you is why you're so adament that this is a hoax?

Does it really matter? After all, JFK is dead, and besides we all knew/know that he was a lady's man anyway.

So why the big hyperventilating fest to try and disprove this picture as a hoax, it simply doesn't matter.

[FreakinDJ]

24. The tan lines just strike me as modern day

they just don't look right for that era

[MadHound]

It's in Europe, where the fashions weren't as prudish as they were here

Not to mention that despite the common perception of the fifties as uptight and upright, people did let their hair down a lot, just not publicly here in the US.

And I wouldn't consider that strap mark as coming from a string bikini. It's a good 2-3 inches wide, pretty common back in the day, especially outside the US.

[FreakinDJ]

33. The 1 next to her breast looks 1/4 inch wide

and the actual cup of the top looks way to short

Sorry it just doesn't look right for the period in my opinion

More will be told later as a few more experts look at the photo

[rfranklin]

26. He lived the life most men only dream about...

And I would rather have someone in the White House who did not sublimate his sexual urges into killing brown people.

[Thickasabrick]

25. I personally don't understand the "big deal" here. JFK was known

to love the ladies and there is a published letter to a friend about some hookers he was with in Mexico just as one example.

What is the big deal?

[DonkeyHoTay]

110. And here's his paramour MARILYN in a couple of bikinis...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DG0cVUd0pI&feature=related

Be patient... You'll see alot of poses in glam gowns before
the bikini shots, but they are indeed there! 

Doncha just love U-Tube? :-)

[AnOhioan]

28. You really need to get out more....

But if you insist on proving your ignorance...carry on.

[Justyce]

29. Hoax. Photo is from a 1967 Playboy photo shoot, verified by

Playboy.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/28/john-f-kennedy-playboy-photo-boat-nude-women/

[chowder66]

30. From Playboy, Vol. 14, No. 11, November 1967, p. 137

Playboy, Vol. 14, No. 11, November 1967, P. 137. (Article name "Playboy's Charter Yacht Party".)

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail??blogid=95&entry_id=54215#ixzz0b0cSTyy3

[blogslut]

37. According to post #29 and Playboy, I owe you an apology

Playboy says the photo is from a 1967 issue so there's no way the man in the picture could have been JFK.

However, I still stand by the fact that the tan lines of the bikini bottom were not from a string bikini and that navel-bearing bikinis were worn by average European women during the late 1950's.

[FreakinDJ]

40. are you a woman? because I'll grant a woman the expert opinion

in that department

I'm more of a connoisseur

[blogslut]

44. Yes

I am a woman.

Mind you, I agree that navel-bearing bikini bottoms were not common in the late 1950's and practically non-existent on American shores. What unnerved me was your insistence that the bottom tan line came from a string bikini. String bikini tops hit our shores long before string bikini bottoms and that one young ladies' tan line was most definitely not from a string tie.

It's all moot now. I'm hoping that DUer Amerigo Vespucci is able to get TMZ to cut him a big check for providing the color version from the Playboy layout.

I'm also hoping that TMZ gives us more details on who gave them that photo and why and I'm glad they corrected themselves as soon as they followed up and found out they were hoaxed. Not many news outlets correct themselves so publicly. And I suspect the "legitimate" news outlets who bought into the hoax will attempt to attribute their gullibility to TMZ's evil. evil ways.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Micheline Bernardini, ca 1946

[Hannah Bell]

106. she was a nude dancer, hired because no regular model would wear the thing.

[Stinky The Clown]

111. True enough ..... but the fact is, bikinis were soon in favor. Surely by the mid 50s.

[Hannah Bell]

138. not with average people. & not the kind in that picture. i lived then, i have photos.

bikinis (cut below the belly button & high on thighs/buttocks) didn't go mainstream until the 60s. which is the era the photo is from.

[winyanstaz]

127. that would have to be in europe I am thinking...

[fishwax]

46. the photo is fake, but the silliness about the tanlines doesn't prove it, since they did have such

bikinis in the 1950s :shrug:

[JHB]

47. It's not JFK, it's Bill Clinton

The Clenis does time travel.

[FreakinDJ]

49. Conclusive Proof a whole lot of DUers got duped

Ha Ha - Whos your Daddy Now!!!!!!!!!!!

:spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy:

Oh Ya - Its good to be Me !!

[grasswire]

50. for those of us coming late to this...

...could you provide a link to the place where the duping occurred?

Thanks.

