Folks, when you leave a restaurant, make sure you leave the right ticket.

[WeDidIt]

My wife and I just had lunch. The lady that sat us was also waiting tables and had the booth right next to ours.

We ordered our drinks from our waitress and an appetizer.

Then, my wife said, "she looks like she's about to cry!"

It was the waitress who sat us. She had come up to the table to start clearing and low and behold, the wrong ticket was left. The customer's copy, with no tip.

$80 tab, and this waitress gets no tip.

Now, I've tended bar and my wife has waited tables. so I find the manager, have him charge me $0.01 for some food item with this woman as the waitress, and I wrote in a $16 tip. Of course, my wife and I didn't have a $80 tab, but I wrote our waitress a $16 tip, too. It would be bad juju to not tip our own waitress as well as I tipped a waitress who didn't wait on our table.

99.999% of the time when somebody leaves the wrong ticket, my wife and I won't be there to take care of the tip for you, so please, make sure you leave the right ticket.

And tip your waitresses. They have it as rough or rougher than anybody else out there.

[leftstreet]

1. Food servers shouldn't be paid such shit wages n/t

[WeDidIt]

4. But they are, and they live on tips.

So remember, tip your waitress and make sure you leave the right ticket if the tip is on your card.

[leftstreet]

5. LOL what if 90% of the DU community are food servers?

:eyes:

"They" are and "they" live on tips

Thanks for playing

[WeDidIt]

7. I CAN'T change the shit wages part.

I CAN make sure I tip appropriately.

[leftstreet]

12. Your appropriate personal choices separate you from the rest

that's for sure

[WeDidIt]

14. When a waitress fucks everything up from the word go to the end of the whole thing

I leave 15%. A waitress who gets only 15% from me has royally screwed up.

I don't account for quality of the food, a waitress cannot change that.

I don't account for my drinks being slow to arrive, a waitress is not the boss of a bartender.

Basically, 20% is my guideline. I also tip on the tax. Whatever that bottom line is I divide by ten and multiply by 2 and that's the least I give for good service. Generally, I round up to the next dollar or two from there. I may kick in a few more bucks, too, for genuinely good service.

Superb service gets a third of the cover.

[Bolo Boffin]

35. Something we agree on 100%

15% is baseline, period.

[WeDidIt]

63. Here's what gets a server 15% from me

1) Gets the drink order wrong.
2) Gets the appetizer order wrong.
3) Disappears for fifteen minutes after dropping off drinks but before taking entree order.
4) Gets the entree order wrong.
5) Spills an entire glass of Coca-Cola on my wife's cashmere sweater.

That got 15%.

It does go up from there, though. :)

[Roon]

100. We were in Breckenridge Colorado once

and we had dinner at a high end restaurant. First we had to sit for almost 30 minutes before we were seated. It was impossible to get a drink. We finally ordered and they brought out our salads and entrees at the same time. It was awful.

We tipped 15%. When we got outside, our server CHASED US DOWN..and informs us that the customary tip was 20%. My buddy didn't tip the extra 5%,and he was very calm about it. If it was me, I would have DEMANDED a refund on the tip and they get nothing.

[formercia]

142. I had one waiter run after me and give me my tip back.

He said: "You need this more than I do."

I took it. Fuck him.

I always tip at least 15%.

[johnaries]

42. Same here. Of course, I've been both a server and a bartender. nt

[blondeatlast]

41. Must be fun to post your self-delusions for all of us to enjoy. nt

[Quantess]

19. "thanks for playing"?

What kind of jerk still says that?

[HughMoran]

27. A kind of jerk

...that I have on ignore :eyes:

This place is filled with snarky ass holes.

[grace0418]

135. When I was a service professional living on shit wages, I still tipped well. If I didn't

have enough money for dinner and a good tip, I didn't go out.

What exactly is your point?

[phasma ex machina]

82. +1 I'm not a big eater so my tip's often larger than my bill.

[debbierlus]

108. You have to calculate the 15% into your meal total...

And, 20% for excellent service.

I only very very very rarely do not tip and that is only when the service is so horrible (not just if the meal is delayed, that can be the fault of the kitchen) that is beyond excuse.

[valerief]

8. Yep, there should be a damn law against such low wages! nt

[phasma ex machina]

83. +1 An underclass of underpaid workers gets exploited in America every day like clock work.

[bbinacan]

2. Very kind of you. n/t

[WeDidIt]

6. You'd be surprised how often the wrong ticket is left.

And most people never realize it, either.

My trick to make sure a waitress gets a tip is to take the customer's copy, right the tip on it, total it, and circle the whole thing. Then I write out and sign the innkeeper's copy and leave that one.

[TicketyBoo]

46. We always total both tickets.

If we ever did leave the wrong one, the tip would be on it, anyway.

[mac56]

3. To quote Dave Barry:

"Someone who is nice to you, but is rude to the waitress, is not a nice person."

[valerief]

9. Good one. Also, someone who is nice to you but who tailgates drivers is not a nice person either. nt

[Quantess]

50. Another good one. Also, someone who is nice to you but lets traffic pile up behind them

and doesn't pull over to let drivers pass...

[valerief]

71. You shouldn't be tailgating someone driving over speed limit in the right lane.

I get those assholes all the time. I can't drive in the breakdown lane, fer crissakes!

[Quantess]

75. I hear you. There's a road nearby where I live, very crooked and narrow,

with surprisingly, a fairly high speed limit. I don't feel comfortable driving faster than the speed limit, but every time I take that road, there is somebody on my ass who wants to straighten the curves or whatever. It's really annoying. So now I pull over before that part of the road starts, until nobody is behind me.

My first post...I was referring to the passive agressive drivers who could let the pile-up pass them but choose not to.

[valerief]

107. Anyone who drives safely in the daisy chain lanes on the highway is looking for trouble.

I stick to the right lane. On non-highway roads, I pull over sometimes. Sometimes I get so pissed off I slow down.

