A 2nd passenger from flight 253 comes forward about a man filming the event.

[snagglepuss]

Earlier today (link below) I posted a Daily Maily story about passenger Patricia Keepman "who says she saw a man calmly filming the whole flight - including the attempted detonation.

Mrs Keepman was travelling back from Ethiopia with her husband, daughter and two newly adopted children, and was sitting around 20 rows back from Abdulmutallab.

The other man 'sat up and videotaped the entire thing, very calmly. We do know that the FBI is looking for him intensely,' she said."

Now another passenger, Beau Taylor has come forward to confirm he saw the same thing.

snip

Taylor says he notified the FBI of what he saw, in hopes of helping them to obtain footage of the foiled attack.

"There’s definitely footage from the time it was mission critical, to the time they hauled (Abdulmutallab) to the front," Taylor says. "I told them 100 percent there was a guy filming."


snip

Taylor said he did not see the man's face and does not know whether the FBI has talked with that person.


http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/wisconsin_family_on_flight_253.html



Did the FBI goof up by not thoroughly de-briefing the passengers? According to the Haskells the FBI talked for about 5 minutes with each of the other passengers but for about 15 minutes with them.

I wonder if that is true? 5 minutes doesn't seem like enough time
to thoroughly interview people who have just gone through a
harrowing incident.








http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7366691

[yodoobo]

1. 5 mins seems short but a heavy interview would be a problem too

If I were on such a flight, and the FBI wanted me to sit down and talk for an hour, I would politely refer them to my attorney.

I would gladly spend 5 or 10 mins telling them what I saw, but I would refuse to grilled and effectively re-victimized.

Not to mention the logistics of doing this to 200 people. To throughly grill everyone on the flight would have taken days which would lead to issues of detention and arrest of innocent people.

[snagglepuss]

2. I don't understand that at all. It might be uncomfortable but if there were

accomplices would you not want them identified and possible evidence seized?

Your answer is mind boggling.

[MichaelHarris]

3. not everyone

with a camera is a terror suspect. I'm a photojournalist and it's getting harder and harder to photograph "events" because of some irrational fear of photography. A video like that would sell for thousands.

[snagglepuss]

7. Exactly but why hasn't it been sold? Why has't the guy contacted theFBI?

But what is worse is that the FBI seems unable to imagine that someone might withhold something like this. Was this guy interviewed and allowed to leave before before Taylor and Keepman made their statements? If so that seems like shoddy detective work.

[yodoobo]

10. maybe he doesn't want to be the next Richard Jewel

At this point, if he came forward he could would probably be charged with a crime.

The other explanation of course is that the video doesn't exist and some folks are simply mistaken about what they thought was a video cam in operation.

[snagglepuss]

13. True what happened to Jewel is chilling. But since the FBI will have a good idea

of where he was sitting he'll quickly be identified and his avoidance isn't going to help him at all. Its possible that people mistook what they saw so it will be interesting to see what happens.

[yodoobo]

16. If he has a video he should give it to the FBI

What would really be terrifying is that he really didn't take a video, but passengers say he does.

The FBI doesn't believe him and then crawl up his ass, searching every nook and cranny of his home and life.


I could easily imagine a scenario where he's trying to get his phone out to make a last call home and it be mistaken for filming.


Video or not, whoever this guy is, he has a real problem now.

[MichaelHarris]

25. if he has a video

he should be paid

[LisaL]

18. He might have started to film it after the fact.

Unless he started filming it before the fact, I don't see how that amounts to anything.

[snagglepuss]

20. Patricia Keepman said he was filming for the entire flight. nt

[yodoobo]

27. The entire flight?!

Now THAT is highly unusual.

Some quick video or snap shots is normal.

A flight however, is VERY boring normally. I can't imagine who would want to sit down in their living room and watch an 8 hour flight on video.

[snagglepuss]

28. That is why this story is odd. According to Keepman his was filming

through out the trip. Is she exaggerating? I don't know. Haskell said that the FBI kept everyone on the plane for one hour after it landed. You would think one of these people would approach the guy out of curiousity and asked if he filmed everything and why he was filming and whether he'd try to sell the tape.

[LisaL]

30. Why would somebody film the flight if that somebody believed

the plane was going to be blown up? What is the point? That person would end up dead, and presumably the video camera and the tape would have ended up destroyed.

[yodoobo]

32. Neither story makes sense

A video of an 8 hour flight would be as boring as watching grass grow.

I've flown alot and NEVER seen anyone video an entire flight. That would unnerve me.

But, why try to video a flight that you believed that the camera was going be burned in a fireball and scattered across Detroit?

Neither story passes the smell test.

[yodoobo]

6. Sadly, everyone is a suspect

And the police are not your friend.

The more you talk, the more likely that the FBI will think that -YOU- are a suspect.

