You want your tinfoil, got your tinfoil right here....

[Aviation Pro]

...who would benefit the most if "the most dangerous man on the planet," Farouk Whatever, tortured soul from Nigeria, had been successful in his attempt (After the CIA sat on a report on his activities for five weeks before the event)?

Oh, how about a motherfucking troll who lives 10 minutes away from Langley? This motherfucking troll:



Here's the link to the report: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/29/airline.terror.cia/index.html

[BeFree]

1. Huh? The CIA sat on a report?

Damn.
Ya know the CIA sat on a bunch of reports just before 9/11, too?
This is not the change I voted for.

[Aviation Pro]

2. Yes, it was reported tonight.....

...and that the father had met twice with CIA officials.

And this is not a repeat of August 2001, the President was visibly angry during his comments today. He was never informed and the report was never disseminated past the analyst desk.

[BeFree]

11. Caught a blurb on the booby...

..Obama sounded pissed. Something about systemic failure? Knew it was about the flight, but didn't know the bg. Thanks.

That's what that was, the CIA failed the country, again?

[JDPriestly]

135. I do not like everything that Obama has done, but I trust him to fix the

systemic failure. I generally trust him on foreign policy. There is a lot of dirt to be cleaned out of our government at all levels. I believe that Obama studied international relations as an undergrad. He is more knowledgeable about these matters than any other recent presidents -- except maybe Kennedy and the first Bush. The first Bush was not a really bright man -- much to rigid in his thinking regardless of his raw IQ score -- to comprehend the information he had accumulated over his lifetime. So Bush I was clever in foreign policy, but had little real understanding of how to conduct it.

I still have hope for Obama in this area.

But, I am afraid that we will never be perfectly "safe." Having been an extremely protective mother of my two children, taking every precaution, I know that there is such a thing as being overly protective. It is a matter of balance.

It seems to me that the failure in this situation was again, one of human judgment at a low bureaucratic level. Humankind will never reach perfection to a degree that keeps humans perfectly safe in all situations.

[BeFree]

161. Ha!!

My tin foil works better than yours!!

Right, we will never be perfectly safe. So what this is about is politics.
Who will make the most from it. The pubbies are gearing up to make an avalanche of this relatively minor matter, and we need to get ahead of them, fast.

And the idea that the CIA dropped the ball or sat on this is a bit freaky, given what has happened in the past. It may, or may not, have been a low level decision. But we need to get it straight how it happened.

[JDPriestly]

175. I agree that we need to get straight how it happened.

Questions are perfectly reasonable under the circumstances.

[Arctic Dave]

13. Whaaaa!

:wow:

The more the timeline plays out the less nutty the tinfoilers and CT's look. Maybe 911 was a LIHOP.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. At least..

MIHOP..

I do love my tinfoil hat..:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[crikkett]

122. "Maybe 911 was a LIHOP."

There are people who think that WTC was the site of the 3rd Solomon's Temple.

These people say that while 1/1/01 was the New Millenium for us, 9/11/01 marked the New Millenium for occultists (who honor Egyptian myths etc)... astronomically speaking it marked the the rising of Sirius with the Sun.

[phasma ex machina]

159. "There are people who think that WTC was the site of the 3rd Solomon's Temple."

Intriguing. Thanks for sharing.

[Javaman]

100. sounds like Obama should clean house...

but alas, that will never happen.

[shadowknows69]

128. No doubt. Cheney had his own secret wing of the CIA that should be clear.

[defendandprotect]

162. Agree --

[defendandprotect]

105. Another hand selected "patsy" and if Obama actually believes this farce . ..

we're in a lot of trouble --

And, folks --- how many farces before this one --???

[kestrel91316]

3. The CIA probably still considers Cheney president.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Or at least a faction

when real life gets stranger than fiction...

[Echo In Light]

67. Remember many of these Corp pirates were big players going back to Iran/Contra/Oct Surprise, etc

[pjt7]

172. Why Did Obama name a 100% political guy to "clean" up

the CIA, espcially one that has no teeth.

Big Leadership FAILURE (IMO)

[Ian David]

6. The CIA sat on it because they WANTED a terror attack on Obama's watch.

And don't forget, the bomber dude visited TEXAS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4203073

[BeFree]

33. Hmmm

There are a bunch of Cheney acolytes still in the CIA.

[hughee99]

65. And I remember during the campaign, Obama visited Texas...

Hmmm, maybe they're in on it together? :sarcasm:

[leveymg]

69. This wasn't just the CIA - National Counter-Terrorism Center (NCTC) got a cable from State, as well.

Whenever such a cable reporting a terrorist threat comes in, it's supposed to be analyzed at NCTC, run by Mike Leiter, and if the Center analyst finds it significant it will be disseminated to the intelligence community and law enforcement agencies. What appears to have happened is that when the bomber's father reported him to the US Embassy in Lagos in November, the CIA station there along with the State Department both created reports. The CIA report would go to the CIA Counter-Terrorism Center in Langley and Tysons Corner, meanwhile DOS reports go to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security at Foggy Bottom. Both agencies are supposed to Cc such reports to the NCTC which is under the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Dennis Blair for a decision.

When the report came in from Lagos, the analyst would see that the UK had the guy on a watch-list as someone whose visa was pulled as the result of alleged fraud or in eligibility. In itself, that would not be a reason to add him to the terrorist watch-list. However, when you put this together with the report that he was consorting with al-Qaeda in Yemen, that would be a red flag and reason to at least notify State Dept to cancel his US visa and do a deeper investigation. I am very alarmed that was apparently not done.

