Joe Klein's Fatuous Fantasy

[autorank]

Joe Klein's Fatuous Fantasy

Michael Collins

Time Magazine's Joe Klein is having an allergic reaction to free speech and public debate. The title of his latest column says it all: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1950575,00.html#ixzz0bDQrTVVd">The Left's Idiocy on Health Reform. It's an ex cathedra pronouncement from a made man at one of the nation's oldest media properties.

What's got Joe so worked up?

Two things. He's upset at the lack of respect that internet based writers show for the mainstream media and Washington insiders. He's also beside himself that people are actually finding fault with the health care reform bill which many bloggers have the nerve to describe as just another government bailout for big business.

In the snarkier precincts of the left-wing blogosphere, mainstream journalists like me are often called villagers. Joe Klein, Dec. 30

That's some pretty nasty name calling isn't it. "Hey villager!" Accusing an entire class of people of idiocy pales by comparison. If I've ever read the term villager, I didn't pay enough attention to remember it. But let's take Joe's word that it's out there in all its rhetorical glory. According to Klein, leftist bloggers see villagers as "regurgitating spin spoon-fed by our sources or conjuring a witless conventional wisdom that has nothing to do with reality as it is lived outside the village." Now there's some idiocy – from Joe's keyboard to our screens. Snip

Klein's essay isn't about health care reform. It's an attack on those in the Democratic Party and others who dare to speak out against what they perceive as the poor performance and neglect of the majority by the president and Congress.

In his closing, Klein says "those of the left blogosphere consider themselves the Democratic base" then quickly points out that the base is really "African Americans, union members, Jews, women and Latinos." Klein's transparent and somewhat ugly divide-and-conquer ploy ignores the important fact that all of those groups are heavily represented on the same "blogosphere" that is providing such troubling criticism of an overly sensitive national government that promises much but delivers just about nothing.

The source of increasing criticism is not an irrational response to the alleged good our leaders offer us. It's the reality of getting nothing while those who created the problems reap untold rewards … every single day without any end in sight.


Full article

[EFerrari]

1. Kick some "villager" butt, Mike!

lol

:applause:

[autorank]

10. I've never liked that term since watching "The Prisoner"

He was trapped in "The Village." Dunno what Klein does with his time, but lord, stop claiming a whole class of people display "idiocy." He's a little sensitive but he probably got the "change" that he "hoped" for;)

[autorank]

53. ALTERNATE LINK - The main link is down

Daily Censored
http://dailycensored.com/2010/01/01/joe-kleins-fatuous-fantasy/

American Politics Journal
http://www.apj.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2757&Itemid=2

[Me.]

2. I Don't Know, I Think That's A Pretty Good Description

"According to Klein, leftist bloggers see villagers as "regurgitating spin spoon-fed by our sources or conjuring a witless conventional wisdom that has nothing to do with reality as it is lived outside the village." Maybe that's why he's really upset.

[autorank]

15. You know

This pairing was really unnecessary on Klein's part: "spin spoon-fed". It's as disjointed as his
logic.

[laughingliberal]

47. Yeah, looks pretty spot on to me nt

[grytpype]

3. Klein is 100% right about this.

[Land Shark]

18. This reply is 100% identical to another thread. Rubber-stamps evidence lack of thoughtfulness.

Don't you think that's true? See the other thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7374937

[Bjorn Against]

28. Two threads is not good enough, check out the response in this third one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7375393#7375396

[Land Shark]

44. "Seldom right, but never in doubt"- a phrase that comes to mind for 3 posts identical n/t

[girl gone mad]

31. Thank you for your stunningly brilliant, thoroughly reasoned riposte.

You've managed to persuade me to your side of the argument through sheer force of insight.

However, should someone come along with a two or three word opinion in contradiction to yours, I might well be forced to change my position yet again. Let's hope that doesn't happen. I really want to believe that what you say about Joke Line is true.

[laughingliberal]

48. Brilliant! +1000 nt

[Starry Messenger]

4. Villagers?

I think of them as palace-dwellers.

[autorank]

6. Right, if Klein meant "Potemkin Villagers" then he might have had a point

But he's just out there trying to get people to STFU. Won't work. We're too unruly;)

[Starry Messenger]

9. lol, nicely played.

I'll remember that one. :)

I love the smell of Klein's desperation. He's a weasel.

[autorank]

14. Double thanks

Especially for "the code" - that's a classic frame. I think we're in Bizarro World right now.

[Black-Eyed Susan]

5. Fantastic article

I just posted this article as well.

I think the author allows for the entire reprint of article with proper attribution.

[autorank]

8. Oh, thanks. Post the link here. I'm the author and you're right on reprinting it

Thanks!

