Please tell me why our health insurance is now considered a Cadillac plan.

[Stinky The Clown]

We are two people. We each have chronic illnesses that require constant check-ins and a cornucopia of regular meds to control. We are just a few years above and below sixty.

We pay out of pocket for the insurance. It is hardly fancy. It is an HMO. We have drug benefits, but no dental and no vision.

We can elect to go out of the HMO and pay 20% plus a deductible.

Again, we pay street rates. We are not part of a group. We are both self employed, so if we want insurance, we have to pay for it. If we drop this plan, we will likely never get insured again because of those chronic illnesses.

Our premiums have more than tripled in the last ten years.

I understand that a policy for more than an individual that costs more than $24,000 is a Cadillac plan and will be taxed.

We pay $29,000 a year.

We are not rich.

That premium is more than our cost for housing and more than our cost for food.

I earn more than a teacher but less than an engineer. Sparkly earns less.

We are very much willing to pay more in taxes to get health care for everyone. We are not even close to selfish people.

But please tell me why our crappy fucking insurance is worthy of being taxed.

Twenty Nine Fucking Thousand Dollars Out Of Our Pockets.

And that will now be taxed.

Yes, I am angry about this. I am angry at every Democrat who is pushing this, and that includes, but is by no means limited to, the President.

[msongs]

1. why is health care being taxed AT ALL by wealthy politicians who get HC FREE? nt

[Zhade]

35. GREAT QUESTION!

Sorry to shout, but it needed to be pointed out.

[Cicada]

2. tax applies only to what employer provides you free

if employer gives you, at no tax cost to you, a policy costing the employer $29,000 then employer pays tax on excess of $29,000 over X dollars $24,000 in Senate bill)of cost. If employer gave you a $29,000 car should you get it 100% tax free? Why is health insurance different?

[Edweird]

7. Insurance isn't a car.

[Bluebear]

11. A car and health insurance are not even close to being the same thing

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Why do you have orange eyes?

[Zhade]

16. Um, the employer gives that in lieu of higher pay. Surely you know this.

It's part of the employee's compensation. No corporation "gives" us health insurance out of the goodness of its heart.

Take your bullshit shilling elsewhere. We're not stupid.

[dkf]

29. He is self employed

The employer is him

[flyarm]

50. "Why is health insurance different?"

because it is Health!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not a drive down the street!!!!

[amborin]

54. not free! people WORK for wages & benefits, & fought bloody battles to get them!

[endless october]

3. taxing health insurance is a dumb way to pay for it.

end the wars and spend that money on single payer.

shit, end the fucking drug wars and spend it on single payer.

there are so many better ways to do it. all they have to do is pick one that isn't worse.

[jillan]

4. I believe mine will be as well. My husband is a blue collar worker who just happens

to have a great insurance plan.

I'm quietly fuming.

[Schema Thing]

5. 29K?

And why do you care if the insurance company has to pay a tax on your plan? It won't be passed on to you any more than it will be passed on to me.

[Zhade]

18. Look up the definition of "excise tax". You couldn't be more wrong.

NT!

[GinaMaria]

56. because the company will want to avoid the tax

they can do that simply by weakening your benefits and putting you on a plan that covers less and costs you more. That's why people care about this tax.

[stray cat]

6. Because the cost for both of you is over 22000 a year?

and that is their definition

[berni_mccoy]

8. The premium has to be more than 23k. And you won't be taxed, the Insurance company would be.

[Zhade]

19. Excise tax. Look it up.

I swear, you Big Pharma boosters can't even understand basic definitions sometimes.

[berni_mccoy]

20. I know exactly what the law says. And it says specifically that it charges the Insurance Company.

[Zhade]

36. Aaaaaaaaand it's an excise tax. Therefore, it WILL be passed on in some form.

You can't ignore the definition.

[flyarm]

51. wrong wrong wrong wrong..it will be passed onto the consumer! wake the fuck up! eom

[HuckleB]

9. That seems overpriced, big time.

We have better coverage for a family of three at just more than 1/2 that.

:shrug:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

10. It's being called Cadillac to distract from the fact that this was McCain's health insurance reform.

[Bluebear]

17. --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7468534

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

44. gmta

:hi:

[flyarm]

52. +10,000!!!!!!!!! n/t

[GinaMaria]

57. It's a comprehensive coverage plan and needed by many people

with serious or chronic illness. This type of plan will pay for needed tests, procedures, specialists etc. People who have these plans are not wealthy. I've stopped using their term 'Cadillac plan'. It is insulting.

[housewolf]

13. I'm so sorry, Stinky

It should have been based on what the coverage consists of, not what the insurance co. charges you for insurance. I recently worked for a major health insurer. There are group plans where the coverage actually covers 100% of all medical costs, no deductibles, so co-pays, 100% dental, 100% vision, 100% chiropractic and other so-called alternative providers, and 100% health club (for work-out programs). To me, THAT's a Cadillac Plan - a plan that most of American could never afford to pay for.

I'm sorry your insurance is so expensive. You're paying more for health insurance for you and Sparkly than many individuals and families make in a whole year. I don't know how you can do it. What an f-ed up situation we're in!

