I had to lock my doors for the first time since I came to live here and that's more than ten years.

[Cleita]

Neighbor across the road who has lived here forever and knows everyone in town including the local sheriffs (we are county), just called to tell us that there is an armed prowler in the area. I guess it's a sign of the times. DH and I moved out of the city almost twenty years ago when he retired because we got tired of working hard and being ripped off. We never had to worry much out here in the boonies about criminals, well other than the banks and insurance companies. I believe that studies say that petty crimes increase when a population becomes stressed from unemployment and other factors that make them poor. I kind of blame Arnold for this and for cutting down on services that kept these problems under a lid in California.

[lonestarnot]

1. Bummer. At least you still have a door.

:)

[Cleita]

3. I know. I shouldn't bitch.

It's just that it shows how eff'd up our country has become. I feel sorry for the prowler. He's coming up against some fully armed ranchers.

[paulsby]

2. sign of WHAT times? do you read the DOJ statistics?

violent crime is DOWN.

down first half of 2009.

down for deacdes.

do you have evidence it has spiked in cali?

[Cleita]

6. Statistics have nothing to do with waiting for someone to do a home

invasion who is carrying a gun? When it starts going rural, it's serious. The ranchers are very well armed and they can shoot anyone who trespasses on their property. I'm just wondering how desperate this poor fucker is who is running from the sheriffs and why?

[paulsby]

8. except anecdotal local incident does not equal a trend

we've had 6 cops murdered by firearms (and 2 wounded) in the last 2 months in the seattle/tacoma area.

is that a trend?

if so, we will have 36 more cops murdered by next year just in 2 counties in WA state.

do you really think that this is valid logic.

yea, you have a criminal running around yer neighborhood. groovy. it doesn't follow taht crime is spiked because of your isolated incident.

that's why they have these things called STATISTICS.

[Cleita]

10. I live in a rural county.

It's hardly Seattle/Tacoma. I did live in north eastern Washington at one time and it was much like where I live here. Crime was mostly drunk driving. I knew the sheriff and she was my friend. She covered a hundred miles everyday on her watch, which is a problem in rural areas when a dangerous criminal shows up. btw, this whole post is anecdotal. It has nothing to do with stats and everything to do with speculation.

[paulsby]

11. so what?

that doesn't eliminate the point.

the point is that an isolated incident =/= a trend

in fact, several (as we've had here in king/pierce county) doesn't EITHER.

here's a hint. even rural areas occasionally have HORRIFIC crimes.

if a town of 5,000 that hasn't had a murder in 150 yrs, has 2 tomorrow, is that a TREND?

cmon. it's a simple matter of math and logic.

you are right. it is a problem in a rural area when response times are so low.

otoh, country folk are far more likely to be self-sufficient and (at least in WA state) have a CCW and firearms to defend themselves.

"a country boy can survive" and all that

[Cleita]

12. Whatever you say.

Both of us are talking about different things.

[paulsby]

15. no, you're just not intellectually honest enought to admit

that claiming there is a new trend of rural crime, because your particular location happened to have an incident, is a bogus argument.

god forbid, you should admit that you were wrong.

on the internets?

it could never happen.

sure.

there were 4 lakewood cops killed recently, in one incident, sitting in a coffee shop.

therefore, there is this new trend. NO COFFEE SHOP IN LAKEWOOD IS SAFE. LAKEWOOD COFFEE SHOP PART I CRIMES HAVE EXPERIENCED A HUGE TREND UPWARDS. COFFEE SHOP MURDERS HAVE INCREASED MANTY TIMES.

logic (or yer lack thereof.)

it's what's for dinner

[omega minimo]

31. Where's the Beef?

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

Is "a sign of the times" =+= at "A TREND!!!!!!!!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!11/1/11/1/1," Marvin?

[TexasProgresive]

33. I guess you just have to be right. Well so be it

[paulsby]

42. no, i am sometimes wrong

the difference is that when i am, and am shown to be, i say "i was wrong".

i've done it before. give it a try. it isn't hard

you are trying to say there is a trend upwards in rural crime merely because of ONE anecdotal incident in your rural area.

and i am simply pointing out that that is not a valid argument

you know it, but you won't admit it.

it's NOT about having to be right. when i am wrong, it's not a bad thing. it means i LEARNED something, and corrected a false belief i had.

that's a GOOD thing.

but not for people with small fragile egos.

hth

[TicketyBoo]

48. The way I read this

is that Cleita came here feeling anxious over her situation, and instead of a little compassion, she gets spewed at.

