"No discrimination against pre-existing conditions" in health care bill could be out the window

[Karmadillo]

http://www.correntewire.com/no_discrimination_against_pre_existing_conditions_health_care_bill_could_be_out_window

From the Nation:

Taken at face value, Senator John Ensign's amendment which was included in the final Senate healthcare bill sounds pretty decent: by meeting "wellness" standards people can receive discounts on their employer-based healthcare premiums. Stop smoking--pay less. Hit a certain weight--pay less. Meet a cholesterol target--you get the idea.

Dems probably should have stopped and realized since the amendment was offered by Ensign it probably wasn't motivated by "wellness" at heart.

In fact, it allows premiums to be raised from current levels, and then "discounts" would reduce the premiums to current rates. People who don't meet the insurance companies' targets could pay up to 30 percent more for coverage, roughly $4000 based on the average cost of family coverage. The amount could increase to 50 percent which is over $6,600 for a family.

There is also the problem that this is biased against people with a genetic predisposition to high blood sugar, hypertension, high cholesterol, being overweight and a host of other often hereditary conditions. It's also biased against a lower-income person working two to three jobs to pay the bills, who has to stop and chow down some fast food between jobs rather than get to the gym where he or she can't afford a membership anyway. It's even biased against communities that don't have grocery stores where they can find fresh fruits and vegetables.

So what does this all mean? Remember a central promise of healthcare reform--even the watered down version--how people with preexisting conditions weren't supposed to be denied coverage or forced to pay more for their insurance? That all sounded pretty good, right? Well, guess again.

<...>Ultimately it's Democrats, not Senator Ensign, who bear the responsibility for the inclusion of this insane provision. (And apparently Chairman Max Baucus spoke against this amendment in Committee before he voted for it in "the spirit of bipartisanship"--thanks again, Max.) Now is the moment to contact your legislators and tell them to rid the final healthcare bill of this gift to insurance--found in Section 2705 of the Senate bill.

[endless october]

1. it's hard to imagine that the health insurance bailout bill could be any more useless.

time to start over. this bill is shit.

[jtrockville]

27. Useless? Au contraire!

This bill is the biggest boon the health insurance industry ever saw. I doubt THEY consider it useless.

As far as moving us toward a nation that provides health CARE for everyone... it's a bust.

[havocmom]

35. And any boon to insurance industry is a boon to wall street

Insurance companies do not leave the money in coffee cans in their offices. The mandate is money laundering for payments forced from working people to Wall Street.

Wall Street didn't get its paws on the Social Security withholdings from everyone's pay checks, and it floundered. This is just a round-about way to give them what almost amounts to payroll deductions. Force all people to buy a product from corporations pretty much same as taking a chunk out of pay checks and funneling it to corporations.

The corporations are using the government as their bag men/leg breakers. Why don't the teabaggers throw some fits about that little bit of taxation without representation?

[TheEuclideanOne]

40. Wow

Just..... wow. WTF is wrong with democrats?!?!?!? How is it that we are we capabable of failing on such a grandiose level? The Repbulicans, fighting for things that are not in the peoples best interest always get what they want. They even show the people how it will hurt them and get the people to support them on it.

[NorthCarolina]

60. The blame lies with the DLC Democrats who want what the GOP wants

when it comes to any kind of health care reform. A pro-Corporate plan that leaves the middle class to foot the bill.

[abluelady]

2. I Have A Different Problem With It

Why should a person who is unhealthy be less worthy of decent health care costs. Imagine of Dr. Salk, who invented the polio vaccine had loved cheeseburgers! Do we define a person' value by their habits?

[Hello_Kitty]

4. That's the whole problem with having cost drive health care policy

Providing decent, universal coverage to everyone could end up costing more in the long run (though it probably wouldn't). It would still be a good thing to do.