Therefore, the decision to not disseminate the report was probably made by a staff person at NCTC, and DOS would not have pulled his visa and TSA would not have watch-listed him. Thus, CIA and DOS both "sat on" their own reports.

That's one explanation. Another is that CIA was using this guy to gather information, or as part of some operation, and he was helped to board the flight - that's what happened with the 9/11 hijackers. I would like to see the security camera footage at Amsterdam Airport and read the FBI interviews of the airline ticketing manager there before drawing any firm conclusions. What are the chances of getting that material released?

[defendandprotect]

106. Thanks for keeping us posted on this farce ---

[Beetwasher]

142. I'm hoping this could be used to

Smoke out some of Dick's moles. Assuming this was a Cheney operation. He's certaainly behaving as if it was.

[janet118]

145. I saw the interview . . .

with the very believable couple who witnessed the potential bomber being accompanied by an "Indian man" at the airport in Amsterdam who vouched for him because he didn't have a passport. Very curious. Also strange was how quickly he "confessed" to being part of an Al Qaeda plot. Strange days, indeed.

[leveymg]

178. Here's the link to that interview. Yes, they seem very credible. Strange days, indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAtK7FFDukQ

These certainly seem to be sober and credible eyewitnesses. This is adding up to one big WTF?

If what these people are saying is true, this is very strange, indeed. Put the pieces together -- 1) the statement that the bomber had no passport (but the official accounts say he had a US visa, which implies a PP or travel document), 2) the witnesses report he was given special handling to board the flight, 3) he wasn't searched, 4) the other passengers were allowed on with water bottles and without having their shoes X-rayed, 5) the bomber was named on a UK watch list that is shared with the US, 6) the US was warned weeks ago about this guy's ties to al-Qaeda (CIA has had some knowledge of him as long ago as August) -- and you appear to have another 9/11 type operation. And, I don't mean strictly an Al-Qaeda operation.

[Soylent Brice]

74. yowzas!

[JDPriestly]

137. Trying to destroy an aircraft is the charge.

He is being held at the federal prison in Milan, Mich., charged with trying to destroy an aircraft. A hearing to determine whether the government can obtain DNA from him was postponed until Jan. 8 without explanation.

Calling Abdulmutallab's action an "attempted act of terrorism," Obama, who is on vacation in Hawaii, declared: "The United States will more than simply strengthen our defenses. We will continue to use every element of our national power to disrupt, to dismantle and defeat the violent extremists who threaten us."

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/80251802.html

I hope they throw the book at this guy. When he realizes that he faces a lifetime in a dreary American prison or worse, he will be very cooperative in discussing how he got where he is.

They need to keep him locked up and hold his trial in a high security prison facility. Actually, I don't think there will be much of a trial. The evidence of his plot can easily be seen on his own body. There are numerous witnesses. Seems to me he will appear a couple of times and get a plea bargain.

Now this kid has to live with the repercussions of what he has done.

[Ian David]

144. What if his defense is, "I didn't know my penis would explode when I lit it?" n/t

[JDPriestly]

176. Self-defense from a crime one commits against oneself and others is no defense.

I can think of only one possible defense but he would never be able to find the evidence; he would not be able to prove what he needed to persuade a jury on it. So, his case is really hopeless unless some tremendous twist or turn develops -- like that Cheney made him do it or something very unlikely of that absurd nature.

[mopinko]

24. you think you voted for the cia?

bwahahahahahaaa. votes? cia don't need no stinkin' votes.

[BeFree]

31. Um

Just in case, the 'change' thing was meant as humor.

[mopinko]

38. well you never know around here, but

i thought it was funny.

[Jamastiene]

83. Oh

Please disregard my comment then...other than the fact that it is mostly true as far as the stinking, rotten, nasty CIA goes.

[mother earth]

133. not when they've got machines

[EmeraldCityGrl]

36. NEVER underestimate Cheney.

He's a cunning, sly, deceitful megalomaniac. We have not heard the last of him.
The sooner he bites the dust the better. I have no problem making that statement.

[gateley]

40. I don't believe in evil, per se, but I make an exception for Cheney. Evil incarnate.

I was just wondering the other day why he's still living in (essentially) DC?

[loudsue]

55. I'm convinced the man isn't really human.

His health has been way too bad for way too long, and I don't know how he's even still standing, except that he isn't ...um...one of us.

He's got to be from the evil star or something.

[gateley]

57. I don't want him to die -- in fact that's one of my fears. I want him to suffer

and WISH he were dead. I'd ideally like to see him tried, convicted, sentenced and do time, but since that most likely won't happen, I'll settle for him being physically in pain and agony. Too much to ask for him to be emotionally/spiritually in agony because as you note, he's from the evil star.

[smirkymonkey]

77. I was just wondering the other day why he was still living at all.

With that diseased ticker and all that toxic evil flowing through his veins, it's amazing he's still breathing on his own.

[Capt. America]

104. "More machine than man, evil and twisted"

[Jamastiene]

160. I swear I think he's half cyborg/half rabid zombie.

The man ain't right.

[SharonAnn]

174. That's why he's sometimes called "Darth Cheny". More machine than man.

[nannah]

94. proof that there is no god: dick cheney is still alive. n/t

[jgraz]

71. We need to start seriously talking about liquidating the CIA.

Shut it down. Shut the whole motherfucker down.

