C-SPAN: Si . . . Secrecy: No !! . . . . . . . . . Healthcare-for-All: Si . . . Campaign Lies: No !!

[Faryn Balyncd]

You're right, Nancy. There certainly WERE "a number of things he was for on the campaign trail":

"....We'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies....."

- - - Barack Obama, August 21, 2008, Chester, Pennsylvania

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7397868&mesg_id=7398180

Somebody's got to do it, Nancy. And YOU CAN stand down those Senate snakes!

We all know Rahm & Harry won't like it one bit, but the AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE BEHIND YOU.

Bring in Brian Lamb & the C-SPAN cameras, and then stuff that Public Option down Harry's throat.

When you succeed you will have literally saved the Democratic Party.

And Americans will thank you!


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=9481123

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7397868&mesg_id=7397868








:kick:

[Faryn Balyncd]

1. The "Un-rec" Patrol struck in SEVEN SECONDS!!!! Is that a record, or what ?!?!?!?

[tabatha]

2. So, tell me how Obama has voted in the House and Senate?

This is SO STUPID to blame it on Obama!

Much like the right-wingers - blame everything on everyone but the right people.

What a lot of garbage logic.

[Luminous Animal]

3. Obama, as President, negotiated behind closed doors.

and on Aug. 21, 2008, at a town hall in Chester, Va.:

"People say, 'Well, you have this great health care plan, but how are you going to pass it? You know, it failed in '93. And what I've said is, I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies — they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."

[tabatha]

11. So, Obama is able to overcome the part of NO.

Is he a mind manipulator.

He tried, but money is more powerful.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chulanowa]

9. Don't waste your breath

They're just pissed that Palin isn't in charge.

[sabrina 1]

14. Yes, thanks for the talking point, but did Obama

break a promise or promises, as Nancy Pelosi now admits, or not? Or do you think if you point 'over there', people will not be able to find the answer for themselves.

Btw, you seem so certain of your proclamation. Who on DU said they are 'pissed that Palin isn't in charge'? Link please! Not that I think you'd just make stuff up out of your head or anything.

[Chulanowa]

19. None have "said it"; it simply drips from pretty much every second post on DU these days

But then I'm one of those rare fully literate people; you know, the ones who can gather context, intent, phrasing, and all that good stuff in addition to the literal text. What comes across is "Anyone but THAT ONE!"

Did Obama break a campaign promise? Yup. Y'know what? There's never been a president who got everything they promised, or who even stood up for everything he promised. If you're surprised, you're not paying attention. Sometimes they're lying. other times they fail. More often, other stuff crowds in before they can actually meet their promises.

The difference between you and I is that you assume that Obama is maliciously lying because... because... Well, I haven't quite figured out why you boobs think he's doing this, truthfully. I, on the other hand, figure that he's still a few days shy of his first fucking year in office, facing down a legislature full of Republicans and the Democrats who wash their balls, a dry-rotted economy, a need to do something to finish the wars kicked up by Bush ("Who?" you ask...) and of course, the fact that so many in his party honestly expected this to be Bagger Vance Goes to Washington.

I would personally be delighted if Obama did rush through and hammer through every single campaign promise he made in eleven months. I would actually be completely awestruck, and would seek some way to have his baby, because that would be some impressive shit. But he can't and he didn't. Disappointing, but not surprising, and not something I'm going to gnaw my knuckles raw and howl at the moon over.

He has three more years. You want to see all that good stuff happen? Round up your fellow boobs who are proclaiming that they will "protest" by not voting in the midterms, kick their ass, and tell them to force some real liberals (I'm sorry, did I use the L word? I meant "progressive") into office. I know a lot of the younger DU'ers have the idea that the president is an emperor who rules by fiat, but the truth is, it's those fuckers in Congress and the Senate who do all the lifting and pushing. Change the condition of hte seas and the boating will go much more smoothly.

[defendandprotect]

49. True . . .we're just really stupid people who want liberal/progressive change and think Palin

and the Repugs are the ones to deliver it-- !!!