[abluelady]

18. I am Convinced That

Universal Health Care would end up costing less than any of the propositions being talked about now.
It’s a shame more people don’t see it that way.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Every single stipulation like the one in the OP raises costs, at least initially

for both consumers and insurers because of the time and effort need to monitor such a clause.
I'm with you. I think that a single payer system would be cheaper than what's on the table now.

[dorkulon]

42. Single payer would be much cheaper and everyone knows it.

These aren't mistakes; they're swindles.

[Lorien]

70. Well, considering that the Nations that have Universal Health Care spend HALF

per person on health care (sometimes less) while our system ranks #27th globally, I'd say that you have a good reason to be convinced.

[SoCalDem]

10. Healthcare has to be "macro" not "micro"

When groups can be pitted against each other, we've got nothing but problems ahead.

True health care reform accepts people as they are NOW, tends to their needs, and as it flourishes and diseases are caught earlier...over time, the public becomes healthier.

[rurallib]

14. divide and conquer. That GOP strategy that always seems to work

[liberation]

63. Agreed, everyone does better when every one does better...

... except those who only profit from everyone else not doing better.

If we think about it, our government is actually fighting to protect the interests of those who profit from everyone not doing better... rather than doing their public duty towards the common good. I don't think many people realize that if indeed that is the case, that is basically one of the symptoms of what could be defined as a "failed state." When a government is actively defending corporate interests in detriment of the interests of its citizens one could make a case that both state and corporations are operating in collusion, which is one of the definitions of corporatism (nee fascism).

This is very troubling, regardless of how much window dressing this administration tries to spin...

[valerief]

3. Maybe discounts should be given for 'moral' behavior. You know, don't cheat on your spouse, get a

discount! Don't lie to the public, get a discount! Don't take bribes, get a discount!

Ensign would have to pay pretty high premiums.

[Harry Monroe]

47. Au Contraire!! Perhaps we should peg the salaries of the members of Congress to "moral" behavior

Set the starting salary at the average American's yearly wage. Then if you don't cheat on your spouse, you get a "bonus", don't take bribes, get a "bonus", don't lie to the American people, get a "bonus", work FOR the American people and don't engage in partisan bickering and obstructionism, get a "bonus"! And on and on. I would wager ALL members of Congress, especially Republicans, would either change their ways or live on the borderline of poverty. It may be the best way to change their behavior!!

[undergroundnomore]

86. I have a feeling right now

there would be a lot of Senators and Congressmen not being PAID at all if this were the standard.

With crap like this they are NOT working for the American people. They seem to be working for the insurance companies and OH by the way I just heard about NEW HUGE bonuses that the investment companies we bailed out are doling out.

Where is the moral outrage from the Senate and the House

Maybe I did get up on the wrong side of the bed. Then again I was up until late with my father-in-law. He was refusing to take his meds and asking me where his wife was. (She died about five years ago and I had provided hospice care for her.) So maybe I'm tired and maybe this is all a bad dream. When I get home from work (thank God I have a job) I will take a nap and it will all be better. Won't it?

[Harry Monroe]

87. Undergroundnomore, if there's a heaven, there is certainly a place for you there!!

My dad and his two sisters take turns caring for my 102 year old grandmother with Altzheimer's. She spends a week at a time at each house and it is a handful, so I have at least a little inkling of what you're going through. And I know enough to know that what you're doing is a beautiful thing. Bless you!!

[stray cat]

5. then the mandate doesn't make sense - however it may work for those against a mandate

[Warpy]

6. Watch those weasel words

We don't know what's going to be in the final bill, whether or not it's just going to be a screw job or if it will actually contain enough of a first step toward reform that it can be built on.

I'm withholding judgment until the meeting breaks up, the closed doors are opened, and the damned thing is finally posted.

[Raineyb]

19. Senator Ensign put in this bit. Do you really expect anything decent from it? n/t

[Warpy]

21. I can't imagine anything a citizen hater like Ensign puts in

would stay in. After all, he's not going to vote for this thing even if he writes the whole thing.

