The tragedy in Haiti is NOT a TV show

[Peacetrain]

where people can drop out of helicopters aka Schwarzenegger or Rambo and make this right.

This is Hell on Earth.. with bodies everywhere in the incredible heat.. they are burning bodies to try and stop disease.

The health care centers have collapsed.. the stores have collapsed... and they are still trying to pull bodies out of buildings.

The millions of people.. let me repeat that millions of people now homeless.

They cannot drop water bottles from the sky.

They are operating on men women and children without anesthetic.

The rescue crews from around the world are trying to get in to


A. rescue people.

B. get in medical supplies.

C. they are trying to move troops in to give security

d. food and water getting delivered.

[niyad]

1. k and r--thank you. it wasn't until KO said something about the heat that I realized what the

temps must be there--not thinking, because there is still ice here from the snows before christmas.

that made me realize the situation is a thousand times worse than even I thought.

[Peacetrain]

3. Missions teams are reporting in on the heat..

It is much worse and will be that much more so in the next 48 hours.. just getting the bodies buried, before disease spreads

[BeFree]

2. heh

First on the scene were the TV reporters.

How'd they do that? Cameras, generators, trucks, crews, etc.

And no water? Few soldiers? Something stinks.

[blondeatlast]

5. The media CAME WITH THEIR OWN SUPPLIES AND TRANSPORTATION.

The stupid burns.

Geez; I thought DUers were smarter than the average bears. I thought wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I'll tell you why since I did ask a CNN crew a few decades ago, ok one and a half

They have contracted and on standby private jets that they have loaded on a ready five, that is ready to go. So people like oh CNN get the call, and it takes a couple hours to pack and get things like oh passports.

Those planes are usually loaded with a self contained mission for a disaster, which means these guys brought their own water, their comms, they own generators, their own diesel and their own security teams. Their security teams (for top reporters) are among the best in the world, though scum, as in mercs, they have been for decades, former SAS, SEAL, French Commando... as one of them put it, too old to do it, but still likes the excitement. And it pays well and most of the time, they do not have to do much. Oh and Sanjay has a team with him.

And no, they do not work for Blackwater either before you say that.

Essentially CNN, or others, traveled the same way many of the rescue teams are traveling, self contained, and self sufficient.

Hell at times they also bring supplies in, and since they come in during the first hours of any disaster, well they bring that in. And many a times they also bring in rescuers, usually scouts, in their first flights.

You asked, you get a comprehensive answer.

Hell at one point I could have gone to work for any of these, as part of the logistics mission, but the life simply does not attract me.

Lets just say I had a few hours to talk to one of their former reporters during a rescue hostage situation after the first gulf war...

[BeFree]

23. Heh

They can do it, and our Army can't? Sure, they sent in a few.

But it's going on 80 hours. This is getting ridiculous. People are starving. They don't need excuses. But that's all we got?

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. You try to physically move the 1st MEU

and all her supplies faster than they already are... I tripple dare you.

Here is the scale. They are moving forty people, not 6,000 people.

The army did move that many people on the first day. What do you think the first C-130 that landed brought in?

Scouts, airport handling personnel, and their own food, and water.

I mean read the release, their first team was a COMMAND, CONTROL AND LOGISTICS team.

[BeFree]

33. Troops?

Troops for what? Are you saying that if we give the people water they are going to riot? You are convicting them before even given a chance?

They don't need troops, now, they need water and food. Give them water and food and they won't riot. But they will if we make them to starve any longer.

Right now, only the strongest are surviving. The troops aren't gonna help that, only food and water.

This smells too much like Katrina. And we know that was FUBAR. This is getting there all to fast.

[haele]

38. Have you ever had to deal with large groups of desperate people?

Or have you even been at a major event with a couple hundred people who are tired, excited, with some on mind-altering substances without some sort of security? It can get very ugly very quickly.

Any large group of people has a greater potential to become a violent, unthinking, reactive mob without some form of authority around to coordinate and enforce calm, orderly activity. That authority can be within the group, or without, but there needs to be some sort of authority in place.

First rule of rescue work - don't become another statistic in the disaster you are trying to help. Second rule - don't become a hostage.

What happened to Somalia in the late '80's is the example you need to look to here. The majority of the people of Haiti, like the people of Somalia, are hard working, smart, law abiding people. However, Haiti has been the victim of past (and present) corruption; the gangs of unemployed, borderline young people who are used to brutality are still there, and there is a thriving Black Market that is looting what can be available or stored within the city; not foraging - individuals forage for survival, gangs loot for profiteering.