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

59. This would have been a better way to do it

The way they are planning to do it penalizes older individuals and those who live in high cost areas of the country.

[Zhade]

14. Because branding it as such makes it easier to fool people into supporting a tax on it.

It's utterly unconscionable, of course.

[midnight]

15. I think it may be taxed because some economist guy who was paid close

to a million dollars by our president, told him this is how to oil this product...... Tax and mandate the consumer....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7468399

[FrenchieCat]

21. the Cadillac Plan doesn't include self employed folks, last I checked.

Plus, you are able to join a pool of others via the exchange and locate cheaper insurance,
with the same benefits, before any excise tax can be charged to your insurance company,
as your medical coverage is not part of some contractual package.

[galileoreloaded]

22. Stinky, you HAVE $29000 a year for insurance. You are rich.

Love you to pieces, but man, your loaded.

[Stinky The Clown]

33. You're wrong. What I am is insurance poor.

And not sufficiently healthy to ever get any other insurance if I drop this plan.

That's not rich. That's being fucked.

[galileoreloaded]

41. Well, ok. I am kid poor, I get it. I stand corrected...............n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

23. Ummmm......

I use fully taxable dollars to pay my health insurance premium. The policy carries a $10,000 annual deductible and a co-pay beyond that - and doctor visits are not covered. I have not seen a doctor for any reason in nearly 15 years. Because I am currently unemployed no part of the premium payment is tax deductible - and because I do have taxable income the dollars I use to pay that premium are fully taxable.

The pending insurance reform proposal sucks. I may very well withhold my vote in the next election from some Dem incumbents seeking re-election because of this clusterfuck proposed legislation. I clearly have no problem with it going down in defeat.

Meaningful healthcare reform is my line in the sand. We have a sitting Dem President and majorities in both the House and Senate. There are only a few reasons why the Dems in office cannot deliver such reform:
(1) they lack the principled commitment to do so;
(2) they lack the political skill and leadership to do so; and/or
(3) they lack the guts to do so.

And because Congress largely refused to even consider evidence regarding whether or not a single payer system was viable we cannot even pretend this proposal is an informed effort to address the issue. Nevermind the fact that the legislation addresses INSURANCE issues - rather than a much broader range of healthcare issues.

[Stinky The Clown]

31. I, too, am paying this with taxable dollars.

[Coyote_Bandit]

66. If you are sucessfuly self-employed you may well be able to deduct

some of the expenses associated with the payment of your health insurance premiums - which means that the premium dollars you pay are not fully taxable. That is not an option for unemployed folks who are not permitted to deduct any health insurance premiums they pay. It would seem that equity would require that unemployed folks with taxable income ought to have the ability to take the same deduction. But no.....not in this fucked up country.


From: http://taxes.about.com/od/deductionscredits/qt/healthin...

"If you have self-employment income, then you can take a deduction for health insurance expenses.

Before claiming this tax deduction, you must calculate your allowable health insurance deduction. Take your self-employment income, and subtract the 50% deduction for self-employment taxes, and subtract any retirement contributions you make to SEP-IRA, SIMPLE-IRA, or Keogh plan. The remainder is your allowable deduction for health insurance expenses.


If your self-employment income is from a Schedule C business, and you report a net loss on Form 1040 Line 12, then you are not eligible to deduct your health insurance costs.


You can deduct the full cost of health insurance you purchase for yourself, your spouse, and/or your dependents. However, you cannot deduct any insurance costs for any months you were eligible to participate in a group health insurance plan through your or your spouse's employer. For example, if you paid for 12 months of health insurance coverage for yourself and your family, but you became eligible to participate in your spouse's group health insurance in December, then you can deduct only 11 months worth of insurance premiums."

[flyarm]

55. and you will now be being "DOUBLE TAXED" FOR YOUR HEALTH CARE COVERAGE!! EOM

[madmax]

24. 24k a year!!

Damn Stinky - that sucks major big! How the fuck are people suppose to live? That's an outrageous amount of money. I hate these fuckers.

Received another questionnaire from Aetna asking if we had other insurance or Medicare. This is about the 5th time. I keep sending nasty notes with them like, 'So, tell me, how large was your CEO's bonus this year?' 'Medicare for ALL'. 'Health care for profit is immoral.' :mad:

[applegrove]

25. If you don't spend more than $23,000 a year on healthcoverage for your family

you will not be taxed.

[berni_mccoy]

26. Small correction: the *premium* has to be more than 23k and it is the insurance company

that is taxed, not the individual.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. My out of pocket annual premium is 29K

If the insurer is taxed, why will that not be passed on to me?

My rates have tripled in the last ten years. How much more should I have to bear?

[Zhade]

37. EXCISE. TAX.

NT!

[ChicagoSuz219]

27. I could be wrong, but...

...I think if you pay for your own insurance, this won't apply to you. Check the details.

If anything, you may become eligible to join a group of sorts and get cheaper insurance and/or your own rates may come down. There are also provisions for free preventative care, tests, etc.

Check into it... you may be pleasantly surprised!

[debbierlus]

28. You are the vehicle to maintain the health industry profit - they would rather break you financially

Then, halt the greed and profiteering that brought about the current health care crisis.

