Give me a reason to hope for my generation

[Juche]

I'm one of the oldest millennials (born in 1979). But I really do wonder what people born 1977-1993 are going to face.

-No net job creation in the last 10 years
-A government fully in the pocket of plutocrats
-Rapidly increasing education, healthcare and (possibly) real estate costs vs. stagnant wages
-Being on the hook for the national debt which went from about 1 trillion in 1980 to 12 and will probably go to 20 in a decade.
-A service sector economy of part time low wage jobs with no benefits
-Seeing the consequences of climate change hit
-Seeing the beginning of the crisis in medicare funding


I realize many generations before had it worse. The generation from 1910-1945 had it much worse. The first world war, the spanish flu, the great depression and world war 2 all within 30 years. Plus all in a world with less wealth, worse infrastructure and a worse safety net.

But I really do wonder about us and what is going to happen. Many of us can't break into the middle class (even the lower middle class). So what are the children of this generation supposed to do after another 30 years of plutocracy? That is a big reason I'm never having kids.

Almost everything wrong in my list comes down to money, which is sad.

[depakid]

1. You're still young enough to emigrate!

provided you have appropriate skills or education.

[Luciferous]

21. I keep telling my husband that we should move

he's a dual citizen (US/England) and I told him that if things get any worse here we should pack up the kids and leave. Unfortunately he's not sold on this plan yet :)

[Juche]

29. Go for it

Universal health care, a less corrupt government. England isn't perfect, but I'm sure it is better than the US.

[JCMach1]

43. Check England's economic situation before you jump into that...

It isn't too pretty at the moment...


Plus, it is looking like the Conservatives may be in power for awhile.

[Joe the Liberal]

38. I have actually made that one of my goals in life.....

This country isn't going anywhere and it is foolish to stick around on a sinking ship, there are better places elsewhere.

[iris27]

2. Born in 1982 here, same questions.

I and many of my friends are college-educated but stuck working retail or other service-sector jobs. When you pay your own way through school, unpaid internships are a luxury you can't afford, and then after graduation, no one wants to hire those without real-world experience. Forgoing kids here as well...those of my cohort who do have kids are struggling even more, with the majority of them receiving food stamps, WIC, medicaid, section 8, or some combination thereof.

[terrell9584]

3. The graduate degree is the new bachelors

Go to graduate school or go into the military/law enforcement.

The government still gives loans for graduate school.

[Hardrada]

5. That's sort of like the Prussian dictum that the Human Race

begins with the Second Lieutenant!

[XemaSab]

10. Not to people who are in default on their undergrad loans

:P

[terrell9584]

11. Deferments

You can defer undergrad loans for 5 years. I would advise most current students do that if they can. That or the military. If you're cunning enough you can get a cushy position as an officer where you'll sit at a desk all day and never see "real" combat duty.

[XemaSab]

12. I've been out of school for 7 years

I was doing okay on the student loans until I lost my job. They don't like it when you don't pay them for years on end.

[Luciferous]

22. I've been deferring my loans since October

but they still charge you a hell of a lot of interest while you are in deferment, so I would rather be able to find a job and pay them off. My husband has been pushing for me to apply for AFOCS and my in-laws are willing to giving me great recommendations, but I'm pretty adamant about not joining the military... although maybe as a last resort :shrug:

[Juche]

19. I don't want to do the military

Not that I detest the military, but there is something very machine like in its evil when the working class have no options but to join the military and fight wars designed to benefit the wealthy and powerful. It is like a neocon wet dream. Crush the working class until they join the military in droves.

As far as grad school, a masters in my field offers nothing over a bachelors with 1-2 years work experience (and I have 1 year work experience). And the PhD overqualifies you.

My personal situation isn't 'that' bad. I'm unemployed and live with my parents. But I have decent health, no kids, a bachelors in a scientific field, I know how to live frugally and I have more assets than debt (not by much though, but I am debt free technically).

But this isn't just about me. What about the people my age who have high school degrees, kids of their own, parents who can't help them and who are 40k in debt? What are they supposed to do? I have it pretty good by the standards of some people my age.

