The right wing- virtually ALL of the right wing- HATES "Big Government"

[cali]

They want to dismantle our woefully inadequate safety net. They favor deregulation. They're home to bigots and racists of all stripes. And sorry, when I peruse right wing sites I see very little rage against corporatism. The rage is directed toward "big government".

Anyone who thinks an effective alliance can be made with these people to take down corporatism is living a delusion.

[rfranklin]

1. The key would be to convince them that corporations are the government...

Of course, without Fox News promoting the message that will never happen.

[cali]

2. Most of them are big rah rah supporters of the private sector

it's absurd to think they're anti-corporate.

[krispos42]

32. If corporations are governing, they are the de facto government , yes?

Hmmm... I never thought about that in quite that way before.


Down with big government! Break the corporations that govern!

[SpiralHawk]

3. But they remained mute while their beloved Commander AWOL Bush

& Dickie 'Five-Military-Deferments' Cheney expanded and expanded Big Government and its Big Fat Frikkin Nose, and their Republicon cronies Borrowed & Spent the American government and economy into the crapper for decades to come. When Bush & Cheney & corporate cronies were running the show and squatting their ugly diaper-clad ass on America's freedoms, the right wing was in ecstasy.

But now? Now they whine... Typical right-wing hypocrisy. Ptoooey on the Latter Day Pharisees they are.

[Enthusiast]

29. I love the term

"Latter Day Pharisees". That is what they are!

[baldguy]

4. And they define "Big Government" as anything that actually helps people

A multi-billion dollar stimulus package that employs thousands of people & helps rebuild our infrastructure is "Big Government", but a multi-billion dollar kick-back to Wall Street, or to a defense contractor isn't.

[clear eye]

5. The sort of "big gov't" that sees its purpose as taking from

struggling middle and working class people to give to the wealthy investor class, aka fascism, is hateful. It doesn't resemble traditional Democratic Party policies in the least, and destroys the economy.

When I say that, I hope it's understood that this position is light years away from endorsing the Republicans or their philosophy of opposing the legitimate activities of gov't as a countervailing force to the destructive activities of the mega-corporations.

Anyone from the left who is allying w/ members of the Republican Party (does not include me) must be doing so out of desperation, and certainly not w/ the intention of returning them to power.

[Ken Burch]

6. Well, they hate the parts of Big Government that don't kill people

The parts that do, they pretty much like.

[Orsino]

7. They love their big-government military...

...and get tears in their eyes as it rolls over smaller militaries.

They're socialists, all right. Just mean ones.

[Odin2005]

60. Lets call them NATIONAL socialists...

:evilgrin:

[mwb970]

8. The far right is America's true enemy.

During the Revolution, conservatives (the Tories) sided with the king and did not want America to be formed. During the Civil War, conservatives (the Confederacy) wanted to split America in two so that they could continue to enslave black people. During the civil rights movement, conservatives blocked the doorways of schools to prevent integration.

Conservatives fought against Social Security, Medicare (which they now pretend to be "protecting"), and Medicaid. Conservatives fought against child-labor laws. They fought the 40-hour work week, mandatory vacation time, and workplace safety standards.

Today, conservatives are fighting universal health care for all citizens (like every other civilized country has). Can you see a pattern here? For hundreds of years, conservatives have opposed every single thing that would make life better for the American people. They are, and always have been, the principle enemy of American greatness and progress.

The fact that today's conservatives are so mean-spirited, illiterate, and blindly ignorant only makes them even more galling to real Americans.

[Hannah Bell]

9. sure, like social security. *all* the right wing hates it. except those who get it, they love it.

no, your one dimensional picture isn't reality. it's just the same old boogeyman shit that keeps people focused on elections to the exclusion of real politics.

[cali]

11. the right supported privatizing social security, but it's a riot seeing

you, miss wsw, claiming that I present a one dimensional picture and practice boogeyman politics. No one, and I do mean no one practices one dimensional boogeyman politics like you. stunning display of cogdis, my dear.