When I was younger, I don't remember driving that dangerously. Is everyone drunk on the roads now?

[enough]

10. Well said.

[blondeatlast]

26. I've left dates that were rude to the staff. It';s horrrendous manners and indicative of

an overall nasty attitude.

[Roon]

101. I was dating this guy some years ago when I lived in downtown Denver

and EVERY bar we tried to go to, he was 86'ed. We didn't last long..lol

[grace0418]

134. I expand that to all service professionals. I definitely judge people by the way they

treat waitstaff, sales clerks, cleaning people and others in service professions.

[walldude]

11. I have also waited tables in the past...

For crappy service I leave 20%. For good service I leave 30% and if I am eating out on a holiday I try to leave at least 50%.


There is a great website for food servers called http://bitterwaitress.com/wp/ where they leave comments about tippers. You can look up celebrities who leave shitty tips. I believe Rove was once posted on there for leaving a 2 dollar tip on a $200 bill...

edit: If you go to bitter waitress scroll down and look on the left column for the shitty tipper database.

[WeDidIt]

17. I have never eaten out on a holiday.

The shittiest tip I have ever left was 15%. 20% is the least I give for good service, which is to me, get the order right and bring it while it's still hot. A waitron just going through the motions will get precisely 20% from me. I give a third for great service.

[walldude]

20. Last year we went to see my family during the holidays

we ate at a Bob Evans diner in Fla on New Years Eve. We got there just before they closed and we were the last customers. I felt bad even though they were still open so I left the waiter $100 tip. He came running out to the car to make sure I hadn't made a mistake. It's always great to see the look on their face.. It was vacation money, I figured we could spend 100 bucks less somewhere else.

[Captain Hilts]

94. I left a $10 tip at an Aunt Sarah's pancake house two days before Christmas....

the waitress was pregnant. I think my tab was about $6. She thought I was leaving it to pay the bill. I said, "no', it's the tip. I hope you get a chance for a relaxing holiday."

[spooky3]

133. I get an error when I try to use their database. I also did a google search and got another

shitty tipper database but it too was inaccessible. Maybe the lawyers shut them down...

I always leave at least 20% and it's annoying to go out with another person (when we're splitting bills) and s/he leaves a lot less--I can imagine it's more than annoying to the waitstaff.

The advice I have always heard is that if you get bad service, tell the manager at the time so it can be corrected. Don't wait and use it as an excuse not to tip.

[laughingliberal]

13. k & r n/t

[aikoaiko]

15. It would make sense to have a restaurant rule that if no tip is indiciated then 17.5% tip is added

Or some such protection against the accidental. If someone doesn't want to tip, then then can enter in $0.00.

Restaurants do that automatic tip stuff on 6+ seating anyway. Its not that much different.

[On the Road]

18. I Was Doing Room Service at the Watergate in the 70s

and a Arab dignitary in an upper-floor room ordered large breakfast for himself and his wives. He handed me a dollar.

A Hispanic waiter saw me exiting the room, waved me over, and asked what the tip was. He said "just put 15% on the bill." I did, and no one was the wiser.

But that is not possible in most waiting situations. 20% is the standard, although I will cut the tip in half for especially bad manners and poor service.

[Ms. Toad]

40. It would make far more sense

to require that restaurants (and other traditionally tipped employment) pay their workers a reasonable wage so that tips are restored to their prior function("To Insure Prompt Service).

Tips SHOULD be voluntary, and I oppose any further trend toward shoving the direct payment of wages onto patrons (and primarily onto those of us who are aware of the wage structure restaurants are permitted to get away with, and feel compelled to make up not only for that structure - but for the jerks who we know don't carry their share of the load). I am not going to take it out on the waiter/waitress, but I am offended that our country permits people to be paid $2.13 per hour, and expects gifts to make up the difference - and am opposed to making that gift mandatory (or more coercive than it currently is).

For the record, I always tip at least 20% - more if I have occupied a table more than my share of the time, which I know means that the next party my waiter/ress should have picked up was seated elsewhere, and more if it is breakfast (since newer waiters/waitresses who get stuck heavily on the breakfast/lunch end of the day make far less (because meals cost less) than those working later in the day, or other circumstances which I know the waiter/waitress gets less than s/he should through no fault of his/her own.

[aikoaiko]

47. I wonder what would happen to waitstaffs' overall pay if they were paid a market wage

and customers were not expected to tip under normal circumstances.

[Ms. Toad]

110. It works quite well in many countries.

Australia, New Zealand, Scandinavian countries, and some Asian countries, for example.

[aikoaiko]

112. Maybe it could work, but imagine waitstaff in the US would get short changed.

[Ms. Toad]

113. Some of them might make less money than they do now,

and others lower on the totem pole (lower end restaurant, scheduling, etc.) would make more. But they could predict what they are guaranteed to earn, rather than the whim of the customer determining whether they earn even minimum wage.

[TicketyBoo]

51. My father,

who was an old-time union organizer, despised tipping and the need for it. He tipped, but so grudgingly that we rarely ate out.

[Taitertots]

76. The proper function of tips isn't to ensure quality service

They are designed as price discrimination. It takes people otherwise unwilling to pay the full cost (meal+ service expense) increasing the workload for the workers without increasing their wages.

[Ms. Toad]

111. That is their current use,

made formal by statutes which permit certain classes of workers to be paid less.

I am suggesting that practice should be abolished - tipped employees should be required to be paid the same minimum wage as everyone else. That will increase the menu prices - across the board for all diners, not merely to those who believe that the wait staff should not bear the brunt of bad policy decisions and tip more to make up for those who don't tip at all (or severely under-tip). Tips could then revert to their original purpose of encouraging/rewarding good or extraordinary service rather than merely shifting who pays the employee from the restaurant owner to the diner.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. You're good people, you and your wife!

I hope you know that it ALWAYS comes back to you double!

