Full Body Scans at the Airports. I thought they were optional.

[The Backlash Cometh]

My daughter was traveling alone and she said she was selected from the line to go in for the scanning. I'm going to do some research on the net, but I was hoping someone on DU already had an answer.

[gateley]

1. Wow. What airport? I had no idea they were already in place.

How old is she? What did she say about it?

I'm pretty upset reading this -- I can imagine how you and she feel!

Hoping somebody comes along with the answer. Although, I think the rules, such as they were, may have changed since December 25.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Denver airport

And she's 20.

I think my family is on some watch list. We NEVER travel without something weird happening. Either we get selected for the searches or our luggage never arrives at our destination. And now we're going to have to deal with the utmost invasive searches.

Frankly, I think dark skinned people need to start making an issue out of this, not to override the practice, but to make a point. Because some day the shoe will be on the other foot, and when that happens and they start profiling Timothy McVeigh look-alikes, I don't want them whining the way they usually do. If we have to endure being treated like second class citizens, then they damn well should too.

This shit just wears a person out.

[gateley]

7. I'm so sorry that happened, and I would agree that dark skinned people

will get the lion's share of scrutiny, as always. :grr:

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. Michael Chertoff is invested in these damn things!

"Mr. Chertoff should not be allowed to abuse the trust the public has placed in him as a former public servant to privately gain from the sale of full-body scanners under the pretense that the scanners would have detected this particular type of explosive."

Kate Hanni, FlyersRights

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/full-body-scanner-lobby-michael-chertoff-rapiscan-2552674.html

[HipChick]

31. Even Italians?

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. The deeper you go into the red states,

the more anyone with even a hint of tanned skin looks like a terrorist.

[rustydog]

2. Irradiating peopel out of fear

I can't go to the hospital and demand an x-ray, CT or MRI. It takes a doctor's order, but the airlines can x-ray me because Bush sold Americans on fear and there are millions of dollars to be made selling x-ray machines to airports across the country.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Great. She was exposed to radiation.

"Other experts have found that the radiation levels from one scan alone can be enough to produce a cancer tumor in one of every 1,200 people. For people that have an annual scan or frequent flyers that undergo routine full body airport scanning, the levels of radiation exposure can be very dangerous and risky. When used for diagnostic purposes, a full body scan is undeniably beneficial, but when used for airport security reasons, the line becomes blurred by controversy. Furthermore, the American Cancer Society, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Food and Drug Administration and the American College of Radiology strongly advise against using full body scanning for reasons other than medical purposes."

http://www.steadyhealth.com/articles/Are_Full_Body_Airport_Scanners_Harmful__a1137.html

[HipChick]

32. She was exposed to much more radiation while she was in flight

[The Backlash Cometh]

37. It's the accumulation that we're looking at.

Besides, I found another source which made those other articles appear like Pollyanna. Which one is right? I don't think that some of us should have to develop cancer in order to find out.

[Doremus]

3. They've had them in place for awhile now in a handful of US airports.

I remember the outcry when they were deployed. Might have been a couple of years ago.

[virgogal]

4. If they were optional they would be of no use. I'd never do it.

[paulsby]

8. they are generally optional WITH the option

of having a pat down instead of the scan.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Is there a law she can recite?

If people like us resist in any way, we'll just get grounded.

[itsrobert]

14. Yes it is optional

You can fly or not fly.

But I don't think the answer you want.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Well, considering that this may have an impact on the flight industry...

I'm guessing it will last for about a year or two, or when the rise of cancer is noticed.

[paulsby]

16. no

the protocol for the airports that install the bodyscan is this

you can get the bodyscan

OR

opt out and get a pat down

the third option is to not fly.

there is no law i am aware of . there is a 4th amendment prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures, but neither the scan or the pat down has been deemed "unreasonable" in regards to a screening procedure for air travel.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. I'm okay with the pat down,

In fact, they've patted me down before. Got right into the boob. And that was years ago.

I tell you, I fit their damn profile and will be very impacted by this. I wonder how many times Chertoff has to submit himself to this damn thing.

[Tommy_J]

33. Expect to be punished for taking the option

When I have done this I was escorted to a glass booth and made to wait until a TSA employee was good and ready to perform the frisking. The pat down itself was a major production. I had to show him the contents of my wallet item by item. The pat down was pretty invasive, if you get my drift.

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. If this happened to you, you should complain:

http://www.tsa.gov/contact/index.shtm

Look at the options that they give. I think they know that some of their people are going too far.

[gateley]

9. Good point. nt

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYC_SKP]

10. TSA: "These technologies are optional for all passengers."...

From the TSA Website:

Protecting Passenger Privacy

* Strict privacy safeguards are built into the foundation of TSA’s use of advanced imaging technology to protect passenger privacy and ensure anonymity.
* The officer who assists the passenger never sees the image the technology produces.
* The officer who views the image is remotely located, in a secure resolution room and never sees the passenger.
* To further protect passenger privacy, millimeter wave technology blurs all facial features and backscatter has an algorithm applied to the entire image.
* The two officers communicate via wireless headset. Once the remotely located officer determines threat items are not present, that officer communicates wirelessly to the officer assisting the passenger. The passenger may then continue through the security process.
* This state-of-the-art technology cannot store, print, transmit or save the image. In fact, all machines are delivered to airports with these functions disabled.
* Officers evaluating images are not permitted to take cameras, cell phones or photo-enabled devices into the resolution room.
* Each image is automatically deleted from the system after it is cleared by the remotely located security officer.

What are my Options?

