"Ignoring Accountability, but Closing Schools" anyway. From a NYC blog.

[madfloridian]

If a school is accountable but closed anyway, one must assume there are other agendas involved.

From EdWize:

Ignoring Accountability, but Closing Schools

NYC’s accountability system — Progress Reports and Quality Reviews — has cost the city millions and millions of dollars and wrought infinite havoc on the schools. Terrified of being closed if they don’t satisfy the formulas and rubrics, schools recast the work they do for children into work they do for the system. To satisfy the demands of the Progress Reports, schools teach to deeply flawed tests. To satisfy the demands of Quality Reviews, they place their limited resources (time, money, people) on grooming the dogs and ponies for the reviewer. That is an unavoidable consequence of high stakes cultures, and one that (in the case of QR) probably dismays some DoE’ers as much as us.

But dismay aside, the DoE is utterly invested in its accountability system. It has been the favorite child, and actually the only child, of Chancellor Klein. It is also the one he takes on the road with him when he visits other states. And the message is clear: We are going by the data in New York, and using the data in sophisticated ways in our accountability system. If a school can’t meet the standards of the Progress Reports and Quality Reviews, well then, we just might shut it down. Which is why it comes as some surprise to me to discover that the DoE pretty much tossed out its own accountability system when it named the schools it wants to close this year. We know this because for the first time, the DoE has been forced to provide the school communities with Educational Impact Statements (EIS). In them, the DoE must explain why it wants to close the school.

Read a little about one school that will be closed.

But let’s take a look at the EIS for just one of the schools that the DoE hopes to close. Let’s compare it to the standard. In the EIS for The School for Community Research and Learning (SCRL), the DoE writes:

“Under the DOE’s accountability framework, schools that receive an overall grade of D or F on the Progress Report….”

(SCRL received a C this year and has never had a D or F.)

…(or) schools receiving a C for three years in a row…

(SCRL has not had three C’s. Last year it received a B.)

…and a score below Proficient on the Quality Review are subject to school improvement measures. If no significant progress is made over time, … closure is possible.

(SCRL has a “Proficient” on its Quality Review. Here are a few of the many fine things the Reviewer had to say:

* The high expectations of teachers, students and parents are in evidence in all aspects of the work of the school.
* Students in greatest need of improvement receive valuable support from the teachers and other staff and make good progress in their achievement levels.
* There are good communication systems, which engage parents as partners in their children’s education.

Some more schools being shut down by the NYC DoE. They met the criteria, but it did not matter.

Of the 20 schools chosen for closing:

* Thirteen were found to be Proficient on the Quality Review
* None had an F and eight did not have a D either.
* Three did not have three C’s in a row.

There is a most interesting comment right after the post. It bluntly tells the truth.

If you close schools, you get to throw tenure and union rules under the bus. So the DOE has every incentive to close schools on a whim. And some of us act surprised?

I am glad I am retired, but it angers me so much to see this agenda of privatization being ramrodded through with the public and many teachers still unaware.

And it has the blessings of the Democratic party leaders.

The agenda is turning public schools over to private management companies.

Now test after test is showing us the charters overall fare no better. And we have known this for years now.

From 2005: Published on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 by the Boston Globe
Charter Schools' Troubled Waters
by Derrick Z. Jackson

Despite promising us a compass, charter schools have hit another shoal. More evidence says they are no better than public schools.

"Proponents of charter schools have a deregulationist view of education that says the marketplace leads to better schools," Lawrence Mishel, president of the nonprofit, nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute, said over the telephone. "The facts of the matter suggest that this view is without merit."

continue reading...

Mishel and three other university researchers from Columbia and Stanford universities are authors of the forthcoming book "The Charter School Dust-Up." The researchers reviewed federal data and the results from 19 studies in 11 states and the District of Columbia. They found that charter school students, on the whole, "have the same or lower scores than other public school students in nearly every demographic category."

[waiting for hope]

1. K&R

Question .. I know why test scores are going down in the public system - NCLB and teaching to take the test are the two biggest contributors to that - but are not charter exempt from NCLB? So wouldn't stand to reason that perhaps the charter teachers are not a invested into the position as those in the public school system?

[madfloridian]

4. IMO the "test" still reigns supreme no matter what.

I know some charter schools must take the NCLB test, the FCAT, guess it depends on the state.

A test formed by a private company without oversight, and scored the same way. That test whatever it may be determines what the children learn.

[salin]

25. My understanding is that NCLB trumps state laws (including charter laws)

I believe that charters have to take the same state assessments.