Wait for the final copy. Then we can take to the streets with torches and pitchforks as necessary.

[TheKentuckian]

68. Thats very optimistic. VERY.

[natrat]

50. withold judgement all you want

but think about it, everything these fuckers have done in recent history has been a scam so the time has past where you can give them the benefit of the doubt.

[liberation]

64. Exactly! It is funny how those who have been always right are being told to "shut it" while...

... those who have been perennially wrong and have a track record of utter hubris get to get undisputed "benefit of the doubt."


A disengaged apathetic citizenry is one of the main reasons why we are in the mess we are in as a country and society. And Americans have become so monumentally mediocre, that some of them think that publicly admitting to such disengagement from the process as the "epitome" of democratic behavior and be all proud about it. LOL.

[laughingliberal]

52. We have been 'waiting for the final bill' at each step & at each step it actually got worse

At this point, I see all the bad stuff staying in and I don't believe the House will be able to push any of their better proposals. I don't think there's any choice but to wait and see (and keep writing, calling, emailing) but if any changes get made from the Senate bill I'll be surprised.

[Mark D.]

66. Just Wait?

Then it will be too late. What makes you think they'll roll out a real public option & subsidies that will not only help the dirt poor but working poor who aren't quite dirt poor, and real controls on the abuses of insurers? I don't see that happening. They slip a little bit of real reforms out at every turn. Affordable public option goes to non-affordable. Ok, get rid of it, we have a Medicare buy in over 55. Nope. Gone. We already knew the 'pre-existing condition penalty' was too low and could be skirted (it would cost insurers less to pay a fine than insure folks who would actually use their insurance a lot). So that goes. What's left is a mandate with a few tokens attached Democrats campaign on as 'real reform'. A hand-out to insurers, and the GOP too who can campaign on Democrats as theives who force money from you to buy insurnace, or in fines, or taxes you have to pay on your employer-provided insurance benefits too.

Without at least a very affordable, and generously subsidized public option and/or Medicare buy-in, I see no reason to support what's left of this self-pruning bare tree of reform. I know enough about it that we won't get that. There will no golden hope for us hiding behind closed doors we have to just 'wait until it's done' to see. The Presidents proposal lost us stuff, the House plan lost more, added draconian anti-choice measures, the Senate took those out, no, added them back in, and took even more of what we wanted out. Dean was against it, well-he said it can be fixed when they're merged. Now we hear folks saying just wait until it is about to be signed into the law, already knowing the President doesn't care if it includes a true and affordable public option, real subsidies, or protection for pre-existing conditions. He'd backed off of everything else. But still, witholding any judgements until we cross the Rubicon?

[laughingliberal]

74. +1000 nt

[TheEuclideanOne]

72. You should be a Congressman. You would fit in perfectly.

It is just that naive attitude that has gotten us to the point of where we are right now. I am sure that if the bill is signed with the worst case scenario and absolutely nothing but gifts to the insurance industry that you will be saying to yourself "I am going to withhold judgement. Maybe next year things will improve"

[Warpy]

79. I'm far too honest to be a Congressman

and it's that honesty that causes me to say I don't know what's in the final bill and neither do you.

All we have are rumors.

[Posteritatis]

7. The preexisting condition part was designed to be repealed anyway

I never really expected that part to survive the bill, and if it did, I figured the idea would be to rider a repeal of it sometime in the next few years anyway.

[laughingliberal]

55. Right. And the inclusion of a loophole to continue to allow rescissions actually makes it

advantageous for them to see policies to those with preexisting conditions. Collect premiums for a while, then trump up a 'fraud' charge as soon as the patient needs expensive treatment and cancel their policy.

[Marr]

8. So basically, this thing is just a massive hand-out to insurance companies, and a fine on

union members.

It's as if these people think government is just the enforcement arm of big business.