Mike

[Me.]

11. You Wrote It?

:evilgrin:

[autorank]

13. Well

I had to ask you what "fatuous" meant, but yeah O8)

[Me.]

22. Hey Don't Use Those Big Words On Me.

Klein says we're all dummies

[EFerrari]

23. Maybe we should email Joe and tell him we know "maligned"

"snookered" and "disrespected".

[autorank]

24. Good point

How's this: Dear Joe, We want you to know that you scored a partial success. We'd feel maligned to
some degree, if we took you seriously. EOM, The Citizens' Blogosphere

[Me.]

33. We Might Also Let Him Know

There are dictionaries online and we can probably figure out how to use them

[H2O Man]

38. I agree.

It is a fantastic article. And the author is a fantastic human being.

[autorank]

7. Thank you BuzzFlash.Com

BuzzFlash.Com - Great progressive news source

[EFerrari]

12. Nice!

[autorank]

32. It's a great site

They've been a lifeline for years.

[G_j]

16. right on!

well done.
:applause:

[autorank]

59. High praise considering the source. Thanks !!! n/t

[gratuitous]

17. Yes, how dare we?

After all those millions of us who installed these large Democratic majorities with our volunteering, contributions, door-knocking, canvassing, and phone banking, and now we start thinking that we can analyze the results critically and even find them wanting! Takes a LOT of nerve, it does. Thank the Good Lord above Joke Line is here to tut-tut us as we deserve!

[autorank]

19. Joe wants us to "know our role"

He's trying to be a tough guy but he comes off as supercilious.

We have the most important job in the United States of America: citizens.

[Hello_Kitty]

20. Upon re-reading Klein's piece several times, I realized there's something deeply offensive about it

And he's not the only "Villager" doing this. Implicit in the guilt-mongering about the poor people who will be covered is the Welfare Queen myth. It really smacks of racism. They honestly think that the poor and the brown are easily placated by handouts. It's such bullshit. Democratic voters of all stripes want many of the same things: Economic opportunities and safe, livable communities. And we want a social safety net, not a welfare state.

[autorank]

25. Thank you so much for fleshing that out.

At first I thought, why would it take several readings to figure out that it was offensive. But
you said "deeply." I picked up on the superficial racism of presuming that the "base" that he
described wasn't part of the blogosphere. But you went deeper and noted the underlying racism
that takes the base for granted while never really delivering. When blacks and Latinos vote,
they do so intelligently by choosing the lesser of two evils, the party that will do the least
harm and that has in the past been a major help. I'm talking about black people and Latinos of
any economic class. As the bipartisan spirit prevails and there's less benefit available, the
votes/the base drops off, to wit Virginia 2009. But back to your point, you're absolutely right.
This is more disturbing than just a "divide-and-conquer" statement. It reflects both condescension
and paternalism.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. Thanks. Glad you got my meaning.

The thing was overtly insulting from the get-go toward what he perceives as "the Left", but his characterization of the Democratic "base" is what's really offensive.

[autorank]

57. I agree

The Democratic Party and the "base" he represented. I think he'll regret this column for some
time, or not;)

:hi:

[EFerrari]

26. Exactly. All the posters to the net are apparently white men

in Joe's imagination.

[laughingliberal]

49. Of course they are. And no one he describes as 'the base' could possibly be opposed to the HCR bill

Anyone knows the no African Americans, union members, Jews, women, or Latinos would be opposing the bill before us. What are we stupid? :sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

51. I must have missed the memo sent out to both women AND Latinos!

lol

[laughingliberal]

52. Lol! You should write Joe and tell him you were left off the mailing list nt

[maryf]

21. K&R

Great to see this posted all over the place!! Fantastic job, you should have been on the list of greatest OP's... :hi:

[autorank]

73. Thanks!

:hi:

[Moochy]

27. K&R

:kick:

I've seen Joe Klein's "transparent and somewhat ugly divide-and-conquer ploy" in use around here recently. :mad:

[Odin2005]

30. The Villagers are out of touch of reality.

And there are too many village idiots.

[leftstreet]

34. K&R

[RainDog]

35. k&r n/t

[Land Shark]

36. Turns out Joe Klein is famous: If you google this quote of his, you get 283,000 plus hits! Wow!

"I have neither the time nor the legal background to figure out who's right." --Joe Klein (context: FISA)

It seems the above applies to health care as well, but, in any case, in neither issue has Klein been prevented from taking sides, even though in at least one issue he can't figure out who's right. IN the case of health care, he simply fails to understand the Left totally -- not disagreeing so much as at a loss for understanding. But still that - this is the perplexing part - doesn't stop him from copping a very strong attitude.

