WE ARE TERRORIZING OURSELVES!

[kpete]

Bruce Schneier on TSA Absurdity and the Need for Resilience
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/bruce_schneier_on_the.php
...............

Goldberg: But what will happen if there is a successful attack of the type we almost saw in the skies above Detroit? Does air travel survive?


Schneier: Probably. Air travel survived decades of terrorism, including attacks which resulted in the deaths of everyone on the plane. It survived 9/11. It'll survive the next successful attack. The only real worry is that we'll scare ourselves into making air travel so onerous that we won't fly anymore. We won't be any safer -- more people will die in car crashes resulting from the increase in automobile travel, and terrorists will simply switch to one of the millions of other targets -- and we won't even feel any safer. It's frustrating; terrorism is rare and largely ineffectual, yet we regularly magnify the effects of both their successes and failures by terrorizing ourselves.

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/bruce_schneier_on_the.php

[Truth2Tell]

1. Bingo. K&R nt

[timeforpeace]

41. Big Sis wouldn't do that to us, would she?

[Hekate]

2. I've been saying that for 8 years: they "won". Our own government has us in lock-down....

... and it is disgusting beyond words.

Hekate

[seabeyond]

4. yup. exactly. and yes... disgusting, to say the least. nt

[niyad]

19. on that day, I was im'ing with a friend, and, at one point, said "talk to you later, have to run an

errand." he gasped, "you aren't going out, are you?" "of course I am, I have things to do. listen, if we cower in fear, WHOEVER did this wins, and I refuse to let the bastards win."

wasn't afraid that day, mot afraid now.

[Echo In Light]

38. Collective, psychological acclimation for what's to come?

[Hekate]

39. Under Bush, I said that. Also said it would be hard to purge once he was gone...

And I still believe that. Bush/Cheney left moles behind, and they hired a whole lot of like-minded people aside from them. It's going to be a long and difficult process to turn this ship around.

Hekate

[Echo In Light]

40. I really don't think it matter which admin is "elected" anymore

Read into that what you will ... but as you point out, those drastic changes re Patriot Act, spying on everyone, monitoring peace/church/anti-war groups, hassling dissidents re the 'no fly' list, the "free speech" zones, etc...these big changes weren't designed to slip away upon a new admin entering the scene.

[Hekate]

43. >sigh< Before we elected Obama, I said that I didn't know if we could ever get our country back...

... as regards civil liberties and Bill of Rights issues, because the damage wrought by the Bush admin was so severe and went so deep. I still mean that. I just don't know. Electing Obama was not a guarantee but an opportunity to begin the hard and long work of recovery; surely not the work of a month, a year, or even 4 years.

However, I also said that electing Obama was the one chance we would really ever get to try to turn this around -- because for sure it would be permanent if McCain-Palin got in.

Hekate

[seabeyond]

3. yup. what will people submit to in order for the illusion of safety. nt

[kctim]

32. Gun control

[seabeyond]

33. i hate guns, but i will stand with the persons right to own....

my position

i see your point, but really going away from thread here.

[kctim]

34. Not really

Fear is what motivates both of those views and is what is behind the passive acceptance of allowing govt the power to strip rights and control us in order to "protect" us.

"yet we regularly magnify the effects of both their successes and failures by terrorizing ourselves"

The only thing different is the thing that is feared.

[seabeyond]

36. i agree. nt

[valerief]

5. When religion stopped working on us, the govt had to turn to terrorism. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. +1

:thumbsup: And it seems too be working, sadly enough.

[conspirator]

35. A++++++ nt

[LiberalAndProud]

6. Sad but true. K&R

[rsmith6621]

7. There is Something That FREAKS People Out

.....about falling thousands of feet from an aircraft that is bothersome than when they get T-BONED and die in a car crash.....I guess it is because they feel in a car they have some control....

YES if it happens again the airlines will be tightening their belts more.

[MindandSoul]

8. Absolutely!

Our nation is paralyzed not by terrorism, but by the fear of terrorism! And that fear has been cultivated for the last 8 years under Bush! Now President Obama is being blamed for NOT being as "careful" and NOT continuing to cultivate the fear. . .
Yet, since 2000, there has been a total of 780 airline death (this include the victims who died in the 3 flights on 9/11).
And, since 2005, there has been in excess of 187,000 death in car accidents!

Yet, no one think twice about driving. . .in fact, some people even state that they now prefer to drive cross country rather than fly!!!!

Now. . . the terrorists do not need to succeed in an attack. . .they have us right where they want us anyway!

Come on, people, wake up! You have about 200 time more chance to die in a car accident than in ANY flight!. . .and the odds are even greater that you will die in a car accident than in a terrorist attack of ANY kind!

Stop buying into the fear mongering! Terrorism is costing our nation very few lives. . .but a whole lot of energy, economic wealth, peace of mind, and opportunities!

