Rec this thread if you stand with the unions against the excise tax on "Cadillac" health plans

[highplainsdem]

[Nikki Stone1]

1. kick: and they're not Cadillac plans, they are, at best, Ford Focus plans.

...

[laughingliberal]

23. More like Ford Pinto plans

Still reminds me of that crazy little Perot telling us, on healthcare, we paid for a Cadillac and got a Pinto. That much he had right. Come to think of it he nailed that 'giant sucking sound to the South' thing, too.

[dflprincess]

49. And, like the Pinto,

this whole plan will eventually explode and seriously maim, if not kill, the Democratic party.

[rhett o rick]

59. I like Perot. nt

[femrap]

121. I liked my Pinto. nt

[laughingliberal]

140. Lol! Yeah, but would you have wanted to pay a Cadillac price for it? nt

[femrap]

142. Of course not!

But that little Pinto got me cross country...plus people hit it and I collected insurance $$$ many times. I never got the dents out...I scared every BMW and Mercedes on the road.

[rhett o rick]

145. Just dont invite me to ride in the back seat with the gas tank. nt

[femrap]

147. All the Pintos were

recalled and got new gas tanks. It was a good little car...could get into very tiny parking spaces which was the case in San Fran. And I scared the BMWs and Mercedes...which is always fun.

In fact, the bottom of the line Mercedes of today have a strange resemblance to the Pinto...their 'faces' look very similar. Want to see the owner of one of these Mercedes cry? Tell them their car reminds you of long-ago Pinto!

:evilgrin:

[rhett o rick]

148. I liked the Chevy Citation. nt

[PDJane]

2. Yes. I do.

To penalize those with bargaining rights who have given up wages to have health care, particularly those at high risk of injury, is shameful.

[tavalon]

3. As a union member and therefore a strong supporter

I support union positions on most things and hope they have the clout to get listened to.

[louis c]

104. Union Yes

I saw my leader, Ed Hill (IBEW) at the meeting.

He's one of the really great ones.

[Little Star]

4. You can count on it! I support the unions!

[tridim]

5. Kick, but I'm a bit torn because my industry has no union.

So people in my industry usually get the shaft when it comes to benefits. I've never had anything more than Hundai insurance, and I usually have to pay for it myself.

I would love to be unionized and covered under a good union health plan.

[Cleita]

13. Well, get to work and get a union. Get your fellow industry workers involved in doing so. n/t

[Diane R]

17. I'm with you. I grew up in a union home, but I'm not sure union members appreciate the hardships...

...of other people. I get such a sense of entitlement, that makes me sad.

I don't think they understand that many of us spend nearly a thousand a month (for two people) for really crappy insurance with high deductibles and co-pays. Yet they whine that they may be expected to pay taxes on benefits that they are given.

And for the record, my husband is a professional with a 5 year degree (architect). No unions, no company paid benefits, no severence packages, no job protection.

I support union workers, but wish some of them were more aware of what other people deal with.

[tridim]

19. Exactly. Well said.

But don't take this the wrong way Union folks, we're still on your side. Just don't forget about us.

[spoony]

29. I think you're assuming union people have only had union jobs.

And, please, don't say you support unions but that we "whine" too much. And get it straight, please, union workers aren't "given" anything, benefits are fought for.

[flyarm]

34. not all unions get their medical care "free"..My husband and I are both retired union..

It cost us $2,200. per month for our coverage!

Somehow people are under false premises..when we retired we have to pay a portion of our health plan.I don't know about other unions..but that is what we pay ..until medicare kicks in.

And we did pay for it while we worked..we paid for it in lower salaries..in order to have health benefits..nothing is free! We paid for it in work stoppages (unpaid strikes) ..we paid for it in Lockouts ( unpaid)..we paid for it in concessions...again..nothing is free!

[Kansas Wyatt]

48. Excuse YOU...

My Health & Welfare (insurance) is a negotiated contract. During past years the contract has come up for negotiation, either we take a pay raise or apply the pay raise to our alleged luxury 'Cadillac Plan' that we are just "given" according to you. My contractor contributes $7.40 to my Health & Welfare, so this does hit me, even though you think it is "given" to me for free.