Which is another can of worms. Most states no longer develop or administer their tests. Private companies like CTBMcGraw are making a killing on state tests.

Pre NCLB most states tested at fewer grades - for example 3 grade might be tested on reading and math, and 5th grade tested on social studies and science, and grade 7 again on reading and math. This didn't show an individual student's progress but was to give a snap shot over time of how the school/district was doing. NCLB mandated annual testing at all grades between 3-8 and a highschool grad test. I understand the rationale (to be able to disaggregate data, and be able to track individual student progress) - but the high bar for AYP which is supposed to be "100% at all grades pass" by 2014 is ridiculous. And the resources required at a state dept of education to create/administer... also ridiculous. State testing has become quite a lucrative business for many well connected publishing companies.

[ThomCat]

2. Did anyone expect any different from Klein?

Seriously. Did anyone really think that he really was going to play by any set of rules? That would mean that he was restricted in what he could do.

He doesn't seem to believe that he is restricted in any way. Restrictions are for little people.

His primary goal has been obvious from the beginning. He was brought in my Bloomberg to break the Teacher's Unions by any means necessary. He gets brownie points form Bloomberg if he has fake reasons for his actions so they can officially claim they aren't just breaking the unions.

[madfloridian]

3. I would think it would alarm people that schools are closed though accountable.

I don't think many really care.

That is why they can push this through so easily.

[salin]

26. I think real examples of some exceptionally poor performing schools have been used

to create a belief that this is widespread. Thus without information the assumption probably is that the schools are identified via accountability plans and thus should be closed. I think that there is concern... just not a high level priority concern... unless it is "my" school that is slated to be closed.

Complacency wedded to a perception that a small but very real crisis (in some urban schools) is actually a much bigger and broader problem leaves items like this go unnoticed and leaves carte blanche for this to happen.

[madfloridian]

31. Agreed, and it is happening so fast there is not time to think.

[Vidar]

5. K&R.

[Nikki Stone1]

6. K & R

.

[kristopher]

7. What's your solution?

Testing isn't perfect but it is a hell of a lot better system that the abomination that we now have. Are you completely oblivious to how fucking huge of a disaster our public schools are?

[sulphurdunn]

8. To which public schools are you refering exactly?

There are approximately 14.000 K-12 public school districts, 99,000 K-12 public schools and 50,000,000 K-12 public school students in the US. The poorest schools are in the poorest districts of the poorest counties and municipalities of the poorest or lowest property tax states. Children doing poorly in school tend to come from broken homes, or poverty or both. High or low academic achievement can be correlated positively with the incomes and educational levels of parents. Standardized tests and diversion of public monies to charter schools alters none of these realities.

[kristopher]

11. I asked what your solution was.

Trotting out some isolated demographics that correlate to poor performance (correlation is not causation) means nothing. There are very good data from other countries that disprove the role of economic status as a causal factor.

What is your solution?

[ThomCat]

14. What is Your solution?

That's pretty damned arrogant of you to insist that people can't discuss an issue unless they can offer a way to solve problems that industry experts can't even solve. By your standard, nobody would be allowed to discuss school issues.

Telling people to shut up on a discussion board is bad manners.

[sulphurdunn]

22. Malnutrition correlates with early mortality but doesn't cause it.

Disease does. The foreign studies you mention usually come from countries with homogeneous populations and very different histories and educational systems.

To answer your question, here's what I'd do:

1. I'd abolish the current system of government and replace it with one designed to serve the interests of all the people.
2. I'd create a full employment economy.
3. I'd upend the current distribution of wealth in which the top 10% of the population own more than the bottom 90%.
Shall we discuss how?

[kristopher]

29. Malnutrition?

That is an evasive diversion. Yes, I know the standard EXCUSES that US teachers use to dismiss the data showing their failures, but issues like cultural homogeneity do not invalidate the results. Instead those issues lead to the demand that we identify what - PRECISELY - is it about the homogeneous population that is responsible (or not) for the success.

For an example that is obvious look at the fact that the teachers there dedicate themselves 60+ hours each week, 52 weeks each year to working DIRECTLY with the children. They are at school during vacations, after school, and on weekends. What sort of "cultural" influence is at work in making that happen? Is it a funding problem, or a problem with the expectation of our teachers about what is required of them?

I understand and agree with the idea that the effect of economic inequality at the school funding level is a (small) part of the problem, however the idea that *the* answer to our educational shortcomings lies in better funding at the local school level is pure self serving hogwash.
I understand and agree with the idea that income inequality is an issue, but do you honestly assert that your proposals are anything more hyperbolic nonsense?

