At times like this, we are more like freeperville than we can bear to admit

[cali]

Why am I repelled by the hate expressed here?

partially because it will be used to discredit the left, both broadly and specifically. On a purely personal level, I don't like seeing us sink to the level of freepers and Teddy Kennedy. Hate accomplishes little positive. And sort of vaguely, though not karma vague, I don't think unleashing our ids is a good thing, not for the individual or the broader community. I don't know maybe it's in part that I grew up with "discretion is the better part of valor" repeated ad nauseum. I failed to see the wisdom in that for a long, long time, and rebelled against it, but over time, I've come to see that there's a measure of wisdom in that old chestnut.

There are things I think that I won't post here at DU- or anywhere or even say to anyone.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. I Usually Avoid Free Republic

They have their lunatics but it seems that most of them are relatively restrained when someone on the left dies or is ill. I know they showed a great deal of sympathy when Elizabeth Edwards was diagnosed with breast cancer.

Energy is energy whether it is positive or negative and I no longer am going to waste energy on hating anybody.

[Union Yes]

2. Some of us were born fighters. nt

[cali]

4. or born haters

or just unable to show any fucking self-control whatsoever.

[Le Taz Hot]

10. OK, wait a minute.

Cali lecturing on self-control? That's rich. :rofl:

[KG]

13. !

:rofl:

[Ichingcarpenter]

37. Santamonius

I guess it has to do with Santa

[Union Yes]

15. You take your moral high road, I prefer to sink to Limpy's level and fight fire with fire.nt

But please, don't tell me how to think or what I should do.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

16. delete

delete

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

18. no wonder the Right has been kicking your azz for so long

You don't have the guts to fight.

[cali]

22. kicking my ass? you mean personally?

got any other idiotic comments? Oh, and by the way, I'm a Vermonter and we kick the right's ass around these parts.

[MH1]

5. What does being a "fighter" have to do with posting on a message board

various speculations and ruminations about some other person's health or lack thereof?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I Don't Want To Start A Flame War Or Participate In One

This great economy has taken the fight out of me but how are we fighting anybody by saying bad things about them on a message board.

If you hate Rush boycott his show; boycott his advertisers. He's always promoting Lifelock or whatever.


PEACE

[el_bryanto]

8. Perhaps it is better to select effective ways of fighting.

I assume this is in response to Rush Limbaugh's medical situation - what could the left gain from kicking him when he is ill?

Bryant

[cali]

23. and that's the smartest comment in the thread- including my rather

inchoate op.

[Forkboy]

11. It has nothing to do with fighting.

Hell, I'm overjoyed this happened, but it's because I think he's one of the biggest pieces of filth the country has ever had, but I'm not going to claim it's because I'm a fighter. Rush is just a fuckstick who deserves to die and when it happens I'll be very, very happy.

[pecwae]

3. K&R.

I remember a poster making a similar comment around the time I first signed up here and the outrage was deafening. However loud it was did not negate the truth to the post any more than it will now.

[madokie]

7. I wouldn't know since I've never gone there to begin with

and doubt seriously if I ever will

[Union Yes]

9. Just a reminder Cali, Limpy has wished you and me both dead.nt

[cali]

12. I'm not a big eye for an eye person

but beyond that, I honestly believe that there are things that needn't be said, that do us more harm than good by coming into existence.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

19. no, yer a morally superior internet poster

hilarious. :eyes:

[cali]

21. nope. I'm not feeling superior. I'm more sad to see this shit than anything else

and it's the expression of it even more than the actual sentiments.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. He Wishes That We Were Discredited, Humiliated, Embarrassed

Which most of us wish for him. I never remember him wishing we were dead.

[Forkboy]

17. If you want to feel better than me today is your lucky day.

[cali]

20. I don't want to feel better than you and I don't

I have quite a bit of respect for you and that's not going to change because I think you're flat wrong here. In fact, consider the op a response to the question you asked in that locked thread. I found it hard to articulate what I feel about this and I don't think I did a good job, but this kind of id unleashed hate evokes a strong response from me- part a gut thing and part observations over many years.