I was on craigslist not long ago looking at some 'wanted' ads, and saw a woman in a nearby college town saying she didn't have enough money for food. I have never lacked money for food, and probably never will. But I know what I'm going through, I can't imagine going through the same thing but not even being able to afford enough rice and spaghetti to make it for a few weeks (this was around christmas, when the local food pantries were not open). I offered to buy her some, but she said a woman in a nearby town bought and delivered $150 to her.

This is a societal problem. I'm not only looking to lift myself out of it (I do want that), but I want to be part of changing this system too.

I get despondent, but I don't think people will go their whole lives w/o confronting these problems. Five years ago I was apolitical. Now I am a leftist. I have no idea what the next 30 years of my life will bring.

But I think there is an undercurrent of rage and frustration that, once we find constructive outlets for, will really come out.

Hope can turn into despondency, but the second an option to do something shows up it usually comes right back. Look at Iran. Tons of voters were extremely despondent after all the reformers were disqualified in 2005. But they came right back and tried to vote in a reformer in 2009. When that didn't work, they took to the streets. Iran has had an endless string of despondency. The riots are just the latest. It was the fraudulent election before that, and the disqualifications in 2005 before that, and the failures of reform in the 90s before that.

Point is, in human history (especially contemporary history) I don't think you can keep people down forever. They get depressed and despondent, but that is usually temporary while they plot the next course of rebellion. Hope and anger don't go away. They go underground, but they come back when an outlet is provided. Even if it takes years.

One good thing that comes out of these struggles is there is less emphasis on individualistic one upmanship (bigger houses, bigger cars, etc) and more of a collective desire to make it through together. People sometimes seem to become less divided.

[terrell9584]

20. With a degree

You're automatically an officer. You automatically are on a higher rank as a newly minted 2nd Lt. than a long term Sgt.

The truth is too many millenials were college educated. There are many blue collar jobs available but most in our generation with degrees feel "too goddamned good" to do them. Rest assured, if I were able to go to grad school in a town with shipyards I'd be paying my way as a welder because there are still plenty of those jobs available in the hometown.


There was an overabundance of college education and an undersupply of people in blue collar fields and many blue collar fields, like repair work, can't be outsourced.


The number of college students will decline from the artificial high but there will still be a glut of them in the market. They will not accept reduced status. The only institution that can absorb them is the officer corps. I don't know what that means for the country but it is what it is.

[Luciferous]

24. My husband is a machinist and he keeps telling me that

maybe I should just come work with him because I would probably be better off. And actually, the beginning salary for machinists pays more than a lot of the entry level jobs I've seen for people with some bachelor degrees... I saw one job where the starting salary for an entry level position was 20,000! I agree with you that most people with a bachelor degree aren't going to be willing to take such a low paying job...

[Juche]

28. 20k isn't bad, especially in this economy

That is a living wage of about $10/hr. I have one year work experience in a job that paid about 30k a year. But I had no benefits and no job security. It was actually in the Quality control lab in a factory. There were tons of people in that factory who were college educated. People with degrees in business, chemistry, sociology, music, etc.

I know there is supposedly a shortage of people to work in jobs like electrician, welder, plumber, machinist, etc. I don't know if its true or not, but I have heard that.

Either way, I think 25-35k is a rough starting salary with a bachelor's degree (assuming you can find a job). I'm not opposed to working for less, but I do worry about not getting enough experience to stay in my field. It is more a question of work experience, not income.

If I get a job as a machinist, then the factory closes in 3 years then what happens? Are there other jobs in that field? I'm not opposed to working in it, but I thought manufacturing was being outsourced.

[kelly1mm]

25. No, with a degree you are not automatically an officer. You need

to go through OCS. Lots of enlisted have 2 and 4 year degrees. Some senior enlisted have MA's. The only exceptions to this are for the Jag Corps (attorneys) and some medical fields. Even then you have to go through mini OCS.

[taught_me_patience]

33. May I ask: Where do you live?

[Tunkamerica]

26. I think it depends on which field you're in or want to be in.

I read something yesterday that basically said the cost-to-benefit ratio of a humanities graduate degree argues against it.

[closeupready]

4. If you look at Rockefeller or Carnegie or Ray Kroc or even Bill Gates,

these are all people who came from humble backgrounds - Rockefeller was an accountant from Cincinnati, I believe. Kroc dropped out of high school, Gates from college.

