On the accussations of "Would you rather have McCain/Palin?" thrown at some

[TornadoTN]

Remember, our President told us shortly after he was elected (and during the campaign, for that matter) that we are the ones that had to hold him responsible for his governing. We don't need to be the GOP that spouts "You either are with us or against us" and march in lockstep with everything that their party says or does, we actually need to take the President up on his word of holding him accountable to his promises.

Just because some of us are disappointed with this President thus far, it doesn't mean we would rather have Palin, McCain, etc. etc. It's a ridiculous assertion on its face. We can - and should - voice our displeasure at the current state of things in Washington and in this country. If that means being disappointed, angered, or otherwise at the President and his staff, then that is what we have to do. That's the beauty of living in this country - we can disagree and work towards effective change. If we blindly march in lockstep and take things at face value, we are no better than the GOP and are hurting ourselves. To get to the change we need in this country, we have to make noise and hold everyone to account - even if they are Democrats.

And yes, he's been much better than Bush in some areas, but in others he certainly hasn't strayed too far from the standard that was set before. I'm proud of our President on some things, but thoroughly disappointed in others - and I plan on voicing my displeasure at every opportunity that presents itself. It's what he told us to do and what we owe ourselves in this supposed Democracy.

[Blue_Roses]

1. self-delete

[TornadoTN]

3. Revised

Care to dispute anything at all in the topic or would you rather just throw around random insults without any basis?

[Blue_Roses]

8. it's just getting so old...

and ridiculous. The man has only been in office just shy of a few days from a year and "I haven't got mine yet" reeks in GD like I've never seen before. So yes, it is a childish mentality to want it ALL and RIGHT NOW!

I can understand civil discourse, but some of this shit here is just downright STUPID and yes, immature.

However, out of respect for you, I did self-delete.

[laughingliberal]

11. It's not about, "I haven't gotten mine, yet"

This is not about Obama not 'fixing' things fast enough. It's about him moving in the opposite direction of 'fixing' things on a lot of issues. And, yes, that little right to seek redress from the government for grievances is still there. So, when I see a Democratic president governing from the right, I do intend to say so.

[TornadoTN]

13. I see what you are saying and understand it

My point is that we have to work at getting our voice heard, not just expect it to happen. We have to work harder and organize our efforts to counter out the overbearing influence of money and corporate interests in the political world.

A call to action, if you will.

[rhett o rick]

15. It's not just that he hasnt done the major things he promised, but he appears not to be interested

any more. And Rahm has made it perfectly clear that the admin listens to CorpAmerica and the new right-wing of the Party and the rest of us can STFU.

I am sorry if you think it is getting old already, but unless things change dramatically, you will be hearing a lot more.

[laughingliberal]

26. Unfortunately, things are maybe going to have to get a lot worse before people listen

That's just the country we have, now. As long as people think things aren't too bad, yet, or they can point to a little thing or two where Obama did better than Bush not much is going to change. Either there are some progressive economic policies adopted soon or a whole lot of the people who don't like the griping they hear out of us will be right there with us when the pain reaches them.

[rhett o rick]

41. I agree. nt

[joeybee12]

28. Immature? Holding someone accountable for promises is immature?

Geesh, talk about illogical.

[TornadoTN]

29. In fairness, I think the immaturity that the poster speaks about is this

It's the manner in which it's projected. Some people are just angry (justifiably) and lash out, perhaps not putting it into the best of terms.

So it's not so much immaturity per se as it is how it comes across.

Of course, I've seen some people who are steadfastly behind anything President Obama does call any bit of criticism directed at him immaturity, so it's a two-way street.

[Blue_Roses]

42. thank-you

and well said:)

[n2doc]

2. I have his inaugural poster- it says "Be The Change"

You are exactly right. It is, however, really frustrating to feel like our voices aren't being heard. I hope that changes.

[TornadoTN]

4. That's what we have to do - BE THE CHANGE

I honestly feel that President Obama wants what we want, but it's difficult given the current environment of politics in this nation. We have to somehow rival the power of the corporate interests. Where they have money - we have numbers. We have to make that translate into a power that is unrivaled.

[elocs]

24. Why do our voices need to be heard when our votes have already been had?

And then we are told we have nowhere else to turn to anyways, so it's too bad, so sad.