Talking with US teachers (yes I'm generalizing but I've yet to meet the exception) is similar to talking to those who support the current healthcare system. In spite of the obvious failure to figure out a way to have their "success stories" adopted in a universal manner, they ALWAYS insist that if we just devote enough money to the problem, then it will work out. Do we really HAVE that much money? And even if we did is there really evidence that it is going to address the problems of the largest majority of our poorly motivated students?

The question that needs to be asked is "What can our present educational system do to successfully motivate the largest number of students to apply themselves to gaining an education?"

Almost nothing else matters.

[sulphurdunn]

33. This is too much ad-hominen rant to respond to in detail.

However, if you think that sending children to school for 60 hours a week, 52 weeks a year is conducive to a good education, I think I understand why you have such a problem with American public schools.

[kristopher]

35. And if you think fixing our education system requires a total restructuring of society

then it is obvious that no positive change can occur.

Perhaps you should ponder why those children are *eager* to follow a school schedule like that. A hint: the motivation doesn't originate in the home.

[sulphurdunn]

38. I've heard this argument for years.

It's standard fare for all education reform and privatization movements. It assumes that the time spent daily in school has a greater impact on student's lives than what goes on outside of school, that if you just have the right motivators any child can be trained and drilled to pass multiple choice tests with flying colors, and that is the measure of both excellence and accountability. Hint: The US has about 3 times the population of Japan. Poverty rates among children in the US are 13 times higher.

[kristopher]

40. That response indicates

... in imposition of your cultural perspective on what happens elsewhere. I think it is telling that you perceive the tests as a thing you "pass". Is that the only perspective you think exists and what do you think that says about how you are evaluating the overall problem?

"It assumes ...that if you just have the right motivators any child can be trained and drilled to pass multiple choice tests with flying colors,"

No, that isn't what it assumes. The assumption is that MOST children will not receive the reward that the tests bestow, therefore the results of the test are extremely important to the individual taking the test.

[sulphurdunn]

49. Actually,

I'm trying to make a distinction between cultural perspectives. What you say works more or less for upper quartile students. Believe me, most of the rest take the test to pass the test. Most kids in the bottom quartile, especially those with special needs know they are unlikely to pass the test, and they are correct. And because they fail to pass these tests they also know they will not receive high school diplomas. They will, however, get a ticket to the permanent American underclass and their schools will be declared to have failed. If you haven't read the provisions of NCLB, you should. In 2014, any school failing to produce 100% pass rates on standardized tests will be considered a failed school i.e a candidate for privatization. In just one of many perverse ironies, a hypothetical minority student with disabilities who is poor and does not attend regularly and fails the test and drops out can be counted against the school five times. This would be true even if every other student in the school maxed the test and every senior got a free ride to Harvard. Students failing to receive a standard diploma, even severely and profoundly disabled students are counted as having failed to pass. These same students will be required to suffer remediation classes and retake the test repeatedly, even though they cannot possibly pass it. It's not about motivation. It's about justice and equity and economic agendas having nothing to do with classroom instruction or the welfare of children.

[tonysam]

50. That poster has no clue what goes on in education

or how hard it is to teach. It isn't a 9-5 job.

And kids need to be kids and have time off to be kids.

[kristopher]

52. You'd be amazed at how much they allow kids to be kids.

I can't condense all I've seen into a couple of posts, but suffice to say that they start out with a level of discipline that would make most Americans despair of ever seeing order. By the time 4th grade rolls around they children are voluntarily a model of order, and around 7th grade the discipline becomes what most western observes think of as typical.

Also, a large part of those long hours are spent in multigrade social activities requiring some type of learning. In that environment, the teachers are mostly overseers as the older students are tasked with teaching the younger students. It is INCREDIBLY effective.

[tonysam]

45. You pretend like you are an "expert," but any teacher or former teacher

sees through your BULLSHIT.

[kristopher]

12. Dupe deleted

[defendandprotect]

10. Testing is an abomination as a teaching tool . . . just give it a little thought!

The solution is to equalize spending on public schools -- and to CLOSE Charter schools

which drain money from public education --

Create "Magnet" schools we've heard about but never put in place --

Replace ART in our schools -- provide liberal educations for all students --

not educations intended to turn them into corporate robots --

[kristopher]

13. How do you explain schools overseas

...where per student spending is a fraction of the POOR schools here yet where they deliver students that are much more knowledgeable than our students?

