Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face

[scheming daemons]

"We'll show them! Let the Republicans win the Massachusetts senate seat! That will show the Democratic Party not to fuck with us liberals anymore!"


No. It won't.


Because all of the polls in Massachusetts show that the reason this race is close is because the INDEPENDENTS are moving away from Dems and toward the GOP.


So you know what the result of a Coakley loss will be? The political expedient thing to do... in other words, work to capture the Independents back.

And how does the Democratic Party do that? By moving to the right.



So many of you have forgotten how absolutely horrendous this nation was under Republican rule that you can't even relish how much better it is now. But because you haven't gotten your complete, 100%, liberal utopia in 12 months - you're going to "Show them DLC bastards" by sitting at home and letting the GOP take Ted Kennedy's seat.

But in reality... you are going to get the exact OPPOSITE result that you wanted. A more conservative government.


The way to get what you want is to defeat moderate Dems in the primaries... not to work for their defeat in the general election. And if you're sitting at home or voting third-party, you're working for the GOP - even if you won't admit it to yourself.


There is a concerted effort on the right to demoralize Democrats to keep them from the polls. It's in the media barrage we're seeing on TV ... and it's in places like right here on DU where several "fake left" posters spend day after day spinning everything about Obama and the Democrats as negatively as they can - but pretending to do it from the "far left" point of view.



Massachusetts Dems... if you let Coakley lose you are going to open up a pandora's box and end up with a worse government than we just replaced in the 2006 and 2008 elections.



Spare me the faux angst about the Health Care Reform bill. It isn't perfect, but it goes farther than anything we've had in 40+ years.... and if you think that defeating this bill will cause a better bill to come down the pike you're kidding yourself.

If this Health Care Reform bill dies, then it will be decades before ANY congress EVER takes up the issue again. After what Hillary's attempt did to the Democratic party in '94.... if we fail to produce some reform this time, you will never ever ever ever ever see it in your lifetimes.


If you're sitting home or voting third-party in Massachusetts... you're working to make America a worse place.

Even if you won't admit it to yourself.

[tekisui]

1. I believe in Mass. Coakley will do well.

[scheming daemons]

2. If the faux polls show it close enough, that gives the GOP/Diebolds cover

...to steal it.

[jonathon]

8. That would be a legitimate concern.

Really, I don't think it is as close as they are trying to paint it. And, if they can steal MA and get away with it, we are really cooked!

[PM Martin]

6. What makes you feel that?

[renegade000]

3. this is an important point

even if you HATE the democratic candidate, you still need to show up to the polls and at least vote for some progressive third-party candidate or write-in someone you feel shares your views. not voting tells the political parties absolutely nothing about the opinions of the electorate.

[PM Martin]

4. With reluctance, I give this post a rec'd.

[whyverne]

5. I hate indies! Make up your damn mind! Jerks. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

9. Me, too! Step up to the plate and take a stand!

Here in NY you have to belong to a party to vote in the primaries. And it's not exactly like the candidates from the opposing parties are so similar that you need to leave your options open... And you can vote for whomever you want in the general, anyway... :eyes:

[jonathon]

7. It is a catch 22 for many people.

It seems to me the dems keep moving further right no matter what, but I don't think it is because of the people. I think it because of the corporate donors.

I live in MA and will vote for Coakley but I think the dem voters will just lose more faith and lose more races if they govern to the right. Steering right is not what the majority wants, so why go that way? It doesn't make any sense at all. MA is a liberal state and if they lose us, it does not bode well for them.

[scheming daemons]

10. If Brown wins, it will be MORE evidence to the party that they aren't enough to the right...

Because Coakley will get 90% of the Dems..... but if she loses, it will be because of the INDEPENDENTS.


...and they are in the middle.


And the loss will mean the Dem party moves to the right.



You may not like that, but that WILL be the result.


Any Massachusetts Democrat that stays home of votes third party is voting to move the Democratic party further to the right... no matter what reason they THINK they are voting, the end the result will be a more conservative government.

[jonathon]

20. I think the problem is people think they will move to the right no matter what....

Look, I voting for her. She isn't my first choice by far, but I hope that maybe we can hold her feet to the fire and keep her as honest as possible. That may or may not work out.

