Breaking on GEM$NBC - the Govt of Haiti says 40,000

[malaise]

people have been buried so far.
-------------
My worst fears were correct - way over 100,000 died in this catastrophe.

[tekisui]

1. My god.

They had buried only 7,000 yesterday.

You, unfortunately, were right. 40,000 buried, while the heavy rubble still lay unmoved.:cry:

[Captain Hilts]

2. Oh, gee...

[itsrobert]

3. over 100,000 more missing or trapped

:(

[malaise]

11. That's the frightening part

and it's not just Port-au-Prince. The destruction in Jacmel is as bad as Port-au-Prince. The good news is that Jacmel is still relatively green so people can find food.

http://www.google.com.jm/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.infohub.com/Maps/haiti_map_160.html&h=823&w=1200&sz=144&tbnid=cJ_tA1VVX6uWYM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphysical%2Bmap%2Bof%2Bhaiti&hl=en&usg=__mBoX64VENMaEdrNVvCdhMTrtMlc=&ei=qNhQS-SdKdaOtgfQmYigCg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&ved=0CAoQ9QEwAA

change link

[aquart]

4. Buried. That's only the ones who have been buried. My god.

We have counties with smaller populations. FORTY THOUSAND BURIED.

My heart to the ones who took on this awful task.

[bigwillq]

5. Just terrible.

:(

[Parker CA]

6. It's being done in such a haphazard manner that it's tough to imagine how they're keeping any count.

[malaise]

8. The real trouble will come from overseas

Because they have buried people from the hotel as well and I have no idea if anyone is identifying these people. The US and Canada will be bawling by next week when relatives just become missing persons and they have been buried in mass graves.

The real problem is that the officials have no option here. You cannot leave thousands of dead people in the streets and there are no working morgues.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. It will come from relatives

not governments.

This is SOP for a massive effort like this.

[malaise]

14. Yep

like that father who thought he daughter was rescued from the Montana.


Hotel Montano - a click to the hotel link frightens you - it's gone.

More hotel Montana pics
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotos-g147307-d150996-Hotel_Montana-Port_au_Prince_Haiti.html#1255138

This hotel used an international building code.

add

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Are those pre or post earthquake pictures? (Sorry, I am a bit dense today.)

[malaise]

21. Here's the Montana today

Note that most visitors stay at this hotel including a lot of our staff.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. I'm trying to find reference points between this pic and the others so I can

really understand the scope of what happened. I can still see stories standing in the lower part of the picture, but the top part is just horrifying.
(I wonder how much input the Japanese had in the International building code? If I understand correctly, they are on the cutting edge of earthquake safety technology.)

[malaise]

29. Check the before and after pics here

http://geography.blog.gustavus.edu/2010/01/14/destruction-following-haitis-earthquake-before-and-after-images-of-the-national-cathedral/

Here's a story link
http://www.traveldailynews.com/pages/show_page/35113-Haiti%27s-Hotel-Montana,-Hotel-Christopher-collapse-in-Haiti
<snip>

Some 200 guests have been reported missing at Hotel Montana, a 4-star tourist hotel that is one of the many buildings in and around Haiti's capital of Port-au-Prince that were destroyed in Tuesday's massive earthquake. Alain Joyandet, an official with France's State Department, tells Agence France-Presse that 300 people were believed to be inside the 145-key Montana when it collapsed, while only about 100 have been accounted for. The 98-year-old hotel, which was popular with French tourists, is said to be completely destroyed.

Also collapsing was Port-au-Prince's 3-star Hotel Christopher, which served as headquarters of the United Nations Stabilization Mission to Haiti. Approximately 200 UN staff were inside the 74-key hotel when it collapsed, and at least 150 remain unaccounted for as of Wednesday morning, according to The Wall Street Journal. Another hotel housing UN workers, Port-au-Prince's upscale Karibe Hotel, is also reportedly destroyed, according to the New Zealand Herald.