Now don't think that I'm one of those who tell everyone who is underpaid or overworked or suffering that "you can get rich just like Ray Kroc!", but you asked for some kind of hopeful advice, and every time I think I have it bad, thinking about the lives of these people and others who suffered in their younger days inspires me to actually do something about my circumstances rather than wallow in sadness (which we all do, but is unhealthy after too long).

Cheers. :hi:

[Hardrada]

6. Gates came from a wealthy background. Not the others though.

Not Sam Walton either.

[closeupready]

13. Thanks for the correction.

:)

[Juche]

8. The problems are societal though

That is my concern. Even if I get rich and make $10 million, that doesn't change all the problems an entire generation is going to face. It just means I rose above it. It is kindof like the person born in the ghetto who grows up to become an athlete or musician. It is good for him, but the structural problems are still there and still swallowing most people in that society.

Our economy has to be restructured from the bottom up.

[closeupready]

14. Yeah, it is discouraging.

I wish I knew the answer. I've been through recessions before - they do end, but it can take a lot of time. Some advice someone gave to me during GHWB's recession, "even during recessions people are hiring; it's not that there's no money, it's that the people with money aren't spending it."

[XemaSab]

7. I was born in 1977

People from my cohort are starting to worry about having families, but none of my friends has *any* job security.

We're all in our early 30's, but careerwise we're in a position that our parents were in in their mid-20's.

We're all out of work, working crappy part-time jobs or temporary jobs, working jobs that don't pay a living wage, working jobs that pay little or nothing, working jobs that may vanish tomorrow, or working jobs that are not at all in our fields.

It's funny that I have seen a generation jump on the burgeoning tech industry and I have seen it evaporate, all before my peers have settled down. :P

[Tunkamerica]

27. ditto n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I will be trite

but hope is the last thing to die.

These words were told to me by a camp survivor. As she put it. those who gave up hope surely died. Those who did not, had a better chance.

So if you lose hope, you lost all.

Now this also means that you and me and everybody else with any conscience has to realize that bitching on a message board ain't gonna do a thing.

I have told many a times what part of the solution is, and that is massive organizing, no, not country wide, north america wide at this point and strikes, massive strikes.

Don't expect to see either, because we are far from hitting bottom... as well as other complex reasons. Suffice it to say... it is time for labor to organize, and organize across continents... the nation state has alraedy been replaced by the corporation.

But hey... as many of the kids from your generation (and mine) are fond of saying, when is the next season of American Idol? And shit I need to get a new bauble.

In the famous words of a certain famous burger chain commercial, paraphrased of course... don't bother me, I'm getting stuff.

[Odin2005]

15. We must NEVER give up hope.

If we give up hope they have crushed our spirits, they have won.

Fortunately us Millennials are a collectivistic and practical "Civic" generation, like the Greatest Generation. When push comes to shove our numerical power alone will crush opposition AS LONG AS WE HOLD TOGETHER.

Oh, just to knit-pick, I have seen us Millennials defined as people born from 1982 to 2001 by the recently deceased social historian Bill Strauss, so you would technically be a Gen-Xer. :hi: You Xers will be making sure us Millennials don't go off and do something stupid trying to put some Boomer ideal into practice and marching off a cliff, LOL! :)

[frazzled]

16. Well, this might not be much solace

But as the mother of two "millennials" (born 1981 and 1985), I'll just play mom and give you some corny, mom-type rose-colored glasses stuff.

Don't give up hope. You're clearly bright and committed, and my guess is that there are people in your life who love and support you. You're luckier than some in that regard. Don't try to take on the whole weight of the world on your shoulders: sometimes it's such an overwhelming task that you have no time to step back and take the time to figure out what to do for yourself. Is it getting some more education? (It doesn't have to be expensive; you could try a night course once a week at a community college, while you keep that crappy job). Is it figuring out what really makes you happy in life? You're young, and many things will happen to you that you will never anticipate. But it helps to have a goal, and to concentrate your efforts and resources on it. It's okay to walk away from worrying about politics for a while and focus on your own life. Plutocracies, as you call them, have always been here, and they'll probably be there when you're ready to step back into the fray. Heck, when I was young there weren't even any women or minorities in politics--the whole country was run by white males.