And for the record, I only got to work 19.5 hours per week in 2009, until September, and then became without any work, so I lost my alleged "free" insurance. Since I was not working enough or at all now, my Health & Welfare contribution per hour worked was not made. They do not "give" it to me when I am under-employed or unemployed. Understand now?

[earth mom]

119. That's YOUR fault for not fighting for a Union. Not the fault of Union members

who you say "don't understand your plight".

If you want it bad, fight for it.

That's what Union members have done to get what they have.

Quit your whining about what other people have.

You have the power to get it for yourself it you really want it.

[femrap]

123. You stated that well...

I have similar concerns. But I believe that Unions, when well managed, are what everyone should have.

From their height of membership numbers (somewhere around 35% of the labor force) to today's 8%, I don't think Pres O cares much about them. But time will tell.

I'm still very angry over no public option and no buy-in for Medicare which I would have qualified for since I'm over 55. I'm just amazed at how the body starts to decline in the 50's. I just keep taking vitamins and dancing for exercise. I believe there will be a demand for assisted suicides when faced with a deadly disease. From what I've read, it's the last 2 months of life where the patient's bank account is wiped out. Most people would like to see their hard-earned funds go family or a cause they believe in.

Sorry for the off topic.

[laughingliberal]

79. Well, I've had plans that cost enough to qualify for the tax but were not great coverage

Part of being in an aging, female dominated profession. Our little agencies get gouged. So, 'cadillac price' for a pinto policy.

[teamster633]

6. count me in

[Xicano]

7. My Union & The Health Care Issue.

(Repost)

Here's a copy of my unions' position posted back in our September news print. And below that is a bulletin I already posted in a few threads here already. As you can see we support government ownership of hospitals and people before profit.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. what is a Cadillac health plan?

[customerserviceguy]

73. One with reasonable deductibles and co-pays

and quite probably still-affordable premiums. You take them at contract negotiation time, rather than wage increases that are fully taxable.

Frankly, the Senate bill attempts to pay with it's version of HCR by assuming that workers will take taxable pay instead of keeping decent health benefits because of the excise tax.

[janet118]

107. Not sure it's fact but . . .

on another thread it was posted that a "Cadillac plan" was any plan with over $23,000 in premiums for a family and $9000 for individuals. Do unions qualify?

Post link

Edited to post link.

[GinaMaria]

124. It a total benefits package from an employer

totally 23K or more for families. With PPO, dental, vision etc, the total cost of your employer benefits can easily equal this amount. It includes both what you pay and what the employer pays for your benefits. This is part of your total compensation for the work you do. This tax will encourage employers to offer cheaper plans (less access or less utilization because of out of pocket expenses). Some argue that employers will turn around and give you the savings in your paycheck but there is no incentive for them to do this. What will probably happen is you will remain at the same salary and get a cheaper benefits package. So your total compensation decreases, you will get less health care that is covered and the probability of you using health care services decrease due to out of pocket expenses. There is nothing Cadillac or luxurious about these plans. This is the type of health care we should all have. This is a profit grab and one that makes us less healthy as a nation, imo.

[AllyCat]

139. What GinaMaria said, plus you have to add in the cost of your flex spending acct

If you have money put aside to pay for out-of-pocket expenses for your medical care (co-pays, deductibles), that also will count towards the $23K cut-off. Some of the paid-posters here trying to convince us all this is a good thing have tried to argue that none of this will take effect until 2013 so why are we all so worried about it?

Since the Senate Bill has really no price control or regulation for the insurance cos, they will raise their rates from what they already are now, putting $23K a year for insurance in the "very likely" category. My family is already pretty close to that amount. This is not "wasteful spending" on our part. One of our family needs some expensive care for a few years that would bankrupt us using the "cheap" plan from my employer. Not only that, a coworker with the "cheap" plan just got a $600 bill for one of her kid's treatments that would have cost us $250.

[pleah]

9. K&R

[madmom]

10. Kick!

[StarfarerBill]

11. Solidarity! K&R

[Cleita]

12. If it's true that Congress's plans are "exempt" from this, then it's truly a slap in the

face of workers.

[shopgreen]

42. I have not heard anything about that at all.

[Cleita]

50. It was mentioned today on the radio, however, since all these meetings

finalizing the bill is behind closed doors, we won't know until the whole thing is done.

[shopgreen]

93. so so so true

[Puglover]

14. K n R

I can't believe there are people on this site supporting this shit. I left NWA in Oct making what I made in 1989 to KEEP my HC where it was.

[amborin]

15. Unions are fighting for ALL workers, as they always have; 30 mill workers will be taxed here

[slipslidingaway]

16. knr - Bob Herbert: A Less Than Honest Policy (middle-class tax time bomb in HCR bill

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7346347&mesg_id=7346347

[ibegurpard]

18. I'll stand with them if they oppose the entire shit-pile

that came out of the Senate.

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. Tax the rich, not the unions.

Start by repealing the Chimp tax "cut" for millionaire tax dodges. Then repeal the Reagan tax "cut" for millionaire tax dodges. Then restore the estate tax at 100% for anything past the next generation after the person who actually earned the money. No more perpetual billionaires with dumbasses like Chimpy and Paris Hilton getting a free ride because of what their grandparents did.

[inna]

21. Of course. KR+46.

:kick:

[ArcticFox]

22. We would all be subject to that tax eventually

Do not fool yourselves and think that you have nothing to fear because your's is not a "Cadillac Plan."

If it turns out the way it's intended, companies will stop offering "Cadillac Plans." This will result in the substantial appearance of savings, because costs will be shifted from the companies where they are easily counted to individuals where they are impossible to count. When these costs can no longer be counted, they will be treated as if they do not exist.

But where will the taxes come from then? Well, obviously, they will have to start taxing "Chevy Plans." This will result in more apparent "savings" and costs externalized to poor and middle class Americans, driving them deeper and deeper into hopeless sickness and early death.

The scheme is but the latest in the war being waged against us by the elites. Yet one more way to squeeze sustenence out of the 95% of Americans with almost nothing in order to increase their vast wealth.

[inna]

68. +1

(OT, but... do i know you from another forum?...

just ignore this message if i'm mistaken...)

[ArcticFox]

143. I'm thinking you're mistaken

But would that be a bad thing or a good thing?

[laughingliberal]

24. k & r n/t

[bvar22]

25. Candidate Obama STOOD STRONGLY AGAINST the Cadillac Tax.

...but I guess he didn't really "campaign" on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8wmN3wvhNM&feature=player_embedded

[paulsby]

26. as a union member myself

i stand with my fellow union members and against the excise tax on cadillac plans!

[chimpymustgo]

27. SOLIDARITY!

[Unrepentant Fenian]

28. Tried to "Rec", but got an Error Message. Sorry

[Odin2005]

30. K&R for Labor!

[spoony]

31. k/r

[flyarm]

32. rec..K&R...in solidarity!!!!!!!

[rateyes]

33. kicking it, too

Or, should that read "also" or "as well" rather than "too" for the grammar police?

:kick:

[Raine]

35. K & R nt

:kick:

[MissDeeds]

36. K&R

Big time

:kick:

[DisgustedInMN]

37. K & R

[dysfunctional press]

38. duh.

[IndianaGreen]

39. It is really a 'Chevy Tax' that will harm the middle class

K&R

[Jim Sagle]

40. K&R & FNA.

:thumbsup:

[shopgreen]

41. REC

[Union Yes]

43. K&R nt

[Kansas Wyatt]

44. K & R

Millionaires should be taxed to pay for the Obama Insurance Industry BAILOUT/GIVEAWAY, not Working Americans.

[TBF]

45. Solidarity K&R

nt

[pansypoo53219]

46. unions should be working for PUBLIC medical insurance.

they are making american companies less competitive against europe. stop demanding it from companies. fight for wages.

[ipfilter]

122. That's my take. Health care should be a civil right

and our current premiums should be converted to wages. Use the increased tax base to help fund the health care. Convert the current medicare tax to fund the system as well. Health care should be a non-profit business. Why should ones health contribute to the monetary gain of someone else?

I know, I'm just a dreamer.

[Hubert Flottz]

47. K&R

Tax the people Bush made tax exempt like you promised Mr. Obama.

[Dr.Phool]

51. K&R

[midnight]

52. k&R.

[midnight]

53. k&R.

[defendandprotect]

54. Stand with the UNIONS....!!!

[EmeraldCityGrl]

55. Absolutely.

[defendandprotect]

56. kick

[Lugnut]

57. K&R n/t

[twitomy]

58. Amen! Kick NT

[rhett o rick]

60. What is the definition of "Cadallic" plans?

In all cases, I stand with the unions.

[hellsbeagle]

61. K+R

[Upfront]

62. I am in.

Kick

[WT Fuheck]

63. kick

[girl_interrupted]

64. K&R

[closeupready]

65. Absolutely. K&R

Put a tax on those making over $500k per year instead.

[Plucketeer]

66. We're paying more and MORE

to maintain our "Cadillac" health insurance! Now we're gonna pay TAX on it too??? God, I love this new and improved health care!

[enigmatic]

67. I'm Union

And I'll always stand w/ my brothers and sisters.

[southerncrone]

69. K&R

:kick:

[dkf]

70. K&R

Stupidest idea ever.

[gleaner]

71. Here you go ....

a rec and a :kick: These so called "cadillac" plans belong to people like kindergarten teachers and other workers who have the good fortune to be employed by places which recognize the worth of their employees. By calling them "cadillac" plans the proponents of taxing them are trying to make us think that they are the purview of the rich. The interview I read was with a kindergarten teacher who was completely bemused by the whole situation but who could not have afforded the extra tax. Her health plan made up for the lower salary that teachers are usually paid.

I wonder if the eager taxers think that maybe we won't notice yet another stab at our attempts to maintain financial stability?

[donheld]

72. k & R hard

[Joe Bacon]

74. KICK!

because my plan is one of those that would be taxed!

[inna]

75. needs another kick

:kick:

[Skittles]

76. K&R

[kurtzapril4]

77. Cadillac plan?

I don't even have a Yugo plan. I've got the Tucker plan. I.E., I have no health insurance whatsoever, and I have a chronic progressive neurological disease. I'm really of two minds about this.

One mind says that all you union people care about is yourselves, and your over the top health plans. At the expense of people like me. What if you settled for a little less so perhaps more of the uninsured could be covered? And, yeah, I'm for politicians giving up some stuff, too.

My other mind(who grew up in a union household) says..you guys gave up wages, and made other concessions to have better health care. I don't think you should give up anything more than you already have.

So, count me as confused, and trying to juggle two disparate ideas in the air at the same time.

[MilesColtrane]

80. It's divide and conquer.

Not all of us in unions have "cadillac" health insurance. Many of us don't have any employer paid insurance plan at all.

Don't buy into the bosses throwing down scraps to watch those under them tear themselves apart.

We should pay for health care for all by taxing the fucking rich, which have had a free ride in this country for the past forty years.

The only way to improve the lot of workers everywhere is to organize, unionize, and stand in solidarity.

[leftstreet]

84. Smoke/mirrors. Private union membership in the US is about 7%

12-13% if you include public

Just a nice distraction from the Single Payer system the entire country needs.

[Kermitt Gribble]

106. Those of us who are non-union should not be demanding that union workers take concessions.

That is exactly what the anti-union crowd wants us to do. We should be demanding that our employers give us the same standard of living as union workers.

[closeupready]

125. Right. Historically, that's how it's worked, from the 5-day work week, to time-and-a-half for OT,

etc.

[janet118]

110. Two things about unions . . .

1) They often don't vote with their own leadership - I recently saw an SEIU bumpersticker next to a McCain/Palin one. I worked with the Edwards campaign and there were a lot of unions supporting him. When he dropped out, I spoke with a group of carpenters who had been Edwards supporters. They told me didn't like either Clinton or Obama and were going to vote for McCain. Sometimes the unions eat themselves by not voting as a bloc. It makes them even weaker than their dwindling numbers would indicate.

2) They will take support from others for their issues, but when it comes to issues that don't affect their bottom line, they are AWOL. I understand this self-interest, but they don't understand that reaching out to other progressive groups only when they need them for union issues is not a good strategy. There's no quid pro quo. We are all suffering out here under our current healthcare system and it would be useful if unions were more concerned with the big picture.

I agree with the unions who support a single-payer stance and will back them. I'd rather that the truly wealthy contributed more to pay for healthcare. Cadillac plans? My plan is more like the "Shitbox" plan. I'm not sure where this issue fits into my self-interest because I don't even know what "Cadillac" means. Will the unions stand with me - self-employed and having to foot the whole bill for health care without any employer help? I doubt it.

[AllyCat]

149. We are fighting to raise the bar for everyone, not just "us"

We think everyone should have our plans AT A MINIMUM. Everyone should have single-payer. We put in a lot of time, effort, money, and sweat to get what little we get.

Us not having cadillac plans would not allow everyone else to have better care. They just want to have NO CARE and all money.

[Dinger]

78. K & R & Thank You

:grouphug: :patriot:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

81. "Cadillac" health plans (no deductibles, low co-pays) are what

people in other countries take for granted.

[Bette Noir]

82. I look at it this way:

The tax on high-cost health insurance, if I remember correctly, will be 40%. The top tax on the rich is 36%. That means the Senate wants to tax working stiffs making $30, $40K annually to pay *higher* taxes than Bill Gates and the Walton family.

Not right.

[Toucano]

83. Nothing good will come of it. n-t

[Kitty Herder]

85. k&r

[DeadEyeDyck]

86. K& R 240+ n/t

[tango-tee]

87. K&R! Third generation union member checking in!

Solidarity.

[billyoc]

88. I'll just be over here in the tall grass, planning my vengeance.

[democracy1st]

89. K & R

[The Doctor.]

90. Hurting unions hurts the nation.

We're in trouble, and it ain't gonna get better if we don't reestablish unions.

[winyanstaz]

91. K & R...

I stand for the unions!

[Norrin Radd]

92. kr

[leveymg]

94. Senate proves again it's a millionaire's club that transfers all wealth to the rich

[pecwae]

95. A kick as well.

I stand with the unions and for the people.

[NecklyTyler]

96. K&R

[Enthusiast]

97. We (the Democrats) are coming at

this from the wrong angle. We should regulate the fuck out of the insurance industry like the Dutch do. Otherwise we should adopt a pure socialist system. I ask you, who in the fuck is in charge of this country, we the people or the sleazy corporations that have brought us to ruin?

[Vermontgrown]

98. The sonsof bitches in

DC can go after the rich. Organized labor is not an easy target. Washington will end up with mud on their faces if they keep this up. I'm all for unions, and if people would organize their own shops, it could happen for them too. Organize for christsakes. That's the one way to battle with the powers that be. "Tax the rich".....

[Faryn Balyncd]

99. k and r

[golddigger]

100. K&R

:kick:

[Kermitt Gribble]

101. K&R! n/t

[penndragon69]

102. K&R

Tax the rich.
Stop paying social security and medicare to millionaires.
Raise the inherited wealth tax to 60%....tell paris hilton to take her
mere $5 million dollars and create her own empire, that or learn how to give exact
change at the drive up window at Taco Bell!

Take all this extra money and put it into national single payer HC
and refill the social security trust fund.

Who care what the rich think....they're traitors anyway.

[freddie mertz]

103. I stand with the unions. No scabs on me, my friends.

And shame on those so-called Democrats who would sacrifice the hard-won benefits of the middle-class, working people on the altar or political expediency.

Seriously, this shit ticks me off.

[LWolf]

105. K & R nt

[sfnative]

108. K&R

Because I hate the word "Cadillac" applied to healthcare. Healthcare isn't a luxury item you buy to impress your neighbors.

[rucky]

109. yep.

[blueworld]

111. Absolutely

For the last 8 years rich trust-fund babies & investment beneficiaries (most of whom do not "work" for weekly income) have benefited from a variety of tax-cuts, lessening the "burden" on them in order to generate gazillions of jobs for us. Apparently there was a huge flaw in that plan.

I would like to see Congress grab that tax revenue back - it isn't "raising" taxes, simply restoring them. Stimulate their economies a little.

Don't forget people this Cadillac tax is on the cost of the total benefits packages we have. If a company offers a PPO or Cafeteria Plan, those can be considered "higher priced" because of their flexibility - even the ones that only reimburse 50% for out-of-network. If a "Vision" Plan is offered separately, that will drive up the "cost". The myriad combinations of crappy plus really great plans & diverse offerings make this tax a nightmare for working stiffs.

[Harry Monroe]

112. K&R

[Bluzmann57]

113. These plans are not "entitlements"

or anything resembling that. We worked our asses off for the so called "Cadillac Plans". So the politicians have no right to tax something we have worked so hard for.

[invictus]

114. K&R

[Bluenorthwest]

115. Union for decades and standing with them always

Because if it were not for my Unions, flawed as they are, I'd be fucked six ways to Sunday.

[Iggo]

116. "Rec this thread if..."?

Aw, now you're just asking for it. :P

[AlbertCat]

117. It's so simple!

Just tax everybody and then offer everybody some health care....


Oh wait.... that's universal single payer....off the table from the start.... never mind...


This million page labyrinth of a bill is complicated for one reason only. It's reform while trying not to change anything. It's absurd and doomed from the get go.

[earth mom]

118. Huge K & R!

:kick:

[GinaMaria]

120. I stand with workers, both union and non union

This is enough for me to push to kill the bill.

[RoccoR5955]

126. K&R as a union member

CSEA Local 1000 in NY.

[Meshuga]

127. Done! I wrote my representative (Chris Van Hollen) and I am hoping...

...More people are doing the same.

[mamaleah]

128. K&R. I guess for some it's not enough to beat the class warfare drum, they need to beat the same

drum within one class. Stop trying to turn middleclass people on each other. Very few unions offer "Cadillac" plans anymore and the places that do....well would you want their job? Either working in a factory of teaching puking, sneezing, messy, 2nd graders? Yeah good times...

Stop thinking anything will ever 100% equal. Even in Canada, EVERYONE employed pays into the national hc. But don't think for a minute the wealthy wait in the same line as the poor at the same clinic.

[undergroundnomore]

130. I agree..everyone equal

I am a teacher but since I teach in a "Right to work" state teachers unions have no power or authority of any real kind. They pretty much rubber stamp whatever the school board says.

The thing is I want EVERYONE to be covered. EVERYONE. You know, that would include every man, woman, and child!!!!

I know this is going to sound like I'm pouting for that pony I want but I want the public option for EVERYONE. I don't want some go without. That's what this whole crazy business that we're dealing with now is looking like.

I mean I would call it a health care bill but then again I could simply paint stripes on a horse and call it a zebra. Calling it something doesn't make it what it isn't. This is not a health care bill. Not in any real sense. All the while as I sit here keying on my keyboard people are DYING because we don't have health care reform.

I've got an idea. Let's all have the same kind of health care that CONGRESS gets. That's a great idea.

I'm sorry if I'm getting angry but I just feel so damn helpless.

[patrice]

129. Kick & Can some Progressive Populist Labor candidates step forward and RAISE HELL, please!!

[Eyerish]

131. K&R n/t

[Yavapai]

132. I only regret that I have but one K & R to give....

[DKRC]

133. 400!

:woohoo:

[me b zola]

134. K&R

[Dinger]

135. Afternoon Kick (nt)

[Sunnyshine]

136. K&R for solidarity! nt

[DebbieCDC]

137. K&R

Union yes!

Kill the Bill!!

[NaturalHigh]

138. Reccomended.

[arthritisR_US]

141. no brainer. n/t

[highplainsdem]

144. Thanks, everyone! Solidarity!

:yourock:

:toast:

[Nailzberg]

146. Kick!