[dmallind]

5. Which misses the whole point

We have two options. Not the best scenario to be sure, but that's what we have. A lack of support (donations, time, votes) for A will increase the chances of B. Whether people who threaten to withdraw support want or prefer Palin et al does not matter. By withdrawing support from Obama because they are disappointed over some issue or other they unavoidably increae the likelihood that Palin or similar loon will win.

The strange idea that saying this somehow prevents people from criticizing or otherwise attempting to express displeasure is nonsense. Criticize Obama all you like. Just be aware that you only have the choice of Obama or a Palin type, and that the support of very few people in a few states may make the difference. It is no more censorship to remind you of this than it is censorship to criticize him in the first place.

To the average DUer Obama may be five steps to the right. The only other alternative is 10 steps further to the right. Take your pick which you want to win, and act accordingly, because somebody any closer to the average DUer ain't running and couldn't win if they did.

[TornadoTN]

9. I get that point entirely. Which is why I say for all of us to be active and be loud

At the end of the day, it will be up to all of us to evaluate what we have done to get our voices heard and our ideas for policy implemented. If we can affect the discourse just one bit, I consider it a success.

Obama, to me is a Centrist - not right or left to be honest. That's fine and I realized that to some degree in 2008 when I worked and voted for him. But it doesn't mean that I'm not going to push hard for some policies that are considered "leftist". As a matter of fact, I don't believe that health care reform can be characterized as a right or left issue - it's a human issue, because health care isn't a matter of right v. left politics because it can affect us all equally.


All of us will have to be active and to push hard, then we can all individually decide what our options are in the voting booth. I don't like voting for the lesser of the two evils, but I will because I know the consequences of such. I think that most here do as well. But we shouldn't let that silence us into a forced complacency.

[laughingliberal]

16. I just gotta say, here, the Palin boogeyman is getting old

Is there anyone who thinks even the Republicans are stupid enough to let this woman withing shouting distance of a national ticket any time soon? Now, there are no Republicans fit for office but this Palin-booga booga is just tiresome and I, for one, am beginning to tune out those who use it.

[dmallind]

34. Then change the name. Do you think the Reps will nominate anyone significantly more left? NT

[laughingliberal]

38. They are, obviously, not going to nominate anyone acceptable to me but the Palin meme just insults

people's intelligence. Come to think of it, they will likely nominate someone a little to the left of Palin cause that would include anyone except, possibly, the grand wizard of the KKK. Still won't be anyone I'd vote for but this is rapidly becoming a slur people are using against fellow Democrats. Not persuasive, IMHO.

[grytpype]

31. Thank you for some sanity.

Libs just don't get that they are part of a coalition that doesn't agree on everything.

We do agree that the Bushist crazies need to be kept out of power permanently.

Or so I thought.

[TornadoTN]

33. Of course we think they should be kept out of power

But not at the expense of giving up our ability to petition the government to have our voice heard or holding our leaders to account for promises that they made to secure our votes.

No one is saying we need to give up and let the GOP take over. Most of us are just tired of being promised one thing and delivered another - all because we are threatened with the GOP retaking the government.

I'll take a Democrat every time over a Republican. But that doesn't mean that I have to like what the Democrat does, especially when it's only marginally better than what a Republican would offer. I plan on exercising my right to have my displeasure known to the powers in charge and petition them to take another course or action.

[quinnox]

6. well said

Personally I don't bother to respond to stuff like that as you outlined in your post, it is a ridiculous and moronic argument to make that you must like the other side if you don't say nice things all the time about Obama, and I don't want to waste time responding to it. But you are right of course.

[Bucky]

7. I believe his quote was "You'll have to hold my feet to the fire"

We haven't.

[TornadoTN]

10. The beauty of the Democratic Party to me is that we should be constantly evolving

Evolving our positions, instead of sitting mired in the 1800's and the 1920's mentality that the GOP is stuck in. There should be room for discourse and debate, but we also have to work hard to make our voices louder than the corporate interests that currently dominate the political landscape.

I, like you, feel we haven't done that. But we have to work for it - not just expect it to happen.