:grouphug:

[WeDidIt]

25. I don't seek anything from this

other than to have people like you respond so more people kick it and more people realize that this is really a big problem for waitrons.

:grouphug:

[flvegan]

21. That was very kind of you and your wife.

[WeDidIt]

31. Do me a favor, tell other people about this.

You would not believe how much of a problem this is for waitrons. It's one of the biggest complaints they have these days because so many people pay with plastic and so many people take the wrong slip.

And the restaurant get's their part because it has already hit the card. Sadder yet, the waitron still has to tip out bar tenders, bussers, hostesses, and even cooks in some restaurants, even though they didn't get a tip.

[flvegan]

38. I have a habit of overtipping

and if I'm with a group and we're splitting the bill a few ways I insist that we as a group do the server right and make sure they know why. I worked in a pub when I was young so I saw how undertipping and cashing out really ran down what they made each night.

[Berry Cool]

49. I have made a habit out of never putting the tip on the card. Always cash.

That way the person who waited on me, if there is any justice to the system, at least has a chance to get the cash in hand, on that day. If it later has to be shared with others, then that's beyond my control, but leaving it in cash at least means no delay between when the person I gave it to earned it and when he/she receives and can start spending it. For all I know, they may need it to pick up some stuff on the way home. Some people live that close to the bone and if I can help them by paying tips in cash, I will.

[tbyg52]

55. I did that once, on one of the few meals I've ever paid with a credit card, years ago.

It confused the waiter something awful. But a) it was years ago, and b) we got the confusion straightened out.

[WeDidIt]

56. My problem is, I seldom carry cash

so I try to make up for it by overtipping in most cases.

[dysfunctional press]

66. that's what i do to, and for the same reason.

and when i do, i also write 'cash' on the line where it says 'tip amount'(but i don't write the amount).

[tblue37]

106. I used to wait tables, and I also like to leave cash. I want to make sure the

server gets it, so I prefer to hand it to him/her, so no one else can swipe it from the table, which happens all too often.

[Marr]

22. I'm sure I'll get raked over the coals for this, but what the hell.

When you seek congratulations for a selfless deed, it ceases to be a selfless deed. It seems to me like you wanted praise and thanks a lot more than fairness.

When I was a kid, I was dirt poor. I mean literally, dirt floors and a piece of plywood for the front door. Every few years some different group of well-to-do people would come around and distribute their children's worn out toys to us poor kids via some charitable organization. They'd very often have their own kids do the handing off.

I despised these people and avoided them every time I could. It became clear very quickly that they didn't give a shit about *me*, they just wanted to do a "good deed" that would be recognized by their peers (who were always along for the trip into po' town), assert their own position in the world, and be thanked profusely by some kid for "giving" him something that they didn't value anymore. I still think about the expressions on their faces around Christmastime. Five parts disgust at their surroundings, two parts self-righteous pride. I would've been much happier if they'd just left me be and not turned *my* Christmas into *their* "Dig Me" session.

[WeDidIt]

24. I don't seek congratulations

I seek to make sure people leave the right ticket.

And tip their waitrons.

My act was not selfless. My act was the act of somebody who's been there and knew he could change the outcome. My point in posting what I did was not to point out what I did, but to make sure people would read the damned post. HAd I not posted what happened in its entirety, nobody would have bothered responding, nobody would have kicked this and maybe thirty people would have read it.

But more importantly, leave the right ticket. It happens so often and as I said before, most people who do it don't even know they've done it.

[Berry Cool]

54. Yeah, and maybe it will help others do something better, too.

I don't post here about always tipping in cash because I want kudos or praise. I don't give a damn about that. I do it in hopes that the message will maybe reach someone else who never thought much before about how people who wait tables deal with making a living, or how hard it is for some of them, and do likewise to make life easier for everyone.

Same thing with people who, in general, teach their children to be loving and giving and generous. Not all of them do it for the strokes. They do it because they genuinely want their kids to understand that there is need in this world and that they should do what they can to help. Many of them make a practice of doing their giving anonymously and with as little attention brought to themselves as possible, because they don't believe it's about them, and they don't believe people in misfortune should have to sacrifice their pride to get help or be lorded over or made to feel small--especially because it's a crazy world, and one day you can be the giver and the next day you can be the one who needs help. One never knows.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

86. I, for one, am glad you wrote this OP.

I can think back and remember a few times when I went home with the signed copy. Now I'm trying to rack my brain and wonder if I screwed someone over.

[tbyg52]

48. I certainly see your point

but I think the OP just wanted to make a suggestion, and a good one.

[dysfunctional press]

64. it's like the people who pat themselves on the back for working a soup kitchen on thanksgiving/xmas-

but wouldn't be bothered to give them the time of day the other 363 days of the year.
assholes.
:grr: :grr: :grr:

[Leftist Agitator]

23. You really want to do something nice the next time you're out?

Tip the kitchen. They work harder under terrible conditions than anyone in the whole damn restaurant, and they usually make FAR less than the waitresses and bartenders. In fact, the only lower paying position than line cook is usually the dishwasher.

[WeDidIt]

28. I've done all those jobs

Many restaurants have the waitrons tip the cooks now. The bussers get tipped, too.

I don't think the dishwasher ever gets tipped. :(

[glowing]

37. That depends.. Whatever I took from my tables, half went back to the rest of the

staff.. even the dishwasher.

[Leftist Agitator]

87. I'd love to know of a restaurant that tips out the kitchen.

Every one that I've ever worked at hasn't given shit to the kitchen.

At my last restaurant job, I'd go in for eight hours Friday and Saturday, make a whopping $72 before taxes, and have to listen to the servers gleefully tell each other how much they made:

"I made $200 tonight!"

"I had four big tables, I made $350!!!"

"I had a bad night. I only made $120."

I wanted to fucking strangle each and every one of them. All they did was take orders, deliver food to tables, and ask "Is everything OK with your meal?". Meanwhile, yours truly was in the kitchen sweating her ass off in 120 degree heat moving at top speed to get orders out as quickly as possible.