These schools all rely on testing.

[keroro gunsou]

28. other countries

tend to place an emphasis on education, moreso than here. sure, we can talk a good game about education, but we fail in execution. when an honor student is held in the same regard as the all american athlete, THEN i'll be less cynical. we're becoming a nation of dumbasses. treating intelligence as a character flaw is not a sign of a healthy society.

[kristopher]

30. Well said.

That is an important part of the picture.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Abomination????

Nice rw talking points there. You are trained well :)

[kristopher]

17. IT is my experince with our system that has created my opinion.

My children went to public school K, and 8-12+ in the US.
They went to k-7 in Japan.

The comparison reflects very poorly on US TEACHERS.

[sulphurdunn]

23. I would guess that your kids

went to one elementary school and to one middle school or equivalent in Japan, and something similar here? It is regrettable that the schools they went to here didn't measure up to the schools they attended in Japan. However, I fail to see how that "reflects very poorly on US TEACHERS" as in all 3,000,000 US teachers in all of the 99,000 public schools in the US.

Japan is a most interesting country. I hope your kids enjoyed living there.

[kristopher]

27. So your point is that my sample is non-representative?

I'm not basing this on quantitative data, but on qualitative data. Do you have any idea how to gather, analyze and apply qualitative data?

[sulphurdunn]

34. Of coursse your sample isn't representative.

Yes. And no, you have not used qualitative data to make your argument. You have merely made a hasty generalization. Anyway, If I have caused you offense with this discussion I apologize. Have a nice day.

[kristopher]

36. I didn't say I had...

...used the data to MAKE the argument, only that my remarks were based on qualitative data. 14 years of participant observation by a trained observer hardly equals a "hasty generalization".

[sulphurdunn]

37. OK.

Your original argument was: My children have attended both American and Japanese schools and Japanese schools were better. From this, you could not logically conclude that American teachers are inferior to Japanese teachers, only that Japanese schools are superior for reasons you support from personal (qualitative) experience and amount of instructional time supported by (quantitative) studies purported to link those factors to better achievement test scores. That makes for a valid conclusion, although it doesn't necessarily make it true. The inference that your observations and conclusion reflect poorly on American teacher does not follow logically. That is an opinion, not a fact.

[kristopher]

39. Well congratulations.

All of that to note that on an internet forum I wrote an opinion and not a dissertation.

The quantitative data tells us the system is broken. The qualitative data suggests a great deal and very little of what is indicated is part of the discussion that is taking place here. Instead all we see is a tug of war over money with political gamesmanship thrown in for good measure; little of which is actually based on a desire to actually reform the system.

If you haven't diagnosed the problem, it is highly improbable that you are going to fix it. We aren't going to produce perfection, but just as with health care, we have to place our efforts where they do the greatest good for the greatest number.

FWIW here are my conclusions about the success I observed:
-The students under a successful testing system are also under a system where success in testing is rewarded with a *fully funded* university education at the best schools.

-Money can't buy a slot at those schools. This enhances the prestige value of the reward.

-There are alternative educational opportunities starting at the high school entry level for students not suited to or desirous of a 4 year university education.

-Everyone knows from early in their educational career that not everyone will qualify. If economics tells us anything that is undeniable it is that scarcity enhances perceived value.

-Perceived value is the basis of motivation - even for middle school students.

-Equal opportunity is available as everyone takes the same tests. It can be argued that wealth can skew the chances by enabling better private instructional opportunities for the wealthy students. I agree that is true; however, its significance shouldn't be exaggerated. When the normal classroom environment is performing with motivated students, this is reduced as a consideration to the point where it is only valid as a criticism of what is happening at the very margins of who qualifies and who doesn't.

- (ETA) The result works because it is a simple goal with an easily understood reward. Do well on the tests and you will go to a good university that will probably make you successful in life. It is the simplicity and directness of the effort/reward equation that makes it work as a motivator. No matter the parental background or income the parents and children KNOW that study results in scoring well on tests and that scoring well on tests gets you a real reward that money can't buy.


In a nutshell those are the key elements that I believe make the overseas systems superior to ours. Are there areas where our methods produce better outcomes? Yes, there are. But again I relate that to the health care debate. In both cases we cannot excuse condemning vast numbers of our population to a status of being nonparticipants in the system because it works well for a slim majority. When it is impossible to extend even an approximation of that success to the nearly all, then we need to look to new models.