[Fumesucker]

12. Umm.. It has been since 1980, at least. n/t

[Marr]

22. Yeah, I kind of had an odd feeling typing that.

"It's as if the sky is blue or something".

I think it's been that way for a very long time as well-- from the beginning, in fact. But the severity changes, and right now it seems way, way over the top.

[Blasphemer]

9. The insurance lobby is mehtodically getting anything that hurts them stripped from the final bill.nt

[Raven]

11. And just how are the insurance companies going to know if I'm

eating healthy, exercising and not smoking? Are they gonna spy on me? Mandate blood tests?

[Cleita]

15. No they will do what they always do, deny claims and coverages because

your illness might be because of life style choices, and your premiums will go up if you get sick and actually need health care if you want to keep your insurance.

[fleabert]

41. yes.

unless you are on a group plan, you have to have a blood test before getting health insurance. they screen for drugs, sugar, nicotine, and all the other stuff that tells them what your lifestyle and genetics may entail. And if your answers on your application don't match the results= denied. they also get a full accounting of every single dr. visit you have had, and can screen every word your dr. has ever written down when you visited. so if you were honest with the dr., better be honest on the app.

[laughingliberal]

57. Many insurance companies have mandated blood tests for nicotine for years

My brother had a policy through his employer back in the early 90's that just about doubled his employer sponsored premium (the difference paid out of his pocket) if they used tobacco. They drew blood on the employees. The hell, aside from the obvious, of this was even those using nicotine replacement products to try to quit would test positive and pay the higher premium. The other issue here is your employer will be allowed to order you into these 'wellness' programs. This was made possible by Bush's last minute executive order allowing employers access to your private health information. I would have expected a Democratic president to immediately reverse that order. It's a huge hit to privacy rights.

[Cleita]

13. I hate that wellness bullshit. It's just another way the insurance companies

could deny claims and coverage in the past. It shouldn't even be in this legislation. This whole health bill is a big travesty and slap in the face of every American who needs access to decent health care whether now or down the line. Thanks for nothing 111th Congress. I hope every night from now on when you go to sleep that the sugar plum fairies stomp you in the face over and over again for being sell outs.

[cui bono]

33. Do sugar plum fairies stomp hard?

:rofl:

Loved that line. :)

[anonymous171]

16. Fuck bipartisanship, fuck this "healthcare" bill, and fuck Max Baucus. nt

[girl gone mad]

17. It was never there in the first place.

Insurance companies could still claim fraud, which is precisely what the pre-existing condition clause is about in the first place. Of course insurers can still deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, otherwise those who couldn't get affordable coverage would simply remain uninsured and pay the fine until they became ill.

[laughingliberal]

58. It doesn't end rescissions. After you've paid premiums they can cancel you as soon as you need

some expensive treatement. The annual limits are still there, too.

[Odin2005]

23. Kill this fucking bill. Kill it now.

This is a disgrace.

[Kansas Wyatt]

34. +1

This is a fucking disgrace!

Anyone who believes the American People are going to actually get anything meaningful and helpful out of this HCR/DLC SHIT Bill is fucking delusional and has their head buried up their ass.

[2 Much Tribulation]

36. +1

[Rockholm]

51. +2

[blueworld]

24. Haven't we "malcontents" said this along along? Where's Krugman now? n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

25. He'll be along soon to tell us how "on balance this is a good thing". eom

[sabrina 1]

26. This kind of garbage, more discrimination, this time based

people's 'personal lifestyle' or worse, conditions they cannot help, should never be taken seriously at all when talking about the lives of a country's citizens. And it isn't, anywhere but here in the US.

We are talking about people's survival. Do you realize that?

If I see someone on the road who has been hit by a car, should I hesitate to do what is necessary to save his life, or should I do a quick check of his personal habits? 'Excuse me, sir, do you smoke?' 'How much overweight are you?' 'Btw, before I call for help, do you eat junk food, or too much sugar'?

Of course that happens now when someone goes to the ER. Time, sometimes critical time is wasted determining what 'method of payment' the person has.