[Jamastiene]

12. Right now, the left is privatizing all medicine.

Both parties have been pushing for privatization AND deregulation in many areas of government for quite a while now. Our elected leaders, on BOTH sides of the aisle, have being saying one thing and doing another for years now. That still doesn't mean it is right.

[Hannah Bell]

19. and public schools.

[Enthusiast]

36. "The left" ?

Call it the left if you want but it is not "the left". It might be both parties and it might include Democrats but these Democrats are hardly "left".

[Jamastiene]

44. True.

I stand corrected. It is the Democratic Party, not the left. We've just been told we are "the left" so long, it is hard to imagine what is happening right now with this definite schism that seem to have opened.

[Hannah Bell]

13. no, miss cali, the rank & file "right" (as in republican voters) generally support SS.

the leadership doesn't, but the rank & file do.

which explains the phenomenon of teabaggers fearful obama will take away their medicare!


you do portray a one dimensional picture when you claim all those on the right are x, y, z.

nice display of codpieces, my deer.

[cali]

16. bulllpucky. There was broad support for privatizing ss among rank and file repubs.

[Hannah Bell]

18. bullpucky yourself. not among those who have it, my deer. as i said.

[cali]

20. yes, bambi darling, among those who have it. there was broad support

for privatizing ss among rank and file dems, my "deer".

[leftstreet]

45. +1

[Rectangle]

10. In my arguments with RW's, I argue that their teabagger anger is misplaced.

It should be focused on giant corporate monopolies that bribe, buy off, and essentially control parts of the Democratic party and all, ALL of the Republican party.
It is Fascism-stright-up!
It is the definition of Fascism!
(From Wikipedia)
"Fascism, , is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system,<5> and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum."

My arguments with Rw's are somewhat frustrating, because it has been drummed into them ad nauseum, that government is BAD and corporations (big and small) are GOOD!! Monopolies are OK, (i.e. cut the
regulations-gov't stay out!) Corporations(Monopolies), are always PATRIOTIC, and if you argue otherwise-you are UNPATRIOTIC!
It is a Religious Cult-like ideology to them-and I can't get past these mental walls they put up.
Anybody else have better luck arguing against this ideology?

Rectangle

[JoeyT]

14. It depends on the person.

The ones that are genuinely concerned, you can shift without a whole lot of effort.
The ones that are racist, crazy, stupid or all three aren't going to budge no matter how many facts you beat them with.

[dhpgetsit]

23. When they abandon rational arguments and resort to demagoguery

(as they always will) there is no point in debating them. Declare victory and move on.

[Jamastiene]

33. The Obama Beer Summit.

Do that.

[rhett o rick]

37. They are lazy, ignorant bullies and want to solve problems the easiest way. Blame someone

especially a minority.

[KharmaTrain]

15. They Don't Want YOU To Have Government...

I had an interesting go around with a totally naive and ignorant right winger the other day. She claims she's a Democrat and then went on to say how our country is over-taxed...right out of the Grover Norquist (hear that Jane Hamsher??) playbook. I asked her if we lower taxes, would she be willing to pay for the police every time she picked up the phone or the fire department before they put a fire out...she says "they won't do that"...then I asked her why so many states are having such big fiscal problems. Totally clueless.

Yep, the want to squeeze government "down a bathtub" except when it gore's their ass...such as military or "national security". They also gladly take the SSI and Medicare then yell "socialism". All talking points with little thought behind it.

That said...I'm one that doesn't believe government is the total answer. One reason why I was and am leery of single payer as left alone, government can become a monster and needs competition from the private sector just as much as the insurance companies would be held a lot more accountable if there was government competition.

Remember, being selfish and ignorant are trademarks of being a rushpublican...spew the talking points with little idea of what you're saying.

[Echo In Light]

17. They're only against "big" govt in the sense of helping the less fortunate

... while being 110% in favor of a huge, bureaucratic police $tate apparatus.