[defendandprotect]

107. Agree with you -- absolutely . . .

Evidently for decades they've been targeting anyone in Congress who gets that idea!!

[Stephanie]

155. Liquidate Cheney

A bucket of water should do it.

[jgraz]

163. Just tell him he's been drafted.

He'll drown in his own pee.

[Jamastiene]

80. The CIA is a rogue organization that does whatever the hell it wants to do.

Oh, they do what the Republicans tell them to do, but I can't think of a Democrat they haven't hated and disregarded yet.

[loudsue]

101. The republicans don't tell THEM, they tell the republicans...who are their moral

and philosophical brothers/sisters, i.e., bush senior. The republican party is mafioso simply because they are the same fascists as the CIA. That is why it is so important to get the corporations out of elections, on all levels, which is precisely what the CIA will never allow to happen.

[defendandprotect]

108. And now there are a few levels of "intelligence" organizations above them . . .

maybe just to confuse things -- but they're there!!

[electropop]

103. Yeah, but before 9/11 they had a good excuse.

Cheney had them busily cranking out the fake WMD memos for the runup to Iraq. He needed that stuff ready to go on 9/11.

[defendandprotect]

109. Interesting how the CIA "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Within US" document survived . . .

or maybe it was just CYA for Tenet --

who went on to his great reward for failing to stop 9/11 with the Freedom Medal???

[electropop]

111. Yeah, somebody didn't get the memo to kill the PDB.

That one piece of evidence would be plenty to put Bush away forever. If we, you know, lived in a functioning democracy.

[RaleighNCDUer]

141. You say that as if you think the president has any control over the CIA. nt

[Aviation Pro]

4. Gee, how assclownian....

...an unrec.

[Maraya1969]

47. I'll see your unrec and add a rec. Thanks for reminding me.

[laughingliberal]

52. me too

:)

[truebrit71]

58. me three

:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

110. +4 -- now + 113

[whatchamacallit]

5. Who unrecs this, DU's Cheney fans?

:wtf:

[Aviation Pro]

9. Nah, unrecs are now personal regardless of the content....

....the key is to just give a shout out to the asshats and assclowns and don't take it personally.

[11 Bravo]

41. Ain't that the fucking truth?

More unrecs are based on the username of the OP, than on the content of their posts. It's a joke.

[grantcart]

87. If I don't get atleast 20 unrecs I fucked up somewhere

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. Actually, this incident reeks of a Bush Crime Family setup

This guy is the son of a wealthy Nigerian banker and ex government official. Any ties between the father and the CIA/Bush Crime Family??

Osama Bin Laden - son of a Bush Crime Family friend in the Saudi construction business

John Hinkley Jr - son of a Bush Crime Family friend in the Colorado oil business

There are certainly precedents here.... :tinfoilhat:

[bertman]

29. Dad was the one who tried to turn Junior in. Slight, but important difference, I think.

[Ikonoklast]

30. Nothing to do with oil and money, I'm sure of it.

And drug money is NEVER laudered through Nigerian banks.

Oh, my, never ever.

The CIA never, ever, ever uses drug money to fund operations off the books.

That would be illegal.

[Jamastiene]

84. You are joking, right?

[Ikonoklast]

131. I would never demean the Glorious CIA and all their accomplishments.

As a loyal citizen of this country, I firmly believe everything the Shadow Government does is in the best interests of the general populace, and for that I am entirely grateful.

I sleep better at night safe in the knowledge that the CIA has no other agenda other than to serve and protect the average citizen of The Homeland.

It is also calming to know that those career functionaries of the Agency have no hidden loyalties or ties to politicians that are no longer in government.

Thankfully, none of them are operating in direct contradiction to the current legally elected executive branch, or are undermining the current chief executive by either withholding or distorting intelligence.

That would be wrong.

[noise]

153. And we should be grateful for the 4th estate

Their relentless reporting prevents corruption from getting a foothold.

[Ikonoklast]

166. Oh, my goodness, yes!

As we all well know, it is certainly illegal for agencies such as the CIA to have print and network journalists on the payroll to put a certain spin on issues, while hiding the fact that they are little more than paid flacks.

The CIA and those in the executive branch that control it would never dream of having anyone in the media privy to any national security secrets, and use that classified information to slyly undercut and question the motives of covert operatives who aren't co-operating by skewing the facts to support an opinion already arrived at by those in power.

No one with the stature and gravitas as, say for instance, the late lamented Robert Novak, a man independent of mind and spirit, would ever stoop so low as to become propaganda minister for certain political factions within our government, in order to shape public opinion into supporting illegal activities and war.

Heaven forbid!

What a world that would be!

[Jamastiene]

154. Yer scarin' me.

:scared:

[Hekate]

129. "That would be wrong," said Tricky Dick, shaking his dark jowls. Oh yeah.

:eyes:

[waiting]

35. The Family or the "Fellowship" has Nigerian connections as well

And has strong CIA connections. And they are not, I repeat not, fans of Obama. I don't doubt for a second that this type of shit is taking place at present. I certainly wouldn't doubt that former detainees at Guantanamo from Yemen, that were released by the Bush administration, were not carrying out CIA missions or at the very least the CIA is responsible for allowing known hostile terrorists to go free and cause future threats to us.

[tomp]

50. excellent point. nt

[peekaloo]

68. I said to someone yesterday this was Nigeria's version of John Hinckley.

[defendandprotect]

112. Yes . . . reminded me of Hinckley also --

[nashville_brook]

86. the banker family thing jumped out at me too.