[Forkboy]

28. I see it as entirely normal, and in many ways good for those who have such feelings to voice them.

The comparison to Freepers over this is shallow and ignores all other aspects of the posters saying these things that bother you. Voicing a true emotion, even an ugly one, doesn't negate all the things myself and others have stood for and fought for over the years, things that Rush and the Freepers have done all in their power to destroy. This isn't the "id unleashed" (trust me, if that were the case with me we'd all know it!), it's a genuine reaction to one of the ugliest men this country has ever known. If he was like Ted Kennedy and we still voiced these feelings the comparison would at least have a little more weight, as Kennedy has actually done things to improve this world. Rush hasn't. In fact it's just the opposite.

You say I'm flat out wrong, but there is no right or wrong here, except for what we feel is right or wrong for ourselves individually. It may be wrong for YOU, but it isn't for me.

[cali]

30. the comparison to freepers is sadly accurate

switch the names and the hate is the same whether expressed here or there. And I profoundly disagree that uttering every ugly thing we feel is a positive thing. I never said it negated every good thing that you or others have fought for. I'm not saying that freeperville is a carbon copy of DU or that freepers are in most ways like DUers. It's a specific comparison. Letting hate get the better of you doesn't improve anything and often makes things worse.

[Forkboy]

35. I don't see anyone letting hate get the better of them.

If that was the case we'd have been doing a lot more than typing nasty things about him. If I truly hated the man and let that hate get the better of me I would have paid him a personal visit, not typed that I wish he'd be hit by a bus. I posted something here a few months back about the one time in my life when I let hate get the better of me and it almost resulted in murder, an act I'm still haunted by, even though the guy in question raped a 13 year old. There is no comparison between my saying I wish Rush was dead and actually acting on that hate. THAT'S letting hate get the better of you. And no one here is doing anything of the sort.

I'll also argue (and so will my psychiatrist, as we've had this talk in many forms) that voicing these things can often be good for the person doing so, a cathartic release of some of that very hate and anger that threatens to consume us at times. Yes, there are times it can makes things worse (like voicing hate for your Mother In Law at Thanksgiving dinner), but in the instance of voicing your opinion on a message board, no, I don't see it. It's not making anyone who doesn't feel the same way suddenly sit up and go, "Holy shit, they're right...I better hope he dies too!". Hell, if anything, people like me will make a lot of DUers feel good about themselves. See, a positive already! ;)

[TheCowsCameHome]

24. He is pure evil and he revels in it..

He deserves what he gets.

[Union Yes]

26. Oxy revels like a pig in the cool mud on a hot summer day. I approve of your message! nt

[varelse]

25. At times like this, the "Hide Thread" feature is a great comfort

:D

[Union Yes]

27. Party pooper! =)

[elocs]

29. There are a lot of haters at DU, but they believe their hate is pure, righteous, and noble.

Hate is a drink that hurts and poisons the hater, yet so many choose to suck on that bottle and are proud of their hate.

True, many here are more like freepers in this respect than they would ever care to admit.

[Hav]

31. I think it's a group thing...

For me, at least partly, it's about some wanting to be with the cool kids. We see it whenever someone from the right is sick or dies. If someone goes that I hated or who caused much harm, I wouldn't see the need to express it on an internet forum...unless it's about what a message board for some people seems to be about: getting reactions/validation in return.
But from past experiences, at least considering those who expressed themselves, you are in the minority.

The reactions you got for a calm and understandable post should tell you something.

[timtom]

32. Regardless and irrespective of any visceral reactions on my part

I totally agree with you on this one.

[AspenRose]

48. What you said.

To not acknowledge the initial visceral reaction would be dishonest....

[Violet_Crumble]

33. Yeah, it's like two sides of the same coin at times...

Not that I waste my time reading their drivel, but I remember the outrage here when Teddy Kennedy died and some conservatives were breaking out the bubbly to celebrate his death. And when some of them wish death on Obama, DU turns into a beehive of rage. But I'm seeing a few people posting some really ugly stuff and wishing death on Limbaugh who I recall were outraged when the conservatives did it to Teddy Kennedy. So to them it's okay to do it if it's someone they hate and not okay if it's someone they adore and tough shit for everyone else who don't wish death on those they detest. It's just more internet fuckwittery and not one of DU's finest hours...

[Don Caballero]

34. Sinking to the level of Teddy Kennedy?

What is that supposed to mean? Why are you attacking the Lion of the Senate? One of the few progressives to represent us?

[Violet_Crumble]

38. She said sinking to the level of freepers...

...and the sentence would hopefully have been clear for you if she'd said 'with' instead of 'and' after that. Even with the sentence reading how it was, it was very clear what Cali meant and she most definately was not attacking Teddy Kennedy...