[Bolo Boffin]

52. That's supposed to be JFK on the boat - but it's not n/t

[FreakinDJ]

53. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7339929&mesg_id=7339929

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7340392

[DJ13]

58. Here

http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/28/president-john-f-kennedy-photograph-jfk-photo-boat-yatch-nude-naked-women-mediterranean-sea-jackie-kennedy-ted-kennedy-senator-george-smathers-election/
The JFK Photo That Could Have Changed History | TMZ.com

[DainBramaged]

51. Is this something important?

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. To some, yes

:rofl:

[valerief]

55. Tres Loungesque. nt

[EOTE]

56. Conclusive proof you lack any sense of logic.

Your post is very much like saying that because Bush was beamed aboard an alien craft in late 2002 that the Iraq War is a fraud. Well, we know that the Iraq War is a fraud, but no because of that. Your original premise was that the photo had girls in bikinis, so it couldn't have been taken in the '50s (before the bikini was invented, according to you). Well, dozens of posters proved beyond a reasonable doubt that bikinis had been in existence for quite a while prior to the '50s, so your assertion was bullshit. I didn't know whether or not to buy into the pic of JFK, but my doubts to its validity had absolutely nothing to do with your bullshit assertion. Really, I don't know why you're not embarrassed by this.

[NewJeffCT]

57. Couldn't it be panty lines?

though, I'm not an expert on women's fashions & swimwear in the 50s and 60s

[Gman]

63. Women didn't start wearing bikini panties

until they had bikinis. And while the bikinis started in the early 60's or so, they have gotten progressively tinier and so have the panties (I've studied this issue in great depth with live subjects). The level of tiny of that tan line is way later than the 1950s.

[SidDithers]

73. Bridgitte Bardot in 1952 would disagree with you...

Sid

[POAS]

83. "The Girl in the Bikini" (1952)

First appeared on French beaches in 1947.

[FreakinDJ]

72. I still remember when my sister brought home a bikini in the 60s

The Humanity The Humanity The Humanity - it could fit in a "Sandwitch Bag"

They might have been around in the 50s but they were more like "Stripper Apparel" and not common what so ever on the beaches. At least not common enough to have distinct Tan Lines - (my opinion)

And yes in the early 70s (13 yrs old) I spent my summer at a nude beach

[AnOhioan]

59. Sorry cannot let FreakinDJ distort facts

The facts are:

Photo was published

FreakinDJ asserts photo is fake because bikinis were not invented in 1950's.

He was proven wrong multiple times.

The fact that the photo was taken in 1967 and does not feature JFK is irrelevant.

FreakinDJ is claiming success where none exists.



I do have to say thank you to the OP though. The ongoing discussion has livened up an otherwise boring afternoon.

[FreakinDJ]

62. Proof is in the Pudding

[AnOhioan]

66. I agree....all one needs to do is look back at your prior posts

Your argument was proven wrong. No amount of wishing will change that.


Have a good one :)

[FreakinDJ]

75. Truthfully - did you "Buy Into" the TMZ photo

because I didn't

Ha Ha - Whos your Daddy Now!!!!!!!!!!!

:spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy::spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy: :spank: :crazy:

Oh Ya - Its good to be Me !!

[AnOhioan]

78. Nor did I...I was correcting your statement about bikinis.

That was all. And even now, you just can't admit you were wrong. Sad.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreakinDJ]

86. Not at all I was Right - You were Wrong

[EOTE]

95. Who's your daddy? Are you for real?

It's not enough that you have the maturity of a 12 year old, but you have to reach back a good dozen years for your immature references too? How many times do you need to be proven wrong before you get it into your head? Here, I'll post the link proving you wrong a few times with hopes it might sink in. Let me include some emoticons as well, you seem to be a big fan of those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

Has it sunk in yet? Who am I kidding?

[AnOhioan]

96. +1

[dysfunctional press]

99. i think that there's was something else in your pudding- mainly a whole lot of 'teh stoopid'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini

The bikini, which shocked when it appeared on French beaches in 1947, dates back to antiquity, in Çatalhöyü and the Greco-Roman world. The modern bikini was invented by French engineer Louis Réard in 1946He named it after Bikini Atoll in the Pacific, the site of the Operation Crossroads nuclear weapon tests in July that year. The reasoning was that the burst of excitement created by it would be like a nuclear device.

:shrug:

[EOTE]

69. Thank you. I'd be quite embarassed if I were in FreakinDJ's shoes.

But I guess after being wrong for so long, you'll take what you can get.

It's kind of like in calculus when you're asked to show your work. He may have guessed at the correct answer, but his work is still all wrong. With my calc teacher in high school, I might have gotten 1 point out of 10 for the correct answer, but no more if my work was worthless.