Richard Jewel is a good example of this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_jewel

[JDPriestly]

26. The authorities here and in the Netherlands should be able to ID

everyone on that flight. If not, there is a serious problem. The rest of us show our IDs and go through a whole range of checks. Why shouldn't everyone.

This is a weird story because the guy taking the pictures and his camera would have been lost in any fire. I wonder whether maybe the guy with the "camera" was using something else like a cell phone (handy) or I-phone or some other device and was transmitting the pictures as he took them or filmed them. Strange story.

[evan2]

4. Perps like to film their operations. Lots of reasons.

They had hidden cameras filming the JFK assassination ... what we know of today as the "Z" film is a composite.

I'm confident that whole FL253 incident was an inside job and that kid was manipulated/handled. Filming it allows the perps to
gain valuable information about public reaction etc. that can be used to better plan future operations.

[yodoobo]

8. This is true

But if this "operation" was successful, the camera would burned in a fireball and the bits scattered over Detroit.

[struggle4progress]

31. bingo

[LisaL]

19. Wasn't whoever was filming gonna end up dead if "the kid"

was able to blow up the plane?
How do you suppose that "valuable information" was going to be passed on to "better plan future operations?"

[MilesColtrane]

5. I don't know what possible use video footage...

of the attempt would be if the filmer was indeed an acomplice.

Was he going to run out on the wing and step off just before the plane hit the ground like Bugs Bunny?

I suppose if it was meant to fail...

[onenote]

9. omg!! a logical post

Thanks. Its nice to see rational thought around here these days

[snagglepuss]

14. The odd thing is that the guy didn't hand the film over to the FBI. That

arouses suspicion.

[dmr]

11. I read a couple days ago the FBI was looking for the person filming

they said that several passengers saw this.

:shrug:

[LisaL]

22. How hard could it be to find him? If they know where his seat was,

then they should know his name.

[SoCalDem]

12. They should have scanned though all the cell phones for photos

and viewed everyone's videos, if anyone had one in their carry-ons.. Maybe they did.. I hope so.. The airline knows exactly who everyone on that flight was, and surely the FBI does too:)

[snagglepuss]

15. One would hope they would have done so but does a 5 minutes interview

allow enough time for a thororough search of bags and phones, as well as asking questions?

[Gormy Cuss]

17. I hope the FBI doesn't have the legal authority to do so without a warrant.

Of course, there are plenty of people in the country who think any action taken in the name of security is valid.

[winstars]

23. Maybe I am Stupid But

I would like to think that the FBI does have some fucking brains and would get/take any recording or photos that people had shot. Plus, since they do know who was on the flight, it probably occurred to them to re-interview passengers if they thought they should... I have watched Eddie Haskells grandkids on the TeeVee and I am not sure what to think of there story... Yeah, I always play cards at the airport, who doesn't????? Sorry I have been in a million fucking airports and have never seen people playing CARDS anywhere... But maybe their story is 100% I don't know YET.

I think a point was made above about if the plane blows up, Duhh, the 'film crews' "work" would most probably not make it back to headquarters or to youtube. So why would his confederates be documenting it???

I am not sure what to think, I believe he did have a passport; I think but lets see what develops here. I just get the "World Trade Center Building 7 Collapse" bullshit smell about any "others" helping or being alongside the guy who couldn't even blow up his own junk... Thanks Rachel!!!!!!!!

[SoCalDem]

29. They probably DID have a warrant to search the people and the plane

the people on that plane probably were a bit worried for their "security", as you put it..

I don't fly, so it's no worry of mine..

HNY2U

[Gormy Cuss]

33. If they had warrants, don't you think that the FBI would already have this video?

I do fly, and I worry more about the erosion of civil liberties than terrorist bombings. The mindset on this issue is starting to get uncomfortably close to the overreactions after Pearl Harbor. Manazar's a national historic site so it wouldn't take much to convert it back to its WWII use.

HNY2UT

[SoCalDem]

34. The story I saw this afternoon said the FBI did have multiple videos

but of course now the fellow-flyers are having their own 15-minutes of "fame", so they are telling what their interpretation is..

I've heard some saying he was yelling, and others who said he did not make a sound..
Way back when I worked for a bank, we used to have staged robberies, and all the people would be taken aside separately, and asked to tell what happened, and what the robbers said, did and wore.. You would be AMAZED at the differences..

The FBI probably knows a lot more than they are telling,...for obvious reasons...and once things get rolling for court, we will probably find out a lot more..

I just hope that the people screening the would be flyers, arw being a lot more careful....but AQ is not dumb.. they will modify their approach, now that they have us chasing our tails and spending lots of money we don;t have.. their next attempt will probably be something entirely different./

[TexasObserver]

21. Recommend

[B Calm]

24. I wonder who Dick Cheney hired to film it. . .