Prediction: People marching in the streets by summer ... Jobs, Foreclosures, Credit Cards ...

[Blackhatjack]

Senators and Representatives on Capitol Hill still don't get it. We need drastic change that contravenes the interests of Pharma, Wall Street, Insurance Companies, which contribute huge sums of money to their campaign coffers.

And TIME is a most precious commodity when it comes to putting out a fire... and that is exactly what we have got -- a FIRE.

So far it has been too little, ...and soon it will be too late.

[LostInAnomie]

1. Doubt it.

[leftstreet]

2. The job of the politicians and M$M is to prevent revolution

They'll throw a few bones here and there, crank up the class hatred so we keep turning on each other, and promise us CHANGE with the next (and next, and next, and next) election.

:puke:

[Blackhatjack]

7. That worked in the past, but things are moving swiftly in the other direction....

The signs are all around us.

The jobs that are gone won't be coming back anytime soon. We are going to have to create new jobs. We need 10 million new jobs to get back to where we were in 2007 when this recession supposedly started.

Estimates are that fewer than 2% of those eligible for foreclosure assistance have been able to keep their homes.

Credit Card consumer debt interest rates have skyrocketed, and show no signs of abating when the Feb credit card reform law becomes effective. Small businesses are still having trouble getting the loans they need to operate.

The old 'shell game' of condemning 'class warfare' is not going to play out this time. People understand what losing a job and home means. They could care less about whether their complaints are classified as 'class warfare.'

[onenote]

3. Prediction: This prediction is going to be wrong

[donheld]

4. Did you see this in your tea leaves?

:hide:

[Selatius]

5. I don't know. It may require Great Depression levels of suffering before people resort to that.

Frederick Douglas had a warning for us on when people finally snap:

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must pay for all they get."

-- Address on the West India Emancipation, 1857.

[dkf]

6. Maybe if Krugman's 40% probable double dip occurs.

That would be bad. He is placing it right before elections too.

[Blackhatjack]

8. We cannot limp along and expect people to remain quiet and loyal when...

... their lives are turned upside down.

The most dangerous man is the one who believes he has nothing left to lose.

[gateley]

9. I honestly don't think nearly enough people would protest/revolt. We'd need

millions and millions to really get any response or action from the Powers That Be. I wish I didn't think that, but I see how little impact various marches and protests have done (health care, the war).

[Goldstein1984]

10. I hope your prediction is correct, and I'll do whatever I can to

make it happen sooner rather than later.

There's no real way to measure how much suffering there is and how much more it will take before we reach a threshold beyond which massive public outcry occurs. But I don't believe it's that far off.

The economic and political elites are going to push it just as far as they can. Expect to see the concede a little bit if they sense they've pushed the people a little too far. I hope the people are wise enough not to be bought off with a few little concessions.

[AllyCat]

11. I hope you are right. But I fear that everyone will get to that after American Idol

is over. And the reruns. And then syndicated airings.

But I'll be there!

[EmeraldCityGrl]

12. I'm watching a show on the small meth towns

dotting the midwest. These tired old towns with no industry are so beaten down
and drug addled I don't see these people ever standing up and demanding the
kind of change we need. Whenever I drive through these towns I feel to utterly
sad and discouraged. They seem to have accepted their fate and lack any thing
close to resistance.

[napoleon_in_rags]

13. That's a good point. I don't agree with the OPs optimistic outcome of unity in response.

What I'm seeing is people turning against each other, sort of a cultural cannibalism and corruption. That's what you see in those meth towns, people screwing their neighbors by selling the drugs etc.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

16. I just read this on another thread

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/addicted_to_nonsense_20091129

Really worth the read.

[napoleon_in_rags]

23. Yeah, that was a great read actually.

I like this:

Reality, in fact, is dismissed and shunned as an impediment to success, a form of negativity. The New Age mysticism and pop psychology of television personalities and evangelical pastors, along with the array of self-help best-sellers penned by motivational speakers, psychiatrists and business tycoons, peddle this fantasy. Reality is condemned in these popular belief systems as the work of Satan, as defeatist, as negativity or as inhibiting our inner essence and power.