People my age look back on their lives and most often believe that they were happiest when they had very little. What I remember were the times we would spend with friends, eating plates of homemade spaghetti and cheap wine and having conversations late into the night. Cherish these times, even if you don't have that American-dream job and home and white picket fence. They're overrated in many ways.

Generations survive the toughest times. They always do. You will be the ones to continue to fix all this. But you can't do it through despair and worry. Accept what's here and work to change one little bit of it. Someone is going to give you a break some day, and hire you in a job you like. So think about what you would like to be doing--and don't think it's impossible. A job you enjoy, even if it isn't the best paying, is worth a dozen that make you sick or worried.

And, oh yeah, count your blessings. There is always someone worse off than you, and there is always a country that is worse than ours.

Okay, now you can say, "Jeezus, mom, you don't understand anything." That's okay, I can take it. I've heard it before!

[Juche]

37. That was nice, thanks

The thing about human history is it has been littered with examples of the weak and disorganized rebelling against the powerful and organized. It didn't matter if it was for social justice, political justice or economic justice. And the powerful would try and throw up roadblocks to keep the weak disorganized and weak.

It happens all over the planet. And it can take decade, that is the sad part. It took over 100 years to abolish child labor. Hopefully with advances in communications it can be done faster now, but we need effective methods of persuasion. We really don't seem to have that. Massive labor strikes are the only thing I can think of that would be effective. Everything else (protests, contacting politicians, voting, primaries) seems to get ignored.

I really don't know where this is headed. But the 2 parties are becoming more and more extreme and voters are feeling more and more forgotten.

But I know a lot of people are pissed about the current state of events (no jobs, no wage increases, no healthcare, no real representation in our plutocracy). People just need constructive outlets for those feelings to try to change things.

[starroute]

17. I'm a boomer and none of my friends have grandkids

We all had children between about 1975 and 1989 -- and only a few of them are married and none have kids of their own. You don't hear about the birthrate dropping the way it did in the 30's -- but somebody sure isn't able to afford families, and mostly it's the highly-educated but marginally employed children of my intelligent, progressive friends and other people like us.

My own kids were born in 1978 and 1982 and are just barely hanging on. One has a marginal job and other other has been out of work for over a year. My only hope at this point is for the world to change so radically that there will be a demand for anybody with a clue as to the new way things work -- and how much chance is there of that?

[Hardrada]

31. That's a good point. I notice a cut off point. My friends from

my childhood up to 1968 or so have grandchildren (the ones that married). From the ones I met from 1969 on there are more unmarried and out of the Boomer folks I know I am hard pressed to think of more than two of them to have grandchildren. One friend of mine still has all three of his sons living at home. I guess I never thought of the step beyond to grandchildren sine we have no children to encourage (as though we ever would) to have grandchildren. And my younger siblings are very late to having children at all.

[Gregorian]

18. Nelson Mandela

I didn't want to post this because it's not well thought out. Not that my posts usually are.

Rome has always been burning.

Life is made up of three things. I just chose three. I don't know what they are. Let's say they're health, wealth, love. You pick any two. You can't have all three.

So that's it in a nutshell.

And remember, there were people who survived the holocaust. Not many. But there were people. And by survived, I mean their hope.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurt Remarque]

30. things are bad but...

cut out the victim shit and define yourself. rise above pop culture crap. care about people

[Forkboy]

32. If it wasn't for music I'd ace myself in a heartbeat.

It's the only thing that keeps me going day to day. I hope you can find something that has the same effect for you. :toast:

[Luminous Animal]

34. You are your own hope.

[Alamuti Lotus]

35. the good news is that all of the fucked up news will explode

we're possibly too ADD from too much TV to let this shit go with a fight, but we're also too Video Gamed to let it go without with an ADHD episode of maximum response.

The lack of money, since that's what it all comes down to, will guarantee this. We--literally, as Joe Biden would say--will soon have nothing better to do than royally fuck things up. That has to lead somewhere, and I mean that in all seriousness.

[Double T]

36. Sorry. What YOU see is only going to get a lot worse.

Why would anyone want to have their children face a horrible future. YOU are smart.