[MetaTrope]

164. A wealthy Nigerian banker who ran the country's largest bank

And before that, managed United Bank for Africa, the continent's global bank.

Before that, a government minister for economic development. Before that, manager at the New Nigeria Development Company, which controls the country's oil and mineral resources. And before that, financial controller of Defence Industries Corporation, the Nigerian government's arms manufacturing branch. He's still chairman of several other corporations, including the automotive manufacturer Incar Nigeria, the construction company Impresit Bakolori, and water supplier Spring Waters Nigeria.

Don't see where any of that would position him to work for the Bushies... :sarcasm:

[TheKentuckian]

10. Tinfoil? More like thinking cap

[Just-plain-Kathy]

14. I like the way you think. It's smart to question everything. ...n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

22. Yep.

[goodgd_yall]

12. This occurred to me the other day

And I'm surprised I didn't think of it sooner. Just the idea of the guy getting through airport security made the light go on---someone made
sure he got through without a problem. And, as you say, who would most benefit. A terrorist attack on Obama's watch is Cheney's dream come true.
The information on the CIA involvement just lends more strenghth to this theory.

[Davis_X_Machina]

15. CIA hated Cheney -- he was in their faces...

...all during late 2001 and 2002 demanding they find an Al Qaeda-Iraq tie so he could have his war.

[havocmom]

37. The CIA is not one mindset, one voice, one agenda

Some probably hate dick (with good reason) but it seems logical some in the agency serve him. Ideology is not fixed in time. Some CIA work for the team (America), some work for themselves. Same as in any large organization.

[go west young man]

54. Rethink that. Porter Goss and Cheney are long time pals.

[librechik]

91. The BushCo faction of the CIA doesn't give a shit about the rest of the CIA

or the US, for that matter. They have other priorities. to quote Cheney.

[defendandprotect]

114. No . . . officials were making sure that Cheney had his way with those origindary folks

responsible for intelligence gatherings -- as Cheney badgered them . . .

and their supervisors were present!!

Cheney made unprecedented personal visits to the CIA!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

146. Are you forgetting Goss's purge of the ranks when he became

Director in 04?

[Parker CA]

16. Odd too that Cheney and his daughter haven't been out plastering their thoughts on the news

about this attempted attack. Why talk up a storm and then when something finally happens, not utter a peep?

This is scary stuff if what's being posed in this thread turns out to be reality.

[Aviation Pro]

25. Also odd that Sarah Dumbass hasn't said anything either....

...as another motherfucker who would have benefited.

[GoCubsGo]

73. She has other issues keeping her busy...

Like her continued battle with a certain teen-age boy.

:popcorn:

[pundaint]

81. Gee I never miss the absence of a Cheney

Please don't wake them

[defendandprotect]

115. Reflect: Cheney constantly reminded us that the right wing creates our REALITY . . .!!!

and we have to deal with it --

yeah -- I think they dumped this in Obama's lap --

and he now has to figure out what level of betrayal this was and who he

can trust from here on out!!

[malaise]

17. Well didn't Pete Hoekstra send out letters begging

for campaign funds with the underwear bomber as the reason for giving.

This stinks

[Rage for Order]

18. Um...the CIA, or the State Department?

From the article linked in your OP:

"U.S. officials said the father, a former Nigerian banker, expressed his concerns about his son's radicalization during at least one meeting and several calls with officials at the embassy in Nigeria."

Who's responsible for running our embassies overseas, the CIA or the State Department? The article then goes on to say:

"The information on AbdulMutallab had been sent to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, but it sat there for five weeks and was not disseminated, the source said."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal for the CIA to conduct operations within the borders of the United States? Isn't that why we have the FBI?

Seems to me, the "officials" at the embassy in Nigeria who spoke with the guy's father should have contacted the TSA and FBI - in additiona to the CIA - with this information.

:shrug:

[Arctic Dave]

39. Having CIA agents in a foreign embassy isn't running operation in the US.

They are usually just staying there.

This has been a standard for decades.

[Rage for Order]

42. Did you read the story at the link you posted?

The bomber's father had at least one meeting and several phone calls with embassy officials. Who oversees embassy officials, the CIA or the State Department? I'll give you a hint - it's not the CIA. Do you think the CIA was the only government agency that had a report from the embassy's meetings with the terrorist's father? It seems more likely that the CIA report was one of several that would be generated.

Why didn't the State Department alert the FBI of an imminent attack within the borders of the United States?

[Flatulo]

124. Now, now, don't start using logic and reason. The CT crowd is on a roll.

I wish Cheney would drop dead just to see how long DUers will continue to pin every crime imaginable on him after he's maggot fodder.

[JDPriestly]

139. The State Department oversees the embassies, but

embassies have CIA representatives and departments that are most likely independent. Don't you read history? If you even watch silly spy movies you know this. These agencies are supposed to work together. There appears to have been a break-down within the CIA on this.

[RaleighNCDUer]

147. Do you really think the CIA is the least concerned with bureaucratic

procedures, chain of command, and obeying the law? State may run the embassies, but I'd give odds that at least 25% of US non-military personnel at those embassies are CIA. And, those persons are exactly the ones someone would talk to, coming to the embassy with info like this - they're not going to be talking to the guy that processes visas. If the CIA wants this kind of info to be mis-directed, their people in the embassy can do it.

[JDPriestly]

138. This should have been handled in the Netherlands. We should

have reviewed the passenger list on the plane that left the Netherlands and denied him entry.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. The man is the complete embodiment of evil....