Comments like that really show the desperation of the poster --

[Chulanowa]

56. You assume that I think you want liberal and progressive change, don't you?

Hate to break it to you... But I don't think you do. Maybe if I saw some internet critics giving support to the liberal and progressive things that have been accomplished, instead of only supporting the ones that they get to slam Obama with... or maybe if their first response to disappointment when this administration fails to deliver weren't always "FUCK THE DEMOCRATS I'M NOT VOTING / VOTING REPUBLICAN / GREEN / LIBERTARIAN!"... Or maybe if you could focus some ire on the legislators, instead of always pretending the executive branch makes and passes law... Maybe even if you spent less time typing out blind rants against the president with one hand and more time actually working for what you want (bitching on the internet is like playing Curling; even if you win, nobody cares)

I don't think you even think; You're just pissed that Obama's in charge, and would happily have anybody else in there. It's a total obsessive knee-jerk reaction. of course, given the way our system works, that translates into McCain and Palin.

I assume this might be because you're most comfortable with grotesquely stupid people. Might be a mild variant of stockholm syndrome, after their years of Bush, I dunno.

[defendandprotect]

58. Are you suggesting that health care without even the compromise "public option" is liberal change???

What your mantra sounds like is another rendition of "you only want a pony!" . . .

I think you have to understand that many first time and very discouraged voters came out

to vote for Obama with a sense of hope. And many others have stuck with the party despite

many disappointments, due to a continuing sense of hope.

There has been criticism not only of Republicans, but of members of Congress and leaders

and the White House -- no one has been excluded.

Once again what you are showing is anger at criticism of Obama. Get used to it because

there are no signs it's going away given his march toward corporatism after the very first

days of his election!

Many here at DU long supported Obama until this last betrayal over health care.

It's over --

And because I'm certainly NOT comfortable "with grotesquely stupid people" ...

you're on "ignore."

[Kermitt Gribble]

32. There's some brilliant logic for you!

If we're upset over Obama's actions (or inactions, whatever the case may be), we must have wanted Palin as president. :eyes:

[Chulanowa]

57. As far as I can tell, he could be perfect and you'd all still be screaming into your own asses

Which is kind of funny, since you all seem to expect perfection. It's actually kind of funny watching you argue. It's like Congress and the senate are full of perfect angels who would give us any liberal policies and laws we wanted, if only golly gee, Obama would tell them to. And when he doesn't, you start bitching about how awesome Kucinich would be instead. or Nader, or whoever else absolutely fails to win more than half a percent of the vote ever - Never realizing that that's the precise reason you can hold these people up as paragons. Whenever some good policy, or at least not-bad policy gets through, it doesn't make a blip on your radar, except to allow you to bitch about how no matter how good it is, it's not good enough.

Your problem clearly isn't with Obama's actions / inactions; your problem is obama himself. Anyone But Him. And as I point out before, anyone but him translates directly into mcCain / Palin.

And given that the majority of you trail far behind mcCain when it comes to situational awareness and cognitive power, we can kind of remove him from the equation, can't we?

Yes, Ass-Screamers, you're dumber than this:

[treestar]

60. You're so right

If Kucinich were President, he would meet the same problems. And fail sometimes.

[Kermitt Gribble]

63. Yep, we're all haters - you nailed it!

The fact is, most here criticizing Obama couldn't care less if Big Bird were president - as long as they're steering the country in the right direction. Obama's direction? Rahm, Geithner, Summers, Arne Duncan. Economic advisers that had a hand in the economic meltdown and an education secretary pushing privatization of the school system and undermining teachers unions. Is Russ feingold under the bus now for saying this is the HCR bill Obama wanted all along or do you conveniently just not believe him?

This admin isn't even trying to steer the country in the right direction - if they were making even a slight attempt, people would have much more patience.

Wow! I typed a whole post without name calling and insults! Let's see if you can do the same.

[slipslidingaway]

12. What does that have to do with going back on statements made...

during the campaign and in his HC plan, he cut a deal behind closed doors about drug prices.

:shrug:

BARACK OBAMA AND JOE BIDEN’S PLAN TO LOWER HEALTH CARE COSTS
AND ENSURE AFFORDABLE, ACCESSIBLE HEALTH COVERAGE FOR ALL

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

Senator Carper Publicly Defends Secret PhRMA Deal In Exchange For Support Ads

It appears that we may have moved from a possible 300 billion over 10 years to 80 billion.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/slipslidingaway/112

[bvar22]

31. Wow. You think Obama is just a plain powerless little wimp.

...a complete victim who has no power at all.

I believe he is a bigger man than that, and has ALL the resources of the DNC, the Bully Pulpit, a HUGE mandate for "CHANGE" from the American People, and ALL the back door resources of the White House to influence legislation and legislators.