Link to search on the above quote: http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=%22%22I+have+neither+the+time+nor+legal+background+to+figure+out+who%27s+right%22&btnG=Google+Search (at least this search provides "1 of about 283,000 hits" for the quotation - in quotes.)

[maryf]

37. morning kick, nt.

[mmonk]

39. Thanks for calling him out.

Permission requested to post it on my blog with attribution.

[maryf]

40. See # 11 and any Michael Collins' articles

They post this at the end "This article may be reproduced in whole or in part with attribution of authorship and a link to this article."

[mmonk]

42. Thanks

[lunatica]

41. The writing is on the wall and Joe Klein valiantly fights it to preserve the

corporate media because he thinks it makes him more relevant than the blogs. He thinks he's a forger of public opinion with his insights and his knowledge of the inside. I'm sure the manufacturers of the horse drawn buggy dismissed the Model T in this condescending way too.

[Me.]

43. K

[Captain Hilts]

45. Klein hated the Clintons. Hated healthcare reform. He's a total tool. nt

[bleever]

46. Wow. Apparently, being angry that corporations control the process more than voters

makes us...well, he doesn't really address that. He prefers to practice a little dime store sociology:

The left-wing blogosphere, at its worst, is a claustrophobic hamlet of the well educated, less interested in meaningful debate than the "village" it mocks. (At its best, it is a source of clever and well-informed anti-Establishment commentary.) Indeed, it resembles nothing so much as that other, more populous hamlet, the right-wing Fox News and Limbaugh slum.

Apparently, we are the "elites" who care more, in Klein's view, about getting off clever quips at the expense of people like Joe than we do about the integrity of the democratic process. At our best, we manage to get witty sometimes? Apparently though he's heard tell of leftist internet opposition to the Iraq war, he is unaware of all the work done on every topic of serious importance in the last eight or more years, on subjects like the stolen presidential elections of 2000 and 2004, and the massive lawbreaking on dozens of fronts by the Bush administration.

And he finds a useful rhetorical device for his piece in this bit:

Actually, both the left and right opponents of health care reform are drinking from the same watercooler. Activists on both sides — consulting their focus groups, no doubt — found that the message that most roused their troops was the same: a government takeover of health care.

He refers to the public option, asserting that crazies on both sides fixated on it. We're all the same, see? Except that proponents of the public option want it to ensure real free-market competition, while the opponents often don't even recognize that government run health care plans already exist in the form of Medicare, Tricare, etc.


Joe, you can call me names. It's okay. But don't pretend that we don't really give a damn, and that it's a game for us. It isn't.

[autorank]

72. Hey, he thinks we're idiots!

Damn! Great reply.

Happy New Year! (fellow "idiot")

[Lilith Velkor]

75. Classic projection - it *is* a game to him.

Happy New Year, autorank! :hi:

[autorank]

76. Happy New Year to you Lilith Velkor

:hi: If that's Joe's game then he's down one and fading ... quickly!

[laughingliberal]

50. Klein lost me on HCR in July

He was being interviewed by Ed Shultz and he was already declaring the public option dead and espousing all the good the bill would do without it. He was very insistent that the most important thing about the bill was that it would prevent denials for preexisting conditions. He seemed just devastated that anyone would think of defeating health care reform that was so helpful just because there was no public option. It seemed weirdly personal from where I was sitting.

[maryf]

54. K nt

[autorank]

56. Thnx!

:)

[maryf]

58. You are welcome, consider this a Sunday afternoon kick!

why not? someone might have missed it, and that would be a shame!!

[EFerrari]

55. .

[diva77]

60. Klein's attack on internet based writers is so Rovian - attacking them

based on their strength.

:eyes:

[autorank]

67. Yet

Here's a better link for the article:
http://dailycensored.com/2010/01/01/joe-kleins-fatuous-fantasy/

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Hmm we were just called FELLOW TRAVELLERS

without using those terms... oh how cold war of Joe... I wonder where are our orders coming from these days?

Now I know we hit a nerve with the... political elites.

Oh and Joe... my household is Jewish, Labor, and Latina... how's that for hitting three of your four wickets?

IDIOT!

Oh and happy new year...

[autorank]

66. That's excellent

But wait - How can you be using the internet, according to Joe?

I think we've poked the nerve in a big way.

Here's a better link for the article:
http://dailycensored.com/2010/01/01/joe-kleins-fatuous-fantasy/

[Uncle Joe]

62. Kicked, but too late to recommend.

Thanks for the thread, autorank.:thumbsup:

[autorank]

65. Thanks Joe - here's a good link

The Agonist went down for the first time in memory - Saturday. Here's a good link:
http://dailycensored.com/2010/01/01/joe-kleins-fatuous-fantasy/

Happy New Year!