The earthquake registered 7.0 on the Richter Scale. Thousands are feared dead across the impoverished island nation.
--------------
Hillary Clinton is going to Haiti tomorrow with Dr Shah - this is a serious administration

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. OMG! It's just mind-boggling, the extent of the devastation.

:cry:

[malaise]

33. And we're talking about the best built structures

in Haiti - four star and three star hotels

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. I've been doing some research since NadinB brought up liquefaction and

it would appear there really isn't much to be done for building codes in those cases, In fact, several of the articles stated that any evaluated ares that came up high in terms of liquefaction likelihood should not be built on. Period.

But how is that possible in parts of the world that are mainly made up of sand or dirt rather than solid bedrock? Where are those people to go? :(

[jberryhill]

38. Liquefaction risk can be mitigated...

Essentially by driving a lot of piles into the soil. That's common in CA highway construction.

http://www.ce.washington.edu/~liquefaction/html/how/resistantstructures.html

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. I just read a couple of articles that debated whether or not the piles truly work. Maybe it had to

do with the magnitude of the earthquake in question?

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. It's magnitude, direction of quake

and depth.

Of course there is also the frequence of the P-Wave. (That is how close the crests of the waves are... and the closer the most likely they will cause resonance)

Caltrans does not expect the bridges near where i live to survive an 8 pointer... personally I don't expect them to survive a 7.5, but that is just me, if the conditions are right.

[jberryhill]

46. "mitigate"

–verb (used with object)
1. to lessen in force or intensity, as wrath, grief, harshness, or pain; moderate.
2. to make less severe: to mitigate a punishment.
3. to make (a person, one's state of mind, disposition, etc.) milder or more gentle; mollify; appease.
–verb (used without object)
4. to become milder; lessen in severity.

[malaise]

42. Until the 'big one' comes along

Nothing saves you when the big one comes - ask those people in the well built hotels and offices in Haiti. This one took out all nationalities, all races and all classes.

[malaise]

40. Well maybe there was a reason why these islands had

small populations until the slave masters had other ideas. Generally the indigenous people knew their environment. Most of the colonized cities were built up around trading ports - usually in the worst possible environmental and geological situation.

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. That makes sense. People who have absolutely no idea how things are coming in and

saying they know what's best. x(

[Parker CA]

10. I was thinking the same things earlier. What do you do if your relative is missing and they're

just never found? Hard to imagine dealing with that.

[formercia]

15. It's HOT and bodies decompose quickly.

There's a very real risk of an epidemic, considering the conditions and lack of safe drinking water.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Absolutely true.

[malaise]

19. It's a no win situation

They have to bury the bodies but there will be a massive outcry in a few days from overseas relatives. I suggest the government enclose the burial areas and allow people to remember their dead.

[Locut0s]

48. Becuase foreigners are involves I wonder if....

this will spur an effort to exhume these graves latter and try to identify if not at least get an accurate count of the number of dead. If it was only Haitians who were buried I doubt such an effort would be launched.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. The ICRC had the intention of doing this

it is after all part of their shtick... but the risk of disease makes this, sadly, a low priority.

[Ocracoker16]

7. I don't know what to say

[madokie]

12. So sad

and the sadest part was robertson and pedoboy's totally uncalled for remarks. I say we need to clean up our act in the way the usa treats other countries citizens that causes their pain of every day life. Then something like this happens and people like the two afore mentioned truds have to ruin it further by running off their mouths. If there was a god she would turn both of them too stone.

I'm so sorry, and I'm sure you had friends there, so sad, a :hug: is the best I can do for you and yours.

At least our President is conducting himself in a most respectful and honest way. Making sure the help is there. I hope out of all this suffering the Haitian people will finally be freed from the bounds that have kept them down for way to many years now.

Please let it be that they have suffered enough
:cry:

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. How many would still be alive if the country had had the money to build

stronger, safer infrastructure? :cry: We should have found a way to help them do that. Rallied the world then instead of having to do it now.