If you believe Obama is such a wimp, why did you vote for him? :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

50. Aah . . . but what is all that compared with the Mighty Omnipotent Lieberman . . . ???

Lieberman who can dictate to Obama and the Dem Party that there will be NO PUBLIC OPTION!!

[truedelphi]

46. Some of us remember leaders like LBJ.

God knows the man had his faults. Vietnam among them.

But by early July 1964 he had a Civil Rights Act enacted. And it was a bill that did not contain a single provision that people of color who needed the Bill needed to purchase their Civil Rights from the perps who had denied them their rights. And LBJ was the one who championed it.

He wasn't a wishy washy, "Gee uh, no one knows what Congress will come up with as their final bill so I don't know whether if the Civil Rights bill will include a provision for Civil Rights or not."

But that is the difference between statesmanship and selling out.

[Fading Captain]

55. LOL. Then why did he say it? Did he not understand the job?

You make a campaign pledge, you keep it.

[slipslidingaway]

4. knr - Healthcare FLASHBACKS ....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/09/flashback-obama-promises_n_254833.html

"We recently learned that President Obama has secretly made a sweetheart deal with Billy Tauzin, the former congressman turned chief lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry. In return for $80 billion in projected cuts -- and $150 million in supportive television ads Obama has apparently sworn to protect the industry from congressional efforts to, among other things, let the government use its bargaining power to lower prescription drug costs..."

[sabrina 1]

15. And that's why they killed Dorgan's amendment

which would have saved Americans over $100 billion on drugs. He was disgusted since had managed to get bi-partisan support for the re-importation of drugs and he says, the WH killed it.

Funny that, since we are told the WH has no power. Yet, they can kill a Senate Amendment which was voted on and approved. That looks like a lot of power to me.

How totally depressing to read about that secret deal. I feel like I don't recognize this man as the same person who campaigned against Corporate control of our health care system.

[slipslidingaway]

25. Yes Dorgan's amendment and up to another 300 billion for Medicare drug ...

prices that the Obama/Biden plan listed as savings.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

[bvar22]

33. The White House also....

...had the "Kucinich Amendment" pulled from the House Bill AFTER it had passed in committee.
This amendment would have allowed states to start their own Single Payer Systems.

Those here trying to sell the idea that the White House is powerless over legislation are selling bull shit.


Black is White.
War is Peace.
I did not campaign on a Public Option.

[defendandprotect]

51. This is beyond shameful, it's criminal . . . and I think quite a push for Dorgan to leave . . .

As the Democratic Party is being pulled more to the right now by Obama/Rahm

and the "corporatists" . . . liberal and progressive Dems will be pushed out . . .

one way or another!

Obama and Rahm are "money in the bank" for the pharmas . . . !!

[Faryn Balyncd]

5. If Harry, Max & the rest of Rahm's corporatists want to try to defy Americans, LET THE CAMERAS ROLL!

Bring them on!

These pathetic creatures can not stand the sunlight!

[nightrain]

7. I sincerely doubt that the corporatist Dems would allow c-span.

[Faryn Balyncd]

8. (These snakes certainly WON'T, if we just ask them nicely.) It's time for hardball.

[defendandprotect]

59. Dems are in double-jeopardy on the health care issue and need back room cover ....

First, visibility would make worse the right wing grievances among those who don't want health

care reform due to inane support for corporatist/GOP interests --

Second, visibility of deal making and ignoring public desire for single payer/Medicare for All --

or at least the compromise Public Option -- would further aggrieve the liberal/progressive Dems

and this could total rupture the Democratic Party.

Ironically, it should be the GOP which is fractured, ruptured and beyond saving --

But because of the right wing infiltration of the Democratic Party which is now so deeply

embedded, many Democrats are faced with having to acknowledge that the party they have trusted

for so long -- the party they have tried to resuscitate so many times -- seems to have been

made totally useless by the right wing infiltration. And, after all .... that was the purpose

of the infiltration!

[nightrain]

6. knr. I got a letter from OFA today with a survey. I shared with them my feelings

of betrayal and did not enclose any contribution.

[Faryn Balyncd]

10. The time for feeling disappointed is past.........It's time to FIGHT LIKE HELL !!!!

(I've certainly spent too much time, myself, feeling disappointed, as have we all.


But the corporatist are COUNTING on us being dispirited.


It's time to FIGHT LIKE HELL !!!!!


And the best tool we have is to drag these bastards, kicking & screaming, out into the sunlight, and force them to play their filthy hand IN PUBLIC!!!!