[FreakinDJ]

84. And I've got proof I was RIGHT and you were WRONG

This WHOLE Thread is about me being right and YOU being WRONG

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7340392#7340474

Your logic is stunning

[EOTE]

90. Wrong again. You're like the Andretti of being wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini

Read it and weep, half-wit. 1946. That would be BEFORE the 1950s, making your entire argument null and void. I keep thinking that you can't possibly be this stupid, but you keep proving me wrong in that regard. Not only that, but you have the spelling and grammar skills of a 5 year old.

[valerief]

77. Bikinis WERE around in the fifties. Don't you watch old movies?

1946

[FreakinDJ]

80. What a Crock of Bull Shit - the editor even said he can't date that photo

Nice bit of disinformation there valerief

In your Haste you over looked the editor's notes for that photo - which I posted along with that photo in the other thread - and since you have been proven WRONG

I find this image from Bikini Science. I have tried to find out the picture's copyright status. I believe the picture was taken in 1946, because then the bikini was introduced. And the picture must have been taken in Paris. I don't have any other facts about it. If the picture is still under copyright protection in US, the copyright must have either been renewed in 1974 or restored in the 1990s. So there should be a mention about it in the archives. But I don't know the name of the photographer or the magazine that published the picture, so I don't know what to look for. The Bikini Science doesn't tell its author's e-mail address. That's why I can't contact him, and ask who was the photographer, and where the photograph was published

But Don't let any thing like the Truth stop you from posting

[valerief]

85. Okay, so I was hasty. Here you go!

How about 1958?

http://www.bikiniscience.com/models/BB19_SS/BB5810_S/BB5810.html



Or 1957?

http://www.bikiniscience.com/chronology/1955-1960_SS/CR5710_S/CR5710.html

[EOTE]

97. I wouldn't expect a response.

The OP has already posted pictures from the '50s that don't feature bikinis, so in his mind, that means bikinis didn't exist. I'm tempted to show him my Christmas pics for this year. He'd take one look at them and tell me that the computer hasn't been invented yet. I mean, they are rather conspicuously absent from my pics this year.

[valerief]

102. LOL!!!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EOTE]

116. Ha, you respond to a post not directed toward you and I'M the stalker?

I'm not trying to "exclaim" any sort of victory because I have no dog in the hunt. I am, however, rather intent on others seeing what idiotic behavior you're illustrating. Many people claimed the photo to be a fake and I read some rather convincing arguments to that effect. However, your argument was idiotic and boneheaded, and flat out wrong as has been shown dozens of times. Making these masturbatory threads regarding how right you were when everyone knows how wrong you are is a sign of a mental midget, and is definitely mentally ill behavior. But keep it up, I'm sure there are some on DU who aren't quite aware of just how ignorant you are.

[Junkdrawer]

60. But..but..Professor Jeff Sedlik sez it's REAL...

Forensic expert Jeff Sedlik told TMZ that he believes the print is authentic and shows no evidence of digital alterations. The photo is reportedly consistent with historic accounts of a vacation JFK took at the time while wife Jackie was pregnant.

...

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2009/12/28/recently-discovered-photo-said-jfk-vacationing-nude-women

Here's a video of him claiming it's real...
http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=b5d06d99-29ae-4628-8c6c-d99d8dc5bb99

Here's the good professor's homepage:
http://www.photographyexpertwitness.com/

Perhaps he would like to know JUST HOW BADLY HE WAS PUNKED!

[Gman]

61. Its a color pic?

Saw the story earlier today. I figured from the story it was an old black and white with creases and edges frayed from handling. This one is not what I imagined from the earlier description. This one is clearly not circa 1950s.

[MNDemNY]

67. 1967 playboy. "JFK" looks pretty good for being dead, and all.

[SidDithers]

64. Bikin's were still around in the mid 50's...

so, while you're right the photo is a fake, you're still wrong about bikinis.

Sid

[Lex]

65. If you even CARE about this you've been duped. nt

[havocmom]

68. bikini spam doesn't change history. The scanty swim-wear has been around a LOOOONG time

and knowledgeable wearers would be hip to the fact that ya gotta take them off before jumping in, or you get a snuggy from hell, or loose both top and bottom.

[Sebastian Doyle]

70. Can't believe TMZ was that sloppy.

They usually research their sleaze better than this. Did Harvey take the week off?

[AllentownJake]

71. More like it was a professional photo

and I doubted a sitting Senator wanted to have one of that in the mid 1950s.