[sulphurdunn]

43. Thankyou.

I have studied the Japanese, European and education system somewhat, along with that of Singapore. One thing they all have pretty much in common, if memory serves me, is serious dual track academic/vocational education. We don't. I have long maintained that the route our children take should be decided by the 8th grade. We would have far better outcomes if we did this. On the other hand, I prefer flexibility. I like the idea of subsidized tuition for higher education and open enrollment for community colleges. America is predicated on the idea that no matter what, if you pull yourself up, you have an opportunity to change your destiny. Having said this, I remain steadfast within the paradigm of my own experience. Without social justice, the pathologies of our K-12 educational system are irremediable for the simple reason that the current system is a microcosm of them. They are cultural. Before we can utilize new models, things need to be shook up. Turning public schools over to private enterprise is a bad idea. That is an old model. It did not provide opportunity for the masses of children in the past and will not do so now.

[tonysam]

48. You can't compare a homogeneous society as

in other countries and say what they do is what should be done here. In fact, our public education system has been the model for other countries.

I fucking HATE this Bill Bennett shit being promoted on a so-called Democratic discussion board.

[kristopher]

53. Bill Bennett shit?

I couldn't even tell you what that is.

You sound just like someone saying "we have the best healthcare system in the world; you can't compare it to other countries."

Homogeneity is a canard routinely trotted out to discourage a line of inquiry that far too many people just don't want to look at.

[kristopher]

51. Public education should be the core of the system

Social justice is (IMO) largely the multigenerational result of equal access to higher education. Have you ever talked with parents who understand the value of education yet have no experience with education outside of the one that barely taught them to read?

Try eliciting a description with of their understanding regarding what their children specifically need to do to be a success in the world. There is a huge barrier to entry that begins it's work the day the child is born. That barrier is imposed by the knowledge requirement of how our educational system works. The complexity you embrace is the root of the problem.

[tonysam]

44. You're full of it

You're comparing a homogeneous culture like Japan to ours? What a nice bunch of right-wing talking points right out of Bill Bennett.

[tonysam]

46. This is why you are not credible

Public education an abomination? Christ, are you full of shit.

[MadHound]

54. Umm, the system we have now is a high stakes testing system,

This NCLB, test driven system has been in place for eight years now, and it is wrecking our system. The drive for testing is our current system and it is wrecking our schools and doing a massive disservice to an entire generation of students. Are you completely oblivious to that?

The solution that you seek involves more funding for education, less of this test driven, NCLB assessed bullshit, letting teachers teach, getting parents more involved in their student's education and life in general, oh, and did I mention more funding?

Stop outsourcing things like school food services, let go of that one sized education fits all myth, raise teaching to the status that it deserves as a profession, thus attracting the best and brightest to the field, mitigate the power that the local populace has at the ballot box (ie, institute a simple majority on school related issues rather than the current super majority system) oh, and did I mention, more funding.

Repair, replace and upgrade infrastructure instead of trying to get by on the cheap. More equitable funding between schools in rural, urban and suburban districts. More broad ranging assessments for our teachers and schools. Public awareness of what is actually happening in our schools and with our children. Oh, once again, more funding.

And that is just a start.

[LWolf]

55. Testing IS the abomination that we have now.

What is my solution to WHAT, exactly?

I've offered up solutions for school reforms over and over at DU and in real life. Here's a recent thread with ideas from many DUers, including a link to mine:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7368380#7368524

[defendandprotect]

9. This bears re-reading . . . only quickly scanned it -- but important subject . . .

Seems to me "racism" was the first card played against public education --

Then $$$ -- tho I've read that 50% of the Federal Education budget was hidden money for the CIA!

For a long time it's been suggested by the right wing that teachers are evil~!

And certainly their unions!!

Amazing how quickly people pick up and believe this right wing propaganda --!!

Not to mention the public schools shunning of that great one male "god" in the sky!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Question:

If you close schools, you get to throw tenure and union rules under the bus.

Who is claiming this? NY Schools are AFT and so am I. We have very strict language in our contract that does NOT allow tenure or union rules to be thrown under any bus when schools are closed. I would bet NY teachers have something similar in their contract, especially since we are in the same union.

So Mad, I am calling bullshit on that statement. :)

[madfloridian]

18. Please note that I posted it was a "comment".

Not by me by someone else.

We will have to see how things happen. Time will tell.

I am glad I am retired.

One question: Do the charter schools hire all your teachers when the school is closed? Do they honor the contracts?