Of course, many who support this are seemingly mired within cognitive dissonance, actively supporting ideologies and subsequent policies that work against theirs and humanity's best interests. That's authoritarianism for you.

[timtom]

21. And it can never be stated enough,

these people are f***ing IDIOTS! MORONS!

Neither the truth nor anything approaching critical thinking skills are within their grasp!

[Echo In Light]

22. Emotion, not intelligence, shapes early perceptions, & RWers base views on those they hate

And it sticks well since that type of class-ism is conducive to the corporate world mentality, which acts as a reinforcement for the RW/conservative belief system; it's not about prejudice, or being cold hearted and greedy, it's simply, in Orwellian terms, good Busine$$ Sense. That's how poor cons can support policy that works against themselves, and wealthy cons can support policy contrary to the common good, b/c it's rooted in the emotional zeal that fuels and grounds much of their worldview ... which is to say, it's not so much that RWers support something, but are against something else (those not aligned w/conservative stereotypes and traditions) that in turn carries the surface trappings of supporting a policy.

[rucky]

24. We need to frame it as "corporate welfare"

and we may be able to pull a few to the light. But as Allentown Jake said, siding with Dick Army will let them control the message. Unless we can get some right libertarians on board with the "corporate welfare" (which it is). That will play with the Ron Paul types.

[XanaDUer]

25. Recommended

and they fail to see it.

[StarfarerBill]

26. Only partially true.

They do indeed favor the dismantling of social infrastructure, but are of course in lust with the idea of larger internal and external security forces as well as any tax cut and/or program that will put large amounts of taxpayer dollars in their masters' pockets.

I do agree that it's exceedingly unlikely that a coalition of progressives and conservatives against corporatism is even possible, much less will be effective.

[Enthusiast]

27. Nah. They only believe

people should work for a "living". "Work to the sweat of your brow."



















:hide: :sarcasm:

[Joe Chi Minh]

28. No, they don't. They just insist it should be PRIVATISED. Cronyism. Jobs,

sinecures and non-jobs for the boys.

[n2doc]

30. They love big government

So long as the $$$ (taxed from the poor and borrowed from China) goes into THEIR pockets and it's power is used to subjugate the lower 99%. Bushco proved this.

[sendero]

31. Lots of nominally Republican voters..

... are going to be WISHING for some Socialism in the coming years.

You are only against big government when you are sure you are getting no benefit from it.

[Jamastiene]

35. I hope you are right. n/t

[JoeyT]

In a sense they're anti big government

They're all too happy to take any government aid they can get (Agriculture bills? Public works?) they just get really really pissy when it's time for the government to collect that money for redistributing.
Handouts are evil. Unless they're handing it to me. Then they're good. Until I have to pay taxes. Then they're bad again.

[rhett o rick]

34. They are right wing authoritarians and cant be convinced.

They are willfully ignorant bullies.

[Enthusiast]

38. Rated accurate,

by me.

[backscatter712]

41. Absolutely correct.

Their capacity for rational thought has been short-circuited by their authority-figure fetish...

[rhett o rick]

42. Bob Altemeyer calls them "Right Wing Authoritarians" in his book

"The Authoritarians". They are cowards and bullies.

[Enthusiast]

39. Contrary to posts on down the line

you are completely correct. Actually you give these people too much credit.

Example: Poppy Bush, considered moderate by right wing standards, said that Atheists should not be American citizens. Just one example. These people are the enemy of the nation.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

40. no they don't

they only hate gov't that regulates corporate malfeasance and the social responsibility end of gov't.

They just think they hate big gov't because that's what the corporate-written propaganda for dummies catapults, in terms of economic protections. And the smokescreening and scapegoating of all "others not like us" is handled perfectly by the church, particularly the pro-capitalist, evangelical christofascist incarnation.



As for big gov't that regulates (i.e. punishes and protects them from) "Those People", the ones they're scared of, Yay! They love that kind of big gov't.

