On Thom Hartmann: Don Siegelman just said Obama isn't doing his job.

[Elwood P Dowd]

Someone else is running the show while he runs around the country making speeches. Don is upset with the strange behavior of Obama's Justice Department.

[gateley]

1. He didn't say it in so many words, but that was certainly the gist of it. That

court case he cited -- surprising (although I've already forgotten the details).

[Elwood P Dowd]

2. Thom hinted that the DLC was running things.

Yes, I was paraphrasing Siegelman's statement, but that was the gist of it like you said.

[Octafish]

38. That's like saying ''The Family'' is running things.

Which, in a way, they are.

[debbierlus]

61. The democratic party is mostly DLC. The few who fight are marginalized

And, they try to remove them from office and replace them with DLC friendly politicians.

[Individualist]

64. No doubt about that.

[avaistheone1]

12. I have thought so for some time now.

Ever read the stories of how Obama ran his office as a Senator? He took pretty much a hands off approach.

[CreekDog]

3. Siegelman said Obama "promised to push for single payer health care" and Thom agreed

incorrect. :grr:

i hate that Thom chides people for being wrong and then he lets an easy one like that go and worse "uh huhs" as it's said.

:wtf:

[dflprincess]

7. When he was a state senator he did believe in it

thought Hartmann might have made it clear that that was when Obama supported it.

While a presidential candidate supported a public option and opposed mandates and taxes on "Cadillac" plans. Now he's reversed himself on all those things. The point that was being made was that Obama just keeps getting more coroporate friendly and moving further right and that's certainly correct.

[CreekDog]

11. Siegelman very clearly stated that Obama promised that he would push it as president

and he said no such thing.

and Hartmann let it go, except for the "uh huh".

Hartmann gets a lot right, but there are times when he's stubbornly wrong to suit his purpose.

[dflprincess]

13. I still think the intent was to point out that

I still think the intent was to point out that Obama has abandoned many of the positions he held to get elected (to any office) and now that he's at the top of food chain his only concern is to protect the status quo.

Should Hartmann have made a correction? Maybe. But if Obama can now claim he never thought a public option was important, why care if a radio host lets a guest's mistake slide?

[CreekDog]

14. why care if a radio host lets a guest's mistake slide?

if he jumps in to agree with him a few words later, I think that's a problem.

second, if the argument is that Obama hasn't kept his promise and your example is a promise Obama never made, it makes you look like a fool and renders your argument false.

that's why. :wtf:

[dflprincess]

27. It wasn't that he "never" said it

at one time he did support single payer as the best way to solve the healthcare mess. He dropped that position when he ran for president (or as some of said his position "evolved" :puke:). His position has continued to "evolve" after he was elected and he has now decided that protecting the insurance companies is more important than Americans having access to health care.

Hartmann should have corrected the time line and pointed out that while single payer was not part of the presidential campaign, it has been something Obama supported in the past. If he had wanted to talk about the presidential campaign, he could have pointed out that Obama has gone back on what he did say about healthcare in 2008 and is moving to a position that is getting closer to what McCain campaigned on. The fact is, the further up the food chain Obama goes, the more of a corporate stooge he becomes.

[KakistocracyHater]

39. protecting the rich will be the end of America, they're incompetent & it shows

*

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. Perhaps Thom is misinformed

He should spend some time on DU so that he can learn the facts.

[mmonk]

34. I believe he posts here.

[Freddie Stubbs]

49. Then perhaps is ignorance is willfully

[bobbolink]

91. BWAHAHAHA!

Oh yes, Thom Hartmann is "misinformed"---its the DLC that is soooo brilliant.

Talk about a DUZY......

[QC]

4. Is there any more room under the Hopemobile for Don?

I guess the rest of us need to shift about a bit and make a space for him.

[Elwood P Dowd]

5. My worst fear is that Don is sent back to prison, and Obama does absolutely nothing

to stop it.

[rudy23]

6. What would you do then, vote for Palin?

:sarcasm:

Sorry, just had to guess what the bots would say in response to Obama's indefensible actions on this.

