"Life Begins at the Moment of Fertilization"

[BOSSHOG]

There is a petition going around Mississippi to amend the state Constitution that would define life as beginning at the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functioning equivalent thereof.

So when life begins is a state issue? That belongs in a state constitution? State's Rights? What does that evoke?

And share with me when does life begin in your state?

[Zoeisright]

1. I wish those anti-choice crazies would do something productive

with their time, like raising money to feed hungry children or help the homeless. But no, they have to spend every ounce of their miserable little lives interfering in something that is none of their damn business.

Assholes.

[47of74]

10. Yeah, like helping all the people in Haiti.

[onehandle]

2. Earlier even. The egg and sperm are life.

I say we star issuing Social Security Numbers for each egg and the billions of sperm that are trying to reach it.

[Xithras]

18. It's frightening, but there are actually people who believe that.

I was listening to a religious nut going on about the necessity of women having large families (long story about why I was there), and he floored me when he said, "I mourn whenever my wife starts her period, because it means that I have failed as a husband and that a child has died because of it. Every egg has a right to be fertilized and brought into this world as one of God's children." He then went on about how "Christians" are as guilty as abortionists if they don't at least try to concieve a child every month.

I wanted to ask him how he squared that belief with the fact that girls are starting their periods as young as 10 nowadays, but most of the people in the room agreed with him so I thought better of it.

Some of these people are truly delusional.

[suston96]

44. Not every acorn that drops from an oak tree becomes another oak tree......NT

[hyphenate]

45. This is a guy who likely gets a

hard-on when he reads about every baby the Duggars have.

I can't understand these people who think like that. Honestly, they have to have something mentally wrong if their grasp on reality is that tenuous.

And we mustn't forget the control freaks who are so eager to deny other people their rights. I shudder when I think of all the MEN who believe they should have some say in the lives of women everywhere--yes, if it's a husband, but no one else. And I will never understand women who let men slap them around, or let men dictate their lives for them.

[aquart]

3. Men messing in women's wombs deserve to be unborn.

[HopeHoops]

4. Usually around quitting time.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. NO idea when life begins here in California...

But I'm pretty sure it's not at the moment of conception.

Jeez.

And I do NOT believe this is a matter for the State Constitution, never mind the Federal one.

[gratuitous]

6. Life begins at the moment the man unhooks the woman's bra

The petitioners in Mississippi are missing the moment by at least 30 seconds, possibly more if I've been drinking.

[Schema Thing]

7. bah! life begins when a baby is capable of throwing up on another human.

[BOSSHOG]

Maybe

its the moment your Momma's fiance gets a twinkle in his eye.

[abluelady]

8. I Don't Know About My State

but in my house when the kids left and the dog died!

[GreenPartyVoter]

Me either. I should look into that.

[atreides1]

9. Not sure what it is in Virginia

Even a doctor guesses on actual conception.

[BOSSHOG]

11. Important information about

Mississippi. Number One in:

Obesity
Diabetes
Teen Pregnancy
High School Dropout Rate
And most likely Number One in Wacky Petitions to amend the State Constitution

[NOLALady]

22. Hey.

I really love Mississippi.

I know I don't have to tell you why. :hi: Hi, Neighbor!

[BOSSHOG]

27. Hey Sweety

I love parts of Mississippi. The Wife and I are going to Bay St Louis Monday to stimulate the economy of that awesome lil town. Probably go to Slidell tomorrow to have a beer or two at my favorite watering hole.

I'm not very happy with this damned "southern" weather.

[Warpy]

12. Life begins when you get your first million

Until then, it's existence at best.

Any determination like this is a religious issue and belongs in the churches, not the state. Religious officials can tell their followers what to do and what not to do, but religious dogma has no place in civil law.

It's just too bad so many fervently wrongheaded men are in power.

[MindPilot]

13. Life begins at intent

so any woman who refuses to have sex with me is guilty of murder.

[ShortnFiery]

14. So termination of "a tubal pregnancy" to save a woman's life is MURDER?

If you wish to get right wing rigid without going NUTS, life begins when the fertilized egg implants itself within the uterus. :shrug:

[Deep13]

16. That's the law in El Salvador because of its Catholic theocracy. nt

[Deep13]

15. The fact is that life began some 4.3 billion years ago...

...and has been in continuous operation since. The ovum and sperm are living cells and they are produced by living beings. Tracing through a string of reproductions going back in time as the species changes into an ape then something like a rat then a reptile then an amphibian to a fish to a jellyfish to a single celled animal back half a billion years. And before that there were countless generations of bacteria since the beginning of the world.

So whatever the state law says, the objective fact is that life began only once so it is meaningless to talk about when it "begins."

[BOSSHOG]

20. I was checking

the Mississippi Constitution and it clearly states life began about 6,000 years ago.

[Deep13]

26. I'm sure reality respects that belief.

:eyes:

[dflprincess]

17. My mother always said life began at 40

:shrug:

[madinmaryland]

19. I think it begins after the age of 50 or when the kids move out of the house.

:shrug:

[KansDem]

21. Life begins at 5pm on Friday night...

At least lately it seems! ;)

But really, it's an interesting question. I'll see if Kansas has an answer...

