WIND TURBINES AND BIRDS: THE CUISINARTS OF THE SKIES?

[HuckleB]

http://skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/

"The main argument against wind turbines by environmentalists is that the spinning blades kill birds. When I heard this, I was skeptical.

Digging through the Intertubes, I found that it’s true. Each large, commercial wind turbine in the United States kills an average of about two birds per year. This varies a lot based on where the wind farm is. Some are right in bird migration paths, and some aren’t. But the average is about two per year per turbine. In 2001 there were 3,500 operational wind turbines in the U.S., for a grand total of 6,400 birds killed.

Sounds like a lot, I suppose. But I wanted to know how many birds died from other manmade causes. Here are those numbers (based on the most common annual estimates I found):

...

(It's an interesting list. Please go to the link: http://skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/ )

..."

-----------------------------


I'm not trying to be hard-hearted, but this does this bring some perspective to this issue.

Cheers...

[Touchdown]

1. Driving through Wyoming, I see nothing but blood splattered blades..

on the windfarms by I-80.Piles of dead birds just lay at the giant turbine's feet.

:sarcasm:

[HuckleB]

2. That's got to take your breath away.

Unlike the Tetons, I supppose.

;)

[NYC_SKP]

3. Window collisions: 1,000,000,000; Powerline collisions: 174,000,000...

Window collisions 1,000,000,000
Powerline collisions 174,000,000
Hunting 100,000,000
House cats 100,000,000
Pesticides 67,000,000
Automobile collisions 60,000,000
Communication towers 40,000,000
Oil extraction 1,000,000
Wind turbines 6,400

[givemebackmycountry]

4. House cats 100,000,000

Kitty kicks ass

[Tumbulu]

7. OK, but the wind turbines are responsible for killing raptors

not blue jays and finches and starlings and other birds lower on the food chain.

So, 6400 raptors is actually a big deal and I hope that the engineers can work to reduce the raptor casualties.

[HuckleB]

11. Link to prove your claim, please.

[The Straight Story]

5. I worked at Zond/Enron's wind energy farm in Tehachapi, CA

I think GE owns them now.

I have taken a few tours of the farm (was the computer geek there) and rarely saw dead birds. It DOES happen, but I also saw a bird fly into my school building when I was in elementary school.

If we don't go greener - those birds will have a much larger issue than turbines.

[juajen]

10. In the past couple of years, we have had two or three

who pound into our clerestory windows. We always go and check on them. If they're alive we guard them to keep the cats from cashing in; then, if they can fly they leave, if not, we bury them.

[Vinnie From Indy]

16. Yep!

Everyone's got make sacrifices!

If the world doesn't get a handle on burning fossil fuels, the birds will die in far greater numbers due to climate change.

Great title!

[endless october]

6. as an animal lover, i sympathize.

but we have to do something. i'm pro-nuke power, but that only goes so far.

wind is a great renewable. and i'm not against solar farms in the desert, either. given the choice, i'd put renewable power coast to coast, move away from imported energy, and increase our electrical grid exponentially.

[mattvermont]

8. A recent study in the NE suggests that Bats

are also quite susceptible to the turbines from rapid and significant barometric pressure drops within the blade field.

[flvegan]

9. It's good that these environmentalists are all vegan, what with their concerns.

How many chickens and turkeys are killed for food? How many battery hens die for eggs?

That said, couldn't these turbines be "enclosed" like the fan in your bedroom? Blah, blah "costs too much" aside, I mean?

[The Straight Story]

12. My take on that

Chickens/etc are bred on factory farms, birds are not.

Turbines are complex, though there are some ideas out there for some which are more like plane turbines (enclosed), which could offer more protection but the air intake section would still need to be open.

One of the designs we had there were called egg beaters (see image), looked like mixing bowls, but issues cropped up that caused them to physically fail.

Even some of the other designs you will see have the same problem (see second image)

Everything we do will have an impact on some species or others, we can work to minimize that of course but while doing so implementing the best we have now is better than doing nothing.

[flvegan]

14. So your take is that chickens aren't birds?

[The Straight Story]

18. No, my take is this:

We breed chickens for food, so they are a more controlled population. If a turbine were to kill some we would not really notice a drop in the population as we breed so many of them.

We don't breed CA Condors at the same rate.

So maybe those worried so much about certain birds can offset the losses they see by engaging in breeding programs.

A win-win.

[blogslut]

13. Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_axis_wind_turbine

[flvegan]

17. That wiki makes me feel stupid.

Lots of science for 11pm on a Sunday. Is it safe to say that the subject is much more bird safe?

[blogslut]

19. Most of them are

Do a Google image search for Vertical Axis Wind Turbine. There's a bunch of designs.

[The Straight Story]

21. Here is the key from that wiki:

"included the pulsatory torque that can be produced during each revolution and the huge bending moments on the blades"

Ever see one of those things snap?

The dynamics for them are vastly different than for 'traditional' turbines - and are just as dangerous to birds, but also are to those who have to inspect and work on them.

[Regret My New Name]

25. Dontcha hate it when that happens? You just want a quick crash course or summary from wikipedia.

Then you're like "Fuck! Math."

[1]

15. survival of the fittest and all, right? stupid birds...

[slampoet]

20. Less than two birds per year per turbine. By their OWN ADMISSION.

If you are concerned about that you are stupid enough to believe anything.

The average CAT kills more than 2 birds per year. So does the average car.

[Berry Cool]

22. The idea that wind turbines are "Cuisinarts of the skies" is absurd

to anyone who has actually seen one in action. The blades just don't spin that fast. Not even when they're really going.

From the way the "But they KILL BIRDS!" crowd screams about them, you'd think they were like gigantic high-speed electric fans on towers. They're not. As has been published on many charts, there are many things deadlier to birds than wind turbines.

[Regret My New Name]

23. You don't see many people actually complaining about this...

If they do, I'd always look for other reasons why they might be protesting (not in my backyard, aye?)

[HuckleB]

26. I've seen plenty of people complaining about it.

[Regret My New Name]

27. Really?

When I've said "you" I actually meant me. :P Not sure why I wrote it like that.. Oh yeah, I'm dumb.

I remember searching around for anti-wind arguments and I found relatively few... Most of the environmental groups don't seem to have it as an issue except in some rare cases.

[me b zola]

24. Another design

Mr Z showed me this one, says they're so quiet you could live within a block or two w/o noise polution:



http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.devicedaily.com/environment/flodesigns-revolutionary-wind-turbine-cheaper-and-more-efficient.html&h=283&w=436&sz=81&tbnid=iiEUasxfEeBC9M:&tbnh=82&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnew%2Bwind%2Bturbine%2Bdesign&hl=en&usg=__6bRcCNbJ0vT6BGqicgyysdhzUsY=&ei=h7FKS8OrJYfusQPb2-z1Dw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=6&ct=image&ved=0CCEQ9QEwBQ

[JCMach1]

28. That seems about on par with glass sliding doors...

Sounds funny, but about accurate.