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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 07:23 AM
Original message
Irish atheists challenge blasphemy law


An atheist group in the Irish Republic has defied a new blasphemy law by publishing a series of anti-religious quotations on its website.

Atheist Ireland says it will fight any action taken against it in court.

The quotations include the words of writers such as Mark Twain and Salman Rushdie, but also Jesus Christ, the Prophet Muhammad and Pope Benedict XVI.

The new law makes blasphemy a crime punishable by a fine of up to 25,000 euros (£22,000; $35,000).

The government says it is needed because the republic's 1937 constitution only gives Christians legal protection of their beliefs.

The new law was passed in July 2009 but came into force on 1 January.

Atheist Ireland responded by publishing 25 quotes it considers anti-religious on its website.

<snip>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8437460.stm
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. What's their Constitution like?
Any chance of this law's being upheld?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Article 44:
1. The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion.

2. 1° Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen.

2° The State guarantees not to endow any religion.

3° The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.

4° Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school.

5° Every religious denomination shall have the right to manage its own affairs, own, acquire and administer property, movable and immovable, and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes.

6° The property of any religious denomination or any educational institution shall not be diverted save for necessary works of public utility and on payment of compensation.

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Youth_Zone/About_the_Constitution,_Flag,_Anthem_Harp/Constitution_of_Ireland_Eng_Nov2004.htm
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. yikes
still, I suppose you could interpret that to allow for freedom from religion.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Still stuck in the 19th Century
And still under too much power by the church. The new blasphemy law doesn't surprise me and I can't see it being overturned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/09/3-women-challenge-irish-a_n_386302.html

3 Women Challenge Irish Abortion Ban In European Court Of Human Rights
SHAWN POGATCHNIK | 12/ 9/09 12:12 P

DUBLIN — Three women filed a lawsuit in a European court against Ireland's abortion ban Wednesday, claiming the government violates the human rights of pregnant women by forcing them to travel abroad for abortions and denying them appropriate medical care at home.

The three women took the case to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, France. A verdict is expected next year.

If they win, the women could force Ireland – one of only a handful of European countries that still outlaws abortion – to liberalize a system that inspires more than 7,000 women annually to travel to other European countries, chiefly England, for abortions.

But the Irish government fielded a high-powered legal team of constitutional lawyers and Attorney General Paul Gallagher to defend its health policies. They rejected the women's central claim that they couldn't receive proper medical care in Ireland before or following abortions abroad...

MORE
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. That should be an OP by itself. If it hasn't already been posted. Thanks for posting. nt
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. What if you say you don't believe in leprechauns?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh, dear!
My boys are visiting the Old Sod now. Reading this, I have an image of them in a pub, saying, "Now this is a good idea!" and deciding to make it an international case.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. I would say the most blasphemous thing that has come out of Ireland
Was the recent revelations of horrific abuse by the Catholic Church against children there.

I honestly can't think of anything worse you could say about religion than it countenanced abuse of children.

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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Solidarity with ALL Atheists. The worlds fastest growing minority. knr nt
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. How long before muslim imams decide that it is a sacrilege committed by infidels?
Edited on Sat Jan-02-10 11:39 AM by ProgressiveProfessor
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liberal_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is a new law? I would expect a law like this to have been created 500 yrs ago
but a new law stating that only Christian beliefs are protected under law? I want to live in the UK someday but I guess Ireland will not be one of the places I consider living.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-02-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. This may involve peculiarities of Irish politics in unexpected ways:
Edited on Sat Jan-02-10 03:08 PM by struggle4progress
The Irish laws were originally based on the English law. The last imprisonment in the UK for blasphemy was John Gott in 1921; the last blasphemy conviction in the UK was in 1977; and the UK blasphemy law was finally abolished in 2008