[HughMoran]

12. Their is a difference between 'constructive criticism' and 'angry rants' however

Tearing someone down in order to 'build them up' is not the most constructive way to effect a change in their position.

There's an awful lot of space between 'destructive criticism', 'constructive criticism' and 'march in lockstep'. Binary thinking leads to binary results - except in the real world there is always compromise. The inability to seek a reasonable compromise is where we get stuck.

[TornadoTN]

14. Agreed. I think we should refocus our efforts and refine our message

At least those of us on the more progressive side of the spectrum. I, too, get a little concerned when I see a downright bashing of our President but I also understand the feelings of some that are lashing out.

To me, we really need to turn this anger into a constructive movement because that's the only way that we will ever get heard and actually see results.

[HughMoran]

21. Agreed!!

If only we could harness all of this energy toward a constructive outcome!

Signing online petitions isn't the answer. In fact, I'm not sure how change can be effected from the internet. With Democrats in power, are we doomed to an existence of sniping at each other until nobody listens to anybody any more and nothing is accomplished (except upset feelings)? I wish I had an answer - I'm going to think about this - there has to be a way we can effectively apply pressure - or at least I'd like to think there is a better way.

[TornadoTN]

25. The internet is still a powerful tool

Look what it did for the Obama campaign in 2008. I think it's part of the equation to get things on the right path.

Sniping at each other doesn't help but it's an inevitable part of using this medium.

Personally, I feel like all of us angered by some of the decisions are very unorganized in our message and some just don't know how to put the message together in a way that isn't a complete barrage of anger. Perhaps putting together something like "Organizing for America" but for disaffected Democrats might be part of the solution. The key will be to keep the vitriol out and the anger tamed. Then work on a uniform message that all can get behind - not a small task, but I think it could happen.

[rhett o rick]

18. Tell that to the mob at the gates that have loved ones dieing in Afghanistan or

from lack of health care.

[HughMoran]

23. re-read my post

rational thinking and constructive action is the only way we'll accomplish anything

[rhett o rick]

40. i dont disagree. Just pointing out that it's hard to get a starving man to be rational. nt

[laughingliberal]

19. Sure but people do take literary license to drive home points

For instance, does anyone really think Palin will be allowed near a national ticket even by Republicans? Yet, almost every post that criticizes those unhappy with the president plays the Palin card. That said, judicious compromise is good. More often I am seeing posts which suggest anything less that syncophantic caving and adulation is unacceptable. Both sides could take it down a notch.

[StarfarerBill]

17. K&R, fellow Tennesseean.

:)

[Mira]

20. K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Being "not as bad" isn't good enough and people are catching on to it.

"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." Thomas Paine

[TornadoTN]

27. Agreed. But sadly, that's the reality of the situation

I really hate feeling like I really don't have an option that reflects my vision and ideals. Certain parts of the Democratic Party know this and has brought the corporate overlords into the fold - knowing that they can get what they want and we'll still vote for them because the alternative is a Republican disaster.

It's a sad reality, but I believe we can reverse the trend. We just have to be organized, unified, and our message has to be clear. Again, no small task at all but it's achievable if people are as mad as they seem to be.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. They'll come after votes. We have to make them earn them.

Just holding our noses and giving them another chance only encourages them to ignore us and seek out the right.

[TornadoTN]

32. Bingo.

That's our ace in the hole, so to speak.

[Don Caballero]

35. Oh my God the Obama bashing here is really bad

The President deserves our support and not sniping from his base.

[TornadoTN]

36. I think you miss the point of the thread

Sniping from his base is what you call criticism in areas that are (rightfully) needed?

I'm sorry, but I won't march in lockstep just because he's a Democrat. He said himself to hold him to account - and that's what many of us are doing.

[havocmom]

43. Reminds me a lot of what GOP pol & pundits said when bush was in

Not any more logical now than then.

When the leader is going the wrong way, in a democracy it is the citizens' obligation to point that out.

[swilton]

37. Being 'much better than Bush'

doesn't say that much given that the bar was set so low that the opportunities were exponentially great, especially given the electoral mandate and majorities in both our legislative houses.

[HughMoran]

39. Lieberman - still not a Democrat

What part of 59 does not equal 60 is that difficult for people to understand?