[msongs]

74. "..a delicious luncheon of baked cowfish.." - ya, somebody got duped lol nt

[havocmom]

76. when was Pikinni Atoll first commonly called Bikini Atoll?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll

...

Bikini Island is the northeastern most and largest island of Bikini Atoll. It is the best-known and most important island of the atoll, and measures about four kilometres. About twelve kilometres to the northwest is Aomen, the first island in that direction, and to the south of Bikini is Bukonfuaaku.

Bikini Island is well-known for being the subject of nuclear bomb tests, and because the bikini swimsuit was named after the island in 1946. The two-piece swimsuit was introduced within days of the first nuclear test on the atoll, and the name of the island was in the news.<1> Introduced just weeks after the one-piece "Atome" was widely advertised as the "smallest bathing suit in the world", it was said that the bikini "split the atome".<2>

Hate to say it, but the bikinis first seen on US beaches were not always the same ones seen in less Puritan influenced areas. And the skimpy has been around a spell

[POAS]

88. I doubt a yacht as pictured in the

photo in question was occupied by folks of a Puritan influence.

Not saying the photo is as purported to be but to claim it is a fake because if bikini tan lines is ROFL material.

[havocmom]

89. Yep, and agree the bikini tan line point is a silly path to disproving the photo claim

It probably says more about winter in the states lacking sufficient eye-candy then serious investigation and analysis :rofl:

[POAS]

93. There is also no evidence presented

(of which I am aware) that the photo in question was even taken in the US, it could be anywhere in the world including the French Riviera.

[havocmom]

94. OOOooo la la jumpin jimmeny, you have a point

A Chinese friend with a French dad told me of the family's move from China to France in '49.

Her sisters bought bikinis shortly after the move. ;)

[POAS]

100. And it's not like the Kennedys couldn't

afford a trip to the Mediterranean.

As they say, when in Rome..or Paris, Monoco, Rio, etc., etc.

[havocmom]

101. or the South Pacific....

The application of the American version of the bikini available in the 50s just cracks me up. So narrow a cultural frame.

[OregonBlue]

81. What is it from? I'm confused. I actually didn't care one way or another to begin with but just

wondering where it's from. I don't see a link. Who snookered TMZ?

[onehandle]

82. I knew I saw that photo somewhere before. nt

[lapfog_1]

87. Before this whole thing erupted this am

last night I saw the TMZ report on Huffpo, and my first thought was "bikini lines on two of the girls in the middle 1950s???", so I went and did a quick research of the topic and to my surprise found that bikinis were "invented" shortly after WWII (1947) and were done so in a response to the lack of material for making bathing suits in Europe.

However, the girl seen jumping into the water had not just a bikini tan line but a "tiny weeny bikini bottom" (though not a G-string), and I wasn't so sure about it. But then I figured "not enough information to conclude" and left it at that. In addition, while the male figure seen on the chair looked sort of like JFK, the photo wasn't near good enough to be proof positive, and JFK's "look" was very popular with men in that era.

The final comment is that the TMZ photo show the girl on the "sundeck" lying athwart-ships is nude. Someone went to the trouble of photoshopping her bottoms (clearly visible in your photo) off before creating an B&W image on old paper stock. The thing is, this isn't some misidentification but a clear attempt to further destroy a Democratic icon (one still very popular with a certain age group and certain ethnic groups). The right will stop at nothing to discredit any democrat, even ones long dead.

TMZ expert Prof. Sedlik needs to have his credentials investigated. He claimed that no photoshopping was done. But clearly there was some.

BTW, where is the source of your color photo original.

And, finally, you have a very good memory.

[bridgit]

108. Dang, well I hope this doesn't overturn the Celery + Gravity = Art theory of life

[SpookyCat]

117. Ah no, certainly not! Art Frahms brilliance shall not be in question! :-)

[SpookyCat]

119. By gar, I ain't seen such a stubborn denial of empirical evidence since Seabuiscuit!

Confound it, ya gotta respect the tenacity!

[bigwillq]

121. Can someone seriously tell me

why I should care about this photo and what exactly is the historical importance of it? :shrug: Seriously, not being snarky here. I haven't yet read in full the links to this story, but I don't yet see what the big deal is.

[DRoseDARs]

159. I think it has something to do with debunking the well-documented JFK history of being a playboy.

Clumsy, very clumsy.

[asdjrocky]

124. This wins the dumbest argument I've ever seen on DU award.

Come on dude, you're giving DJs everywhere a bad name. Really lame.

[juno jones]

130. The photopaper 'verification' cracks me up.

It is not too hard to obtain photopaper from that era. My grandpa, who had been an amateur B&W photographer died a few years ago and left a huge pile of old paper and equipment he had hoarded from that time period.