[paulsby]

52. hmmm. let's look at primary source

like um... the original post...

"Neighbor across the road who has lived here forever and knows everyone in town including the local sheriffs (we are county), just called to tell us that there is an armed prowler in the area. I guess it's a sign of the times. DH and I moved out of the city almost twenty years ago when he retired because we got tired of working hard and being ripped off. We never had to worry much out here in the boonies about criminals, well other than the banks and insurance companies. I believe that studies say that petty crimes increase when a population becomes stressed from unemployment and other factors that make them poor. I kind of blame Arnold for this and for cutting down on services that kept these problems under a lid in California"

so, there's an armed prowler in the area.

therefore: 1) it's a sign of the times...

what times? every stat i have read shows that crime has been on a steady decrease since it spiked decades ago. and at least for the 1st half of 2009 was still dropping

2)I believe that studies say that petty crimes increase when a population becomes stressed from unemployment and other factors that make them poor

the studies do GENERALLY say this. but at least thus far, every statistic i have seen shows crimes have been DECLINING and did decline in the 1st half of 2009. who knows? maybe they increased during the second 1/2. but ONE criminal running around her area does not equal that proposition

3) "I kind of blame Arnold for this..."

regardless of what one thinks of arnold, crime is lower now in california than when he took office. the trend HAS BEEN DOWN.
we may see that it spiked second 1/2 of 2009, but those stats aren't in

and all i "spewed" was that it was bogus to see one criminal running around your (normally peaceful) area, and extrapolate that crime rates are rising, that it's a sign of the times (like car prowlers weren't doing their thang in the boom era) and that this (not at all established, and the evidence points to the OPPOSITE) alleged crime trend increase is arnold's fault

res ipsa loquitor

[MrsMatt]

36. It runs in cycles - I grew up on a farm

in south central Minnesota, with the nearest large city over 90 miles away (our farm was 9 miles from the nearest town - population 1200). There would be a rash of break-ins at various farms every 10 years or so. They were usually stealing gas, but weren't above breaking into homes.

[Mari333]

45. READ MORE

violent crime stats are 5.5. percent UP in small towns less than 10,000 people.

down in the large cities, UP in small towns.

2 murders in my small town in one month here. never happened before.

[EFerrari]

4. I know how you feel, Cleita. Since I've been up at the ranch

and now it's dark so early, I'm out there walking dogs after dark every night. It's a little too rural for lights and a little too close to the burbs to feel safe any more.

But my trusty Labrador retrievers will lick any attacker to death, so I take comfort in that. :)

[Cleita]

9. Carry a flashlight. I have one that the cops use that doubles as a baton.

I find it handy, but I never had to use it yet even when I worked as a campground host.

[EFerrari]

25. I do carry one and a leash in hand. If anyone tries to assault me

I'll blind them with my D batteries and whip them into a frenzy.

lol

It sort of does concern me, more seriously, to be alone up here much of the time. It felt safer when the city was further away. I've thought of gettig a gun more than once but always decide a leash is more my speed. :)

[Cleita]

27. Well, be safe. You know what works for you.

Having a big dog is somewhat of a deterrent, even if it is a Lab. A lot of criminal types don't know that Labs are the gentle Jesuses of dogs. Our Lab actually barks up a storm around strangers and she could be frightening if you don't know what a cream puff she is. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

50. I used to put one of those really big, really ugly looking metal collars

on my Buddy and could walk around Berkeley at any hour of the day or night with her. I just couldn't let anyone get too close or she'd try to lick. LOL

[blondeatlast]

5. I often wonder if CA's budget sitch might not be BETTER had Prop. 13 not passed.

I imagine it created waste and bureaucracy on its own from agencies trying to work within its parameters.

So sorry about that.

[Cleita]

7. Prop. 13 ruined everything. I know because I watched the blocks that

had been built that made this a great state being dismantled one by one.

[jaysunb]

13. I never miss an opportunity to blame

prop 13 for any and everything that's wrong with the state.

Arnold is just another in a long line of " gatekeepers " of that travasty.

:hi: Happy Holidays !

[Cleita]

14. Backatcha!

Best of holidays and a great year for you!