[mmonk]

70. I noticed that.

[yankee2]

63. don't overlook this...

The problem is that the same power structure which spent our money lavishly on luxurious offices, perks and comforts, paid itself huge salaries and bonuses, then cheated us wherever it could, all the while denying health care to as many who actually needed it as possible, and 40 million Americans who couldn't afford it, has been preserved. Our health care is still in the hands of corporations which place profits WAY ahead of health care!

YES, we DO object to being forced to support private profits in our quest for affordable, quality health care, when we, as a nation, are perfectly capable of providing our own, via a centralized single-payer system. And WHAT is going to drive costs down and keep them down, while keeping quality high? Every other nation succeeds in this at half the price. Will we? I have very serious doubts!

And YES, we do object simply to being FORCED to buy a commercial product! What's next? Will we be forced to buy Chevys and McDonald's hamburgers, just to support corporate profits? THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT HERE WITH HEALTH CARE! I know its definition is fuzzy, but when our government conspires with business to serve corporate profit interests, ahead of those of other Americans, and indeed wholly at citizen's expense, THAT is an essential form of FASCISM.

Joe, I want to believe in Pres. Obama, but my trust is seriously tested. WHO has our president and our Congress been talking to these last 11 months? If I'm not mistaken, he (and THEY) have met with hundreds if not thousands of medical and health care executives and lobbyists, but to my knowledge not a single average American with health care issues! I think that tells us a LOT about what and whose thoughts and concerns are on his mind, and thus, who he really represents.

It really LOOKS like the Congress, and perhaps even Mr. Obama himself, have been subject to intense lobbying pressure from the corporate side, while being exposed to very little influence from the citizen side. Corporations and citizens have different and often conflicting interests. With corporate concerns freshest and foremost in his mind, and those of ordinary Americans scarcely even heard, who is Mr. Obama (and Congress) responding to?

It certainly LOOKS from the result that the president and Congress represent the corporations well ahead of the people. It appears that the companies will get some 30-40 million additional customers, all at full price, legally enforced by the state! Why force Americans to buy a commercial product, at full corporate asking prices, when we could certainly do a much better job for ourselves at much lower cost? To preserve a HUGE corporate cash cow?

It was pretty clear that a majority of Americans wanted (and want) an efficient, powerful, economical and effective single-payer system. If America is truly a democracy, why are the interests of 300 million Americans being subjugated to the private profit interests of a handful of corporations?

Fascism and Corporatism aside, the acid test will be whether, under this so-called reform, our health care costs are reduced to a level as low as those of Canadians and Europeans, while maintaining the same or better quality of service. If our program performs as well as theirs, this may be a successful program; if not, it is an abject failure, compared with what it could and should have been.

Sure, we get some helpful table scraps with these bills, but the feast went to private special interests, at EVERY AMERICAN'S EXPENSE.

[autorank]

64. Worth attending to -- welcome to DU!!! n/t

[yankee2]

68. Thank you!

Thanks! I do my best. I must say, I am very much down on what we erroneously claim to be "democracy" in this country (the US), and am particularly amazed by the much too long-running, irrational, absurd and unjust state of and debate about the drug laws (with particular reference to MJ) and justice in the US. I'll be around.

[autorank]

69. Democracy

We're dominated by big money interests that are pervasive. Even if someone qualified, truly, jumped over the big money hurdle, they'd have their votes counted by a private vendor started by a right wing extremist; a vendor that hides the real vote count from the public. Damning yet legal.

As for MJ, why is it illegal? What are the interests behind that? And why is such a beneficial product like hemp, which can be produced with no psychoactdive qualities, barred from production?

I'll see you around, I'm sure.

[autorank]

71. kick

:kick:

[myrna minx]

74. Thanks for kicking. I missed this great article over the weekend.

:hi:

[Generator]

77. Thou doth protest too much

Again! It's the bloggers, the lefties, and Howard Dean ruining America. If only we had so much power. (next time maybe we will- ha ha!) But they aren't dumb. They know they are missing the truth-otherwise why the endless endless mention of how meaningless we are?

Yep-I guess no one on DU is black, latino or a woman. No union members here. I salute you basement dwellers.

MOM! get me a sandwich.

[Generator]

78. I am adding this apparently people like Klein

still think it's 1995 or something. Like dude, even Grandma ia on the net now. Does he seriously think the Democratic base on line is 20 something white guys? What the fuck is this stereotype?

It's Twenty-ten! Joel, wake up and smell the future. Love, a 47 year old union member suburban mom.

[Lilith Velkor]

79. Folks like him would have a meltdown if they knew how many poor people are on the 'net