There are no words to express the horror and revulsion I feel toward him.

[Canuckistanian]

20. That's some heavy-duty tinfoil

In fact, it could be under the category of "sheet metal".

Cheney simply isn't that intelligent, nor would he HIRE someone that intelligent.

[BrklynLiberal]

23. But he is that evil and cunning..

[Canuckistanian]

26. There's a difference between "cunning" and "hired cunning"

And Dick can't afford the latter on an ex-VP's salary.

[Caretha]

32. Perhaps you're not familiar with

Halliburton & Cheney & Cheney's wealth, influence and TPTP. Just a bit of googling would dissuade your of your statement and a ex VP's salary.:eyes:

[Canuckistanian]

43. Oh, I understand. But he has no INFLUENCE any more

As a result of losing POWER.

AFAIC, Cheney is just another washed-up neocon. The teabaggers may like him , but he's lost his mojo.

[Caretha]

44. Please

you're changing your argument. You stated he didn't have the financial resources.

Let me quote you, Canuckistanian said:
There's a difference between "cunning" and "hired cunning". And Dick can't afford the latter on an ex-VP's salary.

When I pointed out your fallacious argument of "his lowly ex-VP salary", you changed your argument to "he has no power". Go google that too and see how long and powerful Cheney's tentacles/connections are. I'm tired of trying to educate you. I'll leave it at this ...“It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

[Canuckistanian]

46. Wow, I didn't know this was a serious argument

You must be a scream at parties.

[JDPriestly]

140. Caretha dear, Cheney does not live on an ex-VP's salary.

He lives on the income from his huge stock holdings and other money he accumulated over the years. Are you aware that he was the head of Halliburton at one time and continued to receive income from his holdings in that company while Vice President?

You need to do a little background study, learn the basics about what is going on and has gone on in our country for the past half a century or more.

I don't have any evidence to support the theory set forth in the OP, but then I don't have any evidence to refute it either. It is interesting to explore ideas on DU.

You don't have to like every idea, but you need to acquire a little more basic knowledge about the world. I don't want to offend you, but you need to read more widely.

[Caretha]

167. JD

I think you mistakingly addressed me when you meant to address the poster named Canuckistanian. I have been trying to set him straight, but he's way too boring. You are more than welcome to give it a try. :)

[JDPriestly]

177. Caretha, I apologize. You are absolutely right.

It's Canuckistanian who is so ill-informed. Poor Canuckistanian. He doesn't know his feet from his nose, I'm afraid.

[tomp]

51. wow, could you possibly be more naive? nt

[Beetwasher]

63. Really? You Believe That? He Lives A Stones' Throw From CIA Headquarters

There's a reason for that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

92. No influence? Oh, but there you are wrong Amigo.

Cheney has MASS INFLUENCE. On the way DU'ers think. MASS INFLUENCE.

I predict that forty years from now, DU'ers will be trying to pin blame on Cheney's daughter, then his granddaughters and grandsons, and on and on and on.

Sarcasm aside, I tend to agree with you. Cheney is an aging nobody.

[RaleighNCDUer]

148. Nobody with a personal forune of a hundred million dollars is a 'nobody'. nt

[Forkboy]

179. Please tell me you're kidding.

While one doesn't have to buy into the OP's premise, saying that Cheney has no power anymore is the height of naivete.

[sabrina 1]

72. That didn't stop him from being behind the outing of Valerie

Plame or the false information behind the WMD's in Iraq eg. He feels invulnerable, he has suffered no consequences for his treasonous behavior and lies. He still has friends in high places.

Airc also, there was a big shake-up at the CIA under Bush. It's probably time to do that again.

This little incident may have been a message to Obama to get in line with Bush terror policies. Torture is a profitable business for the CIA. Whenever anyone threatens business interests in this country they are taking a huge risk.

[defendandprotect]

116. Agree with you on a message to Obama . . .

he's going to have to do some research/guessing on who pulled this off and who to trust . . .

but he will know that something was pulled --

CIA has been betraying presidents since Ike -- maybe before that!?

[TheKentuckian]

180. You're kidding right? Darth has been upper echelon of the crime syndicate since before Watergate

He is as wired in and loaded in combination as anyone need or can be.

He's one of the architects or at least a high level henchman of one. He might be deeper in and higher up than Poppy.

[bertman]

27. Thanks, Aviation Pro, but I just bought one of those extra-wide, extra-long rolls.

B-)

[walldude]

28. LIHOP again?

Sick.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. What do you think happened?

[Aviation Pro]

45. No idea, I don't do the speculation thing.....

...I do however have a pretty good idea of who would benefit from the 1% Doctrine.

[cherokeeprogressive]

93. Your whole OP was speculation, yet you "don't do the speculation thing"?

You take a hypothetical, ask who would most benefit from it, pick a beneficiary, then claim not to "do the speculation thing"?

:rofl:

[Aviation Pro]

96. Note the title of the OP......

Irony? What is this irony you speak of?

[cherokeeprogressive]

99. Um, Otay! n/t

[Maraya1969]

48. Was this information given during the bush era or do you think

that Cheney has friends in the CIA? Of course he wants another attack on US oil. It faired so well for him the last time.

I hope Obama will fire everyone with this "malfunction" That way he can start ridding the CIA of Cheney pals.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/

[notadmblnd]

49. I could easily believe that cheney is still behind the scene pulling strings

There's just too many bush admin leftovers in this admin for my sense of security and we just know the old dick is just dying to say "I told you so."