In Europe, the first thing on the minds of everyone is 'let's save this person's, this human being's life'.

What a despicable, compassionless society this has become. And every new, stupid idea presented is actually considered rather than, as would happen in civilized societies, immediately slapped down with a reminder that people are not objects or commodities, they are HUMAN BEINGS!

I'm seriously thinking that the best thing to do is to try to find a country where MONEY is not GOD as it seems to be getting worse not better here.

[sendero]

28. Surprise, surprise, surprise..

... Real Change, Real Reform, yeah right, real bullshit.

[Catshrink]

29. Then what's the point?

[WeCanWorkItOut]

30. I see your point. But what can we do about obesity, and other problems?

I personally think we should have longer vacations.
And more education, so people could
know how much damage they are doing to themselves
with unmanaged hypertension, high lipid levels,
and obesity (especially in the insulin resistant).
More after-hours clinics too.

But no one's talking about things like this.
And our obesity rate, in particular, is a serious problem.
It can lead to heart disease, stroke, diabetes,
blindness, kidney failure, higher rates of some cancers,
loss of limb, etc.

So what are we to do?
We can't keep throwing big chunks of GDP at the cardiologists,
and the owners of CT scanners and drug companies,
taking it away from education and other good uses.
And we simply get too sick and die too young.

[Hello_Kitty]

32. Nobody ever shamed an ounce of weight off another person

That's the problem with looking at things like obesity from a personal, and not systemic level. Plus, I'm fairly certain that stopping government policies like subsidizing the producers of HFCS and prioritizing auto-dependent communities would do a lot more to reduce obesity than lecturing people to eat better and exercise or punishing them with higher insurance rates.

[truedelphi]

31. Since there is increasing information from the Scientific

Community in places like Scandanavia, that high cholesterol can be caused by cell phone EMF's, this is really horrid. You do not have to even use cell phones to be affected - it can be dependent on where the local antennae array is located in relation to your living quarters.

I am not resposible for my cholesterol level. I eat far less cholesterol than others do, but ever since my rural community saw to it that a cell phone antennae array affects my neighborhood, I have high cholesterol.

[Zhade]

37. Only the woefully naive think this bill will HELP the average American.

NT!

[CoffeeCat]

38. I am to the point...where I believe...

...this bill is intended to bankrupt us and kill us off!

Anyone who believes this healthcare bill is positive, in any way, is living in a fool's paradise. It's
a disgusting, insulting piece of trash.

It allows the insurance companies to do whatever the hell they want to us. There have never been any
cost controls in this bill--EVER. They can charge us whatever they want. So yes--a family will
be covered. Doesn't that sound nice? But then they'll be asked to fork over $4k for a plan. Who
has $4k lying around?

I think people are going to revolt and refuse to participate.

Who is for this bill? Seriously? Republicans HATE it with a white-hot passion, and
the majority of Democrats hate it too. Look at the responses from DUers. I was a precinct
captain for Obama and I hate it.

How in the world is this going to work? Seriously.

[Lorien]

73. I haven't heard repugs object to it on policy grounds

I think that secretly they are rubbing their hands in glee over this bill. It does exactly what they want; boosts profits for investors, damages the Dems chances in November and kills poor people-yet they'll never have to take any of the blame for it.

[tango-tee]

39. By the time all is said and done,

the bill will be insurance companies' wet dream come true.

[Christa]

43. What a sham!

Toss it out the window, it is worthless.


:cry:

[secondwind]

44. The pre-existing condition benefit was the ONLY GOOD THING LEFT in that darn bill.

And you say they have AGREED to Ensign's amendment? There is no turning back?

Incredible.

[Tim01]

59. Exactly. This bill is now something BAD. nt

[liberation]

65. It is bad under normal chess rules, however under 3D neo-chess... it is actually a very good bill

you know, bills have a track record of becoming "better" with time... just like wine. Right?