We had a large banquet one day where they were bitching up a storm because they were only making $10 / hour.

"Why should I come in and ruin my day if I'm only leaving with $40?"

It took every ounce of willpower to not punch the girl who said that in the face. Nor did I tell her, "Listen up, you prissy bitch! I come in six days a week, every week, most of the time for four and five hour shifts, and I only make $9 / hour. Shut the fuck up and consider yourself lucky that you earn damn good money doing basically nothing."

The next time you're at a restaurant, leave a few bucks specifically for the kitchen staff. Trust me, they'll appreciate it.

[SoCalDem]

62. or make it a policy to actually write a letter, naming the server

write a real letter..not an email..

Commend them for their good service & say something nice about them.
Stuff like this really makes a difference..and in time of layoffs, those commendations could mean the difference bewteen a job and not having a job,,

People are always ready to write a nasty complaint letter, but few take the time to write a nice letter to the boss..

years ago, someone did it for me, and I have never forgotten how great if felt to be called the the bank president;s office, only to be presented with a letter someone wrote about me, to tell him how nice I was to them, and how I took such good care of them.. I did not even really remember the lady who wrote the letter, but it sure made my day :)

[phasma ex machina]

84. +1 "take the time to write a nice letter to the boss." Such letters get noticed at raise time.

[druidity33]

114. i work as a prep cook.

I make an hourly wage of $8,25. That's the min wage in Massachusetts. For a 5 hour shift i take home maybe $30 after taxes. The waitrons in my restaurant make around $3 an hour and average $10-15 an hour in tips. The bartender makes double that... some nights triple. Most servers claim only part of their tip wage (if at all), so that's 'tax free'.

I don't believe the waitron always deserves a tip. In fact i think it's important for the server to know if they DO A BAD JOB (most often through no fault of the kitchen or anyone else) that they will getting significantly less because of that. The waitrons blame everyone they can so that the customer doesn't take it out on them.

Also, the face presented to the customer by waitstaff is not the face we get in the kitchen. If you work in a busy, established restaurant they can be cutthroat. I agree with the other poster that if your food's good and the service sucks... tip the kitchen staff.


Of course there are perfectly excellent waitrons that deserve good tips. But not all the time.

:shrug:

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. Your Karma is secure for the New Year. Goodonya. n/t

[An_Opened_Hand]

30. If possible, leave Cash.

I had friends who waited (actors) and they preferred to have the tips as cash. That way they didn't have to wait on the owner to give them the money from the till at the end of the evening. I even heard of restaurants that cheated a lot of their wait staff out to the tip money through the credit card process. But, yea, I try to make sure that I leave the right ticket, to do the math right (let my wife double check me) and sigh it. I always treat wait staff with respect. As one of my waiter friends said to me, "Why do you want to piss me off, I'm alone with your food!"

[RoadRage]

34. They also don't claim as much for tax reasons...

cash is better, but sadly - I never have any with me. I only have my debit card on me 99.9% of the time.. so it's that or nothing.

[phasma ex machina]

85. I also use cash for all of my "mom and pop" retail purchases.

[Forkboy]

32. "Wait a minute, who didn't throw in?"

Always tip them, heavily if possible.

[Taitertots]

33. The Tipocracy is a fraud

Everyone I know that is in food service getting tips makes dramatically more than all the people who make actual minimum wage.


To just go to a restaurant I have to be guilt tripped by beggars. I do tip, but that is just to stop the vermin from spitting in my food. So it is more extortion than gratuity.


Oh yeah, I've worked at fast food getting minimum wage and no tips.


The only person you help when tipping is the management and the owner. You just remove any reason to pay workers a reasonable rate. Excessive tipping only gives them an incentive to lower wages.

[blondeatlast]

43. If that's the case, why not get a job as a server and you can then enjoy the same prosperity?

What's wrong with them "mak(ing dramatically more than all the people who make actual minimum wage?

Except I doubt your touch of sociopathy will lead to wealth--just a guess.

[Taitertots]

61. There is nothing wrong with it, I hope they make the as much if not more

What is wrong is pretending they are so hard up, not that they are making the money. They could make just as much if the real costs of eating out were covered by the bill and this increase was reflected in their wages. If you are looking for someone for spontaneous giving find someone who actually makes a low wage. The people who are really suffering. Not me, the real working poor. Not spoiled prima donna servers who complain about how their tips match the quality of their service.

I don't work as a server because I already make over minimum wage and do dramatically less work. So are you asking me why I don't take a pay cut to do more work? I'm sure the answer should be apparent. I'm already put my time in working in fast food, having to put up with worse customers, demanding workload, and still making less money. While I did that I never expected people to give me additional money simply for doing my job correctly, and I still don't.

Why are you defending a system that only serves to benefit the investment class at the direct cost to the workers and consumers? Paying excessive tips only props up the tipocracy system. Pay workers a living wage, and tips for excellent service. Don't pay workers a slave labor and make them grovel to customers for tips. Vote with your dollars, I'm not willing to spend $100 on a meal prepared by people making $2.50 per hour, and have to pay them $20 extra to cover my guilt for exploiting them.

[WeDidIt]

44. Hmmmmm......

[Taitertots]

67. A picture of a guy washing his car photoshopped to look like it is raining

I don't think people should have to depend on the good will of others for their income. Especially when the only reason to justify it is the bottom line for investors.

