NAFTA and GATT need to be gutted or there will be no jobs and no recovery

[upi402]

Can't we walk and chew gum at the same time? The Republicans were spewing repressive legislation and policies like a firehose.

We need to realize that outsourcing and off-shoring our jobs has gutted our consumer base and tax base. A rising tides float boats. With no manufacturing raw materials, and selling those goods to other nations - there will be no relative wealth for America.

Trickle-down economics has turned out to be just wealthy folks pissing on American working families.

The silence about trade reform, election reform, and campaign finance reform is screaming to me that the Democratic Party is just the other side of the same damn coin. Has anybody else been frustrated by this inaction?

[Craftsman]

1. AGREED!!!!!!!!!

[Earth_First]

2. Urec'd?!

Unbelievable.

[OhioChick]

3. Nothing surprises me, anymore.

K&R

[upi402]

4. Me too

I'm too liberal for a liberal forum. Where do I go... away? My party left me years ago, I've stayed in place, or moved slightly right with age. This site makes me aware of the effect of propaganda in the media, moving Americans to the right.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. The dance floor feels tilted, doesn't it?

It's hard to keep one's balance. :thumbsup:

[gateley]

6. I don't think it's liberals who are doing the unreccing - I almost wonder if

someone wrote a program to automatically unrec every new post, because even whack losers can't sit all day long doing it manually.

[HughBeaumont]

26. My ignore toilet is LOADED with Free-Trader Laissez-Failures.

The "Big Tent" can kick these jokes out right quick. Devaluing degrees and hard work, approving slave-labor corporatism and destroying worker progress are NOT progressive values.

[leftstreet]

7. It's a Jobless Recovery!

Get with the program

:silly:

[mkultra]

89. whatever that means

[brentspeak]

8. Maintain free trade with Canada; end it with Mexico

Canada is an honest trading partner, but the Mexican oligarchies maintain plantation-living standards for Mexican workers, an ideal paradise for short-term profit-hungry American companies to staff their relocated facilities.

[newspeak]

80. actually, I believe two of the lawsuits were filed by Canada

One was an oil company in California who contaminated drinking water with benzene-California told them to get out and they filed a lawsuit (and of course won and given our money). And the other, I believe was a chain funeral home who undercutted costs and did "short cuts" to drive out a family owned funeral home whose family had been in the business for years.

These trade policies as written, give more power to corporations against communities, labor and environment. There is nothing in the agreements to allow the people's welfare over corporate profit. And, when you're talking about Mexico, you need to read some things that the so-called American companies are doing down there in terms of polluting and extreme labor violations.

[quabbin]

9. NAFTA, Globalism, "Free Trade", it's self inflicted madness

You are spot on about this. The free trade agreements were destined from the beginning to be like a corrosive fluid eroding the base of our economy. My reaction all those years ago when this was being sold to the American people by both parties was WTF? I remember the utter nonsense of it all, the pro free trade argument that sending millions of U.S. manufacturing jobs overseas to cheap labor countries was somehow going to create jobs here. It was an absurd argument then and remains so today. Our Founding Fathers realized the necessity for a tariff system on imported goods. They knew it was a priority to protect the American workforce from the ravages of competing with slave labor overseas. Like Perot said 17 years ago, "Are you sure you want a global economy? There are people in this world willing to work for $2 a day. Are Americans willing to work for $2 a day?"

You are correct that there can be no significant recovery until the devastating economic consequences of so called "Free Trade" are dealt with. I do not see this as a priority of the current administration. Even many in the progressive media seem to have an attitude of resignation regarding this issue. I hear too many people with the attitude: "The jobs are gone and not coming back". If the majority of Americans believe this is all irreversible, then we are truly screwed.

[invictus]

10. K&R

[Elwood P Dowd]

11. Where is the DU group of 3 that always show up to defend our government's insane

free trade and outsourcing policies? Are they late getting their daily talking points from Neil Cavuto, Fred Barnes, and James Glassman?

[upi402]

12. Maybe they're on their way to help in Haiti

NOT!

This disaster in Haiti will be exploited to provide cover for all sorts of betrayal against American workers. I'd been a month's wages... if I had a job.

[Elwood P Dowd]

16. They are probably too busy reading The Weekly Standard or

watching Fox News.

[HughBeaumont]

28. Yes, that would be "my ignore list"

Usually see more than a few "Ignored"s in these kind of threads from Bewsh loop-jumpers. The DU Free Trader contingent can GET TA STEPPIN'.

[northzax]

37. i notice you have an Apple logo as your avatar

odd that someone so anti-globalism would advertise his allegiance to one of the great outsourcing companies in the world. where's your imac made, champ? how about that nice new ipod? sure ain't at One Infinite Loop in Cupertino. Heck, Apple doesn't even own manufacturing facilities, everything is contracted out to manufacturers in Asia, your iPod is made by Hon Hai Precision Industries in Shenzen (it must be a fun place, that walled factory town, they also make PS2s, Wiis, Motorola and Nokia phones, and even Dell laptops) yes, one factory makes products for Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, Nokia, Motorola and Dell), your laptop by Asustek Computers of Taipei. heck even the 'designed in california' depends on roughly 300 new H1B visas a year making their way to Cupertino.

so, how do you reconcile that?

[northzax]

38. i notice you have an Apple logo as your avatar

odd that someone so anti-globalism would advertise his allegiance to one of the great outsourcing companies in the world. where's your imac made, champ? how about that nice new ipod? sure ain't at One Infinite Loop in Cupertino. Heck, Apple doesn't even own manufacturing facilities, everything is contracted out to manufacturers in Asia, your iPod is made by Hon Hai Precision Industries in Shenzen (it must be a fun place, that walled factory town, they also make PS2s, Wiis, Motorola and Nokia phones, and even Dell laptops) yes, one factory makes products for Microsoft, Apple, Nintendo, Nokia, Motorola and Dell), your laptop by Asustek Computers of Taipei. heck even the 'designed in california' depends on roughly 300 new H1B visas a year making their way to Cupertino.

so, how do you reconcile that?

[winyanstaz]

71. maybe he just likes apples :)

[AuntPatsy]

13. I couldn't agree more..way past time for those to be extinguished..

[defendandprotect]

14. Why aren't the unions after that one .... ???? BIG ISSUE for all of us -- !!!

But as I recall ... Obama has said he won't even look at amending or reforming them?????

Anyone else remember that?


PS: And would just add to the trade agreements which happened on Clinton's watch mainly . . . ????

that the entire system of capitalism is intended to move the wealth and resources of a nation from

the many to the FEW. That's what we have to begin with --

And even beyond basic capitalism, unregulated capitalism which we've been suffering since they

began knocking out the New Deal is merely organized crime.

How many Americans still believe in capitalism?

Sadly they're taught in our schools that capitalism and democracy are snyonymous --

They are not!

They are antonymous -- !!

[upi402]

17. Unions fought hard BEFORE it went into effect. Clinton/Gore fought us

TV News fought the unions. The only pundit allowed to debate against NAFTA was goofy Ross perot. Gore trounced him on CNN. Hilary was for NAFTA too.

[Elwood P Dowd]

19. Pat Buchanan was one of the few repukes to speak out against it.

Sadly, dems such as Bill Richardson, Robert Rubin, and Bill Bradley were huge supporters.

[defendandprotect]

22. That still doesn't make Pat Buchanan a good guy -- !!!

The man is a sexist, racist, homophobic pig --

a religous fanatic --

and quite a right wing propagandist --

The CIA supported him with right wing funding --

Allegedly the CIA will take right wing money from any oganization -- including the KKK.

They supported Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Jerry Ford -- among others.

[Elwood P Dowd]

24. I never said he was a good guy.

Just pointing out who was for and against NAFTA.

[defendandprotect]

30. True -- you didn't . . . and Buchanan certainly isn't -- !!

[upi402]

25. Yep, seeing Pat Buchanan and Gerry Brown on the same side of an issue

was an Alice In Wonderland moment! Gerry Brown was seldom on air and was derided as "Governor Moonbeam" and labelled "Liberal" as if it was a dirty word.

[defendandprotect]

21. Hillary and Gore are DLC . . . naturally they were for slave labor competing with Americans...

for jobs!!

However, there have long been discussions of overturning these agreements and/or

at least amending them!

That has to still be fought -- !!

[blue_onyx]

27. What about the fact...

that liberal senators like Kennedy and Kerry voted for NAFTA too? It's odd that only the Clintons (one of whom wasn't even an elected offical) and Gore that get blamed. Half of the Democrats went along with it. The problem is so many, including many on DU, have bought into "free trade" and Reaganomics. I don't see fair trade coming any time soon.

[upi402]

29. I didn't vote for Kerry because he was for NAFTA

That Skull and Bones corporatist was tossing my vote in the rubbish can, I felt.

[defendandprotect]

33. Unfortunately, I agree with you re future of "fair trade" especially with Obama ....

and his corporatist record thus far --

Yes . . . most of the Dem Party folded to these slave trade agreements which are

so damaging to our citizens and our nation. BUT that is what we have been calling

attention to in the co-optiong of the Democratic Party by corporations.

Couldn't be any clearer.

And, yes, Ted was not as reliably liberal as he once was -- another whole set of problems

there -- possibly personal intimidation?

Basically, there shouldn't be any one left still supporting capitalism -- leave alone

unregulated capitalism -- or these trade agreements.

Which is why we have to open another window on our political situation and let some fresh

air in -- if there's any left!!

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime --

[liberation]

56. Simple answer: That is because there is not a single elected official in either house from the left

And by left I mean proper left, not center-left, None, zilch, zero, nada.


The closest we have is center-left people like Kucinich in the house, and Sanders in the senate.

We are talking single digits of people here. Now, imagine that in the best of cases we have 10 center-left fellows. If you work out the percentage out of a total of 435 + 100 congresspeople and senators, it comes to a pathetic 1.8% of the members of our legislative branch can be considered as subscribing to a moderate leftist set of ideas . I am not talking actual hard core left, like organized labor in Europe.

Now, everywhere else in the industrialized world. The left is a significant majority of the voting public, since the left represents the interests of the middle and lower working classes... which surprise, surprise it is the largest segment of the population. Now in those places, the right is the ideology for the reactionary elites interested in concentrating and preserving wealth (and by proxy the status quo). And as such, it is associated with the moneyed sector of the population, which tends to be a very small minority. That is why the right tends to organize political parties around social/religious views not socio-economic policies, like the Demochristians all through the EU, which effectively use religious views to increase their membership and as such provide a conduit for the rich people over there to have a disproportionate representation.

The interesting thing, is that in Europe they consider anything over 40% of rightwing votes as it being a call for attention: how can parties which mainly represent the true interest of less than 10% of the population manage to capture 40% of the overall vote?

Now think about all this for a second. When we consider we have a situation in the US which is more severe: The wealth divide in our nation is far far far greater in this country (1% owning over 40% of the overall wealth) than in the EU, therefore the right really represents the interests of less than 5% of our population. Yet conservatives manage to capture basically half of the votes, and the really shocking figure, they have 98.2% of the elected representatives and senators (I am including centrists in that figure, because the political compass in this country is so grossly tilted towards the right that our centrists are really center-right politicians elsewhere).

Let this sink for a second: in our country, over 95% of the legislative branch represent the interests of less than 5% of the population. And if you notice the fact that this figure is nothing new, that these proportions have been pretty much constant for the past 4 decades. I submit to you, that this country has been under de-facto rightwing rule for a while (in some cases totalitarian even, that certainly puts the constitutional transgressions of Bush and Cheney in perspective).


This is why WallStreet got trillions to pay off their bets, and that is why they wanted to add insult to injury and they forced Congress to tell Detroit (one of the last remnants of a production-based strong middle class) to suck congress's left nut to get a pittance that was literally a drop in the bucket vs what the banksters just got.

This is why a supposedly health care "reform" ended up in such a clusterfuck for the average citizen. Tell me people, just fucking tell me where else in the world do you think such a feat would even be remotely possible: the majority of the population is adversely affected by the current system, they clamor the government to fix it, and the government "fixes" it by making the system even worse for the average citizen while actually making it better for the insurance companies, which were the responsible parties for the crisis to begin with. And all of this has been done with absolutely ZERO consequences. Wether Dems or the GOP wins the next midterm elections, 95% of the legislative branch will continue having the back of the top 5% of the population. So as I said, ZERO consequences. The worst part? The idiots who have sunk so low as useful idiots that have to recourse to what amounts to black mail as the only electoral value proposition for the Dems: "Oh noes, if you don't vote for us the GOP will win and they are realllllllly baaaaaaaad!" LOL Idiots...


This is why you will not see a single damned action to regulate the banks. This is why, we can kiss our manufacturing base good bye. This is why all those jobs are not likely to come back. This is why we will continue getting great speeches from Obama while not a single significant piece of liberal legislation is passed. This is why we will have eternal wars, because these morons don't know how to make money unless they are blowing poor people up. Etc, Etc. In fact, I dare anyone present a list of concrete meaningful change and actual any major and significant legislation that can be considered remotely progressive or unabashedly oriented at reinstate the power of the middle-class. If they can come up with more than one (or two if Obama gets two terms)... once this presidency is over, I will be pleasantly surprised. Fuck it, I'd be so happy that beers will be on me for all DU.

So we can bitch and moan, we can huff and puff, we can get all the wonderful campaign slogans that we want, we can do all that interpretative daces for peace and equality and all of that. And that won't change the fact that under the current situation the left in this country, you know the guys who tend to be unconditionally pro-peace, pro-labor, pro-social justice, pro-human rights, pro-education for all, pro-healthy and prosperous populations.... you know "those guys" only controls 2% of the legislative branch. Until the middle and lower classes realize that, we are less than powerless we are useless to our own interests.

Now, I am not saying left political positions are without their own sets of issues, no political ethos is perfect and a diversity of political leanings is paramount for a healthy and working democracy. But with such infinitesimal representation, we can make a very good case that the majority of the US population (middle and lower classes) is technically being taxed without much in the way of representation.

So in the end the joke is firmly planted on us. They are laughing all the way to the bank, Americans at large are some of the biggest morons on planet earth (hard working bunch though, we have that going for us, and a very basic level we are decent people... but we are dumb, dumb motherfuckers). Too dumb to realize that our earning power has been frozen for the better part of the past 2 decades. Too dumb to realize we just witnessed just about the single largest transfer of wealth, in pretty much the history of man kind (again we have that going for us, we are good at records!). Too dumb to even figure out that congress and senate just mooned us and gave us the middle finger respectively with the whole health care "reform" nonsense. Rinse, and repeat...

Oh America, what could have been... I guess I was born too late, Reagan was just getting started when I came to be... so I don't remember what this place must have been before....

[bvar22]

73. Well Done!

:patriot:

There are members of DU who call Kucinich and Sanders "Fringe Leftists" and his supporters "Trotskyites".
They have no fucking clue.
They are doing the dirty work for the "Fringe Elite".



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[liberation]

87. Thanks, sorry for the rant though...

... but it simply gets me how the left is basically non-existent in this country. And the few timid leftist politicians are labelled as "ultra-left" just makes me cringe. Having lived overseas may probably have shaped my views. But honestly, it is frightening to me that very fact: how completely and totally under represented the vast majority of Americans really are.


Just to put things in perspective, the so-called "representatives" of the supposedly liberal party in Congress and the Senate are: a wealthy San Francisco socialite who hasn't had to do an honest day of work in her entire life, and a jackass mormon fundamentalist who associates growing a spine to stand with the common man with reduced revenues for his campaign.

The view during the election wasn't that much better: the two front runners for the same "supposedly liberal" party were a lady who was the former president of the College Republicans chapter in her Alma Mater (During the Watergate years no less), and a charlatan who admitted Reagan (basically the most reactionary American president in the XX century) was his political idol.


But hey, "we have to vote Dem or else the baaaaaad GOP will win and the kittens will get it"


In fact, if you look at the demographics in both houses, you can see that the largest collective being represented are millionaires. Which is the smallest minority in America. That most people don't get such a basic fact is what compounds this joke. Fucking sad collection of idiots we have become.

What I don't get is why people act naively. I mean, how much bold faced could they get that when they were throwing proponents of single payer in jail, who had committed no crime other than expecting to be able to participate in a dialogue. Again, I don't think people in American (and especially a large portion in this website) have stopped to think about that. In any other country, the government doing that (throwing people in jail just for wanting to participate or observe the debate) during a health care reform... it would have led to riots and general strikes. Instead, we sat pretty and now we are wondering "oh, what happened how come the bill is so 'bad' we could have never see this coming..." The sad part of all this, it is the hordes of idiots who still ask people to shut up and not rock the boat, lest the massah not throw us some crumbs for dinner tonite. What a sad pathetic bunch....

There needs to be a serious sit down in America, and look in the mirror. Until we take an actual stock of our situation.... as I said, we will be useless. We will continue voting for the evil of two lessers, and we continue lacking any sort of representation while having to waste our lives with 3 jobs to make end meets and meet our taxation loads.

[bikingaz]

90. Repeat after me Obama's tune - It's all GWB's fault

Sorry folks, the Dems have been screwing us as much as the Repubs.
What we need is new blood in Washington and vote the current crop of rascals out.

[kenny blankenship]

86. That just shows how far over to the right the political spectrum in America is skewed

When your "left" is composed of, and championed by millionaires, the born-rich who never had to worry where their next 3 star Michelin guide meal was coming from... well you're pretty much screwed as a country.

[placton]

63. Union leaders in the veal pen

http://www.salon.com/news/healthcare_reform/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/01/14/healthcare_deal

[Nikki Stone1]

15. It's not about recovery. It's about turning the world's workers into virtual slaves

willing to work for nothing. They're getting what they want here.

[upi402]

18. Buffet had an idea; Import Certificates, like a broad-based tarrif.

"Import Certificates are an idea for governmental economic intervention to fix a country's trade deficit. The idea was first proposed by Warren Buffett. In the United States, the idea was first introduced legislatively in the Balanced Trade Restoration Act of 2006. The proposed legislation was sponsored by Senators Byron Dorgan (ND) and Russell Feingold (WI), two Democrats in the United States senate. Since then there has been no action on the bill."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_Certificates

[defendandprotect]

23. Exactly . . . !!!

[mod mom]

20. after gutting NAFTA & GATT move on to the Dems who supported it.

[blue_onyx]

35. The Dems would need to pick a new VP

since Biden voted for NAFTA.

[Jeneral2885]

31. There is no more GATT

GATT has been replaced by the WTO

[bvar22]

32. Don't tell me.

Tell Barack "I'm a Free Trader" Obama,
and HIS staff of DLC Corporate Toadies.

The DLC New Team
Working Class Democrats Need NOT Apply

(Photo Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

"Americans CAN WILL compete with 3rd World Slave Labor for their jobs!",
but FAILED Wall Street Bankers will NEVER know a moment of discomfort!

I'm sooo glad "The Democrats" WON!!!

Does ANYONE remember THIS "Democratic Party?

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."---FDR

THAT is the "Democratic Party" I joined 42 years ago.
And THAT "Democratic Party" is dead, DEAD, DEAD!!!

[upi402]

34. Thank you so much

It gets lonely here sometimes.... and cold!

[bvar22]

36. Yes....I know.

I fear it will get worse before it gets better.

The Democratic Party is STILL trading on its old Brand Name (pro-working class).
THAT may come to a screeching halt IF they are successful at passing the current version of HCR,
but "they" don't care.
"They" would rather see a Corporate Republican in a seat of Power than a REAL "Democrat".

How long before the lower 99% realize they have MORE in common with each other than they have in common with the ruling elite of BOTH parties?

[DisgustedInMN]

60. +1

[OhioChick]

39. Kick

:kick:

[senseandsensibility]

40. k and r

but unfortunately, I don't see this happening.

[Odin2005]

41. K&R

[Edweird]

42. K&R

[Quantess]

43. Kick

[OnionPatch]

44. It's always just been a guise to bypass American labor standards.

Those standards are what made a middle class in America and made us the envy of the world.

[avaistheone1]

50. You can say that again.

:kick:

[BrklynLiberal]

45. K&R

[704wipes]

46. Well the Democrat Party has enough votes to repeal them now

nt

[Mithreal]

54. but no interest in doing so

[Tutankhamun]

85. The "democrat" party? Rush? Is that you? (It's "Democratic")

[W T F]

47. China won't like that! and since they own most of our debt,

you know what They'll do if we gut NAFTA

:nuke:

[TatonkaJames]

49. I don't think China can do anything that we aim to do because.....

Their economy depends on ours, they would have to make concessions. They can't afford for us to fail. Of course our to become a politician in Washington before you can take the oath of office you have to be neutered first so forget any of them, with the exception of Grayson and Sanders to do a thing about it.

[Mithreal]

55. China is already looking out for itself. Time for us to do the same.

[Mithreal]

48. Trickle down leads to a nation of pee-ons.

One of my favorite people likes to say that.

[Union Yes]

51. Wanted: A party with the guts to stand up for the American laborer. knr nt

[avaistheone1]

52. The Democrats only make a big show of support for labor at the conventions.

Wonder what they will do at the 2012 convention given they have done a good job of ignoring the free-trade menace so far.

[Mithreal]

53. Obama will never see this. Dem leadership will never push this.

And I will work to prove myself wrong.

Make Obama and Dem leaders scream because they do not feel our pain and the last guy who claimed to, stuck a knife in our backs.

Some have been doing their best to sell the new normal and jobless recovery ideas, haven't they?

[pundaint]

57. Who will pay the President and Congress for voting to do that?

We need energy self sufficiency, single payer healthcare, education, and infrastructure refurbishing too, but we've got bankers to fatten, countries to occupy, and lots and lots of people to jail.

[midnight]

58. We elected a Reagan democratic president.

[FreeJoe]

59. OK, I'll admit it.

I'm a big fan of free trade agreements and wish we had more of them. I've been studying economics for years and the theory that both countries benefit from free trade with each other is pretty firmly established. In fact, my biggest fear is that we'll repeat something like the Republican's Smoot-Hawley Act and turn this recession into a depression.

I've been working for multi-national companies and projects with lots of foreign workers. Aside from how much I think that the US has benefited from trade, it is amazing to hear how much better off our compatriots in China, India, and Brazil are compared with a couple of decades ago. I think that the world is a much better place because of global trade.

I realize that this isn't a popular view in our party or even in the nation as a whole. I think it is one area where we benefit from having representative democracy rather than direct democracy.

[JoeyT]

61. How beneficial it's been depends on who you're asking.

If you're asking people that pull down a good salary working for a multinational corporation, then sure, they're going to say it's great. They're benefiting directly from it. If you're asking the hundreds of thousands of people that were outsourced, downsized, rightsized, let go or any other euphemism for shitcanned so their job could be sent to another country because a ten year old doesn't need health care to sew shoes together for ten cents an hour, then they'll probably disagree.

Yeah, more free trade agreements would be awesome. We haven't *quite* managed to hear a death rattle from our manufacturing/industry yet, but I think that would do it. In fact, I think that would be what finally pushed Americans to revolt against corporatism.
Think having to pay a tax to buy a yacht sucks? Wait'll they see what tar and feathers is like.

Oh, and "The theory that both countries benefit from free trade is pretty firmly established" is outright nonsense.
It's pretty well established that free trade does exactly what everyone thinks it does. Boost one country at the expense of the other. In the wealthier of the two countries it drives down wages, kills jobs, ends worker protections, and creates a booming market of shitty cheap products. The only people helped by that were the people that didn't need help in the first place. It benefits the wealthier country if the only metric it's being measured by is the value of the companies that are doing the outsourcing. Of course it's going to boost that. That's what happens when you go from paying a living wage to paying ten cents an hour to get a product that you can sell for a similar price.

It's an even more insanely bad idea when you consider how much corporate taxes are constantly being cut. In the meantime, you've killed one more taxable job. I'd honestly love to see the figures that show that a country benefits by constantly decreasing the taxes it collects. Constantly reducing tax revenue worked so well for California, it's hard to imagine that it wouldn't work for the rest of the country.

"I think it is one area where we benefit from having representative democracy rather than direct democracy."
Yeah, it sure is a good thing corporations can pay off politicians to prevent that stupid "will of the people" crap.

Edited to add: You know how we've become a country that relies entirely on constant consumer spending so that every single burp in the market causes catastrophic meltdowns? Yeah, you can thank free trade for that too. Ensuring the only thing driving the economy is consumerism while creating less consumers and making the consumers that still exist have less money to spend is pretty fucking stupid too.

[RedRoses323]

62. Kudos

I honestly don't believe I could have said it better! Tried to convince my husband of this, who is laid off from the Wal-Mart Corp Office. He still doesn't get it......:wtf:

[proudohioan]

65. Wal-Mart: the ultimate corporate welfare queen

[proudohioan]

64. WTF??????

:wtf:

[HughBeaumont]

67. Exactly.

Come to Ohio and tell us how great "Free Trade" has been for our state. Unbelievable.

[Romulox]

69. Don't act so shocked. There are a handful of evangelical free traders here on DU

who simply are not amenable to reason or fact.

[Romulox]

68. How do you explain away 30 years of stagnant wages? Most "free traders" can't/won't address wages.

:hi:

[dhpgetsit]

72. Global "Free Trade" cost Haiti its sugar and rice exports.

It has cost me 2 jobs that were outsourced to India.
China is paying a heavy toll in terms of pollution.

The only real beneficiaries are multinational corporate profits.

[HughBeaumont]

74. Sell your snake oil elsewhere, Joe.

"I've been studying economics for years" = you've been indoctrinated into Friedman disaster corporatism, not the Keynesianism that always . .. ALWAYS has to bail it out like clockwork. All "free trade" and the free movement of labor and capital that came with it did resulted in zero net job growth since December 1999. Every theory you learned, that this whole sham isn't a zero sum game, that offshoring jobs would lead to better paying ones here, all amount to a high steaming mound of garbage. Freidmanite disciples have sold us on a lot of things . . . and so far, not ONE of them has panned out.

Free trade FAILED us. My state is proof positive it's a moldy bill of goods.

Go ahead, PLEASE pull the "workers will bounce back, they can retrain" ruse, so I can shoot that down in a pile of flames also. PLEASE.

[bvar22]

76. The "theory" is "pretty firmly established.". LOL

Maybe in your glossy Global Corporate Marketing Brochure.

But the REALITY is on the ground in Detroit, and Pittsburgh, and every small town in America,
and the Mexican border towns, and the sweat shops in Malaysia, and the incredibly polluted recycling towns in China where there are NO health and environmental protections.

Maybe you should take a long sabbatical, tour the Mexican side of the border, and ask those people how wonderful NAFTA has been for them.
It is NOT pretty.

[proudohioan]

77. "Theory"... you hit the nail on the head.

even communism sounds good in "theory".

[Vincardog]

81. I do not want to sacrifice US workers to benefit those in China, India, and Brazil. I don't believe

the prison labor sweating it out in china for 3 cents and hour is doing all that well.
Of course it is really hard to make anyone see the reality of the situation
when they are paid not to see it.

[midnight]

83. As a person who buys children's toys I can say this free trade thing is not

keen on safety, and therefore not as lovely as the economist put in on paper.... As for Smoot-Hawley, that is so last depression. We have the Goldman Sacs for this depression go around....

China's infant formula fatalities last year? Aren't the trade offs from this materialism destroying their air, and water systems too....

India received many of our IT jobs, and while I don't ever regret others doing well, I heard recently that American co. were coming back home because the work force was not as well trained as the great American work force....

Brazilian Rain Forests not doing as well as McDonalds, because the cows need so much land to graze....that the forests are being destroyed for hamburgers among other materials...

I say that free trade is using the loosest rules of ethics, and or standard to do business.

Another model for business that might need more attention is fair trade....

[AdHocSolver]

91. Reality check. What we have are corporate written cartel agreements, NOT "free trade" agreements.

The capitalist argument that "both countries benefit from free trade" is capitalist propaganda and utter nonsense.

The example used to "prove" that claim assumes that each country has cost advantages in producing categories of goods relative to its trading partners. Country "A" can produce product "X" more cheaply than country "B", and country "B" can produce product "Y" more cheaply than country "A". Capitalist theory claims that country "A" should only produce product "X", and country "B" should only produce product "Y", and they should buy the second product from the other. According to the theory, both countries gain an advantage from such trade, so neither country should erect trade barriers to each other.

This theory breaks down in reality, which we can see in the case of the U.S. and China. China can produce BOTH products "X" and "Y" more cheaply than can the U.S. There is No incentive, cost or any other, for China to buy either product "X" or "Y" from the U.S., which is why they don't. Which is why the U.S. has such a huge trade deficit with China. Which is why the real U.S. economy is headed toward a major depression.

The U.S. economy can recover ONLY if the U.S. abandons this so-called "free trade" nonsense, and manages trade so as to eliminate the cost advantage of countries such as China that pays its labor a pittance compared to what labor is paid in "mature" industrialized countries.

The goal has to be that a majority of the everyday goods purchased by Americans, such as clothing, shoes, electronics, tools, toys, books, and more, should be made in America buy Americans. In other words, money spent buy Americans should support jobs for other Americans, not for the Chinese.

The Chinese workers would benefit from such a policy also. Since Chinese capitalists can make more money selling to the U.S., they can still sell the output of their factories without having to raise their own workers' wages enough so that the Chinese worker can afford to buy the stuff he makes. The Chinese capitalists losing the American markets would force them to pay their workers more in order to sell their factory output.

I just provided an example of why the theory of "free trade" doesn't really work, which explains why the U.S. economy is in trouble, and the U.S. has such a huge trade deficit. I have a degree in economics. Most of what is labeled "economics", including a lot of what is posted on DU about the economy, is just corporate, capitalist, anti-labor pretentious nonsense.

Most of the prattle by professional economists is ignorant claptrap. It is the reason why the U.S. economy is in the pits. The loss of jobs and the trade deficit are systemic and are actually more ruinous to the U.S. economy than the recent thievery by the banks. The set of Ponzi schemes referred to as the stock market can be salvaged easily by throwing a bunch of funny money at it, as we have seen with the bank "bailouts". The "real" economy will not recover until manufacturing jobs, that manufacture the everyday goods that Americans buy (which will reduce the trade deficit) are brought back to the U.S.

[dhpgetsit]

66. Global Economics assumes a one size fits all approach benefits everybody.

Every country, in fact every community has its own needs and priorities. It's time to reject the idea of Global "Free Trade"! There is no such thing as free trade. All commerce carries costs and benefits that affect communities in various ways.

[winyanstaz]

70. I have been holloring about American taxpayers being pissed on for years....

I am glad others are finally noticing.
There needs to be accountability as well as change.

[RussWorld]

75. It's quite simple actually

Free and fair trade is you trading me something you produced for something I produced. Trading me something you produced for my promise to have my grandchildren pay you in $'s is treason.
I am making conscious choice every day to buy local. When that isn't feasible I try do without.

[Captain Hilts]

78. Getting tough with China is the key. nt

[Vincardog]

79. Has anybody else been frustrated by this inaction? IN A WORD

YES

[polly7]

82. Yes, shut down NAFTA! Canadians aren't too pleased with it either. nt.

[kenny blankenship]

84. That is the LAST thing that your government, Dem Party included, will do

So you may as well just forget about it. They won't even talk about ideas that sound like that, for fear of "upsetting markets."

The ugly, irreducible reality of our situation is this: the United States, acting over the course of decades on the behalf of its financial elites, has created an economic and political world in which it is no longer the master of its own destiny. Passage of globalizing trade treaties, along with evolution of the global monetary system away from the Bretton Woods system, and the passage of time, has not just erased our national sovereignty, but it has led to a situation in which the U.S. today is no longer as powerful as the U.S. that pushed those treaties. No doubt that outcome was intentional on the part of the class that has benefited the most from them. They talked about being free from protectionist tariffs in the emerging market, but they mostly wanted to be free of capital regulations binding them to the destiny of the United States. There was a world of slave labor to exploit out there and they would say anything to get at it. Thus the United States government, with both political parties giving their blessing, led the way to "globalized free trade". We drafted the concepts, we led the diplomatic push -year in, year out- over the course of half a century for the global free trade regime we now suffer from. We created a world in which our democracy will no longer have the power to un-create or undo or withdraw from. And now, as an economy and as a government we are dependent on external finance. That means we answer to foreign bankers and to international currency markets. Since the whip hand is held outside our borders, we can't change the world economic order to comply with our domestic political wishes anymore. We could no more withdraw from these treaties and unilaterally change the order of trade than Virginia could be allowed to secede from the United States and take the District of Columbia with it.

I hope you took good pictures of America, because it is NEVER coming back. That's not pessimism, it's just realism.

[senseandsensibility]

88. k and r

again.