[TwilightGardener]

16. That's unsettling. Hope they catch him. I am contemplating

building a home in the boonies myself (still undecided), and I wonder how it will feel not to have any neighbors nearby (about a mile in every direction) on those dark, quiet nights when you just get the willies for some reason. I live in the middle of a small town now, and my neighbors are wonderful but extremely nosy--they would definitely notice something amiss or unusual about my house or family. I don't know what it will be like to have nothing but wind and coyotes. :dilemma:

[Cleita]

17. Even with a mile between your neighbors and you, they still are nosy.

However, you will realize that it's a kind of necessity when you are in the boonies in case something happens and since utilities tend to be unreliable in the boonies, you might appreciate your nosy neighbors looking in on you when you can't call someone. You should try it temporarily first to see how it works out for you.

[TwilightGardener]

26. Yes, I've benefitted from nosiness more than been bothered by it--

I've had my wandering dogs returned, my kid snitched on when he was caught doing something dangerous, gotten a phone call about my car headlights being left on, got help with a stuck hose valve flooding the yard, etc. It can be comforting to know I'm not really alone. While I fantasize about living out on the acreage we bought, I also know that I should resolve some fears and concerns about being so isolated before we commit to building out there. Your post just reminded me of one of my big anxieties--what the hell to do if some dangerous nut is roaming the countryside and no one else is around, and the sheriff's deputies are miles away...

[Cleita]

29. It happens so seldom, I wouldn't worry about it.

I hope that we start seeing people getting back to work and address our homeless problem and maybe we don't have to worry. I always found the city far more dangerous than the country or even the wilderness.

[kdragon1010]

51. You know the answer

You shouldn't rely on the police to defend your life or property anyway you should be able to do it yourself.

[LWolf]

34. While I've lived rurally a few times in my life,

I've never lived a full mile away from all others. Currently, I have 3 other families living on my private road. I'm at the dead end, with miles of public land on two sides. We wave if we pass. We know each other's names, and have each other's phone numbers in case of an emergency. Other than that, though, we rarely see one another, and we don't socialize. I can't see their houses from mine unless I make a conscious effort to do so; there are several acres of trees between us.

I never get the "willies." Of course, being alone is an acquired pleasure; most people who haven't spent a lot of time that way are distinctly uncomfortable without the energy of others around them.

I crave the silence and solitude my home offers.

If I could, I'd live right in the center of a thousand square miles, fenced, of my own property, so that no one could get any closer than that, lol.

[davsand]

18. Yep, I have to wonder just how bad off you gotta be to run amok in rural areas

I know how well armed these guys are where I live and there is no freaking way I'd be out doing the B and E thing around here. That is a damn quick way to get your ass killed. It isn't that they are any more vicious than anyone else, it is just that out here you know full well that if you DO ever need emergency response you will probably wait a while. Most folks just figure they will take care of it themselves...

Makes some sense to me, it you want the truth. If somebody is kicking my front door down am I supposed to just tell them to hold on while I wait an hour for the Sheriff to get there?

:shrug:



Laura

[Cleita]

21. We have a men's prison fifteen miles from here. I suspect

he's an escapee although we weren't told.

[bertman]

19. Why wait for a neighbor to bag him? If he's armed and prowling he's fair game.

[Cleita]

20. I'm hoping the sheriffs will find him.

I think that they are staking the area since they put out the warnings to the residents.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

22. I can't imagine not locking my doors. I'd lock them even if nobody lived within 100 square miles.

:rofl:


(but it's true)



edit to add: I trust all my neighbors... I wouldn't lock my doors to keep them out, but you never know who might come around. I'm just very cautious.

[bertman]

23. If you were really Jesus you'd be giving all your shit to the poor instead of locking your doors..

Can't fool me.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

30. I am Jesus, but not THE Jesus.

:)


He was a great guy. Many of his followers aren't so much.


(and I lock my doors because I'm a chicken... I'm scared of someone hurting me - a fear not unfounded). (oops, double negative, but you get what I mean)

[davsand]

40. We are a fairly mobile society, and that includes bad people.

Yes, I do live out in the willy wacks where people still leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the truck, but there is a general recognition that safety can be fleeting. People still choose to live the way they always have, but there IS an awareness that bad people do know how to drive.

Our local school has an action plan (complete with drills) for lock down in case of violence, and they are touched by it from time to time. They used that plan last year when there was an armed robbery at the local bank and one of the robbers ran out after beating the crap out of one of the tellers (a very nice lady who is a paramedic on our volunteer fire rescue squad, btw.) The school was on "code red" for a couple of hours before the all clear was issued.

They finally caught the guys and they were from Indiana. The pattern for them was to drive to some rural area and rob a small town bank. They'd hop on the interstate and be out of the area pretty quickly.