[Fool Count]

80. Exactly. There never will be a decent wage paid to servers as long as this

bizarre and uniquely American tipping culture persists. In fact, the only way to force
the industry to pay a living wage to its workers is to collectively refuse paying tips.
Taken to the extreme, that barbaric custom only distorts economic incentives and prevents
the labor market from working properly. For instance, in Russia and Ukraine (and most
other ex-USSR countries) it was long customary to pay tips to medical professionals
(doctors, nurses and technicians). Now it is literally at the point when medical workers
make most of their "compensation" from those patient payments, being paid a miserly
official wages. So it developed into an inhumane pay-as-you-go system when nobody would
lift his ass before collecting a cash off-the-books payment from patients or their
relatives. Needless to say that such payments cannot be made a part of any health insurance.
I went through this with my terminally ill mother, and find such kind of extortion
demeaning and infuriating to the extreme. Of course, the governments (who employ most
medical staff there) will never give them a decent living wage as long as they have people
lining up to fill the medical vacancies to line their pockets with those supposedly illegal
patient payments. They can't prosecute them either, because everyone knows that doctors'
families must eat too, and they cannot do it on their salaries alone. You may retort that
the tip extortion in restaurant industry is different, since no human lives are at stake there,
and I will agree. But the fundamental principles of the two rackets, the vicious circles they
create and their demeaning nature to both workers and customers are almost exactly the same.
Why should only the food servers (and very few others) be singled out among all the workers to
participate in this baksheesh economic system is beyond me. There is, certainly, no valid
economic reason for it, as in many countries with lively restaurant scenes tips are neither
expected nor routinely paid (Australia being just one example). So the reason for it must be
purely historic, similar to keeping the British imperial system in the US (the only remaining
country in the world btw). Imagine now that most other workers would also depend with their livelihood
on tips (not a complete fantasy in some baksheesh economies in Asia and Africa). How the economy
is supposed to work when workers compensation is determined not by market's conditions but by
some informal "understanding"? BTW, what is the origin of this "understanding" and what's up
with this tip inflation in the US? I remember times when 10% was considered a decent tip, somehow
it got to be 15%, then 20%, and now I hear some say 30% should be the new norm. Who decides that?
Inquiring minds want to know.If you ask me, the system, to large extend, is driven by customers
themselves. It is a part of an overall restaurant experience to complete an enjoyable meal (a definite
luxury for many in the US) with a self-congratulatory act of generosity toward someone perceived
as less fortunate. That is like convincing ourselves that we are in the right stratum of the class
structure. When I moved to Australia, I first too found it psychologically hard to not offer a server
a tip, which was always gratefully, if somewhat bemusedly, accepted. Eventually, I got over it, and
now I do not have to show anyone (most of all myself) how generous I am to waiters (who btw make
$15 an hour here). Whether this useless and demeaning habit can be broken in the US, I strongly doubt.
We all remember how the metric system introduction went.

[WeDidIt]

81. AAAAUUUUGGGHHH!!!! MY EYES!!!

Line breaks and formatting paragraphs are your friends.

As to the "uniquely American" bullshit you're spouting, I suggest you educate yourself by actually leaving this country at least once:

http://www.gonomad.com/traveldesk/0806/tipping.html

[Fool Count]

88. If you actually read my post you would know that I have left it already.

For good. And did it quite happily. Before that, I left it many times,
having visited all continents. And nowhere was I required to pay 30%
tips in a restaurant. In fact, in most (not all) countries I was not
required to pay any tips at all. Yet, the restaurants there seemed to be
functioning just fine. As to taking instructions on how much I should pay
anyone from an obscure website, I will leave it to someone whose eyes
are to painful and sore from self-righteousness to observe the surrounding
reality and make his own conclusions. That quality of not being able to
get past the soreness of one's eyes to absorb anything however slightly
diverting from a preconceived notion is also very uniquely american.

Here is a line break for your sore eyes. Hope they enjoyed it.

What the hell, here is another one. Consider it a tip.

[WeDidIt]

91. I would have read it, honestly

if you formatted it in anything approaching a readable format.

Shit, I couldn't even read your latest piece of shit.

Learn to format so people can read. They may actually read what you wrote.

[Fool Count]

96. That's just too bad, that you did not learned how to read.

Well, as long as you have a tip calculating function on your calculator,
you should do OK. I only wonder how can you make a sense out of tip-suggestion
tables on various websites? Did you ask your waiters to read them to you?
Do you tip them extra for that? Do youe eyes also hurt from looking at such
an ashole in the mirror? I am hoping you ask someone to read my post to you
and dictate him an answer. I really want to know.

[WeDidIt]

97. I "learned" how to read long ago

I refuse to read bullshit with no formatting as it is unpleasant on the eyes.

So learn to format, and somebody might actually read whatever bullshit it is you want to spout.

[Maine-ah]

126. I am curious as to what the meals cost

at the restaurants where servers make $15 per hour.

[Fool Count]

129. In general, I would say that in Australia you will find somewhat higher

menu prices than in the US, but factoring in the 20% tip expected in the US
will make a comparable meal in comparable restaurants in comparable size
cities cost you about the same in both countries. That is, of course, is
just my impression based on my personal experience, obviously I did not do
any quantitative comparison. I can say that I never had to pay more than
$110 AUD ~ $100 USD for a dinner for two with wine/beer in an Australian
restaurant, and I have been to some very good ones. Granted, neither
myself nor my wife are a really big eater, and the fanciest establishments
are out of our reach on account of having to drag a couple of little kids
around with us, but a typical dinner at a nice place would cost around
$80-90 AUD, with $110 being the case when you go for oysters and champaign.

That experience makes me believe that US waiters must also net somewhere
around $15 an hour inclusive of their tips, and that the same amount would
be very close to the market price for their labour, if the tips were eliminated.

[Silent3]

115. Take some constructive criticism...

...instead of just spitting back the "Fuck you if you can't deal with it!" attitude.

That much text as in your last post, not broken into paragraphs, IS hard on the eyes and harder to read than better formatted text. If you want people to read what you've written and not be more tempted to give up before trying, line breaks are your friend.

[Fool Count]

117. Why in the world would I care if my posts could be read by someone

who fails to comprehend a text without line breaks? What next, I am supposed to
break all the words into syllables for them? If absence of line breaks prevents
one pompous self-congratulatory prick from reading my posts, it's all good.