[grahamhgreen]

53. And coincidental that we just happened to bomb the place the day after he bought the ticket

[CoffeeCat]

56. Hi, I'm Dick Cheney--the stupid dark overlord of evil...

Let's suppose for a moment that this was all orchestrated.

How f'n dumb is Dick Cheney or anyone else who would "mastermind" this failed joke? Probably
the same goons who figured that they'd invade Iraq and just take the country over in a week--as
we were showered with flowers and greeted as liberators?

If you ever want to know if these guys are up to something--just find the nearest f'd up project
and you know their fingerprints are all over it.

Their incompetence is blinding.

Anyone who knows anything--understands that people will not sit still on a plane when they think
someone had a bomb, or when someone tells them to shut up while we land. People will not remain
in their seats. They know now that if they do--their plane is going straight into a building. They
know that anyone making threats on a plane will kill everyone--unless action is taken.

That's a fact. There virtually is no terrorist-on-a-plane scenario that can be pulled off with
relative ease. So, if these incompetent "evil geniuses" want to plot something, or make Obama
look bad--they need to fill their director-of-evil-plots positions with people who aren't
incredibly stupid.

People think Cheney is Vader. They describe him as this dark, scary, relentless man. Behind
the scenes, I think this is what lurks at the heart of Dick Cheney... (where is Perry the Platypus
when you need him?)

[Beetwasher]

62. Cheney Operations Are Known For Their Incompetence In Execution

Niger yellow cake forgeries anyone?

[lunatica]

64. Well, using box cutters worked

just saying...

[CoffeeCat]

70. That was pre-9/11...

We won't remain in our seats. The world is united against stopping
these people. And we now know, that if you do what they say--you end
up dead inside a tall building. So, we really have nothing to lose
by fighting back.

[defendandprotect]

118. Well, let's see . . . the box cutters worked . . . but NORAD didn't .... eh . . .

anything wrong with that reality?

Just saying...

:rofl: :rofl:

[Jamastiene]

182. Exactly.

[defendandprotect]

185. You know what really kills me is if they had said the Russians did 9/11 ...

we'd all still be rolling on the floor laughing -- !!!

And, boy, you gotta keep laughing at this stuff -- !!!


Happy New Year -- !!

:)

[TheKentuckian]

181. He is incompetent because he is wrongheaded, fearful, greedy, and evil not because he's stupid

you shouldn't mix those things up. It doesn't matter how much procesing power is there if you want to do wrong, based on bogus data, and take the money and run.

He has been in and around some of the worst actions ever in this country going back decades not from being a goofy bungler but because that is what he sets out to do for money, power, and ideology.

You're holding onto some thought that he wants to do something resembling the right thing. I grant you deep inside he's probably some frightened little baby boy but he's got nasty layers piled up over a long time.

[Aviation Pro]

59. I understand that Dark Darth Dirk Diggler Dick Motherfucker....

...spewed some vomitus this morning.

Trying to cover your tracks I see you c********** motherfucker.

Die in incredible pain from the cancers that will rack your poser body, fuck wit.

[Beetwasher]

60. Cheney's Assetts???

Wouldn't surprise me.

This has the competence of a Cheney operation all over it. In other words, completely incompetent execution.

[lunatica]

61. Time to dust off the old tin foil hat

[wiggs]

66. Don't forget the under-reported story that the Bush administration purged

the CIA of non-believers and installed loyalists.

[shellgame26]

75. yep yep yep

and yep

[Bette Noir]

76. That's some high-toned conspiracy wrangling you got there,

but the picture made my computer freeze up.

[mstinamotorcity]

78. We know that the troll

still has friends in high places and in low ones. Which lets us know that the President has his work cut out for him. Shooter is in rare form. But remember he is the one who said the measures that his administration put into place after 9/11 kept us safe. Do you think if he would shut the f--k up we might be a lot safer.

[Jamastiene]

79. Looks like the Republicans are planning another "Iran Hostage Crisis" type situation

to take place during 2012, to me. That's how they try to get Democratic presidents out of office. They use their buddies in the terrorist realm to get their way...and the Republicans ARE friends with the terrorists.

[secondwind]

82. DIDN'T EVERYTHING I JUST READ ON THE LINK SAY THIS HAPPENED TWO MONTHS AGO?

HOW COULD CHENEY BENEFIT FROM THIS?

Just sayin'.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

85. Absolutely the face of evil n/t

[Truth2Tell]

88. Thanks for the post! K&R for good tinfoil!

[Caretha]

169. Gawd I love that pic!

[winyanstaz]

89. yup...you nailed it correctly.

[Sunnyshine]

90. There should be a warning in the headline when posting pics of that scum.

Many people are actually praying for an attack while CIC Obama's is in office. There are others with knowledge and connections trying to make all their dark dreams come true. Bank on it! They want civil wars, and they need their unobstructed powers back.

Feckin' sinners.

[spanone]

95. cheney is an enemy of this country. worse than the terrorists.

[cherokeeprogressive]

98. It would seem that most posters on this thread cling to the unshakable belief

that the person President Obama picked to head the CIA works for Cheney, and that Cheney has proxy control over the Agency's actions.

Craziness.

[defendandprotect]

120. Was there a secret assassination squad under Cheney's control?

Was Robert Gates a primary participant in the October Surprise?

Were all of the Iran-Contra principals pardoned?