[nightrain]

13. I hope you're correct on this. It would be sooo counter to the

secrecy we've experienced. I just can't imagine Congress and Obama allowing themselves to be so visible.

[1776Forever]

16. It took real guts to do what she did!

There aren't too many standing up to the current wall of shame we have now. This is the year that President Obama must show us he really means what he said. It makes one wonder if a mind melt was done on him. Honestly it really does make one wonder.

Go Nancy!

[Don Caballero]

17. The blame Obama crowd is out in full force over this

The President does not have the power to allow media to televise Congressional brainstorming sessions. This is just another attempt to bash our President.

[slipslidingaway]

26. The President is Powerless! ...

Support for our President should be our number one priority.

Am I right.

:shrug:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

28. so are you of the view Obama should be gathering powers

that he currently does not have because you think he should be able to do something?

[slipslidingaway]

35. Not at all, just tired of the same excuse. n/t

[Bodhi BloodWave]

47. Aside from the fact that he does not have the authority to do what you wanted

And to do so he would need to assume powers that is currently outside his authority.

That is not an excuse; thats a statement of fact

[LiberalAndProud]

34. Not powerless, but co-equal.

I understand that some who came of age during the Bush era would be confused by this concept. But historically, we have three co-equal branches of government. There is the exececutive branch, of which the Vice President is fact a member (regardless of what you may have heard from Cheney.) There is the legislative branch, in which Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman are currently drunk on the power of the fulcrum. And there is the judicial branch, who also got a bit intoxicated when they were given the opportunity to install a president into office, disregarding the will of the voters.

The press has historically been referred to as the fourth estate. They have, however, largely abandoned that role in that past several years.

Just a little civics lesson. We may need to be reminded after the debacle of the last decade.

[slipslidingaway]

36. It was a sarcastic remark without the sarcasm tag, many times it is

it is used as an excuse for not doing something.

He had the power to negotiate away his campaign promises on drug prices, but obviously cannot speak up about his promise to televise the HC negotiations.

:shrug:

Thanks for the civics lesson.

[Uncle Joe]

39. Being elected by the entire nation convincingly, based on his campaign statements with no member

of Congress able to make that same boast, does allow the President to have some moral authority or "Bully Pulpit" if you will and he can influence this process by lending his voice to the same beliefs; he stated while he was running for office. If Obama believed as President; he couldn't sway or influence the Congress; particularly one controlled in large part by his own party, why speak of such things?

Let Nelson and Lieberman argue against open government on this most critical issue to the American People, and that will only serve to hasten their downfall.

I also believe it would be difficult for the so called "Fourth Estate;" particularly after their loss of credibility with the American People over the past decade or so and after the Wall Street Bankster Bailouts to argue against government transparency on an issue which as written by the Senate will only serve to do the same for the "health" insurance industry.

[LiberalAndProud]

41. I honestly get what you are saying, Uncle Joe.

I also believe that the only reason Ben Nelson is willing to vote for cloture is because tremendous pressure was brought to bear and huge concessions made.

Ben's position has been clear from the beginning:
No federal abortion funds
No public option (he did favor a "weak" trigger at one time)

Now let's add Lieberman to the mix. Lucky for Ben, Lieberman was willing to take the hit on the Medicare buy-in.

Obama met with Ben early on in this process. It was very clear what was do-able and what wasn't from the beginning. It is no accident Ben's concerns have been fully addressed in the current legislation. And to even get him to vote for this cost some concessions to Nebraska regarding "unfunded mandates".

We can argue that Obama should have advocated for a government program from the beginning, although I think such an effort would have ended in another fruitless political brawl in our current climate. Even so, he never advocated for such a thing. He always said that health care reform would be centered around current insurance structures.

It is your contention that Obama didn't try hard enough. It is my contention that he didn't have enough allies.

[Uncle Joe]

42. Leaving the issue of his advocacy for government coverage aside, my post

on this thread was aimed specifically at the process of this debate as posted on the O.P. and his campaign statement.

"....We'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies....."

- - - Barack Obama, August 21, 2008, Chester, Pennsylvania

I believe the process is a most critical point and I believe Candidate Obama understood that as well.

[LiberalAndProud]

43. Sorry, I did get distracted on the issue of the day.

I would like to see this particular debate televised myself. I'll take back nothing that I said, but will grant that I was OT.