Punish brown people,
Punish poor people,
Punish workers,
Punish gays,
Punish unsubmissive, non-brood-hen-under-proper-husbandly-supervision women,
Punish sick people,
Punish elderly people,
Punish rabble rousers,
Punish "heathens",

They don't even see how they hurt themselves, the results of their beloved conservative "values"! But mental disconnect is a wondrous thing.

[SlingBlade]

43. Mexico is a Consevative Blueprint for the U.S.A

No middle class. Just the ubber rich and the ubber poor

[BlancheSplanchnik]

64. not good

:(



by the way, you might want to know, that would be "über" yeah I know, I'm a grammar nazi...

[lastliberalintexas]

68. The irony of a Grammar Nazi correcting the spelling of uber!

:)

[BlancheSplanchnik]

70. O. M. G.

:spray:

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA, man, you got me good!! :rofl:

Prosit!! :toast:

(no, I don't know German, only wish I did. Tried to teach myself a few years ago, but you really need people wo use it with, or take a course.)

[laughingliberal]

46. I have some conservative friends & acquaintances who who are lifelong Republicans

who are very angry with the banksters and Wall Street CEO's. Can't speak for the websites you peruse but I'm meeting some real life conservatives who aren't happy with this corporate welfare crap. Now, if we could get our leaders to, actually, do something about it, we would have some converts. Problem is, at the moment, our team isn't doing much to curb corporate abuse, either.

Guess you weren't through arguing when the previous thread on this was locked?

[leftstreet]

47. These corporate bailouts are refocusing traditional 'conservatives'

You make a good point and I'm experiencing the same thing. Both political parties are having a hard time keeping their rank and file from a massive, collective WTF moment.

No wonder the Talking Point Message Discipline is in full ATTACK TEABAGGER mode.

[laughingliberal]

54. I think we miss the mark when we assume all 'conservatives' are Foxwashed syncophants

Many people who identify themselves as conservatives, at least in my age group, are people who became Republicans back in the 70's. They have been low information voters who are just now waking up to the fact that their party is no longer the party they joined 30 years ago. They are pissed and I have heard several lately state they believe in free markets but that this is not free markets. Hell, a lot of them are aware of the tax cuts for business with which they somewhat agreed but they had no idea how far the deregulation went in the last 20 years. Our side can be just as guilty of painting with a broad brush as the right wing who paints all Democrats as 'liberal extremists.'

edited spelling error

[leftstreet]

48. BS. unRec

[Dappleganger]

49. Actually, they LOVE Big Government as long as it supports their WARS.

This farce that RW'ers are anti-Big Government is a joke!

[tucsonlib]

50. Send Them This:

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/guest-opinion/Content?oid=1666625

[Cleita]

51. Reagan preached this.

Why are you surprised?

[spanone]

52. if they hate big gov't so much let's take their disability checks, medicare & social security checks

they wouldn't want to take money from BIG government, now would they???

[B Calm]

53. Then why does government always grow under republican rule?

[Cleita]

57. Because they are liars.

It's the same reason fiscal responsibility disappears during Republican governance. They lie about reigning in tax and spend government and then do it themselves in a way Democrats never have.

[sakabatou]

55. They only hate big government when a Dem is the president

[girl gone mad]

56. The extreme left/right dichotomy hasn't always existed in America..

and it's not a bad idea to try to move away from it where possible.

[Capn Sunshine]

58. and yet, during the RIGHT WING TAKEOVER OF THE 00'S

Government grew to its largest size ever, reversing a trend created by President Clinton of shrinking government.

They say they hate it because they love it so.

[Odin2005]

59. They only hate "big government" when it's used to help the poor.

When it's used to kill people and spy in people's bedrooms they are totally OK with it.