This is a really hard issue, facing the world and remaining functional. I was struggling with something the other night, which I named The terrible interconnectedness of being. Basically, the human genius comes our ability to make connections between like things, to see metaphors, connections. Or as Blake says:

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

But there is a dark side-effect to this ability. When our minds focus on happy things like opportunity, they gain the ability to see it when it comes, to see it all around them in the world. When our minds focuses on injustice, they gain the ability to see it when it comes. The reality we observe is shaped by our cathexis to at all times. Our focus becomes our constant observable reality. So when we face the dark stuff, we start to see it all around us, and it can make us untrusting, dysfunctional, etc. So there is actually a lot of power in a hopeful narrative (which is sorely lacking these days) but it also needs to reflect the real world. That's a tall order, but I think its what would do the world good.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

30. Anyone that has ever struggled with depression understands

what you wrote and yes, it is a struggle. whether on a personal or societal level. :)

[dkf]

14. Who's showing this?

First time I've heard of it.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

15. It was a piece on Nightline.

[dkf]

17. Thanks.

I'll have to check it out.

[Codeine]

18. Nope.

Americans are by and large too fat, too lazy, too apolitical, and too pig-ignorant to do that. Being comforted, cosseted, grossly overfed, profoundly undereducated, and alarmingly stupid is - unfortunately - a way of life now.

[tango-tee]

48. As much as it hurts, I have to agree with your assessment.

I have no idea what it would take to mobilize the population-at-large.

[Don Caballero]

19. People should have been marching during the Bush regime reign

Protesting the President now after only one year in office is ridiculous and will not hasten the change.

[laughingliberal]

20. People did march during the Bush regime nt

[liberal_at_heart]

33. I went to a huge protest the day before the Iraq War started

There were tens of thousands of people protesting the Iraq War. The politicians didn't care. The politicians don't represent the people anymore. With the way this administration just kind of blows off critisism I don't think they would care if people were out in the streets protesting either. Once they get into the Oval Office it's all about "I know what's good for you better than you do. Trust me. Let me make your decisions for you. Let me do your thinking for you from now on. I know what's best for you."

[HughBeaumont]

25. Uh, people DID do that. I should know, because I was one of them. Several times.

Only problem is, there WAS no "The Whole World Is Watching" . . . cuz the whole world DIDN'T watch. Or, to put it simply, the whole world COULDN'T watch.

Once the media got bought out by corporations sometime in the 90s, they decided "Huh, do we REALLY have to broadcast these commies? We wouldn't want America to think anyone HATES Dear Leader Bewsh, would we?"

[Selatius]

32. Where were you during all of the anti-war marches?

Or were you just relying on TV's memory here because plenty of anti-war marches were not covered by national news networks controlled by big corporations?

[Moochy]

43. DU's resident slumlord was busy kicking 'deadbeats' out of his properties

[laughingliberal]

44. Lol! I remember that. nt

[laughingliberal]

21. I think it's time but I think more people are going to need to be in more pain before it happens

Not sure what they think is going to change if we don't start acting but too many seem to think this is the typical little downturns we've seen before. It really may be too late before the masses wake up.

[earth mom]

22. Hope you're right-but I don't think TPTB have annihilated enough of the middle class yet.

As soon as more people have gone from middle class to the working poor if not just flat out poor, then we will see massive protests. It hasn't happened...yet. :nuke:

[TwixVoy]

24. I disagree

It won't be by summer. It is coming, but still a good ways off. I expect around 1-2 more years before we really start to see major unrest. I expect it will start to gradually increase in direct proportion to unemployment benefits being lost.

[WVRICK13]

26. I'll Be There Marching

but I doubt how effective it will be. We have marched against the wars and they continue. Speaking of wars, do Democrats get a pass? When is the next anti-war march in DC?

[AllentownJake]

27. Extended unemployment benefits

They are dumb, they are not that dumb.

[TheFarseer]

28. yeah, we're sending your job to Chindia but

we'll give you unemployment benefits so you don't starve to death. Bill Maher is right, the only difference between Republicans and Democrats is Republicans say, "We're going to piss on you, but maybe one day you'll be one of the pissers." Democrats say, "We're going to piss on you. Here's an umbrella."