[Don Caballero]

39. Thank you

I see what was meant now.

[cali]

45. thanks violet. I could have been clearer.

[babylonsister]

36. Rec'd. nt

[hlthe2b]

40. I think most people are NOT saying what they might be thinking

I don't like admitting even having these momentary thoughts, much less expressing them verbally or in a post. Whether it is from remnants of my childhood religious influences, a belief in the power of karma, or just a desire not to have unkind thoughts filling my head, I just don't want to waste seconds of my life with ill thoughts of others and I think most here agree that to do so, is just wrong.

I don't see much of that restraint on the "right," however. Not that we don't need the admonishment. As they say in the South, if you don't have something nice to say.... say nothing.

[UTUSN]

41. K&R to attempt to undo the usual mysterious UnReKKKs, to no avail. n/t

[Seeking Serenity]

42. cali is my DU heroine

No can (should) doubt her progressive bona-fides, but she is so often a tempering voice or reason and sanity amidst the Interwebs bomb-throwers and the (safely anonymous) cyber wanna-be revolutionaries. As an Internet community that should be about progressive IDEALS (not just progressive legislation), all too often posters here display the very worst in human nature, rationalizing and justifying in themselves the very acts or mindsets they would decry in their (mere) political opponents. The phrase is "double standard," and it's not attractive or tactically useful in people of the left or the right.

cali stands out as someone who implores us (me, anyway) to live out our progressive ideals, even with people with whom we disagree politically. A voice of calm standing out among the din.
Thank you, cali, for just being here.

[cali]

44. that is exceedingly kind of you

I'm quite sure I don't deserve such high praise, but thank you.

[shadowknows69]

43. +1 several people have tried Cali. Apparently the majority here want to act like this.

[earth mom]

46. Why do you always try to control other people?

If people want to voice their hatred for that piece o shit Rush who has done nothing but incite intense hatred and violence towards liberals-not to mention towards the good will of humanity-then that's THEIR choice to do so, NOT yours.

I've seen you get your hate on towards me and others all the time here on DU, so why in the hell would you defend that scumbag who has done so much damage to this country that it's immeasurable?! :wtf:

[cali]

50. This, dear, is a political site where people post their political opinions.

That's what I did. Am I trying to control people? No. Am I trying to influence them and asking them to reflect? Sure.

And I'm not remotely defending Rush Limbaugh? I mean really, it doesn't take a frickin' genius to get what I'm saying in the OP.

And I don't hate you. Can you HONESTLY say that YOU don't hate me.

[earth mom]

51. No, I don't hate you. You irritate me because you have opposing opinions to mine.

I save the real antipathy I feel towards people like Rush, and * & Co who have worked relentlessly to hurt people here in this country and around the world.

I reply to your posts strongly because your posts often spark a gut reaction and I have to respond.

But who the hell knows, maybe in the real world we might even agree on some things.

Or maybe not.

[Vinnie From Indy]

47. Jesus felt the same way as Cali and look what happened to him!

Feel free to send flowers, put up an Internet "get well card" or travel to Hawaii and hold prayer vigils outside that pile of shit's hotel room, but I will raise a glass in thanks that this illness might keep Limbaugh off the air for a few more days.

"On a purely personal level, I don't like seeing us sink to the level of freepers and Teddy Kennedy."

Really? Are you a horrible writer or do you really think that Ted Kennedy is on the same level as Freepers?

[cali]

49. I don't think you get what I'm saying. Maybe it is my "horrible" writing.

I'm saying that some things are better left unsaid. I can't stand Rush Limbaugh and have nothing but contempt for his vile output. I don't mind saying that. I'm glad to say it. But anything else is a bridge too far. Wishing him suffering and death is an unleashing of the id that does no good whatsoever.

Yes, my sentence about freepers and Kennedy was ill put. I should have said "Freepers re Ted Kennedy".

[Stinky The Clown]

52. I don't see "hate" here, even as so many of us are called "haters"

This is hate wrought by haters:



This is the result of hate:



This young man is dead as a result of hate:



And these are the haters who killed him:






You don't see hate here. You see ignorance and stupidity. You see misplaced machismo. You see sanctimony and just plain juvenile schoolyard taunts and bullying.

But you don't see hate. And to call it hate diminishes the impact of the word and the acts its describes.