There seems to have been no successful prosecution for blasphemy in Ireland within living memory; however, blasphemy is explicitly illegal under the 1937 constitution, though an unsuccessful prosecution in 1999 produced a Supreme Court decision indicating no one knew "of what the offence of blasphemy consists." The expected route of blasphemy law enforcement was the 1961 defamation law, which allowed for up to seven years imprisonment. With Parliament's abolition of blasphemy laws in 2008, the Irish set out to consider how to abolish their own: the point of view that won was, not to amend the constitution, but to repeal the prison sentences of the 1961 defamation law and redraw the law with such explicit exemptions as would make successful prosecution very difficult

In view of the context, I predict that this action by Atheist Ireland will provoke no prosecutorial response

The Irish Times - Wednesday, July 22, 2009
Blasphemy provisions clash with Constitution
... The common law historically punished blasphemy against Christianity as one aspect of the crime of libel. In a successful prosecution against Gay News magazine in 1977, the English courts confirmed the continuing existence of the crime. In an unsuccessful attempt to begin proceedings against Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses in 1991, they held that it did not protect Islam. Most recently, in another unsuccessful attempt to commence a prosecution against Jerry Springer - The Opera in 2007, they held that the modern justification for the crime lies in the risk of public disorder. The European Court of Human Rights has held that, although blasphemy can infringe the right to freedom of expression, it can be justified, provided that there is a good reason for the infringement. In the Jerry Springer case, the court held that this reason must be the risk of public disorder, and not the mere fact of insulting religious beliefs, however deeply held. The blasphemy provisions of the Defamation Bill make it an offence to cause outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of a religion by intentionally publishing material that grossly abuses or insults matters held sacred by their religion. This is actually quite narrowly drawn, and there is a further saver for publications of genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value. Moreover, the maximum €25,000 fine is relatively light. It is therefore neither a trap for the unwary, nor a charter for religious cranks, nor even a check upon valuable public discourse. Nevertheless, the offence is still of dubious constitutionality ... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0722/1224251063583.html


The Irish Times - Friday, May 1, 2009
Position of blasphemy in our Constitution cannot be ignored
< DERMOT AHERN>
... THE 1961 Defamation Act provides that a person can be both fined and imprisoned for a maximum of seven years for the crime of blasphemous libel. The Government is moving to reform that Act, while respecting our Constitution, which requires that blasphemy must be punishable by law. My intention is to remove the possibility of prison sentences and private prosecutions for blasphemy, currently provided for in Irish law. The only credible alternative to this move is a blasphemy referendum which I consider, in the current circumstances, a costly and unwarranted diversion ... Among my proposed amendments was a proposal in regard to the treatment of the issue of blasphemy in our law. It is wrong to state that we have no law in this area and that I am creating a new offence. Currently, section 13 of the 1961 Defamation Act provides for sanctions, both monetary and prison, where a person might be convicted of publishing a blasphemous libel. That section will be repealed, along with that whole Act by the new legislation ... I have taken the opportunity of ensuring that private prosecutions for blasphemy can no longer be brought by ensuring it is not a summary offence and that all prosecutions have to be brought by the independent prosecutor, the DPP. I have also removed the punishment of imprisonment and instead imposed a fine. The Labour Party in its proposed suggestion in regard to my amendment does not propose deletion of it, but rather to make a proposal as to the penalty involved ... The revised provision in regard to blasphemy requires at least three elements to be present: that the material be grossly abusive or insulting in matters held sacred by a religion; that it must actually cause outrage among a substantial number of adherents of that religion; and, crucially, that there be an intent to cause such outrage. Such intent was not previously required ... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0501/1224245748066.html


... In 1855, the burning of a Bible led to the last blasphemy prosecution in Ireland before the founding of the Free State. Prosecutions for blasphemy in Ireland effectively ceased when the Church of Ireland was disestablished in 1869 ... http://blasphemy.ie/history-of-irish-blasphemy-law/