Troops are there to keep the peace enough to allow the help to get to where it is needed, to ensure that the supplies are dispensed to people who need it rather than go to profiteers collecting to resell, to protect aid workers from disraught or unstable locals.

It's not a matter of "convicting" before they get a chance. It's the result of decades of watching planes come onto tarmacs with relief supplies, only to have armed groups carry off half the pallets or if the supplies get onto trucks and start heading to refugee camps, the trucks are rushed and stripped of everything by the strong in the camp before anyone has a chance to pass out food and water to those who actually need it to survive.

The risk of having your convoys robbed by the desperate or the criminal just a few blocks outside the airport are even greater when there is no clear road going to where you need to be to assist the greatest amount of people.

You need to set up secure stations to dispense supplies, or you end up with chaos; and that's no matter how civilized the country. I'd expect the same thing to happen in an upscale US community during any emergancy situation, in fact, I don't remember experiancing of any disaster supply dispersal (and I've experianced the aftermaths of tornado, floods, wild fire, mass power outages, and "civil unrest") that did not have some sort of both security and Command and Control center in charge of the logistics of determining when and where to have the relief handouts.

Haele

[Waiting For Everyman]

25. +1 Exactly. n/t

[sandyd921]

27. So you'd rather they hadn't brought supplies

and couldn't report on what is happening there?

[blondeatlast]

4. Wish I could rec yours and some other very wise and knowledgeable DUers threads a thousand times.

The armchair quarterbacking by those that all of a sudden swallow the media horror show is making me ill.

Thanks, PT. k/r

[Peacetrain]

7. The ground is still shaking and other countries are trying to come into another country

to help.

I cannot even imagine in my worst nightmare, what the people of Haiti in the Port au Prince area are going through.

[BunkerHill24]

6. CNN is doing good job showing Sanjay putting on bandage

oh, the humility!


on edit: never leave without your :sarcasm:

[KittyWampus]

9. your sarcasm certainly solves a lot of problems. And if Sanjay's bandage inspires people to open

their wallets and hearts one more time, good for Haiti.

[BunkerHill24]

24. If anything like that would inspire all of us...I say more power to humility..

[kayla9170]

37. The UN Relief Doctor's LEFT THE BUILDING......

Leaving Sanjay the only Doctor on the scene. At least he did not leave the people there (at that time).

[NYC_SKP]

8. One thing for sure, almost nobody on this board has a fucking clue what's really going on...

...or what it would really take to handle whatever the fuck IS really going on.

But plenty of people are happy to point fingers and cast blame and doubt and compare this to Katrina, yada yada yada.

UTTER

BULLSHIT

We can donate, we can pray, we can try to find out more.

Other than that, it's all opinionating and blaming bullshit.

K and R, Peacetrain.

:kick:

[Peacetrain]

13. 2 million people homeless.. I can hardly wrap my head around that

140,000 dead conservatively.. 40,000 buried, 100,000 bodies in the streets and the ground is still shaking.

NYC, this is horrific.

And trying to do a simplistic comparison to the botched Bush plans of Katrina in the United States is ludicrous.

[Jennicut]

17. It is on a way bigger scale then Katrina.

More people that need help and getting around could be even more logistically harder then in New Orleans. There was some roads that they were still able to use. Not sure about in Haiti.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Some roads are but here is another problem

that many people don't get, since the geography is extremely mountainous.

The other thing is... what passes for roads are narrow. The problems of moving gear is not that dissimilar than the ciudades perdidas in Tijuana. So some of your really heavy gear that is wide, is hard to move.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. SOme of us can make informed guesses, but

that is only a few of us... and they are just that GUESSES. Informed by actual experience in the field.

[NYC_SKP]

20. You are among the few here with some authentic experience.

And, to your credit, you're not posting incredulous crap about how this is a repeat of Katrina.

I can't imagine anything harder than addressing this kind of disaster in an impoverished country that already had homelessness and crime and shoddy infrastructure.

For some here to take it to the level of comparing it to Katrina and declaring various US efforts as failures is just sad and disturbing.

Know what I mean?

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I know what you mean

and to me they fall in the category of... the army is meals on wheels kinds of comments by El Rushbo

This is amazing... but on a reality scale what I am seeing is a very fast response, and good response

Yes, there will be an after action finger pointing\ lessons learned... there always is...