[slackmaster]

23. My state makes a distinction between a "human being" and a "fetus"

It's possible to be charged with murder for the unlawful killing of either form of life.

(Because the law provides a penalty for the unlawful killing of a fetus, that implies that a fetus is alive.)

[FLyellowdog]

24. Life begins with the letter "L"...duh. nt

[cbdo2007]

25. This is one of them trick questions....

obviously, it does begin at Fertilization - when the egg and sperm cell unite.

But that doesn't mean it can live and sustain itself independently of the mother. My toe is alive also but I'm the one who gets to decide what happens when I have an ingrown toenail.

[LeftHander]

28. At 40.....

lol

[guitar man]

29. Life begins

When I strap on my guitar on Friday and Saturday nights. Everything else is just hanging around and waiting.

:silly:

[BOSSHOG]

31. Do some people

think you're a no good
lay in your bed all day
but when the nighttime comes
your ready to rock and roll
your troubles away ...

I was a big Bad Company fan in my formative years.

[guitar man]

43. Yeah

Now he's in a Rock and Roll outfit and everything's all right :thumbsup:

[joeybee12]

30. Still waiting for my life to begin in this state! n/t

[BOSSHOG]

33. Ah Joey get thee to a Sports Bar

You and your fellow Pats fans can cry in your Beer and talk about old times.

[joeybee12]

38. I think you mean "Future Glory" and not "Old Times"

Lots of typos in your posts today Boss...you should be worried.

[BOSSHOG]

39. Future Glory?? Is billichick quitting?

Who Dat be cheering for the Saints this Saturday??

[BurtWorm]

32. Life begins at 50.

:patirot:

[woodsprite]

34. Happy Hour! n/t

[winyanstaz]

35. So I am readly to look at the proof .

At what moment does the SOUL enter that baby body? Until then, it is only a vehicle and not occupied.

[BOSSHOG]

37. Mississipians don't need no stinking proof ...

Ya gotta believe. They don't need no stinking education either.

[winyanstaz]

41. hhahaa :P I think you've nailed it :)

[dixiegrrrrl]

36. When life begins depends ON my state at any given time...

Lately, it has been pretty good.

[HillbillyBob]

40. Maybe LIfe should be said to begin when Sentience exhibits

Well then again I ve known a lot of people who cannot spell the word let alone understand the meaning..so they are brain dead....:crazy:

[LeftishBrit]

42. From a medical point of view...

conception includes both fertilization *and implantation*. If you count fertilization as sufficient, you would have to conclude that about three-quarters of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

This is quite aside from the questions of (a) whether life begins at conception; (b) whether the question is one for a legislative body anyway!

[gkhouston]

46. in Mississippi, shouldn't life begin when you get a job out of state? n/t

[lunatica]

47. That excuses all the sperm spent on jerking off

Since they aren't considered life even though they wiggle around

[zipplewrath]

48. Been try to prove this is historical

I'm having trouble documenting it, but I strongly suspect this whole "life begins at conception" crap started as a political conclusion. You'll have a hard time finding much evidence that historically, western cultures considered a fetus as a "baby" prior to Roe v. Wade. There have always been objections to abortion, but the vast majority of it was either based upon danger to the mother, or a concern that one was interfering with the growth of ones social group (family, religion, tribe, whatever). With Roe v. Wade, and really at the state level as states started making abortions illegal, this concept of "life at conception" first starts to develop. And I suspect it was a political inspiration more than anything. Considering that when these state laws started to be passed, women were considered little more than property, it almost assuredly was an effort on the part of men to maintain control over the birth of children. But it was probably easier to get laws passed if they were couched in psuedo religious terms and philosophies of the "preservation of life".

I mean really, this concept can't particularly date back to biblican times since they barely understood fertilization or conception much at all. My understanding is that they didn't really understand human gestation times at all and pregnancies weren't even confirmed in most women until around the 3rd month or so.

Any scientific consideration of the question falls on hard times. We are finding out, through ultrasound and other methods, that women get pregnant far more often than we knew, but that they just don't progress. Fertilized eggs often just stop developing for unknown reasons. Mental development continues well after birth and it isn't even particularly clear what the mental organization of a newborns brain is. And development in the womb is fraught with all manner of malfunctions that can prevent a fetus from developing into anything particular recognizable as a fully functioning human.

And legally, I really wonder if the states have fully considered making fetus' fully protected "citizens" with property rights and rights of inherentence. It makes the mother heavily liable to the fetus. The liability lawyers would drool at this opportunity. The insurance companies should consider this concept as well, before folks start buying "life insurance" for their fetus. Just take almost any law, and consider how it applies to a fetus and one can begin to understand the complexity of pushing such an agenda. And really, it steps outside the entire history of law as we know it. Fetus' have never been treated as much more that "property" in judicial history. Truth is, we have slowly expanded our definition of "citizenship" over the centuries, but have never taken such a huge leap as this.