I am a member of the local democratic party, and you have some people that don't think it will make a difference. They are upset about health care and the bailouts. And, those are legitimate things, major things. And, your argument is that if they don't vote for candidates they believe won't represent them, they will get candidates who won't represent them. So, the dems will move to represent them less? My question is if they are that short-sighted, how can they lead us at all?

If that is the case, we are in serious trouble because there is only so far that game can be played without ostracizing the majority of their base, and then where will they be?

People have been told so often that if they don't vote for establishment dems they won't be represented at all. And, people feel like they are being played. People don't like that.

We aren't going to win elections for dems if they don't work with us and fight for their base.

I have been working on the ground to convince people to vote for Coakley, but I wouldn't have the arrogance to lecture people who are out of work or can't afford health care under the MA system that there concerns are shallow or wrong. That doesn't win votes and it just keeps us further apart.

I hope you are wrong and that the dems are better then what you describe. It really isn't that complicated. Stand up for the base and they will stand up for you.

[Nite Owl]

19. You are right about that jonathon

it's the corporate donors that matter not us.

Welcome to DU!:)

[jonathon]

22. Thanks!

[treestar]

24. That's just a cop out

Corporations can't vote. At best they can give the candidates money so they can make themselves heard on expensive media.

It's an insult to the voters that they cannot think for themselves at all and just vote in some subliminal way how the corporations tell them too. With the internet as a medium, there is even less excuse.

[MadHound]

11. Have you ever thought that you've mistakenly conflated the concepts "independents" and "centerists"

Most true liberals tend not to belong to any party, thus making them "independents". Thus when you try and make the argument that liberals aren't making a difference, it's the "independents" that are moving, well. . .:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

13. That's not what the polling shows in Mass.

The independents are moving to third party or staying home... they are actively move to Brown.

No matter how disgusted liberals are with Democrats, they wouldn't be voting for a right-wing nut like Brown.


The "independents" in Massachusetts are saying they are going to vote for Brown. That discounts your hypothesis.

[MadHound]

17. No, it doesn't

I've voted for a 'Pug before, just to get a corrupt Dem out of the House and I'm as liberal as they come. It happens in political races all the time. Hell, Gore would have won hands down in Florida if he hadn't been in favor of more off-shore drilling in Florida. That cost him the votes of four hundred self described liberal and two hundred thousand registered Democrats right there.

There has always been that "screw you" dynamic at work in American politics. One candidate is found to be too despicable by enough people, left, right and center, and they'll vote damn near anybody in. Or it could be that she is indeed paying for the sins of the Democratic party. I know that it certainly doesn't look go that she chose this moment in her campaign to go to a Big Insurance/Big Pharma campaign fundraiser. That's bound to piss a lot of people off. Nothing like coming straight on into this debate and essentially saying "I'm already bought and paid for."

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. & while we're at it, might as well write in Nader.

[scheming daemons]

14. Yeah... that'll show the Dems

NOT.


That will have the same disastrous result for the country as it had in 2000.



The Nader voters in 2000, who decided in their minds that there was no difference between Bush and Gore, are as responsible for the disaster that the last decade was as much as the Supreme Court was.

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. Same shit seems to be happening now. Sure, give it back to

to the gop, they aren't so bad. Look at what that bastard Ahnold is doing now that the chips are down. Take away
payments to the sick & blind? NO PROBLEM! Sell off priceless public land for nothing? WHY NOT!

Around this forum it's all abstract chin rubbing about this & that. The fact is that those bastards HAVE TO BE STOPPED!

[WeDidIt]

15. It's too late

The far left has already pulled the trigger.

The bullet is on the way to the foot.

the only thing left is figuring out how they will blame shooting themselves in the foot on some all powerful all controlling bogeyman they attribute to the "DLC".

[jonathon]

21. I wouldn't resign to a Coakley loss

It is far from inevitable.

[jotsy]

16. That's a tough one for me, if I were in the state, I'd have to weigh my disdain for two party

politics against the special circumstances in play. The dems earned the spot in '08, but on the rep of a high profile and long standing incumbent. The national theater is at a point where lines need shoring. A 'support the party' position is a lean in a surprising direction for me, but where I think I'd be headed if the question were put to me.

[donheld]

23. !