[Elwood P Dowd]

9. What are the Who Dats going to do this weekend? (nt)

[rudy23]

10. You thought you saw a lot of offense last week? Just wait.

If our defense can't get healed up, I'm picking the Saints in a squeaker, 63-60 ;)

Assuming the D is good to go, I'll take us 42-24.

I'll be there!

[Elwood P Dowd]

15. Been to the Dome a few times watching Sugar Bowls.

I had a ticket to the Saints-Minnesota playoff game back in the late 1980s but was too hungover to attend. Think I woke up at halftime. Didn't miss much because the Saints lost that day.

Yes, this could beat last Sunday's record, but then when everyone says that the game turns out much lower scoring than predicted.

[rudy23]

17. I was at that Saints-Vikes game. Bummer. You should come to a Saints home game. Nothing louder.

Sugar Bowls are fun, but at most you get half the stadium cheering at once. When the Saints are at home, it's just wall to wall noise. You might not be able to hear the announcers on Saturday.

I agree-whenever anyone predicts a shootout, it never lives up. However, I think the Saints' offense has been scaled back for the last few weeks, and we're ready to unleash our bottled energy just like at the beginning of the season.

Luckily the Saints' D is a lot healthier than the last few weeks, or I'd think we really would give up 60. Especially if we can't stop Beanie Wells. We've been terrible against good RBs this year. With our CBs back and healthy, I feel a little better about the Cards' studs at WR, as long as we can handle Beanie.

The good news is, Warner won't be able to hear himself think. Should be a classic.

[QC]

8. That's what is probably going to happen.

Obama doesn't do controversy, no way no how, and Siegelman is nothing if not controversial.

[EFerrari]

18. Paul Minor is also still in prison on trumped up bullshit.

This DoJ is hugely disappointing.

[defendandprotect]

23. +1000%

[flyarm]

50. how many US Attorney's have been replaced by Obama ..anyone know?

I really haven't seen that any have been replaced..but i may have missed it..does anyone have an answer to my question?

Thanks ..

[annabanana]

75. I could've sworn I saw a pie chart

with just that information on it.. (or perhaps it was a "repub appointee vs Dem appointee" pie chart) perhaps in a Time Magazine, although I'll be damned if I can find it now...

[defendandprotect]

22. Agree --

[cui bono]

16. He said something scathing... and I can't remember what.

Something that the Obama Admin. argued in court. It was so disgusting too.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Sounds like the convicted felon is getting his talking points from Karl Rove

[defendandprotect]

21. Are you supporting blue dogs?

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. Yes

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

24. This man was manifestly convicted in a corrupt, kangaroo court.

As you may recall, the Bush administration had what is known as a "US Attorneys Scandal" and their DoJ appointees were only too happy to take down a popular Democrat with bullshit.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. He has yet to prove in a court of law that the judicial proceedings were corrupt

[avaistheone1]

36. Sigelman has already had dozens of attorney generals step forth to support

him.

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. Have any of these dozens of lawyers been able to convince a court of law?

:shrug:

[flyarm]

51. you mean Bushes corrupt courts?????? Tell me has Obama replaced any of Bush's US ATTORNEYS?

You know the courts Bush stacked with crooks.........

Has Obama replaced any of Bushes US ATTORNEY"S????????

[Freddie Stubbs]

53. Clinton appointed more judges to the federal bench than Bush

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Bill_Clinton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_George_W._Bush

[flyarm]

54. you didn't answer my question..Has Obama replaced any of Bush's US ATTORNEYS?

Don Siegelman's case was rife with Bush/Cheney/Roves boys..

Has Obama replaced any of Bush's US ATTORNEY"S?????????

were any replaced in the courts run by Bush's appointments in the court districts that controlled Don's case??????

or anywhere for that matter.

I didn't ask you how many were appointed by Clinton..you are changing the subject..and not effectively!

How many changes in appointments has Obama made?

[Freddie Stubbs]

79. Yes, Obama has replaced some of Bush's US Attorneys

As far as I am aware, he has not replaced any involved in the Siegelman case. Perhaps he has yet to see any reason to do so.

[EFerrari]

59. Considering the corruption of the courts that hung Siegelman and Minor

out to dry, this isn't a productive line of argumentation.

[Freddie Stubbs]

81. If the judges are so currupt, why hasn't here been any move to impeach them?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

82. Siegelman Deserves New Trial Because of Judge's 'Grudge,' Evidence Shows

300 Million in Bush Contracts Enriched Judge's Private Company

The Alabama federal judge who presided over the 2006 corruption trial of the state's former governor holds a grudge against the defendant for helping to expose the judge's own alleged corruption six years ago. Former Gov. Don Siegelman therefore deserves a new trial with an unbiased judge ─ not one whose privately owned company, Doss Aviation, has been enriched by the Bush administration's award of $300 million in contracts since 2006, making the judge millions in non-judicial income.

These are the opinions of Missouri attorney Paul B. Weeks, who is speaking out publicly for the first time since his effort in 2003 to obtain the impeachment of U.S. District Judge Mark E. Fuller of Montgomery on Doss Aviation-related allegations.

The comments by Weeks come during a momentous week in one of the most controversial U.S. criminal cases of the decade, with public officials and Alabama activists alike claiming Siegelman was targeted for prosecution because of status as Alabama's most popular Democrat. The Eleventh U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected on May 15 Siegelman's request for an en banc appeal of his case, thus keeping it in the hands of Judge Fuller. Also, the Obama U.S. Justice Department announced May 12 that it wants Fuller to increase Siegelman's prison sentence to 20 years on re-sentencing this spring, even though Siegelman now faces two fewer charges than when Fuller sentenced him in 2007 to seven years in prison.

Siegelman, now free on bail, issued this statement on May 15: "The Bush holdovers in the Department of Justice have asked that I be sentenced to an additional 20 years in prison. The Bush-appointed U.S. Attorney, whose husband is Karl Rove's closest friend in Alabama, joined with the Chief of the Public Integrity Section of D.O.J., also a Bush holdover, in asking for the longer sentence. What makes the request for a longer sentence even more bizarre is the fact that the Bush holdovers are asking my (Bush-appointed) judge to give me 20 years in prison based on charges for which I was found not guilty."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-kreig/siegelman-deserves-new-tr_b_201455.html

I have to go look because I don't remember if this same Fuller guy is still on the case or not. He's a piece of work, though.

[Freddie Stubbs]

83. So, this guy has been trting to get the judge impeached for SEVEN years?

And not one single member of Congress has taken up his cause?

[EFerrari]

84. Well, yes, the House Judiciary did.

Congress subpoenas Wecht, Siegelman documents

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_575304.html

That was a year and a half ago.

[Hawkeye-X]

68. Actually he has proof

But the courts full of Chimp's cronies are ignoring it.

The reason he's out on bail because he got a new trial with the same corrupt judge that Siegelman is trying to get him to recuse himself.

The very same corrupt judge that has stocks in an aviation company which landed a big DoD contract as a "payback" for fucking up Siegelman's life. That very same corrupt judge that needs to be arrested, disbarred, and sent to prison for life.

If you don't believe me, Google it yourself. It's common knowledge for those who follow the Siegelman case.

Hawkeye-X

[arthritisR_US]

73. I'm glad you pointed that out, it damn well needs to be out there! n/t

[QC]

56. I have long believed that your talking points come from the same source.

Yes, it's gotten that obvious.

[defendandprotect]

20. Siegelman's right -- and aren't we all upset with most of Obama's policies????

Was watching a C-span program earlier today --
Washington Journal --

and the sole guest -- other than the GWU audience -- was Juan Williams on --

someone I really dislike --

But for whatever the reason he did pepper his responses with some liberal insights --

Finally they asked the audience how many voted -- looked like majority of audience --

How many dissatisfied with both Rep and Dems -- lots!!!

And discussion by Williams of breaking up the two party power --

Think the numbers are right . . . only 20% of voting public now identifies as Repug --

And would agree with the poll which shows that 45% of Dems will not vote for Obama again!!!

So -- we'd better be talking about where this is all going --!!!

And anyone turning their nose up at that idea is fooling themselves!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Upset with MOST of Obama's policies?

Is it possible that you could be exaggerating just a bit?

[defendandprotect]

37. Major policies: Health care, Wars, Surges, Wiretapping, Habeas Corpus, DOJ . .. military

budget . . . on and on --

Charter schools --

Is it possible you're supporting Blue Dogs?

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. 1. Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009

2. Began withdrawal of US troops from Iraq

3. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date

4. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research

5. Permitted states to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards

6. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children

7. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones

8. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals

9. The FDA is now regulating tobacco

[rudy23]

58. Ledbetter is great, but let's be real----we didn't rally around the man in '08 for Lilly Ledbetter

Or any of the other half-accomplishments that are on your list. We voted for a reversal of Bush's policies, and what everyone's seeing as plain as day, is the continuation of the vast majority of those policies.

[flyarm]

52. how is that Bush / Obama FISA working out for you? Made stronger under Obama..

how is that Obama torture working out for you?

Or the Obama renditions?



why don't you read this and and tell us all how any real democrat can stomach Kissinger..and his band of criminals being in bed with Obama?


Shortly after taking office..Obama asked Henry Kissinger..knick name.."The Butcher of Cambodia"..to represent his administration in Talks with Russia..

lets look as some serious connections here of Geithner , Kissinger and Obama...shall we..( edit to add: much of this i have posted many times in the past.)


TIMOTHY GEITHNER

Biography

Early life and education
Geithner was born in Brooklyn, New York.<2> He spent most of his childhood living outside the United States, including present-day Zimbabwe, Zambia, India and Thailand, where he completed high school at International School Bangkok.<3> He then attended Dartmouth College, graduating with a B.A. in government and Asian studies in 1983.<4> He earned an M.A. in international economics and East Asian studies from Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in 1985.<4><5> He has studied Chinese<4> and Japanese.<6>

Geithner's paternal grandfather, Paul Herman Geithner (1902–1972), emigrated with his parents from the German town of Zeulenroda to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1908.<7> His father, Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York.

During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro, President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once.<8>

Timothy Geithner's mother, Deborah Moore Geithner, is a pianist and piano teacher in Larchmont, New York where his parents currently reside. Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.

Early career

After completing his studies,

Geithner worked for Kissinger and Associates in Washington, D.C., for three years and then joined the International Affairs division of the U.S. Treasury Department in 1988.

He went on to serve as an attaché at the US Embassy in Tokyo. He was deputy assistant secretary for international monetary and financial policy (1995–1996), senior deputy assistant secretary for international affairs (1996-1997), assistant secretary for international affairs (1997–1998).<5>

He was Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs (1998–2001) under Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.<5> Summers was his mentor,<10><11> but other sources call him a Rubin protégé.<11><12><13>



In 2002 he left the Treasury to join the Council on Foreign Relations as a Senior Fellow in the International Economics department.<14> He was director of the Policy Development and Review Department (2001-2003) at the International Monetary Fund.<5>


In October 2003, he was named president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.<15> His salary in 2007 was $398,200.<16> Once at the New York Fed, he became Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee component. In 2006, he also became a member of the Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty.<17>


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Timmy's dad :


Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s,

Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by

S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro,

President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once



Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


now this should alarm every true democrat on these boards!!!!!!!


and From an April post of mine here at DU: and please, don't believe me ...click the link..it was in the CFR publication!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Remarks by National Security Adviser Jones at 45th Munich Conference on Security Policy

Published February 8, 2009




Speaker: James L. Jones


U.S. National Security Adviser Jones ( edit to add: new advisor hired by Obama!!!!) gave these remarks at the 45th Munich Conference on Security Policy at the Hotel Bayerischer Hof on

February 8, 2009.





"Thank you for that wonderful tribute to Henry Kissinger yesterday. Congratulations. As the most recent National Security Advisor of the United States, I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger, filtered down through General Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger, who is also here. We have a chain of command in the National Security Council that exists today.




Source: http://www.cfr.org/publication/18515/remar ... ...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Report: AIG bailout money behind banks' recent profitability

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009 /...

snip:
The financial blog Zero Hedge has posted an "exclusive" that claims that according to an insider's account, AIG (yes, that AIG) "was responsible for the banks' January and February profitability."


Saying it is "rarely speechless," ZH offered "a moment of silence for the phenomenal scam that continues unabated in the financial markets, and now has the full oversight and blessing of the U.S. government, which in turns keeps on duping U.S. taxpayers into believing everything is good."


ZH says the insider perspective came in an email from "a correlation desk trader." Unless you're a finance whiz (and who is these days?!) you might get lost in the explanation of how AIG supposedly engineered this feat of profitability. But ZH tries to explain the "mumbo jumbo" in "layman's terms":


AIG, knowing it would need to ask for much more capital from the Treasury imminently, decided to throw in the towel, and gifted major bank counter-parties with trades which were egregiously profitable to the banks, and even more egregiously money losing to the U.S. taxpayers, who had to dump more and more cash into AIG, without having the U.S. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner disclose the real extent of this, for lack of a better word, fraudulent scam.


In simple terms think of it as an auto dealer, which knows that U.S. taxpayers will provide for an infinite amount of money to fund its ongoing sales of horrendous vehicles (think Pontiac Azteks): the company decides to sell all the cars currently in contract, to lessors at far below the amortized market value, thereby generating huge profits for these lessors, as these turn around and sell the cars at a major profit, funded exclusively by U.S. taxpayers (readers should feel free to provide more gripping allegories).


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

No one has to tell you what to think..do your own research..come to your own conclusions..but don't slam others that have done their research and have come to conclusions..

After all Our Constitution says..WE THE PEOPLE..that is you and me and everyone in this country..we all have an obligation to protect and defend our constitution..if you don't look at info..no one can make you ..and you can stay perfectly ignorant to what is going on..but do not smear others who do TAKE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO THE CONSTITUTION SERIOUSLY..and who do research and who do know what is going on...no one needs to edicate you..you can do that easily enough for yourself.

But do not even attempt to tell me i have to wear the blinders you are!

[defendandprotect]

87. Didn't know that about Obama asking Kissinger to participate in talks with Russia -- !!!

Shortly after taking office..Obama asked Henry Kissinger..knick name.."The Butcher of Cambodia"..to represent his administration in Talks with Russia..


Wow -- will have to come back to reread you post -- very upsetting --

Thanks for the info -- and please keep putting it forth until everyone here has a chance

to be aware of it --

:)

[RainDog]

26. Seymour Hersh said Cheney has "stay -behinds" infilitrated in the highest offices

Gates would surely seem to be one of those.

Cheney is still pulling strings. Republicans are still hurting our nation with their policies. Democrats who do their bidding are betraying the American people who voted TWICE (in the mid-terms in 2006 and in the presidential election in 2008) to GET RID OF REPUBLICAN RULE.

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. Did Mr. Hersh name any of them?

:shrug:

[RainDog]

33. Hersh is a well-respected journalist. A Pulitzer-prize winner

His remarks about people coming forward from the administration were recently on Democracy Now. maybe you can find the link and post it.

Hersh was the one who broke the story of the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Hersh was the one who told about the stand-down in the Tora-Bora region that many think was Rumsfeld's ploy to keep the OBL fear alive so that the U.S. could illegally invade Iraq.

anyway, google Hersh. He has a track record that is very reliable.

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. Sy Hersh Says It’s Okay to Lie (Just Not in Print):

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11719/

[RainDog]

78. The article NEVER claims Hersh is wrong!

it merely says he changes certain bits of information that he publishes with more detailed information, basically.

then there's this:

Sy Hersh's claims of Cheney assassination squad confirmed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x290948

which was confirmed after Hersh mentioned the same in one of those talks.

Minneapolis, MN -- Speaking Tuesday night at the University of Minnesota's "Great Conversations" event, veteran investigative journalist Seymour Hersh made news by letting slip allegations that the Executive branch has been running a covert military operation independent of Congressional oversight, code-named "The Deadly Viper Assassination Squad." In response to a question from a student in the audience, Hersh said, "Yuh. After 9/11, I haven't written about this yet, but the Central Intelligence Agency was very deeply involved in domestic activities against people they thought to be enemies of the state. Without any legal authority for it. They haven't been called on it yet." Hersh said of the secret kill team, "Congress has no oversight of it. It's an executive assassination ring essentially, and it's been going on and on and on."

...and so on.

why don't you post the ways that Hersh was wrong v. the ways he was right? If you really want to defame Hersh, do it with some sort of intelligence. don't post bullshit and pretend it represents reality. that's so Bush admin.

From the article you posted:

Then there’s Sy. He’s the public speaker, the pundit. On the podium, Sy is willing to tell a story that’s not quite right, in order to convey a Larger Truth. “Sometimes I change events, dates, and places in a certain way to protect people,” Hersh told me. “I can’t fudge what I write. But I can certainly fudge what I say.”


this, the author continues to PUT INTO CONTEXT, doesn't mean Hersh is lying. It means he is telling stories in such a way that no one is identified. It means he is sometimes saying he "knows" something and wants other to come forward. He is engaging in typical acts of an investigative reporter. Sometimes he's wrong. But his track record reveals that HE'S more often, esp. on the big important issues, RIGHT. Sullentrop's article says this very thing... that Hersh is reputable, believable, that Hersh changes information when speaking that he clarifies in print.

...Hersh basically confirmed as much when he told Scocca that some comments he made about Guantánamo Bay abuses were an effort to get some new sources to contact him: “At some point, Army reservists were sent down to Gitmo. And they didn’t like what they saw. And that’s where I’m trying to go—I’m trying to find these guys.”

...Newsweek’s Evan Thomas soured on Hersh after The Dark Side of Camelot, telling the Columbia Journalism Review in summer 2003, “I read what he writes with some skepticism or doubt or uncertainty.” But Thomas has since changed his mind. “Even if he’s made a few mistakes—even if you’re not sure what they are—overall you’d have to say he’s pretty much been ahead of everybody,” Thomas says.



so, that attempt to manipulate opinion by quoting out of context? GIANT FAIL ON YOUR PART.

[RainDog]

80. Your post is a lie. You should post a title that acknowledges you are lying.

but, looking at the things you post here, it seems like lying is part of your job or something.

duly noted.

[defendandprotect]

41. Are you supporting "Blue Dogs" . . . and their policies?

[Freddie Stubbs]

48. Yes

[defendandprotect]

63. Why are you supporting Blue Dogs?

And needless to say, you'd also be supporting the DLC?

[Freddie Stubbs]

67. Because we can't get a Democratic majority in the House without them

Many of them are elected from districts were Republicans outnumber Democrats. These districts are not going to elect liberal Democrats.

[Hawkeye-X]

70. Like I said, Freddie Boi, zero credibility

You might as well put a "I'm a Stealth Republican and scr00ing you" replacing the pic of the ugly-ass mutt that you call "Blue Dog".

[Freddie Stubbs]

76. Blue Dogs have plenty of credibility

Just take a look at Obama's administration and its policies.

[defendandprotect]

71. Are you avoiding saying that you support Blue Dog principles?

Because what you're saying is an avoidance of truth --

You don't compromise with evil --

[Freddie Stubbs]

77. No, I am not

I support the Blue Dogs' principles of commitment to financial and national security, favoring compromise and bipartisanship over ideology and party discipline.

[defendandprotect]

85. So you're beyond even corporate-DLC .... and actually support Blue Dogs--!!!

Wow --

All out capitalism, eh?