[Bjorn Against]

61. I think they support big government, they just want to hand government power to corporate interests

"Small government conservatives" are largely a myth, there are a few libertarians out there that fit the description but the vast majority of the right-wing wants a very large and intrusive government. Sure they may want to cut government involvement in schools, heath care, transportation, housing, and programs that help ordinary citizens but they want to greatly expand government in other areas.

They want to keep expanding the military and build bases around the world, they want government to regulate a woman's body, they want to amend the Constitution to ensure the government will always be able to deny others the right to marry, they support illegal warrantless wiretapping, they supported the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, they want to end the separation of church and state to ensure that churches have more power in shaping government policy, they support doing away with basic human rights laws which protect people from torture, and they support the expansion of the prison system. They want to greatly expand government beyond American borders as well, as you can see with the expansion of US power to places Iraq. The right-wing wants big government, they simply want the government to benefit the powerful interests rather than the people.

[CANDO]

62. Someone pull Thom Hartmann back from the edge!

He's said over and over that we should try to build a bridge with the Teabaggers. And I can't help wonder what he's seeing that I'm not. He's a smart guy, but there is no bridging anything with insane people. They are not in the least bit attacking the corporate world. In fact, it is the corporate Pied Piper to which they are dancing merrily along. Stop the insane talk, Thom Hartmann!

[showpan]

63. He probably sees the same things

I see. It's not that they are siding with the corporations, they are siding with anyone who speaks out against what is happening. While it's mostly correct in the assumption that it's only since Obama has taken office, most of the ones who I have talked to agree it's the corporations who are responsible and something needs to be done. They can be steered in the right direction, that's the easy part. The hard part is admitting that the Democratic party has been taken over too. The ones here who blindly support them sound as if they read the same playbook as the right wingnuts, maybe they are the same.

[CANDO]

66. Overwhelming #'s here don't blindly support the Democratic Party.

We just don't know how to go about purging the corporatists. What really makes me nervous about bridging with the Teabaggers is the fact they are the same insane "base" types who flocked to McCain rallies just to catch a glimpse of Palin. How do you get them to drop all the rest of their theo-political agenda? When I see and hear them whole heartedly damning vampire capitalism, then I'll lend a hand in bridge building.

[laughingliberal]

71. I gotta say Thom Hartmann is one of the sanest people I listen to

There are some areas where bridges can be built. Perhaps not with rabid, foxwashed, right wingers but with every day, average conservatives. Nothing to lose by trying. Hell, it's not like right wing thought is contagious. If your reach out to a conservative acquaintance in a spirit of mutual respect it just might build a bridge. If not, what have you lost?

[CANDO]

73. I've tried it with my own mother and a brother.

It doesn't work! These people are COMMITTED MOVEMENT CONSERVATIVES. I speak of the Teabaggers and my family members. You simply cannot do a la-carte politics with movements. You get the entire package. The point people miss about the Teabaggers is that they are nobody new to this thing called politics. They are the conservative base who've decided to shape-shift in order to try and gain the upper hand once again.

[PufPuf23]

65. Make them realize that Big Military is Big Government

and more often than not, counter productive -- my fear is that the USA Big Military is past of point of no return on the world stage and this fear or fact guides policy.

Reduction in military means more international friends and more social democracy in the USA (as most of the modern industrial countries have evolved).

Opportunity plus strong social safety net is our best chance for a good future.

Military is the most damaging and utilizing agent in environmental damage and social misunderstanding.

[Echo In Light]

72. +1

[lastliberalintexas]

67. You're wrong, they don't hate Big Government

They hate Big Government with a liberal bent, but they have no problems with a supercharged military/Pentagon, police gone wild or the government intruding into the sexual lives of people (whether for birth control, abortion, same sex or different kinds of sex). If nothing else, the last 9 years should have shown you that.

You've just bought what the RNC marketing machine sells. Congrats.

[applegrove]

69. The GOPers and wingnuts are all about lowering taxes and letting the rich

get richer. Most of them don't know that that is all they stand for. They are being used as they are whipped into a gay-hating mob.