[treestar]

62. I always thought the one where Obama should have started with single payer

was a bad argument. In negotiations, you can't start at a point that you'll never get, or you'll be laughed out of the room. I remember trying to settle a fender bender auto accident whiplash case, and this lawyer wanted like $350,000. For a case worth 10, if that. It causes a breakdown in negotiations and you lose credibility. There is no way it should have started from single payer unless there was actually some chance of getting it.

[defendandprotect]

52. Used to be called "leadership" . . .

[defendandprotect]

61. President is expected to give leadership ... didn't Dem Platform support health care ????

It think it did -- certainly the Democratic Platform is something Obama

should be fight for and giving leadership to --

Should be . . . is the key concept!!

[scentopine]

18. K&R I really wonder if they understand the stakes here..

with tea baggers gaining momentum, people are going to look for blame. If the majority of Americans end up with a raw deal, there will be hell to pay.

Rahm and Obama are playing high stakes poker with liberals and they have a very weak hand. If they had kept to their promises for real reform we'd back him up as president for life.

Pissing off your best customers is really, really bad chess.

[highplainsdem]

20. K&R

[KharmaTrain]

21. C=SPIN = Grandstanding...

I'm all for open hearings...and have watched my share of conferences over the year. A great concept but a promise that wasn't realisitic from the outset. Unfortunately the executive is not the legislative. It's taken some here to start to realize that and others still haven't adjusted to a government that allows the legislative to legislate rather than dictate.

Even if the cameras were on and rolling, the heavy lifting would not be done on your teevee screen. If anything, it would give opponents yet another opportunity to spread lies and distortions about the bill, delay the proceedings and generally bore everyone to tears. The real negotiating would still go on in the cloakroom...behind the curtain. We wouldn't get openess...we'd get electioneering. The deals are gonna be cut (and most already have)...it's not going to be shown but added in as ammendments and other procedures so that few see or know what's going on. That's how congress works...your elected legislator and mine.


Note how we're not hearing from many Democrats who are in favor of having the cameras on. They know the perils...and they know how the games are play on the hill. And there's nothing this President can do to affect what's going on. All he wants is a final bill...and the sooner the better. Yep, the game is rigged...but that's how "representative" government works. It can't be truly tranparent as deals will always be done off to the side.

[mmonk]

22. That's a thought. Why should the House always be the one that yields?

[defendandprotect]

53. That's the game: House proposes/Senate disposes . . . . Senate is elite delaying action --

on people's House --

[Dr.Phool]

24. Kick and rec!

Roll the cameras!

They've already eliminated the obstructionist Republicans from the equation. Now it belongs to us. Show it live, and let us see who's with us and who's with the insurance industry.

[Odin2005]

27. K&R

[placton]

29. The wonderful part about the open negotiations

is putting Obamster between the dog and the fire hydrant: his promises versus his actions- how can he complain? But, she will never ever do it. Sigh.

[Kermitt Gribble]

30. This is what Nancy should do

if she is actually interested in representing all of us peons. The Progressive caucus should be behind something like this, as well.

Can you hear us, Nancy?? This may be your last chance to do what is right.

K&R!

[defendandprotect]

54. Nancy Pelosi is DLC . .. corporate wing . . .

[Kermitt Gribble]

64. I agree.

I had such high hopes for her after the 2006 victory, though. Oh well, that was the point I truly became aware of the charade of our "2 party system". My awakening, lol!

[inna]

37. KR

:kick:

[FiveGoodMen]

38. "We'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN"

Politicians still haven't learned that their words follow them in the internet age.

Of course, that only matters if enough people pay attention.

[Uncle Joe]

40. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Faryn Balyncd.

[sunnystarr]

44. Maybe I've just lived too long ....

Since when were candidates expected to fulfill their campaign promises? This expectation seems a recent phenomena cause throughout my life we were always aware those promises were nothing more than a wish list and that we'd be lucky if any of them got through Congress. Unless I'm Rip Van Winkel waking up after 20 years to find a dictatorship in the US where the president is in control and can do anything he wants (or has promised in a campaign), we still have democracy (republic) where Congress makes the laws and the President yays or nays.

Grow up everyone and smell the politics.

[Bucky]

45. I'll bet Lou Dobbs would really hate this post

and not just because of the CSPAN thing

[defendandprotect]

48. Loved Nancy Pelosi's very frank comment !! Gives a little insight into what's really goin on...

OK for C-span ... they had a call in on it this morning --

[Dinger]

65. K & R From Me : )

:patriot: