Why was Aristide ousted?

[CatWoman]

a coworker told me that it was at the behest of the Haitian people.

However, during my ride home, on the local progressive station, it was reported that he was first dethroned by the Clinton administration, brought back, and then was the victim of an overthrowing devised by Chimpy/the CIA and the French.

I don't remember Clinton taking him out of power. Nor why.

:shrug:

[KittyWampus]

1. I thought Clinton helped airlift him out for his own safety... he was ousted several times, no?

[bemildred]

2. Cheap labor, he wanted people to get paid more. nt

[Robbien]

3. In 91 Aristide was overthrown, then Clinton brought in military and reinstated him

Bush in 2004 brought in Blackwater thugs and ousted Aristide.

[struggle4progress]

50. Yep. Aristide was ousted twice: first under Bush I, then again under Bush II

[scarletwoman]

4. I hope some of our great DU researchers will weigh in on this thread.

Personally, I don't quite remember the details, all I remember is how outraged I was at the time, due to the clear and egregious bullshit corrupt neocon geopolitics that was behind Aristide's ouster.

It seems to me that it had quite a bit to do with pushing Haiti into cooperating with the corporate globalist agenda -- giving free rein to multinationals to conduct their business without interference from Haitian government regulations and domestic protections. It also had to do with keeping Haiti open for money laundering and as an unpoliced transit point for the bigtime drug traffickers (think, CIA).

Aristide had the temerity to seek real sovereignty for Haiti -- like, control of its own economic destiny. Obviously that's something greatly frowned upon by the global financial elite and proponents of Capitalist Shock Doctrine.

Sorry I don't have any documented details or links to site. This is just what I remember thinking about the situation when it was going down.

sw

[inna]

30. wow. thank you very much for insights. nt

[Mr Rabble]

5. Military coup supported by the US.

He was a priest, and a populist. There was significant political organizing by the rabble in the early 90's, while the military junta running things was going to "transition" to a "democratic" government. By democratic of course I mean a government hand picked by the US.
Aristide ran against a former World Bank official, who the CIA was confident would win. He lost, badly.

US policy toward Haiti changed overnight, and extensive efforts were made to remove Aristide, against the overwhelming will of the Haitian people.

After the eventual coup, Aristide was basically told that he could either be returned to "power" to do the bidding of US corporations, or him and everyone he knew would be slaughtered.

Whatever happened after that is a joke, as it was all at the behest of the US and specifically the CIA.

If you go back and look at some of the "news" articles of the day, the propaganda was so crude, and so easy to uncover, that it makes you wonder just how asleep at the wheel people are to have not understood what was happening.

On edit-

Here is an excellent article which sheds some light on our role in Haiti.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Haiti/US_Haiti_Chomsky.html

[Cleita]

6. Yep, same reason other populist Presidents in Latin America are ousted by

our government spurred by American business interests. We must have dictators friendly to our brand of democracy. This is why they really want Chavez out.

[stray cat]

11. I assume you would be happy moving to Venezuela then - since Chavez is such a wonderful populist?

[ima_sinnic]

16. just because someone says something positive about Chavez, they want to "move there"?

and why don't you educate yourself instead of posting moronic bullshit? sheesh. and you're a "democrat"? try to post something besides superficial knee-jerk talking points, because otherwise, your posts just ain't worth reading--I can see the same shit in dime-store propaganda rags.

[madokie]

20. Thank you for that

[CatWoman]

17. don't make me neuter you

:)

[defendandprotect]

24. Assume you'd be happy to suffer what Haiti has suffer as a result of US/CIA policy?

And that criminally corrupt capitalism --- corporate fascism -- may one day soon

have you looking to excape US policies--!!!

At least that's the direction we're going in these days . . .!!

[polly7]

27. Chavez makes sure his people eat and have the right to read,

own land and profit from their own resources. Makes me laugh every time I see him demonized. Read up on how the people of Venezuela lived before he came to power.

[rbixby]

44. I don't get why he's demonized either

He's doing the will of the people, if the people of Venezuela are strongly leftist, then so should their leader be.

[laughingliberal]

53. It's a huge propaganda campaign from the right wing because he has dared to stand up to the

corporations and the elite who would exploit the resources of the country without giving anything back. You know, like they do here.

[naaman fletcher]

56. "his people"

thats all we need to know.

[Cleita]

33. Been in Venezuela before Chavez. Lived in Chile before Pinnochet.

I know how USA hegemony works in South America. I wouldn't want to live in Venezuela because I'm not fond of tropical climates not because of Chavez. I know it's a much better place now than when I visited it before the poor and working classes got a voice in government via Chavez.

[a la izquierda]

41. For the love of pete...

you totally missed Cleita's point. I agree, see something even remotely positive and jump all over someone.
The US has overthrown countless democratically elected Latin American dictators. That WAS the point of her post.
Aristide, like Arbenz and Allende, had popular support and were "communists" or "socialists". They were taken out.

[laughingliberal]

52. Yep. I'm about ready to go anywhere to get out of here

and they have a president who is attempting to restore economic fairness to his country. The disparity in wealth when he was elected was obscene. Not far from where we're about to be, actually.

That said, I'm too old and poor for most countries to allow me to emigrate so I'm stuck here where poverty still seems to be a crime.

[malaise]

26. Partly true

The French also wanted him out because he started reminding them of the debts owed to Haiti.

[defendandprotect]

21. YES.... who was the murderous group the CIA was supporting???

Forgot to say "Thank you" -- !!!

-- Constant and FRAPH . . . CIA supported murderers --

Aristide headed a populist uprising . . .

Aristide was a Catholic priest who also stood against the Vatican and its policies

. . . i.e., same old story: "A Rich Church - A Poor People" --

The punishment of Haiti became much more severe under Bush II-there are differences within the narrow spectrum of cruelty and greed. Aid was cut and international institutions were pressured to do likewise, under pretexts too outlandish to merit discussion. They are extensively reviewed in Paul Farmer's The Uses of Haiti, and in some current press commentary, notably by Jeffrey Sachs (Financial Times) and Tracy Kidder (New York Times).

Putting details aside, what has happened since is eerily similar to the overthrow of Haiti's first democratic government in 1991. The Aristide government, once again, was undermined by U.S. planners, who understood, under Clinton, that the threat of democracy can be overcome if economic sovereignty is eliminated and presumably also understood that economic development will also be a faint hope under such conditions, one of the best confirmed lessons of economic history. Bush II planners are even more dedicated to undermining democracy and independence and despised Aristide and the popular organizations that swept him to power with perhaps even more passion than their predecessors. The forces that reconquered the country are mostly inheritors of the U.S.-installed army and paramilitary terrorists.

Those who are intent on diverting attention from the U.S. role will object that the situation is more complex-as is always true-and that Aristide too was guilty of many crimes. Correct, but if he had been a saint the situation would hardly have developed very differently, as was evident in 1994, when the only real hope was that a democratic revolution in the U.S. would make it possible to shift policy in a more civilized direction.

What is happening now is awful, maybe beyond repair, and there is plenty of short-term responsibility on all sides. But the right way for the U.S. and France to proceed is very clear. They should begin with payment of enormous reparations to Haiti (France is perhaps even more hypocritical and disgraceful in this regard than the U.S.). That, however, requires construction of functioning democratic societies in which, at the very least, people have a prayer of knowing what's going on. Commentary on Haiti, Iraq, and other "failed societies" is quite right in stressing the importance of overcoming the "democratic deficit" that substantially reduces the significance of elections. It does not, however, draw the obvious corollary: the lesson applies in spades to a country where "politics is the shadow cast on society by big business," in the words of America's leading social philosopher, John Dewey, describing his own country in days when the blight had spread nowhere near as far as it has today.

For those who are concerned with the substance of democracy and human rights, the basic tasks at home are also clear enough. They have been carried out before, with no slight success, and under incomparably harsher conditions elsewhere, including the slums and hills of Haiti. We do not have to submit, voluntarily, to living in a failed state suffering from an enormous democratic deficit.




Further as I recall the history of Haiti -- they freed themselves from slavery -- and that

was a threat to US interests. Didn't they also help us fight our Revolution?

Can't do a search on this right now so consider vague recall until someone else checks.

Again, violence and damage by our infamous CIA -- and American imperialism.

[malaise]

40. Great post

You should post this on its own.

[anonymous171]

31. Wow thanks for the info. nt

[madrchsod]

7. Clinton Haiti and Rwanda......

http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/haiti-a-clinton-catastrophe/

http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/1498

according to samantha power who wrote this article about clinton and rwanda the problem in haiti had an effect on clinton`s actions in rwanda

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200109/power-genocide

the same samantha power who called hillary clinton a monster and was fired from obama`s team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Power


i heard on the radio tonight that haiti did`t have a functioning economy before the quake. 80% of the economy was based on aide from the rest of the world and the rest was basically barter. maybe two years before the society recovers to pre quake status.

[Mr Rabble]

9. More like 100 years.

Haiti is every bit as devastated as was Vietnam. Unlike Vietnam, there is no China, nor anyone else that is willing to try to help.

Haiti was already to poorest country in the hemisphere, and it basically just had a H bomb dropped on it.

[Mimosa]

Madrchsod, EXCELLENT information

Some of us remember what Clinton and his pals did to set Haiti back. This link you posted is solid info:

http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/haiti-a-clinton-catastrophe

[CatWoman]

14. yes, it is most excellent

thanks, Madrchsod :hi:

[KittyWampus]

10. What I learned about Rwanda on DU- it is where France gets its uranium.

[Octafish]

8. It was at the behest of the BFEE

Bush and Co. wanted Dope Inc up and running. Details:

Haiti: Drugs, Thugs, the CIA, and the Deterrence of Democracy

I met Jean Bertrand-Aristide after he was deposed by the generals in the early 90s. He came to metro Detroit and spoke before the Cranbrook Peace Foundation.

The newspaper I then worked for didn’t see any reason for sending me to cover Aristide’s speech. The editors weren’t BFEE, but the events on a Caribbean island just weren’t “local” enough for their budget. So, I went on my own time.

The Cranbrook people were happy to see me. They wanted, of course, as much coverage as possible. So, they invited me and the other interested reporter types to have at him for an hour before his address.

I’m ashamed to report, at an important event in two nation’s larger media market, only a couple of CBC radio reporters out of Windsor and one local Detroit TV crew bothered to show. I was the lone print guy. Anyway…

Aristide answered every question asked in English or French. He also told us about life in Haiti, where there were four doctors to care for 4 million people. Another interesting stat: One percent of the population own 99-percent of the property.

I asked Aristide what the United States could do to help him restore democracy to Haiti? Aristide said all Poppy Doc Bush had to do was pick up the phone, call the generals and say, “Get out,” and they would quit their coup and the first democratically elected leader of Haiti in 75 years would be returned to power. Bush didn't and Aristide wasn't until Clinton sent the US Marines, many years and many Haitian lives later.

The reason for Bush Senior's inaction? Aristide said he didn’t know the answer, but he suspected Bush’s politics favored the landowners over the masses. (“Sounds familiar,” I then thought and still think today.)

Aristide said that the generals were deep into the wholesale cocaine importation business. Now who would be their partner in all that? Besides the wealthy landowners, for whom the Generals worked, I mean.

You know who wrote extensively about this at the time of the second coup, Super Cat? One of the best to peck at a keyboard in the Great Information War.... She gave a damn about Haiti, long before it was in the news.

[scarletwoman]

Thank you, Octafish -- you're a treasure!

Thank you for keeping all those links! I know I read every single one at the time.

:loveya:
sw

[Octafish]

19. Same goes for you, scarletwoman! Here's the takeaway from Haiti that affects us all in the USA...

In Haiti, one percent of the population own 99-percent of the property.
What Aristide was going to do is tax them on it.
Like that would ever happen here, either.

[EFerrari]

36. And they ran the same game plan in Honduras.

We should never think for a moment that the suffering our owners impose on others is reserved only for others.

[CatWoman]

15. thanks Octi

I should have asked you first :)

:hi:

[Octafish]

22. You're welcome, CatWoman! Thank you for my second smile today.

Here's the kind of stuff we can learn on DU in 2004...

After the second coup against Aristide, Caribbean people and nations stand firm for Haiti. Of course, they talked big, but, in the end, the opponents to the coup let the BFEE get their drug-dealing, warmongering way.

Edit: Miscounted.

[CatWoman]

23. you're just a regular fountain of knowledge

:)

[Matariki]

47. +1

my bet is that cocaine is a big factor. I never thought it was a coincidence that the bush sons were governors of border states that have rates of high drug smuggling.

[laughingliberal]

54. "Bush’s politics favored the landowners over the masses. (“Sounds familiar,” ...)"

Exactly the issue Chavez has in Venezuela. With no estate taxes a few families have held the country's land and resources in perpetuity. A few wealthy people and corporations control all the wealth while the masses starve. We, here, have been on that path a while and, soon, this will be more familiar than most of us want to acknowledge.

edited punctuation

[stray cat]

12. Info from Paul Farmer who lived and served there at the time

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v26/n08/paul-farmer/who-removed-aristide

[pscot]

13. Umm, Because he was an asshole?

According to Wikipedia, he won reelection in 2004 when only 10% of the electorate turned out to vote. And that was followed by lots of protests. He was a defrocked priest. The Salesians alledgedly dumped him for preaching violence. I recall that news accounts from the Clinton years portrayed him as demanding and difficult. Maybe that was just bad press, but I seem to remember that he had a reputation for rubbing out people who didn't see eye to eye with him politically. At that, he was probably a big improvement over the Duvalliers.

[ima_sinnic]

18. gee, Wikipedia is SUCH a credible source. NObody with a political agenda ever puts anything in there

Do you have anything besides propaganda?

[pscot]

25. Nope. Just the standard agit-prop

:P

[EFerrari]

46. No, because CIA decided he had to go.

[AnnieBW]

28. Because he wouldn't play nice with the corporations

So Poppy Bush had him removed.

[laughingliberal]

55. The complete and total reason

Period. Americans will swallow anything. We've been participating in overthrowing democratically elected leaders in other countries and installing the fascists since the 80's. And, somehow, we think the fascists haven't taken over our country.

[defendandprotect]

29. k

[amborin]

32. why was SeemsLikeADream tombstoned?

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. Violation od DU rules

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. He/she posted a lot of hate speech.

[slipslidingaway]

34. knr nt

[bertman]

38. I think that Haiti is the ultimate object lesson that black people who throw off their

imperialist yoke will be punished severely until the fucking end of time--or until Jesus shows up to save them.

Thanks to the folks who provided info about the U.S. efforts to keep Haiti subjugated and impoverished.

Rec.

Edit for spelling.

[EFerrari]

39. Randall Robinson tells the story here:

http://www.booktv.org/Watch/8620/An+Unbroken+Agony+Haiti+From+Revolution+to+the+Kidnapping+of+a+President.aspx

[Overseas]

51. Excellent. Thank you! //nt

[peekaloo]

42. but but Andrea Greenspan said just last night that it was Colin Powell

who helped restore "democracy" to Haiti in 2004, with nary a mention (surprise) of the coup.

Since Octafish and others have pretty much answered I needed to belch this up.

p.s. Amy Goodman did a nice job covering the overthrow, then and now. :-)

[rasputin1952]

43. Pretty good shot of the story here:

http://www.pipeline.com/~rougeforum/aristede.html

<snip>

"...exiled Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide charged Monday that the United States had forced him to leave in what he described as a "coup d'etat" and "kidnapping."

<snip>

U.S. officials have said that Aristide asked for Washington's help in leaving the country when he realized Saturday night that he could not safely stay. They maintained that Aristide approached U.S. officials about 9 p.m. Saturday to inquire about help, and by midnight, after consulting his family, had agreed to leave and to sign a letter of resignation.

<snip>



Aristide is known for his skill at using the international news media to his political advantage. In his interview with CNN, he said he would be "very delighted" to come to the U.S. to "tell the truth" about what had been inflicted on him by Washington.

[Matariki]

45. George W. Bush

and his fucking family.

and I'm not kidding.

[bananas]

48. Amy Goodman and Dennis Bernstein did extensive reporting on this

Search www.democracynow.org and www.flashpoints.net

[EFerrari]

49. Aside from my #39 and your post, Thom did a good job this morning.

How can so many of us not know this history. It baffles me.

ETA: And I don't mean you, CatWoman. I mean, so many of us.

[Quantess]

57. Interesting.

[pnorman]

58. Here's one DU thread on Aristide

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7463588

On the strength of that, I earmarked the Aristide DVD for order at Amazon.

[pnorman]

59. Here's a related DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7463588