[malaise]

16. Check the Hotel Montana pics at #14

That was safer stronger infrastructure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. shallow quake, right under it

LA... I am betting you'd see the same damage... and for those that think otherwise... the DEEP quake at northridge that wasn't even under them did how much damage?

Especially on sandy terrain. (Liquification and all that)

Shallow quakes do a LOT MORE damage.

If you are going to go through one, pray you are on basalt, and it is deep (and building codes don't hurt either)

[malaise]

22. The similar destruction in Jacmel

is further proof of that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Well the problem is that this is to a point Geology 101

but like most things, most people don't know off that.

I live in quake country... so I know that... (GRRR and I do live on sandy terrain... there are many reasons I want to sell this place once my parents are not here... that is ONE of them)

Reality is... where my condo is, it should have NEVER ever been zoned for human habitation... and this is the good ol' US of A.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. I don't live in quake country, so I appreciate your explanation. It's been a long time

since science classes but liquefaction does ring a bell now that you have brought it up. (Although I think it was in terms of mudslides rather than earthquakes.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. It happens in both

in Mexico City the damaged areas did so due to it.

And here is one of those why you should listen to science folks. A geologist from the UNAM wrote a white paper in the 1940s saying that those areas should not be allowed to build beyond four level structures. Well, like any white paper that is ahem unpopular, it gathered dust for two generations. After the quake... those recommendations were implemented.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. It does seem that people don't want to hear things like that, so they build in

unsafe areas like mudslide zones, earthquake areas, or places prone to wildfires. Is it just a case of "It'll never happen to me" or is something else at play there?

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Lack of long term view

that is the best I can tell.

[Locut0s]

49. I believe this quake's epicentre was at 6-7 miles down!!! That's REALLY shallow!!!.....

Combine that with the fact that it was a mag 7 and there was little change of even reinforced structures of surviving very well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. six miles down, and on the city

you are correct.

Under the right circumstances quakes are that much more damaging than otherwise they would be.

After the Mexico City Quake I wanted to understand WHY? So read on my own some books on this... and though geology has advanced since... things like P-Waves and resonance (as well as substrate and time-distance) are greater predictors of damage than just the number in the scale.

Geology is damn fascinating and I developed a hell of a respect for mother nature.

[reggie the dog]

24. so sad

I was hoping it was 40 000 dead revised down from 100 000. Damn. what can be done in the long term to help this island nation out?

[malaise]

43. More here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7474762

[buzzard]

30. I really think some agency/group should take charge of documenting the dead even if it means

digging up those already buried, it will only get harder to identify as the days go on and the sooner this happens the better, there must be access to digital cameras and in the coming months it may provide closure to those with disappeared loved ones. I hope this doesn't sound crass but it has been on my mind since I heard of mass graves/burials.

[malaise]

31. Easy for us to think

People in Haiti are dealing with the stench of their relatives and friends.

Good to see people receiving food and drink today.

[buzzard]

37. I'm glad some aid is finally getting through as well it is heartbreaking to think of the horror the

people are going through.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. The ICRC was planning to do that

but under the circumstances it is a debate. Do I take photos, what have you? Or do I did them and pour lye on them due to the epidemic disease risk that IMHO is all but a reality.

And IMHO they are doing exactly what needs to be done. Closure will be done, in oh three months, when there is a national religious service at whatever remains of the Cathedral or whatever replaces it. This is way catharsis is usually handled.

[shireen]

36. Malaise, did you feel the quake?

According to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_the_2010_Haiti_earthquakeHaiti">Haiti earthquake wikipedia, it was felt in Jamaica as a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercalli_intensity_scale">MM2, which is weak.
Also, is Jamaica anywhere near these horrible fault lines?

[malaise]

41. Yep - it was a 4 in Kingston, St Andrew

and St Thomas and 5 in Portland. Really minor here - just a lil shake and no injuries.
We had a lengthy thread on that.

[malaise]

50. And yes

That fault line runs right through JA up to the Caymans. We may be safe for a few more decades. Fingers and toes crossed :D