We have times where stuff gets stolen and burglaries happen, and that can be either local talent or visitors. The running joke around here is that everybody spots a strange pickup truck from a few miles away.


Laura

[bertman]

43. I appreciate you clarifying that.

:hi:

[Cleita]

24. I understand.

My son-in-law, who used to live in So. Central LA, locks everything up all the time even though he's lived here as long as we have. I got used to not locking when I realized there was no reason, however, I guess there is ultimately a reason. You see, our worse adversaries where I live are coyotes and cougars, as well as a variety of lesser predators. We have to protect our pets and chickens from them, but in a different way than locking stuff up.

[Thirtieschild]

28. We're in the boonies and don't lock our doors.

Have to have them open for ventilation in the summer and not locking them has become a habit. We count on our dogs to let us know something is afoot, though we never know whether it's a roadrunner of a prowler. If it comes down to it we are well armed, though I wouldn't want to count on it.

Feels sort of like my girlhood in the small town fifties. You not only never locked your house, but you never lost your car keys. You didn't lose them because they were always in the ignition of your car.

[NNN0LHI]

39. Door locks are not designed to keep professional criminals out

The locks we are accustomed to will not even slow down a professional thief. They are designed mainly to keep people we know(amateurs) out when were not at home.

Sad but true.

Don

[DesertFlower]

32. i live in the county too.

we're on a very narrow road. if another car is coming in the other direction one of us has to pull over to the side. at one point you can actually fall off the mountain. there's only one way in and out. there are signs on the road saying "private drive -- no trespassing". it's considered a safe area. still we have an elaborate security system and i keep it on when i'm home alone. i also have a 38 in my nightstand. hubby teases me about it. my answer is "sharon tate thought she was safe".

anyone who would try to come up here late at night would be crazy. it's pitch black outside and there are coyotes, javelinas and rattlers.

[Vinca]

35. What's a javelina?

We live in the boonies, too, and I'd never leave the door unlocked. Too many nutjobs in the world.

[Cleita]

44. They are pig like critters native to the South West.

Here's a wiki article on them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peccary They are kind of cute aren't they?

[Vinca]

53. Aha! Peccaries! They are cute.

[DesertFlower]

54. they're quite common here in the southwest.

here's a link:

http://images.google.com/images?q=javelinas&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGIC_en___US356&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=MLs7S5f2MIvOsgOEl5nMBA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCMQsAQwAw

[UTUSN]

37. K&R to the rude UnReKKK, one of those inscrutable UnReKKKs n/t

[pipi_k]

38. Having lived in the city for many years...

I still don't trust anybody or any region, so during the time I've lived here in a very small rural town, I've always kept my doors locked.

The area has been targeted on occasion for break-ins, and one of my neighbors down the road a piece had her Escalade stolen from her yard and left badly damaged in the nearby woods.

No streetlights here, so we have motion detector lights and security cameras and driveway alarms.


Not having neighbors very close by is a concern sometimes, but then again, I remember back to a time when I lived in a very large apartment complex (maybe a hundred apartments, or more) and my neighbors on the first floor (I was 3rd floor) had their place robbed in broad daylight. So having neighbors around isn't always a guarantee of safety....

[L0oniX]

41. I am prepared.

[Mari333]

46. crime is up 5.5.% in small towns in the USA with less then 10,000 people

but down in the larger cities.

we had 2 murders here in one month in my small town.

in Michigan.

never ever been so much violent crime here like that.

house break ins too.

5000 people live here.

[bvar22]

47. We started locking our doors too.

2 years ago, no one did.
You could leave your purse on top of the car in a WalMart parking lot, and it would be there when you returned.


NOW, it will only probably be there.

There HAS been an increase in burglaries of homes and vehicles...but no increase in violent crimes...yet.

Most people ARE now locking their doors.

My wife & I left our cabin to make our weekly provision run to town last week, and had a discussion over whether to lock the door.
We decided to hedge out bets by locking the front door, but left the side door unlocked. :shrug:

As we were pulling out of the driveway, I looked back at our cabin.
Next to the locked front door was an axe and a sledge hammer (for splitting fire wood).


It is a bummer to have to start thinking about "home security".

And we DO have guns, but they only make your home more attractive to a thief who can easily tell when you aren't home.

[MilesColtrane]

49. I think my parents may have left the doors unlocked back in the early 60's, but...

certainly no later than that.

It's just common sense to do so these days.