[Silent3]

119. Why post at all if you don't care about your posts being read?

The way you post likely bothers many more people than any supposed "pompous self-congratulatory prick" who comments about it.

This is not about anyone who "fails to comprehend", and I think you know that. You're just spouting that shit because you're being reflexively insulting to anyone who would dare criticize you instead loving everything about you "just as you are".

[Fool Count]

122. Several possible reasons. For instance, I could just like the process of

posting. I could also like making certain people's eyes hurt. Posting may
also be a pleasant distraction from whatever else I happen to be doing
now. I may enjoy being insulting, not necessarily reflexively, to several
different groups of people, and rude illiterate criticizers is definitely
one such group. Of course, many of those groups are the same whose readership
I could not care less about. But I am not claiming to be without any
contradiction. I have a complete complement of people who love everything
about me "just as I am". If I had any more, I would have to begin starting
DU threads touting my own greatness. I am not there yet.

[Silent3]

123. To criticize bad writing style is a form of illiteracy?

Again, you attempt to deflect your own deficiency and cast it as a fault of anyone who would criticize that fault.

Spelling it out so maybe you can catch on: No one is saying that they are INCAPABLE of understanding your words. They are saying that a large unbroken blob of text makes it more difficult and UNPLEASANT to do so.

This will be true for many people who aren't "rude illiterate criticizers".

Of course, saying any of this is probably a waste of time, as I can see you're one of those belligerent, "Yeah, I'm an asshole! So what!?" kind of people.

[Fool Count]

127. You are very wrong, I am not one of "those people" at all.

In fact, I rather enjoy and can be very receptive to a constructive criticism.
It baffles me, however, to see how anyone who did read the original response to
my (admittedly less than expertly formatted) post consider it a constructive
criticism and not a gratuitous personal insult. Go back, read it again, and tell
me that you think it was an example of "constructive criticism", then I will have
one more person I will enjoy insulting. I am certainly not going to take this shit
from some dick whose proudest achievement is presenting 16 bucks to somebody else's
waitress. Would you?

[Silent3]

130. I was merely responding to the "AAAAUUUUGGGHHH!!!! MY EYES!!!" sentiment.

For that, previous context doesn't much matter. Regardless of anything else said previously in the thread, that's the same feeling I get when I see a big blob of text like that.

If you were angry with the other poster for something else, that was hardly clear in the displeasure you showed focused so much on the criticism of your writing, and your insistence that any problem with your writing was a sign of illiteracy.

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taitertots]

116. Your solution is not going to help

The only solution is to refuse to patronize places that refuse to pay an acceptable wage. While tipping a reasonable amount the times you "must" go.


Not tipping just strengthens the system. Making them do more work for less money.

[Fool Count]

120. No, it does not, if everybody does it.

Without the tips no waiter will accept a job unless a decent wage is
attached to it. The restaurant owners will have to pay a market price
for their hired labour instead of shaming his customers into paying for
it based on guidance from an obscure website or discussion threads like
this one.

[Taitertots]

124. What are they going to do, quit their jobs?

In this economy are you kidding? All that will do is make them suffer while having little option.

The real "Market price" is actually well below minimum wage, which is the reason for minimum wage laws.

[Fool Count]

128. Of course, they will quit their jobs, wouldn't you?

Would you keep working such backbreaking job for the wages they are paid
and no tips? I strongly doubt that the real market price for waiter's
labour is "well below" minimum wage. In fact, it may be very close to
what they are making now with the tips, since the customers are willing
to pay that given amount for a meal (whether with extra tips or with
menu prices increased by the same amount) and the owners are willing
to accept the current profit margins. So I don't see how the servers
will end up getting paid much less when the tipping customs are abolished.
They may even end up getting paid more and, better still, their wages will
be guaranteed and stable, decreasing the currently high turnover rate in
the industry and encouraging excellence and professionalism of the staff.

As to your suggestion of not patronizing any establishment which does not
pay a decent wage to its staff, it could be efficient, or even practical,
only in conjunction with a law requiring all restaurants to post their
hourly wages at the door. Otherwise, I have no way of finding out how
much they are actually paying their servers, other then asking a waiter
about it and then leaving the establishment upon his/her unsatisfactory
answer.

Besides, if I wanted to follow your suggestion now, I would have to give
up going out for meals altogether, as I know of no restaurants where
waiters are making a decent living age nowadays. Do you?

[Taitertots]

139. Your positions presumes the equilibrium wages are above the minimum wage

In reality there is no shortage of people willing to work for very low wages. The equilibrium wages are well below the minimum wage. Your plan assures that wages stay as low as they can ever get.

You plan also presumes that these people could get jobs elsewhere. I assume you know we are in a great depression level economic meltdown. The sad truth is that there simply are no jobs for them to go to. They would either have to accept lower wages or no wages.

My suggestion is that you avoid most restaurants. Vote with your dollars. When you do need to go, tip with a reasonable amount. It is not their fault everyone sold them out for the illusion of savings and service. Refusal to tip simply makes more work for them for no extra money, just so the owners can make more money.

[freeplessinseattle]

95. Dino Rossi, is that you?

Still gnashing your teeth over losing the Guv race again, guess all the food servers didn't care for your brilliant idea of lowering their wages. I'd be afraid to eat out now without a disguise!

[MilesColtrane]

131. Waiters and waitresses are "vermin"?

You're a real class act.

[Taitertots]

140. Read the sentence again

Does it say that all wait staff are vermin? Or that I have to pay them all to avoid the vermin spitting in my food?

I think people who would contaminate food because they are greedy are vermin.

Keep the poutrage to yourself. Everyone else had no problem understanding it. I suppose I should have used the term "people who would contaminate food because they are greedy".

[MilesColtrane]

144. .