[RoyGBiv]

30. Absolutely ...

I had to walk away from this place earlier. It's happening all over again, people making this disaster about them and their desire to score debate points.

I called my daughter and talked with her awhile, thankful she's in a warm house and has food in her pantry. Then I played with my cat. Then I figured out I don't really need that new graphics card I was going to get tomorrow and sent that money to the Red Cross.

That's all I can do.

I'm sure not going to sit here all holier-than-thou and pretend I have the first clue what this is like or that I have any ability or knowledge whatsoever that would make me or my ideas better and getting done what needs to get done.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Good on you, after I cover parent's stay in hospital

sending another fifty, but to the International Red Cross. I have my reasons not to trust the ARC... that field experience...

Ok it happened before Katrina, so perhaps they've gotten a reality check and humble pie...

[RoyGBiv]

32. I hear ya ...

I've spent the last couple days trying to figure out the best place to send what little I can, and I finally decided all that attempted decision making wasn't doing anyone any good. I have my own issues with ARC going back to some tornadoes in OK when I was a civil defense volunteer, and I'm hesitant to donate to them because of it.

I actually split my donation between Direct Relief (link on the flag in my sig) and ARC, hoping some of it gets where it needs to go.

[uppityperson]

11. And the rescue crews have to provide their own food, water, other supplies too

They can't just go help and be taken care of, but have to bring their own stuff to survive on else they need rescuing also

[blondeatlast]

15. So did the media. When I read "how did the media get there"

I respond by explaining that fact--and then facepalm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. +20 and that includes the press

they also travel as self contained units

[cbdo2007]

12. No but it does make Million$$ for CNN and turns their anchors into stars....

[Truthiness Inspector]

18. But can't we find a way to make this America's fault?

I'm being sarcastic of course, but the way some posts read, you'd think we bear the responsibility for this crisis.

No we don't. And we are offering tons of aid, publically and privately which is the right thing to do. I don't know what else we can do besides GIVE and HELP; we didn't cause this earthquake.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I am sure some think that Obama found Bush's quake key

And sadly I am not kidding.

[liberalmuse]

26. It's frustrating to watch...

we're talking about tens of thousands of people sent to help over 3 million people in need. It's going to be rough, and it's going to take time - time these people don't have, and here we sit, in our comfort, helplessly watching, wishing we could do more than donate a few piddly dollars. The international community is doing the best they can, and blaming Obama (as usual) is not going to help the people of Haiti get the help they so desperately need any faster. He and other world leaders have acted pretty quickly and have coordinated help to get there as fast as humanly possible considering the conditions. I wish good thoughts would help. I wish there were a god, and if there were, I wish he/she gave a shit, but we're all we have, and we are doing the best we can with whatever help we are able to offer. Frankly, I'd rather read posts from people who are angry and frustrated, because that means they care, and are feeling the suffering of part of the human, a part of them rather than listen to some famewhore gasbag tell people to turn their backs on their fellow human beings, because that is the basest, easiest and most disgraceful and cowardly thing a person can possibly do and if there is a hell, that's the road you want to take.

[Truthiness Inspector]

29. Your rant is good, but only to a point

I assume you are talking about Rush Limbaugh, and he did not tell people not to contribute. What he did say was contribute to legit charities not the government who is truly wasteful in so many ways. Do you disagree with that? Rush is not incorrect in stating that our tax dollars are already headiing to Haiti; are they not? We contribute voluntarily as well, and he has not discouraged that; rather make good sense decisions on donations so that they matter.

I like my donations to go mostly to the people I intend for them to help, how about you?

[Berry Cool]

39. You are WRONG about what Rush said.

He told people not to contribute to the Red Cross by going to the whitehouse.gov site because Obama would probably skim off the donations for his own political purposes. He DID discourage voluntary contributions. ALL of them. Period!!!!

[BeFree]

34. Exactly

The people don't need us sitting back making excuses, they need us raising hell.

They need us to not make excuses, but to be pushing the help to get there faster.

[kayla9170]

35. A Sad Story from Today in Haiti.........

A Candle for the Soul of this BRAVE Little 11 Year Old Girl................


This little Girl died today according to the report Ivan Watson at CNN. She was pulled from under a building yesterday. Could not get to full medical help fast enough. This is so sad, it makes me want to cry---
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/15/video-girl-11-pulled-from-rubble/

[LatteLibertine]

36. Too bad Boss Limbaugh

hasn't figured out this isn't a game.