So we should pass this thing, anything... even if it is horrible. There is some weird magical process in DC which improves bills, involves pixie dust from the ass of a pony unicorn (or something like that, as I said I am just but a feeble liberal, and as such my brain can't comprehend the complexity... thank goodness that Mr. Obama is so smart that he will work it out for us!)

Plus remember, if the bill is killed... Mr. Obama may look bad.

[Tim01]

78. "Plus remember, if the bill is killed... Mr. Obama may look bad."

You, know, I never one of his cheerleaders. But I was pretty hopeful for the environment, and ending stupid wars, and healthcare for a while, and gay rights. But I am getting farther and farther away from the cheerleader crowd all the time, rapidly.

[freddie mertz]

45. Thanks for posting this. I tried a few days ago but it failed to get attention.

This is the final nail in the coffin of this bill, or should be in the mind of any honest Democrat or progressive.

Thousands, maybe millions will be discriminated against under these provisions.

[laughingliberal]

61. Yeah, I've been raising the alarm about this provision for a couple of weeks

but just met with the same talking points about how 'much good this bill will do.' This is not only a way to gouge people further on premiums it is a huge hit to privacy rights.

[sui generis]

46. well duh. this was evident from the moment it was introduced

and discussed here some time ago. It still makes me see red -

There is only ONE reason someone would attempt to put this in the bill . . . and quite frankly it's because they are 100% in the pocket of the insurance companies.

In addition to a trillion dollar gimme, we're also undoing protections in one fell swoop that these companies have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the legislature attempting to bypass in each state.

Stop smoking? How do they monitor that? Oooohh, that's right, you have to take a blood test that checks for tobacco use. So they can afford to test you for tobacco but not for cancer.

This is the worst kind of evil - the kind that pretends to be for your own good.

[wordpix]

48. OK, that does it, and contacting my Sen. Lie-man won't help

:grr:

[paparush]

49. I've believed all along that the pre-existing conditions bone would be yanked away

at the last moment.

We are Charlie Brown to Big-Biz's Lucie. Hope is the football that keeps getting yanked away at the last moment.

[chimpymustgo]

53. I gave up after the Senate deal was passed.

[ChiciB1]

54. As Time Goes By AND I Know This Comment Will Be Controversial... BUT

it seems to me that Obama actually may not care at all if he's a one termer! I've seen posts here saying that many feel he feels this way. They've made comments that those close to him say that if being a "one-termer" is what will happen then he thinks he can go ahead and get done those things he feels important. And that those around him are actually working the way they are because of this.

Now, this is probably all just speculation by many people, but there is a grain of truth to this fact. If the bottom line is GREED, then what does it matter if he only serves one term? If the Big Banks, Insurance Companies, Big Pharma and all the rest of THE BIGGIES get what they want, then Obama, his policies and those around him can walk away smiling, and with picket full of money!!

Given that Geithner has had previous ties to Henry Kissinger and Obama's mother and deals that go way back, would it be such a far stretch to think this could just be about money?

We've strayed so far away from what's "good for the people" that I really worry so much of the time if we aren't just really looking at this very thing!!

I WANT to bury my head in the sand and not come here to see all these posts because they only raise a person's stress level, but then I say I don't want to be blind sided!

"We The People" have NO cohesion and are becoming more and more divided, so any real REVOLT won't ever happen. We have NO VOICE these days... our Congress Critters certainly aren't listening and the "behind the scenes" shenanigans seem to be worse than ever! I KNOW deals have been made since forever, but the massive amount of deception feels all too overwhelming! In our throw away society we will probably see something much worse than the Great Depression and I fear that those at the top don't give a tinker's damn!

Sorry to sound so dire, but from what I'm seeing JUST FROM HCR, makes me feel very, very afraid! I fear for my children and their children, because as with many these days, they can't follow what's going on like many here because they are trying to keep their head above water by working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet!