* These technologies are optional for all passengers.
* Passengers who do not wish to utilize this screening receive an equal level of screening and undergo a pat-down procedure.
* Multiple signs informing passengers about the technology, including sample images, are displayed in plain sight at the security checkpoints, in front of the advanced imaging units.
* Many passengers prefer advanced imaging technology. In fact, over 98 percent of passengers who encounter this technology during TSA pilots prefer it over other screening options.
* Additionally, passengers with joint replacements or other medical devices that would regularly alarm a metal detector often prefer this technology because it is quicker and less-invasive than a pat down.

Where It Is

* Albuquerque International Sunport Airport (Primary)
* Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (Secondary)
* Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport (Secondary)
* Denver International Airport (Secondary)
* Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (Secondary)
* Detroit Metro Airport (Secondary)
* Indianapolis International Airport (Secondary)
* Jacksonville International Airport (Secondary)
* McCarran International Airport (Primary)
* Los Angeles International Airport (Secondary)
* Miami International Airport (Primary)
* Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (Secondary)
* Raleigh-Durham International Airport (Secondary)
* Richmond International Airport (Secondary)
* Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (Secondary)
* San Francisco International Airport (Primary)
* Salt Lake City International Airport (Primary)
* Tampa International Airport (Secondary)
* Tulsa International Airport (Primary)

http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/imaging_technology.shtm

:patriot:

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. They never gave her an option.

Bastards!

[paulsby]

18. yes, optional--- it's the scan OR a pat-down

those are the options.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. They should verbally have to say it, like the Miranda law,

instead of taking advantage of young people who still haven't figured out how unethical this world is.

[paulsby]

29. makes sense to me nt

[Gormy Cuss]

24. I hate it when "optional" refers to a Hobson's choice.

At SFO it's only the international terminal that has the body scanners and when I was there they made no effort to inform anyone that there was an option to be felt up/patted down instead. In fact it was only when I balked at going through the scanner that I was told anything about the 'option.' Even then, the person who did the pat down asked me in an accusatory voice why I didn't want to go through the scanner.

Yeah, this is for our safety. Baloney.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Somebody needs to notify the ACLU.

Because this abuse is exactly what people envisioned. And it's happening on Barack's watch.

[Gormy Cuss]

28. The ACLU is on it. What we need is for PEOPLE to just say no

and to make it clear to elected officials that this sort of privacy invasion is unacceptable.

http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/see-through-body-scanners

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. Great website.

I have my doubts about that one precaution where the screener is in another room. Gee, wouldn't that mean he wouldn't be exposed to all that radiation? To whose benefit would that be?

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. I found a complaint form for tsa

http://www.tsa.gov/contact/index.shtm

You should tell them of your experience.

[PDJane]

17. They've been ordered here, too,

And one of the places they will be deployed is Toronto. I have this odd belief that, since we have a really common name, and my son gets stopped for questioning every time he heads stateside, we are on some watch list too. The last time I went, they apparently thought I was sneaking into Texas to work, for some reason. Can't imagine why I'd want to do that, but....

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Maybe it's time to get the ACLU involved.

I'm going to start documenting the "coincidences."

[Posteritatis]

35. I wonder how optional they won't be here

I'd heard noises of them being mandatory for everyone, but of course the things haven't been installed yet, so..

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. I'm just looking at the practical aspects of this thing.

For some of us, there is no such thing as a random selection. We know we're going to get picked. And if we don't get picked, something weird usually happens in transit, like our luggage doesn't make it on the flight. So, if every fucking prejudicial employee decides to pick us out of a line every other time we travel, wouldn't you call that excessive? Wouldn't that discourage us from traveling? And if enough of us dark-skinned people stop traveling because we decide that three full body scans a year is enough, wouldn't that have an impact on the airline business?

[Posteritatis]

41. I've gotten every time I've gotten on a plane; it's certainly discouraging me from travel.. (nt)

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. The only break I got from these inspections was a trick that one

of the black inspectors told me when he realized that I had been "randomly" picked so many times, and that I would be traveling back and forth to the same airport because I was helping out with my dad after my mother died. He said that I should become a member of one of the airline's frequent fliers. From then on, I no longer triggered their profile when I flew into that airport.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. The TSA guy selected me for additional screening but told me it was optional

What I didn't get was why he still did the full body pat down when I consented to the body scanner.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. That IS weird.

Perfect job for a perv.

[aikoaiko]

27. This is why I still enjoy using my small town airport to enter the system.

No hassles. No pushy, overworked TSA. Of course, I have to pay for the extra leg to ATL, but it sounds like money well spent.


Of course, these technologies will come to Hilton Head/Savannah eventually.

[HipChick]

34. She was selected for second screening

and didn't ask if it was optional? She should have asked.I've always been told there were optional, and have been passing through a body scanner for 6 months on a weekly basis

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. She didn't know.

The kid has been sweating over college books for the last four months. She didn't even know what the hip movies were when she came home for Christmas!

[Posteritatis]

42. There's probably a small dose of "don't even think of mouthing off" there

I can see people being worried about getting in trouble for merely asking that sort of thing given how draconian airports are these days.

[NYC_SKP]

45. The Problem is, of course, that they are under no obligation to explain that it's Optional.

Like so many other authority-citizen interactions, the authorities don't necessarily explain the citizen's rights and choices.

Too many of us assume that we must automatically comply with everything we're asked to do.

Others among us fear that if we don't we'll attract more suspicion.

"Do you mind if we search your car, Ma'am?" usually results in an affirmative reply, yet there is no reason to comply.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Yes, but dark-skinned people are going to be increasingly impacted by this.

If the TSA wants to protect their right to take these extreme measures, they should not abuse the process and make a clear case for the ACLU.

Frankly, I think that by profiling people the United States Of America is clearling sending out a signal that they don't want dark-skinned people to fly in airlines.