Remember that our Founders "compromised" with slave owners in the Constution which

led to the Civil War -- from which we still haven't recovered.

It was a schizophrenic Constitution for elite white males only --

Suggesting that there could be "Bipartisanship" with GOP neo-fascists just points to

more opportunities for sell outs to corporate/fascism.

"Party discipline" . . . you mean GOP robots?

But nice to know who you really are --

[Freddie Stubbs]

89. Even the Co-Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus supports Blue Dogs:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7641

[defendandprotect]

90. No one supports Blue Dogs . . . they're as poisonous as the DLC in Dem Party . ..

And you're calling that article an "endorsement" ....

"STUNNING" and "CURIOUS SUPPORT" BY Woolsey for Harman . . . ?

And the article noting Harman's "APPALLING RECORD" . . . ???


In the wake of Woolsey's curious support for the seven term Democrat, PDA is issuing an email blast to supporters tonight, asking them to sign on to an open letter demanding Woolsey withdraw from the upcoming event,

as well as drop her endorsement of Harman

who will be challenged this year by Winograd, a longtime leader in PDA's Los Angeles chapter, and the first candidate of 2010 to be endorsed by the group. Winograd ran an unsuccessful challenge against Harman in 2006, but has begun her campaign earlier this year, and hopes to capitalize on growing progressive outrage at entrechned Congressional Democrats such as Harman. In a recent letter to supporters, Winograd described Harman as "the Joe Lieberman of the House."

In the open letter posted here, initially signed by Tim Carpenter, PDA's National Director, Mimi Kennedy and PDA's Advisory Board Chair, the group, describes the process signing the letter as "painful," but describes the negative response from members to the Woolsey endorsement of Harman, and asks for her to withdraw from the event immediately.


And just who did you think would fall for this garbage?

[Freddie Stubbs]

92. So, Lynne Woolsey, the Co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, is a 'no one?'

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

93. Right .... they're asking her to DROP her "curious" and "stunning" Harmon support--!!!

And to not attend the event --

Is that somehow NOT clear to you?

[Freddie Stubbs]

95. That's very clear

Just as clear as Congresswoman Woolsey's support of the reelection of a Blue Dog.

[defendandprotect]

96. Woolsey is somehow off the tracks .... in supporting a Blue Dog with "appalling record" . .

[Freddie Stubbs]

97. Apperently the Co-chair of the Congressiona Progressive Caucus don't think that

Harman has an "appalling record." Perhaps you know Harman's record better than Congresswoman Woolsey.

[Hawkeye-X]

69. Yes.

Leura Canary - a Rove appointed Chimp crony that Obama has not fired and ordered arrested. She is the current US Attorney for the Middle District of Alabama.

[laughingliberal]

30. Yeah, I thought we took care of that Republican rule problem in 2 election cycles

but here we are still living with this crap.

[defendandprotect]

40. Didn't know Seymour Hersh had said that ... sad to see it confirmed ...

Why else would Cheney be living on top of the CIA in retirement?

This has been going on pretty much overtly since 1963 . . . . and government

and Democratic Party were shut down to make sure there were no real investigations ---

THEN OR NOW!!

[Vidar]

32. K&R.

[Kingofalldems]

35. Before perusing this thread, I figured Rove's DU pal would jump in

and I was right--He's all over it. He's being a smartass with this--------> :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

43. Yes . . . humorous to watch . . .

[flyarm]

57. not so ..humorous..

i feel like the early days after 9/11 dealing with paid Bushbots!..and any more, coming to DU I at times feel like i need to shower after reading some of their shit.

Does anyone remember what it was like when "old"democrats stood against ..

FISA wiretapping

Torture

Renditions

wanting real "HEALTH CARE" REFORM instead of Union busting and hidden taxes on the middle class for health care

ending two wars we were lied into

holding war criminals accountable

now we have what we are told are 'NEW DEMOCRATS"

CAN SOMEONE BRING BACK THE OLD DEMOCRATS...PLEASE...THEY HAD A CONSCIENCE.. AND VALUES AND PRINCIPLES!