[kpete]

9. exactly, MindandSoul

"Stop buying into the fear mongering!"

if only, peace, kp

[L0oniX]

10. 45,000 traffic fatalities every year ...I think we can survive a few jets going down.

I suspect this underwear bomber is just being used to bolster our military endeavors. Who really trusts the news anymore? You think El Kabong really wants to be tagged with an inept moronic attempt to get a blow job in the air?

[east texas lib]

11. Oh really? What if you were aboard one of them?

Wow. Just wow.

[seabeyond]

15. then it is a huge ass SOL. the thing is, everytime we get out of bed, risk starts rising. nt

[niyad]

18. even before we get out of bed--many years ago, a neighbor of mine woke to find a car crashing

through the wall of his bedroom--over his head. drunk driver lost control, and slammed into his apartment (we were downhill from where she started, very weird situation) luckily, he was only scared, not hurt.

life has a 100 percent mortality rate, and I refuse to live in fear and terror. of course, living at what would have been one of the first "ground zeroes" during the "cold" war kind of helped with that attitude.

[L0oniX]

23. You can spend your whole life contemplating "what if".

I suppose it's worth it to you to spend all this money and kill all those innocent people to avenge the 3000 on 911 ...wow.

:eyes:

[east texas lib]

44. You suppose incorrectly.

But if the idea of people being blown out of the sky just makes you say "Yawn", then rock on by all
means.

[seabeyond]

46. but that isnt what anyone is saying. dont actually consider what is being said. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. That would be unfortunate.

:shrug:

[FLDCVADem]

13. Deaths in auto accidents

v. pre-meditated murder.

I guess I should be surprised by this attitude, but I'm not.

[azul]

17. What is it that drunk drivers do?

Isn't it 50% of highway fatalities involve some drunk fool aiming a lethal weapon?

[L0oniX]

22. No one is stopping you from stampeding with all the other fearful lemmings.

[mmonk]

12. That has through history been a method used by those in power

to maintain power.

[Individualist]

26. That's a fact everyone should keep in mind

:thumbsup:

[Vidar]

14. K&R.

[tomg]

16. Well, if we keep worrying about

what almost happened over Detroit, it will effectively stop us from worrying about what is actually happening in and to Detroit and its people.

[niyad]

20. excellent point

[gratuitous]

21. Hey, don't say that!

Rep. Hoekstra might wet his pants again.

[earth mom]

27. Stop watching the so called news on t.v. people.

Hell, I've been saying this for YEARS around DU.

The powers that be are using FEAR FEAR FEAR and TERRA TERRA TERRA to control us.

Don't buy into it and turn off their lying a$$ mouthpieces on the corporate news shows!

There are plenty of other options for REAL news than those bastards.

[tblue37]

28. I already fly as seldom as possible--and if they really do

end up forbidding people from using the restroom for an hour before a plane lands, I will have to give it up altogether, because I have a tiny tank.

[Lifelong Protester]

29. I agreed as soon as I saw the photos of the underwear on TV

I mean, we are FREAKING OURSELVES OUT. Yes, this could have been deadly, terrible, a tregedy. But each time this happens, we help the terrorists (or wannabees) more by our reaction. News flash: THEY have WON

[snot]

30. Statistically, we're MUCH safer flying than driving.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/09/71743 :

Risk levels for the 11-year period from 1995 through 2005 (including 9/11, of course),

S E V E R E
Driving off the road: 254,419
Falling: 146,542
Accidental poisoning: 140,327

H I G H
Dying from work: 59,730
Walking down the street: 52,000.
Accidentally drowning: 38,302

E L E V A T E D
Killed by the flu: 19,415
Dying from a hernia: 16,742

G U A R D E D
Accidental firing of a gun: 8,536
Electrocution: 5,171

L O W
Being shot by law enforcement: 3,949
Terrorism: 3147
Carbon monoxide in products: 1,554

[chrisa]

31. Laws being passed based on emotion

and recent events are never good or effective. Take this, "You cannot leave your seat for the last hour of the flight" nonsense, for example.

[Goldstein1984]

37. Flying Less

Fear is yielding control to those using fear for their purposes, whether they be terrorists or government officials trying to manipulate citizens and create a police state.

I've not only minimized my personal travel, I've reduced my work travel by 50%. I fly mostly in Alaska, so I've been using small local airlines, which not only diverts the money away from large out-of-state businesses and keeps it in local hands longer, it allows me to bypass security, keep my shoes on, and fly with a pocket knife on my person. Of course, I have to do without the complimentary cup of juice and little bag of peanuts.

[fascisthunter]

42. this country isn't united enough for there to be a "we"

this government(they) are trying to scare us all for purely political purposes. To hype shit like this, something this serious is unforgivable. Real lives are at stake here, this isn't a game, unless you are a psychopath that is...

[pleah]

45. K&R!