[AllentownJake]

29. They eventually will cut them

but not before the 2010 elections. 2011 is when the personal responsibility talk comes from Democrats when they run out of money.

The problem is that disaster is avoidable, if they weren't so fucking greedy.

[Blackhatjack]

31. It won't be this President OR Dems People will be marching in the streets against...

It is the disaster that people are experiencing that will drive them to march against the entire Washington structure that they feel has abandoned them.

They won't be any more predisposed to support Republicans or kick out Democrats so that Republicans can take their place. And it just might be that President Obama will be much more popular than Congress with those marching.

All battles must first be won in the minds of those who will eventually prevail. And it will take people to be convinced that 'marching in the streets' will actually make a difference. But that process of convincing people will accelerate when they feel they have lost everything significant to them, especially where their children are suffering and face a pessimistic future.

Of course there is nothing dishonorable about speaking out to your Government representatives in disagreement with their policies, or to inform them of the state of distress among the populace that requires their immediate assistance. Protests as a form of dissent have always been part of the foundation of this country. I am just predicting that they will reappear in a time of great suffering across the land.

[liberal_at_heart]

34. you're right that it will have to get worse before millions will march

I was part of the anti-war protests against the Iraq War. There were tens of thousands of people marching. But to be effective we are going to need millions marching and that probably won't happen until there is more suffering.

[Javaman]

35. Fail. you want people to march in the streets and also be completely outraged about something?

raise the price of gas to 5 bucks a gallon.

We live in a disconnected (purposely done) society where the individual needs are the publics only concern.

once people can't drive 3 blocks to buy a pack of cigs, then people will get pissed off.

Until then, history has shown, people will put up with an awful lot before they start tearing down the walls.

That only happens when they have nothing left to lose.

We the people still have lots of stuff to lose.

[Blackhatjack]

36. You are right about $5/gal gas, but that is coming too...

However, $5/gal gas affects so much more than driving to a convenience store. Almost everything in this country, including food, travels by truck WHICH DEPEND UPON GAS. So it raises the price of all consumer items, further impacting those already financially devastated.

When people cannot buy food, keep their utilities on, etc. they can become motivated pretty quickly to hit the streets.

[Javaman]

37. Of course it's coming...

and the various things that we can lose we will lose them quickly as a result.

but to believe that our beaten down society will rise up because of moral outrage is laughable.

we just went through 8 years of complete buffoonery that ripped apart the constitution, and yet, were was the outrage outside of those that still read and pay attention?

We are a selfish nation. Until it hits the American public in their life style wallet, nothing will change until then.

We demanded investigation into electronic voting fraud and we were shuffled out of the room.

We demanded a public option and we got thumbed at.

We demanded real investigations into 9/11 and we were laughed at as loons.

etc, etc, etc...

When we get nothing but lip service, we stop trying. The government plays the game better than us.

So until gas goes to at least 5 bucks, nothing will change.

[Blackhatjack]

38. It is the cumulative effect that will drive people to fight back...

Just as those who attempt to take advantage of the people know the limits to which they can push them, those being taken advantage of know when enough is enough.

$5 gas might be the tipping point, but it might be prior to that event that people say they have had enough. And I think that will be when they believe they have little to nothing left to lose.

[Javaman]

41. well of course.

If you look at the causes of the revolutionary war, they were years in the making, same with the civil war.

There is always a tipping point, but given our current circumstances, there aren't many things that will get a self centered society more pissed off then taking away the one thing that makes them self centered.

If you look at the Russian revolution, it was in the making for over 100 years before that actual war. Even though serfdom in that nation as outlawed in the mid 1800's, it still was part of the fabric of that society for many many years and some scholars claim, that it really didn't disappear until the advent of WWII.

What we lack are civic leaders. Voices that have a national platform that speak for the American public. Not the moron becks or blowhards like limpballs, but people like MLK, Malcolm X, Gandhi, etc. Those types of people rarely exist.