[mopinko]

30. so stinky. you have been straightened out. what say you?

hmmmm?

[Stinky The Clown]

34. erm ..... ya.

I'll only be straight when I'm laying face up in a velvet box. Meantime, I'm perennially bent over, taking it.

[mopinko]

49. but do you see that you are not going to be taxed for this?

that it is the insurance company, anyway, but that this is not an employer provided plan, and not a target of the tax?
you're a smart guy stinky. how could you still think you were in line to pay this tax?
and although you will not be affected right away, the law will likely save you money when fully implemented?
c'mon.

[Zhade]

63. You boosters can keep spinning -- won't change the fact that it's an excise tax.

NT!

[WT Fuheck]

38. the same reason they invented "welfare queens"

so the idiot lower classes will resent you for it.

[zaj]

39. Sounds like you are pointlessly angry... You don't have "...

... "employer-provided health care benefits" do you? You have an individual plan. Correct?

[Sheepshank]

40. exemptions

On a very recent thread, there were exemptions for Police, Fire fighters and those over 55. Did anyone else catch that?

[kiranon]

42. Cadillac plan taxes are another reason why the Dems may lose Massachusetts.

What a terrible legacy for Senator Kennedy if a Republican wins in Mass. But, pushing ideas like a tax on Cadillac plans that are paid for by people who are ill and are forced to pay a fortune for their insurance makes no sense.

[Mithreal]

43. Right on, Stinky

Dems that push this filth are the lowest form of life.

Bernie Sanders was talking up to the last days that there were no cost controls.

Team Obama during the campaign had some interesting things to say about taxing health care benefits. Of course now it is all the rage. Can't wait for the big WH marketing push on the American public to commence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5YXs788uM

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. (a) It sounds as if this is not "employer-sponsored coverage"

which is what the excise tax is aimed at. As you point out, you have to pay for your coverage out of already-taxed income; the idea of the exicse tax is to set a point at which employer-sponsored coverage starts to attract tax too.

(b) Is it possible that your premiums are set so horrendously high because of your chronic illnesses? If so, then the bill would stop them charging you extra because of that, and your premiums may fall, as a result of you, in the future, being in a group that will include many people without chronic illnesses. And other plans won't be able to refuse you coverage because of a pre-existing condition, so you will be able to move to another plan if your current HMO continues to charge you huge amounts.

Good luck with your health, anyway.

[Stinky The Clown]

47. We're in limbo ......

..... in that we're a very small business. As an LLC, our income from the business is our personal income. We have three partners and one part time employee. One partner uses her husband's insurance. Our employee uses her husband's insurance. The one remaining partner and I form the (hahahahah) group. We were told that a group that small, for their purposes, is no different from a private purchaser. In May, the other partner moves from our "group" to Medicare.

If we were a corp (or even an S-Corp), we could deduct the premiums. As an LLC, they are paid with out of pocket, taxable dollars.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. I would hope you wouldn't be hit by the new excise tax, then

By any decent definition, you shouldn't be (I'd argue you should be able to deduct the premiums too, in a 'sane' insurance/tax set-up). But sometimes people who are 'in between' common categories get hit twice. I hope there's someone in Congress who has checked what happens for people like you (not an incredibly unusual situation, I'd have thought, but not a typical one either).

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

60. Can't you take a deduction on your 1040 A for the premiums?

Premiums (and other medical expenses) in excess of 7.5% of your AGI are deductible.

[Zhade]

64. Er, there are no assurances in the bill that people with PECs won't be heavily charged.

In fact, insurance corps will keep charging ridiculous rates to such people, effectively blocking them from using their coverage!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

46. The larger question is why is ANY American paying 29K a year for insurance?

That is what has me up in arms. Taxes are the least of it (even though it just makes a travesty an even greater travesty)

[Uncle Joe]

62. That's a good question Phoebe, I believe it's because

for profit "health" insurance corporations, their bought and paid for government enablers and the commercial selling corporate media must get their fair share of blood money profit.

[AzDar]

53. K & R

[newtothegame]

58. We insisted on health reform. n/t

[Faryn Balyncd]

61. Great post....Some people don't won't to believe the reality. Other peddle illusions.

k and r

[Lesleymo]

65. Stinky I'm with ya

From what I've read, the reasoning goes like this: they tax the higher-priced plans, so people drop down to less expensive plans, so they can say yippee, we are so smart we lowered the cost of health care.

Of course it makes no sense. Cuz here is what will happen: they will tax the higher-priced plans, and many people (like you) have no way to drop down to a different plan, and (you betcha) the cost of that tax will be passed right along, which will mean you will have to pay even MORE.

Plus the schmucks who CAN choose a less expensive plan will end up paying more out of pocket, so basically if you are self-employed but making a half-way decent income, you are schmucked no matter what.

The whole thing makes me crazy!!

[johnaries]

67. Stinky, this bill should help you greatly!

Not only does the tax not apply to you since it's not employer-provided, but once the exchange is up you will be able to find much cheaper insurance. You can't be refused for a pre-existing condition, and there are restrictions on premium increases because of health or age.