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. I am in a large district, not as large as NY, but large

and we generally have spots for displaced teachers when we close schools. I would imagine the same is true of NY.

If there are no spots, seniority is respected. It's in our contract and we've not had problems with getting the district to follow the rules. We have a binding contract and our district knows we will take them to court if they don't honor our contract.

I have no idea if our area charters hire our laid off teachers. I don't personally know of any teachers who have been laid off and then hired by a charter but I can't say it has never happened - we have so many charters here.

[madfloridian]

19. Question: Do you approve of what Arne did toward unions..

in NY and CA? Do you think they fought back enough?

Do you think he was right in setting up confrontations with unions in those states?

And others since?

"Legislatures in New York, California and some other states have enacted laws that limit, to one degree or another, use of student achievement data in teacher performance evaluations. Both national teachers’ unions oppose the use of student testing data to evaluate individual teachers, arguing in part that students are often taught by several teachers and that teacher evaluations should be based on several measures of performance, not just test scores.

“This is poking teachers’ unions straight in the eye,” Mike Petrilli, a vice president of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, a research group that studies education policy, said of the proposed fund eligibility requirement dealing with student data."

Did the schools cave or did the DOE cave?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. I absolutely do not approve

It's not a question of whether the schools or the DOE caved. The state legislatures passed laws.

[salin]

24. This is so wrong - on so many levels.

My experience with a few large and very poor performing urban districts, where the performance esp at the upper grade levels have remained mind-numbingly poor (1/3 of entering freshman graduating in 4 years - holding steady over nearly two decades) - and watching the dysfunction at the district level that seems to do little to change leaves me open to the idea of closing the consistently lowest performing schools. I do not believe that a cookie cutter replacement school is the answer (and have grave concerns about the current approach). I have seen some success in a different large urban district with reconstituting schools.

All of that said - if the tool of closing is being used for other agendas (and certainly if some being closed are not perpetually poorly performing schools) I fear for the results. No redress for those students mired in the schools that really are horrendous (and I have worked with some - but they are really very, very few and far between except in a very few places in this country such as the two districts I originally mentioned) remain in place. Meanwhile the replacement schools may be protected in a way (ala have to demonstrate that our agenda is the right one - can't admit new failures) that allow performance to devolve down to the level of the poorest performing schools that were left in place.

Closing schools that are seriously underserving their students should be on the table. Other efforts have not changed the performance of these schools and these kids futures are jeopardized. The first big problem is that a very broad brush is being used to paint many schools that are not abysmal into that fate, for the most part schools are not failing in the way the rhetoric is making it appear to the public. The second big problem, given some of the "new schools" (be they charter or EMO/private management as was done early in the decade in Philly) are not necessarily better than the schools being replaced and some are worse - thus what is the point except transferring money out of the system?

Sadly the public does not have the stomache for what it would take to improve the poorest performing schools/districts. Longer days, longer years, more instructional support - all which would require much higher pay (for longer days and years) and more pay (per more instructional support) just to start. The infusion of dollars needed - would require a much greater public (tax) commitment.

[madfloridian]

32. Just think about it. "The test" that decides it all is formed privately, scored privately

and a parent needs a court order to see the test if they suspect their child's test score is not correct. In Florida that court order is hard to come by.

Soon that privately formed and scored test will be the thing that gets more public schools closed, and more charter schools opened.

And soon we will see if private companies out for profit know better how to run schools that counties and states....and educators.

Time will tell, but then it will be too late to go back.

[shopgreen]

41. I score these tests for a private company. Most are teachers working

in the evening or retired teachers. They are a good group to work with.

[madfloridian]

42. I have concerns about the formation and scoring.

You may work with a group of teachers you respect. However not all grading is done that way. Before I retired I had to deal with parents and children and test scores. The secrecy is not a good thing.

It has become an industry, an unregulated one.

That is what they are trying to make the schools...an unregulated industry.

The schools are being privatized, no one especially cares anymore.

[tonysam]

47. Of course not, when you've got people pretending they are "experts"

on other cultures badmouthing public education here, and people like me KNOWING these people are full of shit. It's right out of Bill Bennett's fraudulent "At Nation at Risk."

[shopgreen]

56. Yes, it is a huge

industry--including the scoring aspect of it. And the textbooks--Bush relatives is another sore spot for me. And I was sad to see Kennedy push for NCLB-that is another issue.
To tell you the truth, I put off working for them but the income is necessary as I am not able to do running around any more.
And it is secret-everything we do is overlooked by supervisors. We are not allowed to talk of anything outside the work space.