[cherokeeprogressive]

123. Is Leon Panetta now in control of the CIA?

[defendandprotect]

125. Was Leon Panetta always CIA . . . ????

[cherokeeprogressive]

136. I'm not interested in what was. I'm interested in what IS. Are we talking about the Speedo Bomber?

Is Leon Panetta charge of the CIA or is he not?

If he is, then he should be held accountable for its shortcomings. If he isn't, then who IS, and why?

If the CIA sat on information relevent to the event of Christmas Day, who is responsible? Dick Cheney? Seriously? Or, is Leon Panetta to be called on the carpet for the failings of the agency HE NOW CONTROLS?

Somewhere else in this thread, the claim is made that Cheney lives a "stones throw" from the headquarters in Langley (wink wink). Why? So he can throw stones at an upstairs window in an effort to make contact like I did in high school, when I stopped at my ex-girlfriend's house late at night for a booty call? Or do you really believe the poster who made that comment thinks that Dick Cheney can manipulate the machinations of the CIA? Do YOU believe he can?

Hey, it's all just a matter of opinion. People like you are of the opinion Dick Cheney can pull strings that would make the world shake itself to pieces; that he's some kind of dark force whose tentacles reach so far into the soil he could cause earthquakes to happen and volcanoes to erupt. People like me are of the opinion that he's an aging has-been who has nothing more than an open mic at this point.

[defendandprotect]

152. Oh . . . you want to hold Panetta responsible . . . good . . .

I thought you were suggesting he was an "outsider" coming in to clean up the CIA!

But, what is this sin in comparison to Tenet's . . . "Bil Laden Determined to Strike

Within the US" delivered to Bush in August just before the attacks? For that he

got a Medal of Freedom!!

In answer to Cheney manipulating the CIA . . .

Do you recall that Nixon manipulated and kept the Peace Talks from happening after

LBJ stopped the bombing? Nixon was a has been trying for the presidency at the time.

Do you recall that we had two startling events during the Carter administration ...

one was a number of failed rescue attempts of hostages -- two or three attempts were

ended when helicopters went down. And the big problem with the helicopters . .. ?

They did not have necessary filter attached to keep sand out of the engines for this

desert operation!!! OK . . . guess who headed up those missions.

Ollie North was in command -- and Secord was second in command.


Finally, do you recall Reagan's "October Surprise" ..... Gates was a primary player in

that, as well as Poppy Bush.

I would also suggest to you that there remains the mystery of a number of "off the shelf"

operations -- including assassination hit teams -- and the right wing always seems to be

in control of them and have access to them.

Is the right wing omnipotent -- NO. They're just willing to kill people and commit treason

to get their way.

As for Cheney, I can't say specifically what he has access to ... except certainly he could

get a lot of military quality assistance of Haliburton/Blackwater . . . or at least from

some dark forces within those groups. Certainly if we are right about 9/11 MIHOP these

people as well as the CIA would have been invovled.


And certainly the CIA played a large role in the coup on JFK -- which was actually a coup

on our people's government.



PS: And there are many other examples I could give of right wing power being used when

they are out of office -- Certainly Poppy Bush was always CIA -- his oil firm was a CIA

cover. The right wing never sleesp -- and, as Cheney loved to remind us, they create our

"reality" -- a false reality albeit -- !!!

Elections steals have been a great part of that false reality, possibly back as far as

mid-late 1960's!!

And Iran-Contra, of course . . . drug money and evading a Congressional ban!

[Caretha]

173. Right arm brother

"those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.".

Unfortunately most people's history stops at yesterday.

[Caretha]

170. Oh Snap!

[Echo In Light]

117. He *is* a terrorist

[vinylsolution]

97. I watched CNN last night....

... and it was FEAR - TERROR - FEAR - TERROR - FEAR - all night, non-stop.

My dream for 2010: Cheney's severed head on a stick.

[Tarc]

102. Maybe Cheney will get behind real health reform after all

Those are some mighty ugly crooked teeth he's got there.

[Meldread]

113. I don't understand what you're saying. Are you claiming the CIA wanted the attack to happen?

As in: The CIA sat on the information in hopes that an attack would happen, and then Cheney could come forward and make claims about Obama being weak on terrorism?

If that's what you're claiming, then you're right: I'd need a pretty big tinfoil hat. Because I don't buy it. The problem is clear: the government is a bureaucratic nightmare, and the information got lost in the paper shuffle. Someone didn't pass it onto someone else, or if they did, that person didn't pass it onto the person they were supposed to pass it onto... or it was passed around, but never checked on... or it was passed around, checked on, but never updated into the database or... any of the other thousands of things that get lost in huge giant bureaucracies.

The fact that Cheney hasn't actively reached for every microphone he could find should prove those thoughts wrong. The only time I've heard Cheney saying anything was when Politico actively sought him out for comment. This is unusual for Cheney, and I would think that he would be screaming from the rooftops by now... but then again, he doesn't have much ground to stand on here. Since it seems that at least two individuals released under the Bush administration have gone to Yemen to rejoin the extremists. That could easily be tossed in his face and make any comments he makes collapse like a house of cards, destroying his creditability.

That's why I assume he's holding back. It's much easier for Cheney to use the specter of terrorism and hypothetical situations, because that creates more fear... fear of the unknown and the possible is more frightening than the fear of a failed plot. It could also be that he doesn't want to be seen like an evil opportunist, and will wait a bit before harping publicly. Anyone with 20/20 hindsight can cast aspersions at the Obama Administration. However, it doesn't particularly make them look all that good in my opinion, especially not if that individual is Dick Cheney because he'd come off as doing an 'I told you so' moment.