[Fla Dem]

36. Most of the time I fill out both slips, indicating the tip on both. That way

I know exactly what I spent and can match it up to my charge card bill. Otherwise I leave cash so that eliminates the problem. In any event good on you for taking care of the waitress. I hope the good will comes around to you in the new year.

[Maine-ah]

39. I am a server, a bartender and a manager.

the wrong slip is left all the time, and sometimes they'll take both.

Thankyou!

[Cleita]

45. As a former restaurant worker, how can they leave with both the bills?

That means they didn't pay. I guess the places I worked at had much tighter controls on the receipts.

[WeDidIt]

53. The meal has already gone on their card

The server takes the check and the card, rings it up, runs the card, gets a merchant's copy and a customer's copy, and takes that back along with the card.

The meal has already hit the card.

The server should get the merchant's copy back signed with the tip added in. Instead, they get a blank customer's copy.

Restaurant gets paid for the meal. Server gets stiffed for a tip.

[Cleita]

59. See, where I worked we never gave them the receipt until we picked up

the signed copy with the tip.

[Maine-ah]

102. everything is done on a POS

so, yes it's recorded that they paid, but the server does not have the CC slip so they lose the tip. Tips on CC's are put into the system after the guest has paid their check. As far as I know all systems work this way. I can always reprint the CC slip. I can't however add a tip to it.

[Cleita]

105. The way our servers did it is that they had their own banks in their aprons, usually a small .

amount. The bartenders could give them cash for tickets if they ran short. At the end of their shifts they had to cash out and they took their tips right then and there from the cash for the CCs. The only way they got stiffed was if they weren't keeping track of their tickets and the CC receipts. It seems to me that the house isn't caring if they get things working for them. A lot of them just need someone to care to teach them how to do the bookkeeping end of their job systematically. Frankly, I always found the servers so hungry for their tips that they were more than willing to learn.

[Maine-ah]

125. yes our servers carry their own banks too.

however, it's now no longer legal to make a server provide their own banks. Thats a different issue.

I am going to suggest to management that we start doing what you did at your restaurant. Makes sense to me :hi:

[freeplessinseattle]

52. why doesn't the cust. copy have the tip part on it??

seems it would help the customers keep better track of their spending. whoever came up with that design is an idiot-now that could be a little project for someone with the pluck and resources-and personality to sell. Bet restaurants would snap them up!

Maybe that's one reason the waitperson's eyes always light up when they see the green in my hand. Except for the one gal who obviously wasn't used to cash and was still poring over my bill (for me alone) with a calculator plus pen and pencil 15 minutes later. The sure thing cash in hand sure made it worth her while, though!

[WeDidIt]

It does, and I use it to track the check in my account

but most people do not use that.

My trick for always remembering to leave the merchant's copy is to write the tip on my copy, write the total, and circle everything. Then I write the same tip and total on the merchant's copy, sign it, and leave the copy without the circle.

If I fuck up for some stupid reason, the server still has a copy of what my intentions were.

There was one time I fucked up on my math and left a 15% tip when I had intended a 25% tip. I called back, talked to the manager, and insured the correct tip was left.

[freeplessinseattle]

89. ok, now I'm just confused

and I don't even drink!

are you saying that the cust. copy does have the tip amount, it just doesn't count unless it's the merchant copy? (and you write it down on your copy to be safe and see it better later?).

Pardon my denseness, I've obviously never had to deal with cc's in these types of situations, only when I worked retail.

That is really sucky. Sadly, probably happens even more on big nights like tonight when people have been drinking, and have big bills. I'd be on the verge of tears too (but would have been fired for clumsiness long before anyway, lol).

[WeDidIt]

92. It's up to the manager if you leave it unsigned

and the customer copy has no signature.

Mostly, people leave the customer copy with nothing written on the tip line when this happens.

[freeplessinseattle]

93. gotcha. I'd assumed they had the special paper

that transfers thru, so the sig is on all copies, like we did back in the day in retail...but some places may do it different, and maybe they want the original sig to make sure the customer actually approved the tip, is that the whole point? I can see how they want to protect the customer but at the expense of the waitstaff getting shafted time and again.

Geez, you'd think with all the potential for mess-ups there'd be a simpler way to fix the problem since people really are oblivious so much of the time. Thanks to you at least some DUers will be paying better attention now!

[Nikki Stone1]

57. The restaurant should adjust for this. Why they don't is a mystery.

Not taking away from what you did, it was a nice thing. But the real problem here is that human error occurs and the restaurant should have a back-up way of compensating wait staff if an unintentional human error occurs. The wait staff should not be paid based on the vagaries of the customer and the restaurant should not be pocketing an extra 15% surcharge on the meal.

[yodoobo]

78. Probably credit cards agreements

And its probably fraud to add a tip that the customer didn't specify.

[Maine-ah]

103. you win

:) you can not add a tip to a CC slip that is 1. blank in the area for tip 2. unsigned

you can not tamper with the slip in anyway.

[Gormy Cuss]

90. If the restaurant gave a hoot about its workers, they could handle this with a small policy change.

As Cleita wrote, all it takes is to withhold the customer receipt until the signed merchant copy is ready for pick up. I suspect that throwing both copies on the table at the same time is considered better on average and that's why it's done this way.

OTOH using the older two part receipts where the yellow customer copy is underneath the merchant copy would really cut down on the problem too, but that type of system probably costs more.

[bvar22]

58. I can't remember EVER agreeing with you about anything,

but I DO agree here.
Mark your calendar.
Thanks for posting this.
:patriot:
K&R

[WeDidIt]

60. Hey brother, tip those servers!

They're working hard to make your dining experience excellent!

:grouphug:

[chrisa]

65. That's realy messed up.

I could see accidentally leaving the wrong ticket by accident, but not leaving a tip with a $80 meal (or with any meal) is really mean.

[WeDidIt]

68. Most likely, it was accidental

and most likely, the person doing it will never notice or will only notice after it's already too late when the bill clears their account.

It happens all the time in restaurants and the restaurants themselves don't care too much because they're getting the money for the meal any way.

