The Democrats have a starring role as the PATSIES in this Charade

[boston bean]

And they love the role.

That is why, when they have a majority, Republicans still RULE.

That is why, when they are in a minority, you never hear them say a peep.

That is why it is getting harder and harder to find a hairs bit of difference between the outcome of policies implemented by the two parties.

[Gaywoman]

1. I agree completely!

[boston bean]

2. Thank you for you agreement, and Welcome to DU! mt

[Frosty1]

3. Are you not a democrat?

[Echo In Light]

4. I'm a liberal/lefty indie, myself...so far as ideological tags go, anyhow

[boston bean]

5. I am in principle and what the party platform portends to imply, yet our elected Dems, a good very

many of them, do not hold fast to democratic principle. I am not an elected Democrat, or a corporate democrat, or a third wayer.

I put principle over party, although this was not always the case. But to watch the 2006 majority turn into a rubber stamp for bush and to watch them force republican lite policies down our throat in the name of bi partisanship or common cause/ground, made me re think all of that.

So yes, i am a democrat based in principle, not party.

[placton]

6. actually, the poster is the REAL kinda Dem

not a Rahmdoggy

[davidwparker]

9. Sounds like the OP has taken the red pill -- overused, but still works. n/t

[fascisthunter]

25. the Poster sounds like a democrat to me

the new way DLC, not so much.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. You're right. I'm sure the McCain health reform policies would have been exactly the same.

:eyes:

[boston bean]

8. McCain wanted to tax healthcare too. I remember that. nt

[BeFree]

10. how old are you, and how long have you been following politics?

Yeah, OMG, they breathe the same air, so there is no difference!!

[Little Star]

12. That is not what she wrote, and I ask that you please stop stalking her with

the same reply.

Really, how old are you??

[BeFree]

14. Stalking me? Stalking who?

Are you and bb the same?

Posted by Little Star
"That is not what she wrote, and I ask that you please stop stalking me with
the same reply."

[Little Star]

15. No, but I do know her very well, we do live together.

And we are of the same mind most of the time.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

23. So many punchlines. So little time.

:rofl:

[boston bean]

24. Whatever....

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

11. Did McCain want to expand Medicare?

Limit the profits that insurance companies can make?

Have free preventive care?

Spend billions on community health clinics?

...just helping your memory along.

[boston bean]

18. Who's expanding medicare?

I wanna sign up!

[leftstreet]

21. OMG! Obama is exanding Medicare?! AWESOME

:eyes:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

22. My bad. I meant Medicaid

And it will be expanded, something which McCain didn't have on the table.

[asdjrocky]

13. I've been thinking the same exact thing.

It's all theatre, and that's why they are all still such "good friends."

Players in a play.

[mzmolly]

16. Which charade are we discussing?

:shrug:

[boston bean]

17. The charade

where we have two sides making pretend they hate each others guts for the masses. Each making believe they represent different values and fight to the death over them pubicly, while slapping eachother on the back as the corporatocracy keeps rolling along. Every 2, 4 or 6 years bringing out the old tired arguments on why their side is better, only to find out that the only difference is how we got to hell. But find ourselves in hell just the same. While they still bleed the poor and middle class to get re elected with corporate $$ and the corporations roll on and the cycle continues.

[mzmolly]

19. Ah,

the Nader talking point again. :hi:

[boston bean]

20. I never voted for Nader. Maybe I should have. I was the good democrat

and voted for Gore. And I wanted too. You have to stop hush hushing everyone who has concerns about how much power corporations have over our politicians and our government and us. You are turning a blind eye to it, which I think, doesn't reflect to well on you.

[mzmolly]

44. Why is it that when I share an opinion

it's considered "hush hushing" but when others do, it's conversation? In addition, you can't speak to my position on corporate influence.

[fascisthunter]

26. it's no longer a "Nader talking" point

its become mainstream, only its out in the streets. Nader seems to be right, and no, I never voted for the man, but I do have more respect for him now.

There aren't many democrats in office that represent the majority, instead most represent business interests and by doing so, they have managed to screw the party and the country, just as the GOP has, nowhere near as much and not as long, but enough to blurr the perceptions of both parties..

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

27. So you think 2008 would have looked EXACTLY the same...

if Bush / Cheney had NEVER been elected. Is that right?