The current atmosphere of blanket stupidity shown by our media prevents people such as these from becoming prominent due to pre-emptive character assassination.

They dig and dig for any imperfection to prevent the label of "credibility" being bestowed upon such an individual. This removes that person as a person to rally behind and from becoming the potential Martyr.

I applaud your optimism, but honestly, I have lived on this earth a very long time and the one thing I have seen is that the various powers that be, have effectively silenced the peoples ability to strike back, either verbally or physically.

The tea party morons are nothing but corporate sponsored stooges. The left progressives are played as extremists with out a clue. The first group makes for good moronic TV, the second group makes for good political attacks.

As long as this type of tactic is continued by the government and the media, the people of this nation will perceive as still having a voice, but in reality it is noting more that vents for societal angst. And that is the aim of the government. As long as the people continue to believe they have a voice, regardless of the reality, massive outrage can be adverted. The stoking of the tea party and the lefts anger provides the perfect outlet for pissed off people to vent but not rebel. The one thing the internet has provided is this: a place for people to "anonymously" vent their anger without public ridicule. We all have become keyboard protesters because it's safe.

People can sign all the "virtual protests" they want, they can tweet their anger, they can facebook their various beliefs, but at the end of the day, it's in person protests, rallies and demonstrations that actually get the powers to be to sit up and take notice. Look at the protests at the various WTO meetings or the protests at the RNC in NYC or the protests on the mall in D.C. Yes, the internet got them there and that is why it's still a great tool, but it's just a tool and personally, I don't think it's very effective in the long run to force change.

The in-your-face quality of a live demonstration still makes people notice, regardless of how they are under reported at times.

If you want people to actually have a voice again and "take back the government", then a voice who doesn't care about the personal attacks, who rises above them, who can dish it out in a eloquently visceral sort of way, yet keep a balance of what is right against what is required, all the while maintaining a humble-ness and a sort of self depreciating humor and never taking his or her eye off the final goal, then you will have a movement of change that people will follow, but alas, as I stated above, people like that are sandbagged before they are ever even out of the gate.

The only way people without a leader react is when their personal comfort level is compromised.

That is done when gas prices go up and become to expensive to carry on as usual.

Until then, we the middle class will die a death of a 1000 cuts, while all the "concerned" leaders "try as best they can" to help us. Aka nothing but working to get themselves reelected.

Yeah, I'm jaded, but honestly, I have yet to see anything in our society that gives me hope for real change.

Cheers.

[Blackhatjack]

42. There is a lot of truth to what you say, but remember that history will repeat itself...

Just when you think that the people have been beaten into permanent submission, they surprise us all and rise up to demand their rights.

Just when Karl Rove spoke of a 'permanent Republican majority' the Repubs drowned in their own hubris and were turned out of office as the majority party.

I agree with your view on charismatic leaders who could make a difference, they are often identified and killed off by their enemies early before they get a foothold in public consciousness.

However, you would be wrong to assume Americans will continue to take what has been dished out for the past 50 years and remain lowly serfs to the ruling elites.

It is coming... and all these events are speeding up that day.

[tango-tee]

49. That's precisely what it will take...

...when people have nothing left to lose.

[WeDidIt]

39. Nope

The Stimulus is still less than 30% kicked in.

Summer will be a lot different.

[Imajika]

40. Are we sure those marching would be with us?

The Democrats are in power now. We hold the legislative and executive branches of government. If things suck so bad that we have people marching in the streets this summer right before the 2010 elections, why would anyone think this would be a benefit to the left or progressives?

If these conditions actual occur, it is just as likely, if not MORE likely, that it would be in opposition to those currently in power. In fact, this situation would lend itself to demagogues and right wing populist tea party types.

No, I think we better hope this doesn't happen.

Fortunately, I rather think the economy will improve, the President will be at around 50% approval and the Democrats will hold both the House and Senate with room to spare in November.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

46. Can we all drive our imported cars to the march to protest lack of jobs?

That ought to be a hoot.

Don

[arcadian]

47. Activist is a 4 letter word on DU

[ThomWV]

50. It will not happen for one reason - its an election season and they will be mollifying us