JMHO! :scared:

[laughingliberal]

90. +1000

The most frightening thing about the whole mess is how blatant the selling out has become. They don't even try to hide it anymore. A lot of it is, as you say, so many are just trying to tread water and have no time to figure out what's really going on. Those who do know have no power and anyone who gains a voice and tries to tell the truth is easily marginalized by the MSM. Even here those sounding an alarm are ridiculed and marginalized.

I often say, here, that Americans are fond of asking why the German people did not rise up against Hitler. We ask could no one see what was going on? The answer is there were those who saw it and they were trying to speak out. In that day, they were also marginalized and made to seem crazy and, eventually, it got to where they just killed them. In this day and time it is not necessary to outright kill the critics. The communications machine is quite capable of silencing their voices in other ways. If we don't turn back, soon, from the current path, I predict future generations in other countries will amuse themselves by asking each other how the American people could have let this happen and didn't anyone realize what was going on.

[Vinnie From Indy]

56. LOL!

Of course the "pre-existing" condition provisions would be watered down or removed. And, that is simply the first line of defense in this gargantuan "bait & switch" regarding healthcare. The second line of defense for insurance companies is simply making the process to get TREATMENT for a "pre-existing" condition so onerous and difficult that it they are effectively denying coverage.

It is frustrating to read so much complete nonsense and bullshit from those supporting this bill. It is as though they are in a trance and keep mindlessly repeating the phrases "pre-existing conditions will be covered" and "30 million uninsured will get coverage". LOL! These people are suckers, rubes, hayseeds and marks.

The politics of this bill were settled, for the most part, months ago. The strategy by the insurance companies and their allies in Congress, both Dem and GOP, was always to kill a true public option. Obama and many in the Senate simply gave lip service to the public option. The insurance companies rained down money on any and all in Washington. Favors were bought and futures were assured.

The next hilarious and predictable shoe to drop will be the reports in the near future that NOTHING has changed. People will still be dying at the current rate or higher from lack of treatment, insurance executives will still be getting paid tens of millions of dollars, costs will continue to skyrocket and politicians will still be receiving millions of dollars to get re-elected.

Our government has become a huge three card monte game played against the average American by the extremely wealthy and corporate interests.

[progressoid]

62. Well, color me shocked...NOT!

This turd of a bill is really stinking up the place.

[GreenMetalFlake]

67. "Reform," American $tyle. Pure evil all the way.

[TheKentuckian]

69. K&R I don't get the blindness nor the ability to self Jedi Mind Trick one's self into buying

this "reform" when every part of it is based on the same toxic dump that is dragging us down now while profit, the employer based system, and wealth are preserved at all possible costs.

Wake up!!!!!!

[swilton]

71. If they can botch the job with health care

can medicare and social security be far behind?

[watajob]

75. I have a related question ...

...What ever happened to "portability"? My wife is
stuck at a job 40 miles away from home based solely on the
fact they have decent, (not good but tolerable), health
insurance. I'd love to get her a job where I work, (right here
in town), but they have horrid insurance benefits. We could
deal with the lower pay but not the loss of insurance. So, I'm
guessing that dream died along with the public option, huh?

[laughingliberal]

76. Funny. No supporters of the bill showing up to defend this one

I've posted about this in online discussions for a couple of weeks and found no one able to defend it and not many who even know it's in there. That business of helping people with preexisting conditions is bunk. With the rescission loophole left in and the annual caps loophole left in and this people who buy privately or have employer sponsored benefits are screwed. Add in those who will see their benefits cut due to the 'cadillac tax' and the chance of 'affordable, quality' health care becomes a figment of everyone's imagination. I was skeptical of any improvement in the bill during conference but was hoping. I was not committed to the 'kill the bill' movement before conference. Now that we have seen all the worst measures are not only being kept but are being defended by the White House I can say it's time to kill this bill.