[yodoobo]

69. I just read that article.

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/food/20-secrets-your-waiter-will-never-tell-you-550722/

Item #20


I think what makes it worse is that the slips used to duplicate automatically. But now they are printed on regular paper or paper that doesn't duplicate.

Reading that people actually pickup the wrong one kinda suprised me though.

[Meldread]

70. I actually play a little game when I eat out...

...well a game with myself mostly. Basically, I try and charm the waiter / waitress. I smile, act very nice, use all my best manners, strike up a brief but pleasant conversation (generally something along the lines, 'They're working you hard to night, eh?' if the place looks busy.) The goal is to get them to smile, and like me as a customer. It's not entirely out of the goodness of my heart, because I know it pays back tenfold. If they like me, I know they'll work twice as hard to ensure that I'm pleased and that all the needs I have are taken care of... and of course, I leave a good tip at the end.

It's kinda fun, especially if you get someone who looks like they've had a hard / bad shift. It brightens their day a little and it pays dividends. Really, that's the general rule I've learned in life. If you treat people well - you smile, you respect them, show kindness - they'll generally return the favor in spades. Most people just want to feel appreciated, and once you've made them feel that appreciation, they'll work hard to keep from disappointing you.

[WeDidIt]

72. My wife and I become well known in the restaurants we frequent

Wait staff will often go out of their way to serve us when they see us being seated. Managers tend to try to talk to us because they hear about us from their staff.

We try to always be pleasant to wait staff for the same reasons you point out, and it always comes back to you in future visits to the establishment, which is nice when you're taking somebody else there.

[Meldread]

79. Exactly.

I have a local restaurant that I frequent every now and then. When I show up, I'm always given first class treatment. I've had both the manager and cook come out to personally see how I was enjoying my meal. Really, like I said I've learned that making others feel appreciated pays off. It's an arrangement that works well both ways.

It's one reason I have a hard time understanding why some people would treat servers and other staff badly. They also reap what they sow.

[ddeclue]

73. That wasn't an "accident" it was a CHEAP BASTARD.

Thank you for your kindness.

[WeDidIt]

77. In this instance, I'll give this person the benefit of the doubt

I have seen it happen before where I would not give the person the benefit of the doubt but was firmly convinced leaving the wrong ticket was intentional, though.

[npk]

74. You would be surprised how many people do this shit on purpose

I am not saying the party in this OP intentionally left the customer copy behind, but I have heard from many servers that people will fail to sign tickets, leave the wrong copy, and even cross through the tip total. They will then act like everything is fine when they leave. I guess it makes them feel better to have the server thinking that it was all just a mistake, when they intended to stiff the server all along.

[H2O Man]

98. My wife and I went

out to eat this evening. We traveled a ways, to go to a place that was a railroad station in the 1800s. It's not the railroad that I'm most familiar with, though both my father and grandfather had worked for it for brief periods.

My poor wife had to listen to my rambling talk about the building's history, though I had never been there before. To make a long story medium length, I asked the waitress if they had any pamplet etc on the building's history? She brought back a magazine, with a brief article by a regional historian that I am familiar with. We got talking, and it turned out that her grandfather had worked there, also. I said that I have boxes of my father's old railroad materials, much of which I donate to museums, historical societies, etc. And that I'd look for something about this building, frame it, and bring it the next time we return.

They ended up giving me the magazine, as the owner had another copy. I left the waitress a tip of about 50%, which ended up a fair sum. When we were leaving, she came out and thanked me. I said that she had definitely earned it.

[Hawkeye-X]

109. Nice to see you up and around!

Just wanted to drop a note and say hi, and happy New Year!

[Roon]

99. I have a lady friend who waits on tables

when she goes out to eat, she is very, very generous about tipping.

[smokey nj]

104. Most people who've worked for tips are generous tippers.

I was a waitress at one time. As long as the person serving my meal doesn't take a dump on my plate and call me the "c" word, they're getting at least 20%.

[taterguy]

118. If I ever wait on you I'll remember to call you patron instead of customer

[grace0418]

136. Ever since I worked retail as my full-time job, I have always advocated that everyone

should work retail or wait tables for at least a year in their life. AND have to live off the wages they make. Everyone I know who has done that is a good tipper and very patient with retail clerks, because they how hard the job is. I haven't worked retail for many, many years and I still remember.

[FLAprogressive]

121. Am I missing something or do people not leave cash tips anymore?

[freddie mertz]

132. K &R. YES restaurant servers should get better wages, BUT until they do...

They LIVE on the tips, which is why 15 % is the absolute minimum i would EVER leave.

Anyone who shortchanges on tips is an asshat, and should be registered as a Republican.

[Kansas Wyatt]

137. I always tip over 20%

And sometimes I feel guilty, because it's just me and it still doesn't add up to much of a tip.

[jgraz]

141. In a fair economic system, your waitress wouldn't have to beg for crumbs from your table.

But that would make me your "ideological enemy", wouldn't it?

Oh well, enjoy your noblesse oblige.

[LouKneeLib]

143. Tips are a cruel joke

32$ for chauffeuring food and drinks across a room? :nopity:

I'd guess the dish washers at that establishment didn't take home $8 in that same time.

Personally, I think wait staff should be subject to the minimum wage laws. All tips should be distributed equally to the cooks, dishwashers, hostesses, bar tenders, and anyone else involved with putting on the sizzle so to speak. If the servers don't like it, there are always dishes to be washed. I worked as a dishwasher in college in a nice restaurant for minimum wage. After taxes, I'd walk out with 30$ if I was lucky, the waitresses could easily earn 100-200$ on the same night plus an extra 20$ (hourly wage total) for showing up and breathing air. No one's work should be worth more than anyone else in a restaurant.

The waitress gets all the credit, the dishwashers and bus boys are simply another group of victims to the bile that is Capitalism. Some animals are more equal than others.