[Juche]

39. The painful part is it doesn't need to

We have enough wealth to give people more security, reliable health care and change how our economy works (more emphasis on job creation and wage growth, both of which have been ignored for years).

We could have medicare for all and save $400 billion in the process. Unions could drive up wages. Changing how capital and government work could lead to more job creation.

And a lot of us who gave our time, money and votes in 2006 and 2008 did it with those goals (or reasonable compromises of them). Some of them are being acted on, some not. But the anger is still there since it is obvious the plutocrats are still in charge.

[flyarm]

40. sorry..I can't...only "you" can do that for yourself.

you can't look for others to make your way..

don't count on politicans, sports people, celebrities, your parents, your neighbors..

Only you can give you hope...sooner you learn that the better.

Make your own hope.

[girl gone mad]

41. Two things:

1. Housing costs should continue to decline. Rents were down an average of 3% nationally yoy, more in many urban areas. Renting may be best for the foreseeable future. Boomers will be net sellers in the coming years, which will keep pressure on prices.

2. Your generation and those that come after are not obligated to pay off the national debt. This country is worse off by most measure than it was 3 decades ago. In other words, young people, as a group, derived little, if any, tangible benefit from the extreme spending started by Reagan. We all know where the money went. You will have two choices. Either tax the people who gained from the deficit spending or elect leaders who will default. Don't count on the Fed monetizing the debt. They won't bite the hand that feeds them.

[struggle4progress]

42. Because you really can't live without hope. So get out there and whip some up

[gleaner]

44. I don't know if I can give you hope ....

but as you yourself point out this country and its people have been through even harder times before. You named them but didn't point out the great depression which my parents lived through or maybe you did and I missed it.

I'm a boomer. As I was living through Viet Nam and the political assassinations which riddled the 60s, I thought that life couldn't get any worse. It is worse now, though. But I have seen in my life from reading history and living for 62 years that history and nations move through cycles, like the pendulum on a clock. All the way to adversity then back to normal. From prosperity to a deep hole it is hard to even see out of. I do think this will pass. From the 80s on people seemed to lose their ability to form a cleansing anger necessary to reform a mess like this and seemed to lose the will to act on the need to reform. I see that coming back. Both here and in California where there are many ballot initiatives designed to make our state government accountable for their frauds and mismanagement.

It may seem pretty empty to you now. Just words, but that is where hope comes in. I am a cynic who has just been sold out by a government who promised me the moon to get into office and then threw those promises back in my face. My hope doesn't lie with them. It is with people like you who care enough to try and make a difference and for many of the other posters who write here. Time is somewhat circular. Nothing happens that has not happened before in another time and another place. Still here we are confronting what may come next, but not knowing. That takes courage which is why I admire the people who come here to question and offer solutions. There are many more like you but we don't hear from them. But that doesn't mean they aren't there and that we can't all bring a change for the better. We need to try, or what is life about?

[Goldstein1984]

45. I have a daughter your age

I pushed her hard to go to college, but she decided to follow a different path. She got a job as an administrative assistant, progressed into payroll, then cost scheduling, then office manager, then business development. She found something she really loved doing, stuck with it, and now she makes more than her high school classmates who went on to become attorneys, engineers, and physicians.

My advice is to not make finding a job in your college major too high a priority. In college you picked up a lot of transferable skills you may not even realize you have--writing, verbal communication, analytical ability, time management, and possibly teaching and mentoring skills. Build on those.

I'm a "hopper." I'm restless and I get bored easily, and my resume shows that I seldom stay anyplace longer than three years when I have the freedom to move on. In this economy I'm going to sit tight, get comfortable, and exchange my services in return for pay as long as it lasts. So, I also advise you to grab onto any stability you can find, ideal or not, and make the best of it.

Regarding that emigration suggestion in another post--don't take that too lightly. People immigrated into the United States when it was a land of opportunity, I don't see anything unpatriotic or unethical about doing the same thing in reverse. My wife and I are most likely going to be taking our money and retiring outside of the U.S., and we are already making financial arrangements to be sure we can't be held hostage to the U.S. financially. The ruling class who created this mess are going to move on like locusts, nobody else is obligated to hang around for sentimental reasons, either.