Given the ubiquity and ease of buying funky old stuff from e-bay or craigslist, I doubt the fakers even had to search very hard for the forgery materials.

[Wind Dancer]

131. Dumbest thread ever! n/t

[taterguy]

141. Does that mean all my threads that people claimed were the dumbest ever are no longer in first place

:cry:

[EOTE]

143. Sorry man, you'll have to settle for second.

But in order to provide some consolation, you were facing some pretty damned stiff competition.

[taterguy]

144. I'll be back in first place if someone proves this thread is a hoax!

:bounce:
... .... :bounce:
........ ....... :bounce:

[DainBramaged]

134. We've become Huffington Poo Underground.....

[BrklynLiberal]

139. ROTFLMAO!!! Excellent..

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

152. The fact that bikinis existed doesn't mean they were in common use.

The year the bikini was introduced (1947), no model would wear it. The designer had to hire a stripper.

The first picture isn't 1955, it's Bardot at 18 = 1952. She's an unknown & this is cheesecake publicity for her first film - risque stuff for the time. From your link:


"If anybody must get credit for popularizing the bikini in the world it is French actress Brigitte Bardot. The bikini becomes such an integral part of Bardot's career that she becomes The Bikini Girl, a title which perhaps derives from her leading role in the movie Manina, La Fille San Voiles (Manina, the Girl without a Veil) and later retitled simply The Girl in the Bikini (BB5201). And remember, BB isn't just The Bikini Girl, she's the first to wear that title.

Bardot because modeling shortly after becomming a teen and gathers her first cover, for Elle none the less, when she is 14 years old. The Girl in the Bikini is Bardot's second movie, and the bold 18 year old is strident about taking the bikini to the real beach, somewhat of a revolution in the early 1950s. The following year she gets her wish when filmmaker Roger Vandim brings her to Cannes for a photo opportunity (BB5310) that introduces her as a bikini-clad wild child. She is a sensation..."


Bardot didn't become a big star until 1956 (& God Created Woman). The novelty & "shocking" aspect of the bikini can be seen by the onlookers watching the still mostly unknown (first film = 1952) 19-year-old Bardot pose in 1953 in Cannes:



I remember when "God Created Woman" came out. It was "shocking," & that was the selling point. Her earlier film, "Girl in the Bikini" (1952) was pretty obviously selling sex & the novelty of the bikini, & this was in relatively more "liberated" Europe:



It's this kind of thing that made bikinis trendy for the european high bourgeosie & the film set (but not the masses, not immediately). The kind of rich trendy people who hung out on the French Riviera.

From your link:

"After 1947 the Cannes International Film Festival added international attention, and by the early 1950s it becomes a place for starlets to be discovered (BB5310, UA5410). It is here the bikini is first flaunted on the real beach. In the early 1960s movie stars pamper the world press (NW6310), while starlets from all over the world vie for the attention of hordes of paparazzi (L196210).

For a fledgling American men's magazine, the Riviera provides a chance to glimpse into a sexual culture more liberated than America--of aristocratic young women on wearing bikinis as revealing as those of American pinup stars--except they were wearing them on a real beach (PB6210, PB6230). It was not obvious, in 1962, that America would follow suit (pun intended)."


i.e. it wasn't until the early 60s that bikinis became generally accepted on the riviera & similar "eurotrash" hangouts, & later than that elsewhere.


The second picture isn't a bikini. That kind of two-piece covering the navel was worn in the 40s, even in the US.


The third picture is a "pin-up" photo, i.e. lite porn. The attire of pin-ups wasn't worn by ordinary women.

"Beside the lattice-side, pin-up media after 1950 also begins to experiment with silhouettes which will become mainstays in the following decade--like this sidegather bikini that combines gathers in both the front of the bandeau as well well the sides of the nombril (US5001), or this sidetie (US5056).

Barbara Frreking is a popular bikini model of the early 1950s, although one wonders if she dare walk down the beach wearing this bikini."


So while the OP is wrong that bikinis didn't exist, he's quite right that they weren't common until the late 50s in (some parts of) Europe (among certain types of people), & the 60s in the US. & not "string" bikinis either, just regular ones. String bikinis were later.


You can't just look at some photos & leap to general conclusions.

[omega minimo]

155. Nobody called the bathing suits in your OP photos "bikinis" EVER

if you're gonna tell people they're duped, get your terms right.

[DRoseDARs]

158. Even MORE photographic proof:

Take special notice of the freckles on the pear's ass. The product of nude sunbathing since bikinis weren't available.