[mzmolly]

29. deleted

responded to wrong person. :hi:

[fascisthunter]

30. I didn't say that, so stop with the ad hominem

I said, the dems are blurring the line, and the perception of the party itself being somewhat populist with a corporate friendly agenda. First big banks were bailed out, now this... Most intelligent people see this bill as a massive giveaway to the health insurance industry and big pharma, and now think the dems are as corrupt as the republicans.

We know the parties are not identicle but both do appear to be more representative of corporatocracy than the majority of voters who put them into power.

If Obama wanted to distance himself from this, he could have done so, but he chose not to...

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

32. For starters....

An ad hominem argument is when the person, not the idea, is attacked. I asked you to clarify a statement that you made, which is neither an attack nor is it directed against you, since I'm asking specifically about the idea that you expressed.

You Ignorant Fucktard -- See? That's an ad hominem argument. Know the difference.

No to go on, Nader said at virtually every campaign stop in 2000 that there was no difference between the two parties, as did his supporters. So if you're going to repeat Nader's talking points, you should pretty much expect that people are going to call you on it.

And to continue, TARP funding was a program created by the Bush Administration, and the same critics who said it was $800 billion flushed down the rat hole back om 2008 are NOW arguing that the money coming back from TARP in 2009 isn't as much as we think. A year from now they'll claim to have been behind the policy from the very beginning.

Should the Obama Administration be doing more for Main Street? Absolutely. But the first eight months of this Administration have concentrated on trying to put out the most immediate fires left behind by the Wrecking Crew -- the guys who Ralph Nader said were no better or worse than Al Gore. so I'm willing to wait and see what comes from this administration.

[mzmolly]

38. May I just say,

well said? :hi:

[fascisthunter]

40. Aside from calling me an "Ignorant Fucktard", You are right Jeff,

...I used the wrong word to Describe your assumption. I am so sorry for angering so much. I should have told you to stop jumping to conclusions, that I would "think 2008 would have looked EXACTLY the same... if Bush / Cheney had NEVER been elected. Is that right?"

You make the assumption that I would conclude that in 2008 there would be no difference if Bush wasn't elected. In truth, I think none of the policies Obama is continuing would be possible without his predecessors putting the policies in motion.

So no, I don't think things would be the same. Gore would have done a better job by a long shot, but he would be constrained unfortunately by the very same democratic leadership we have today, forcing the party to the right on many issues.

[mzmolly]

28. How soon

we forget, is all I can say. We would not be in this horrendous situation were Gore President in the past decade vs. Bush/Cheney.

[fascisthunter]

31. I worked for Gore... I was devestated to see Bush

of our country. It's a blight in American history in which the wealthy have taken over our government and maybe for good. Bush didn't win shit, he stole it and the Supreme Court played a hand in it.

Obama shares too many of their views for me to give the man a pass, sorry. We deserve better than this... and this party is going to pay a dare price for going toward corporatocracy. The lower classes are pissed, and rightfully so...

[mzmolly]

33. I think it's absurd

to suggest that Obama shares Bush's views. He was opposed to the war in Iraq, but he's left with the reality that we're there. The lower classes are pissed? Where is the data that backs up this assertion?

Having lived in poverty as a child, I saw the differences that were made in average cities when Reagan left office and Clinton took the helm. It will take time to clean up this collossal mess fascisthunter.

You're right, Bush stole the election. Pardon my choice of words.

[boston bean]

34. It's not what he hasn't done

it's some of the things he has done.

Torture

Expansion of War

Corporate Welfare...

Are you saying we should not be worried or is this just some good ole fixin he did.

[mzmolly]

36. I disagree with your black/white

assessment of his actions. I also listened to his policy position on Afghanistan when he ran for President. He's doing what he said he would.

[boston bean]

39. I listened to his afghan policy and is sucks now, just as it did then.

You cannot deny that what has been done is to keep the status quo.

[mzmolly]

41. I CAN easily deny

that Obama is the "status quo" if Bush is the model for the status quo.

[boston bean]

42. you are missing the point

the point is we end up in the same place, although the words are different, the agendas are different.

But you can deny that fact if you wish and try to make it cut and dry by making it seem as though I think Obama is Bush.

That is lazy and dishonest.

[mzmolly]

43. I think asserting that we end up in the same place

is lazy and dishonest. Though I will say, the Dems are a bit wimpy and we need to stand up for ourselves with more zest.

Peace

[cali]

35. believe me, if republicans really ruled, you'd see

a very different legislative agenda.

[boston bean]

37. I may see and hear a different agenda, but what about the outcome?? nt