[defendandprotect]

121. Let me make a suggestion . . ..

find your BS meter and turn it way, way up !!!

[Meldread]

126. Don't you mean I should turn it down or off?

...because even on low the BS meter alarm goes off. The alarm is a siren with red flashing lights, and it just won't shut up - the claim is so nuts and crazy. Not to mention it's predicated on the assumption that Cheney and the government are competent enough to carry this out to begin with... when virtually every shred of evidence involving Cheney and the government absolutely scream, "We are fucking incompetent!"

Most of the government's incompetence comes from crazy levels of bureaucracy, internal and inter-agency politics. Most of Cheney's incompetence comes from the fact that he's a paranoid psychopath that probably needs serious mental health treatment.

[defendandprotect]

157. Crooks are never incompetent and you'd be foolish to think that of our

most notorious criminals -- Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld --


And if you really believe this . . .

The problem is clear: the government is a bureaucratic nightmare, and the information got lost in the paper shuffle. Someone didn't pass it onto someone else, or if they did, that person didn't pass it onto the person they were supposed to pass it onto... or it was passed around, but never checked on... or it was passed around, checked on, but never updated into the database or... any of the other thousands of things that get lost in huge giant bureaucracies.


Turn that BS meter UP . . . UP ..

:)

Happy Winter Solstice -- Nature's New Year!

[ProgressOnTheMove]

119. Yeah, there is something very suspicious about this whole thing even more than 911.

[shadowknows69]

127. The thought had occurred to me. I've had my tinfoil hat surgically attached to my scalp.

[davidwparker]

130. Hey, warn somebody in the title whenever you put the face of death and

destruction in your post. I have a large monitor and then there was that face covering it. It was alarming.

Someone sat on something for a while before something happened. Hmmm. That sounds vaguely familiar.

[mother earth]

132. I wear my tinfoil proudly, it means I'm not an idiot, or naive.

All is not well in this country, absolutely by design. And the turmoil is stirred and stirred, and every damned episode in this media-made soap opera, is designed to rile up hatred and ignite ignorance, over and over so it takes.

The same people are players, here and there, or their family and absolutely the same party when we lost Kennedy to a "lone nut-job".

This country has never been this close to the abyss, all by friggin design.

[tan guera]

168. I agree

BushCo got everything it wanted...nothing incompetent about that.
Iraq was designed to be effed up..note the sale of oil to foreign corps.
FISA, war prez with war powers, Patriot Act etc etc...planned, not signs of incompetency IMO.

[ooglymoogly]

134. Well there is tinfoil and there is tinfoil...this is definitely

3 mill al u minium

[Jamastiene]

158. Well...

at this point, we NEED 3 mill aluminum. It's crazy out there.

[ooglymoogly]

183. my point exactly nt

[Meldread]

143. This thread has headed over into Birther territory.

I'm sorry, but this thread has veered over into Birther territory. It seems that people on the left are just as susceptible to believing outrageous and crazy claims as those on the right, so long as it validates their staunchly held ideological beliefs. How sad.

[Moochy]

149. Alert it and get it moved into the dungeon

it works for every other "CT" related thread.

[Jamastiene]

156. So, you think Dick Cheney is Santa Claus?

:tinfoilhat:

[Meldread]

165. LOL.

I think you're being facetious... but it's hard to tell in this thread.

Up thread I called Cheney a "paranoid psychopath that probably needs serious mental health treatment." I stand by that statement. :P

I think some of the comments in this thread rank right up there with something propagated by the Birch Society. "The Commies are putting fluoride in our drinking water to CONTROL OUR MINDS! AAHH!" Replace that with: "Dick Cheney has a secret shadow government that the CIA answers to and they plot fake terrorist attacks against the United States, which could potentially kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent people, all in an attempt to undermine our President so they can win their way back to power and... *deep breath* ...carry out endless wars for oil to empower their corporate overlords. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!"

Reality: Dick Cheney, an already crazy right wing kook before 9/11, became traumatized after the attacks and it drove him to become an even more crazy right wing kook, and this led to him sanctioning insane and depraved acts. He sees enemies in every shadow, and believes that we need to fight an endless war no matter the cost. If he was given the power he would probably nuke the hell out of most of the middle east and any other nation that tried to stop him. He's also a man who desperately clings to his irrational fears in an attempt to justify his past actions because they are absolutely heinous - admitting that he's wrong would also require him to accept the absolutely vile and evil things he's done in the name of "national security" and the "war against terrorism." ...and like most human beings, he ignores reality because he feels safer and more secure in his alternate universe. It is, after all, much easier to view the world in black and white rather than shades of gray and nuanced complexity.

[alberg]

150. The CIA has been lying to the President since the 50's.

Check out " Legacy of Ashes - The History of the CIA" by Tim Weiner. He documents how since it's inception the CIA has had loyalties to the financial elite in the US. The precident for subversive ops goes back to the beginning of the Agency. They lied to the President as part of their standard operating procedure.

[Blasphemer]

151. I'm with you. Dick Cheney is evil incarnate and I have no doubt that he has his hands in the CIA..nt

[pjt7]

171. Dick Cheney & Donald Rumsfield FAILED this Country by

allowing 9.11 to happen. Worst attack on America in our history & DC needs to take major responsibility for it, because he handled National Security issues.

[B Calm]

184. It's past time to lock up this traitorous bastard!