Let the health care crisis grow until the public outcry is huge. The insurance companies can not raise rates much higher than they are now without starting to realize a net loss. As more employers are forced to drop coverage we will see an uprising among that group that allowed our discussion to focus on working within the present system. Those large percentages of people who 'are happy with what they have,' will no longer be happy with what they have and we can begin anew with a discussion about what role we think profits should be playing in the health care system.

[totodeinhere]

77. There is nothing wrong with providing people with incentives to practice a healthier lifestyle.

One study after another has shown that such a tactic would go a long way toward controlling health care costs.

But having said that, I have no doubt that Ensign's amendment is a trojan horse with other more sinister goals in mind. He is clever enough to make it sound good because after all, who could argue with the goal of encouraging people to adapt a more healthy lifestyle? And it looks like the Dems in Congress might fall for it.

[DebbieCDC]

80. This bill stinks worse than a 3-day-old fish

throw it back -- KILL THE BILL

[donco6]

81. Are the cheerleaders all hiding in the BOG?

Wonder how they'll defend this latest move.

[undergroundnomore]

82. I'm sorry

I just don't understand the whole health care bill. I thought everyone was in agreement that health care needs to be FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIXED. I'm confused, maybe a little delusional.

I thought we were promised a public option. A REAL public option. Then it was explained that this was just my imagination.

Then I was told that this legislation would make health care more affordable and available to EVERYONE. Exactly how is that true when biased against people with a genetic predisposition to high blood sugar, hypertension, high cholesterol, being overweight and a host of other often hereditary conditions. It's also biased against a lower-income person working two to three jobs to pay the bills, who has to stop and chow down some fast food between jobs rather than get to the gym where he or she can't afford a membership anyway. It's even biased against communities that don't have grocery stores where they can find fresh fruits and vegetables.

Maybe these Senators would like to meet some of my student's who have family members who lost their jobs and their health insurance.

As some of you know I am working full time and taking care of my father-in-law as his health is declining. I can't imagine what would happen if he did not have some kind of insurance. I have a job but I could never have put my father-in-law on my insurance. When my husband lost his job I Thank God I had insurance that would cover us both. Sadly so many people out there have none.

It seems we call our senators and congressmen, we send them letters, we sign petitions and they are STILL going in the WRONG direction.

Instead of calling for them to hurry through with a bill for him to sign, Obama should demand they do it right and make sure that we really make sure we really do promote the general welfare and provide health insurance, real health insurance to everyone.

I'm sorry I'm getting so emotional. I just feel so helpless. I don't know what to do. I can't make sense of it all.

[amborin]

83. too late to REC, but prolly always were out window due to "fraud" issues

in California, state has had to drop its suits against Anthem Blue Cross for
recission (dropping) many patients' coverage due to "fraud," which is very broadly defined to favor dropping people's coverage

it's simply too costly for states to win lawsuits against major insurers, which is why it's a joke for states to police the insurers....it's tantamount to no policing

[krabigirl]

84. It's a trap!

Come on, if this is in the final bill, this is the nail in the coffin for Dems for years to come. People who are overweight or have some other "problem" (which could just be drinking more than one glass of wine per week) will be charged more because of this "reform bill," and they won't know that it was a Republican's gift to the insurance companies. They will just think it's the evil "socialists" who are teling them how to live their lives.

This is a perfect gift to insurance companies and to the Republican party. If the Dems don't get rid of this, they are done for and it would be their own fault. And people would elect Repukes who would do more of the same, etc...

[TheKentuckian]

85. BUMP because this couldn't be more important or ignored by the HopeSquad

but what do you expect from people that can only see premiums when discussing cost of care or fail to see that if the bill sucks ass that ONLY Democrats and "liberal idology" will take the blame.

If you're going to take 110% of the heat then you damn well better do what you really want to do. That's real political pragmatisim.

[Doctor_J]

88. So that pretty much means the new system is useless.

No improvement whatsoever.

[TheKentuckian]

89. Bump again