I DON'T RECOGNISE WHAT I AM SEEING TODAY IN MY OLD PARTY..

[defendandprotect]

60. "Humorous" because it is so quickly apparent ....

and while it is sad to see them here what they are saying is quickly rejected,

as far as I can see --

but 9/11 -- MIHOP.

Re this . . .

Does anyone remember what it was like when "old"democrats stood against ..

FISA wiretapping

Torture

Renditions

wanting real "HEALTH CARE" REFORM instead of Union busting and hidden taxes on the middle class for health care

ending two wars we were lied into

holding war criminals accountable

now we have what we are told are 'NEW DEMOCRATS"

CAN SOMEONE BRING BACK THE OLD DEMOCRATS...PLEASE...THEY HAD A CONSCIENCE.. AND VALUES AND PRINCIPLES!

I DON'T RECOGNISE WHAT I AM SEEING TODAY IN MY OLD PARTY..


We have only to look at the McCarthy Era and understand that it was an attack on

the ideals of democracy -- and purging those from government who believed in those ideals.

The right wing never sleeps -- and it's most ready weapon is political violence.

We've suffered much from it --

It's a constant effort by the right wing to undermine and destroy.

It is over and again the "few" corrupting government, perverting our Constitution and

civil rights.

The "OLD DEMOCRATS" are still here -- but the Democratic Party has been overtaken and

corrupted.

In 1963 the coup on JFK didn't end there -- it was a coup on our "people's" government.

And the Democratic Party. That's why we saw no real investigation of the JFK assassination

and the continuing political violence.

Fascism has crossed our threshold in the form of elite/corporate power intended to enrich

the few at the expense of the many.

For decades Democrats have tried to change things by voting for "the lesser of evils."

I think right now it is blazingly apparent that that thinking has only moved the party

further to the right.

There is a huge liberal/progressive voting bloc which must come together to decide what to

do -- i.e., Plan B.


Meanwhile, I'd also point out to you that the computers began to come on line just about the

time that America was passing The Voting Rights Act. Coincidence?

And very little attention is given to the LARGE computers used by MSM which also began coming

in during the mid-1960's and which gave them new powers. Previously they could only REPORT

actual vote tallies. With the new computers, they could PREDICT elections -- PREDICT winning

candidates -- PREDICT electoral college votes -- and PREDICT presidential winners.

It gave them the power to CALL elections for candidates -- to CALL states for presidents --

to CALL a presidential candidate a winner.

And, in 2000, we saw Fox/John Ellis simply reverse those powers by RECALLING Florida from

Gore and later RECALLING it for Bush!

Needless to say the voting computers are trash and have provided another dishonest method for

the right wing to rise in America. And I would question our elections all the way back to

Nixon/Humphrey.


:)

Happy New Year -- we hope!

[flyarm]

65. I agree with everything you say..thank you..eom

[defendandprotect]

42. Just want to add that Democrats doing nothing re Siegelman is one of the saddest

of events --

Bush, Sr. could fling out pardons for all of the Iran-Contra criminals, but

Democrats can't be bothered to interrupt a fake criminal prosecution against

Siegelman???!!!!

Unbelievable!!

[Mithreal]

72. truth

[shadesofgray]

55. Obama's Justice Department? It's still Bush's Justice Department.

And apparently that it just A-OK with Obama.

[defendandprotect]

62. It's mind-boggling that we so well understood the politization/corruption of DOJ, and Obama ....

has left 51 of the Bush AG's in place -- and I don't see that Holder is

worth much, either!!

[arthritisR_US]

74. been reading your posts throughout this thread and I must say,

you are spot on! TY :-)

[defendandprotect]

86. Thank you --

:)


Happy New Year -- we hope!

[GliderGuider]

88. On general principles I agree with his assessment.

I don't think any president is his own man these days. Them that pays the piper calls the tune. And ya dance with the one that brung ya.

[upi402]

94. Not for Americans

But for his corporate masters, he's outstanding.