... The .. Irish Constitution .. contains provisions which state that "the publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent material is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law" – but there is no actual law against blasphemy. On the single occasion that an attempt was made to prosecute a satirical Irish newspaper under this provision - Corway v Independent Newspapers, in 1999 - the Supreme Court eventually concluded that it was not possible to say "of what the offence of blasphemy consists". For these reasons, the Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution, last year recommended that the Constitution be amended to remove all references to sedition and blasphemy, and redrafted to bring it into line of article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, providing a positive right to freedom of expression ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/ireland_blashpemy/


Obituary: Denis Lemon
PETER BURTON
Saturday, 23 July 1994
Denis Edward Lemon, newspaper editor and restaurateur: born Bradford-on-Avon 11 August 1945; Editor, Gay News 1972-82; died Exmouth 21 July 1994.
AFTER his trial in 1977 at the Old Bailey on a charge of blasphemous libel, Denis Lemon became something of an international celebrity: he was the first man to be convicted in Britain on such a charge in more than 50 years ... He published Kirkup's poem in 1976 because he thought 'the message and intention of the poem was to celebrate the absolute universality of God's love', although he admitted it was 'probably not a great work of literature'. Not everyone viewed the poem in the same light as Lemon and an outraged reader dispatched a copy to Mary Whitehouse who instigated a prosecution for blasphemous libel. Judge Alan King- Hamilton disallowed expert testimony on the literary, sociological or theological qualities of the poem - Margaret Drabble and Bernard Levin were allowed to appear as character witnesses on Lemon's part. John Mortimer appeared for the defence, but Gay News Ltd and Denis Lemon were found guilty - Lemon being fined pounds 500 and sentenced to nine months' imprisonment, suspended for 18 months and subsequently quashed by the Court of Appeal ... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-denis-lemon-1415565.html


The gay poem that broke blasphemy laws
By Staff Writer, PinkNews.co.uk • January 10, 2008 - 12:50
... Mary Whitehouse, founder of the National Viewers and Listeners Association, (NVLA) announced her intention to sue in December 1976 after she read the poem entitled The Love That Dares To Speak Its Name by James Kirkup, published in Gay News. Denis Lemon was sentenced to nine months suspended imprisonment and fined £500 ... An appeal against the conviction was rejected by the House of Lords. It still 'illegal' to publish the poem in the UK ... http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-6519.html


... In 2002, a public reading of the poem, on the steps of St. Martin-in-the-Fields church in Trafalgar Square, failed to lead to any prosecution ... http://travors.com/post/311346765/atheist-ireland-publishes-25-blasphemous-quotes



Britain's House of Lords abolishes blasphemy laws
By Kim Murphy
Los Angeles Times / March 6, 2008
LONDON - A funny thing happened last November when Britain launched a righteous protest over the arrest in Sudan of a British school teacher who was accused of insulting religion by naming a class teddy bear Mohammed. The Sudanese ambassador was summoned; Prime Minister Gordon Brown issued a protest. It didn't take long, though, for someone to point out that Downing Street was standing on diplomatic quicksand: Britain itself has a law making blasphemy a crime. Thus began a period of collective soul-searching on free speech and secularism, traditional values and the church that anoints Britain's queen. It culminated yesterday in a 148-87 vote in the House of Lords to abolish the laws on blasphemy after a wrenching, two-hour debate ... http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2008/03/06/britains_house_of_lords_abolishes_blasphemy_laws/

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-03-10 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. (xpost from later GD thread) Link to the text of the 2009 Defamation Act:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0031/index.html

At issue is Section 36:

(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €25,000.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a person publishes or utters blasphemous matter if —
(a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion, and
(b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.
(3) It shall be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this section for the defendant to prove that a reasonable person would find genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value in the matter to which the offence relates.
(4) In this section “ religion ” does not include an organisation or cult —
(a) the principal object of which is the making of profit, or
(b) that employs oppressive psychological manipulation —
(i) of its followers, or
(ii) for the purpose of gaining new followers.


So for the purposes of successful prosecution, one must deliberately set out to outrage a large number of people, one must succeed in outraging those people, and one must do so without introducing any genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value
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