What is happening in Haiti?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

The situation in Haiti appears to be deteriorating. CNN is reporting at one hospital doctors and other medical staff
were evacuated for security reasons. They left patients injured and post-op completely alone.

Anderson Cooper is reporting there are no significant relief operations on the ground, in the community.

We are now approaching the fourth day since the earthquake and it seems reasonable to expect relief efforts
to be in full operation. It's just devasting watching what these people are going through.

I hate to say it, but if the resources don't get there soon and we start to see violence in the streets, this will fall on Obama shoulders.

Not fair, buts thats what will happen.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. LOL

That Obama. If he's not causing the recession or starting a war in Iraq, he's busy messing around with the Presidential Earthquake Machine.

[blondeatlast]

4. The Bilderburgers slipped him the key on Monday, but he's trying to quit smoking

and the withdrawals made him forget to use it.

[BunkerHill24]

17. i think Obama came out and uttered what he couldn't deliver

My Gawd, where is the help? Where is America's power to do 'shock & Awe"? We see people still dying, and un-trained locals doing the humanitarian work? where is projected american power?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. I think you came out and uttered some goofy ass shit.

My Gawd, where's your sense? Did you fall off the turnip truck? You claim to be watching news, are you not paying attention? Where's your God now?

[BunkerHill24]

24. I think the focus is about Haiti

..and I doubt we have done enough yet. It's almost five days, and we have yet to deliver what is promised to the Haitians.

Lets focus on that, shall we?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. I don't think that's your or the OP's focus at all.

Hait's just an object for your exploitation.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

26. Why don't you tell me what my focus is.

Why are you being suck a jerk. What is this entertainment for you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Exploiting a humanitarian tragedy for the seediest of political purposes?

You WANT there to be a problem with the relief effort.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

32. Right. Little ole me is in a position

to exploit a tragedy. You have got to be kidding me. Yep, that's me, I want to see people dying and suffering needlessly
to further my political agenda. Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

Your a drama queen and I doubt you have an ounce of compassion for the misery happening in Haiti.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Do you know how ridiculous YOU sound?

"Your a drama queen and I doubt you have an ounce of compassion for the misery happening in Haiti."

How deliciously ironic.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

36. "Deliciously ironic?"

Is that how you speak in real life? What a phoney you are. don't waste anymore of my time.

This tragedy is not entertainment to most of us, but you're apparently having a real good time.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Most of us?

Most of us think you're completely full of shit, if you haven't already noticed.

It's pretty much just you and Dingus.

[BunkerHill24]

30. I think you are wrong......

I think you are simpleton asshat.....your focus is on personal attacks.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. What you think doesn't matter.

You've already established that in post #17.

[BunkerHill24]

35. We all here to exchange ideas...I don't claim to be superior to you..

FAIL!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Well that's one thing you've got right.

You ain't superior to me.

You've got a funny notion of "ideas" though.

[BunkerHill24]

39. "You've got a funny notion of "ideas" though."

I know...I'm DUer. Thanks for your civility.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. I'm an astronaut.

[BunkerHill24]

41. Oh, remind me...you were Jack Nicholson in Terms of Endearment?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. No, I was Dabney Coleman in Terms of Endearment.

And I'm just here for an honest conversation.

[BunkerHill24]

45. Me too...am here to chat. No Mambo Jumbo, LOL

[blondeatlast]

20. You cannot be serious. Please tell me you aren't serious.

[quiller4]

105. Are you serious? There are still people dying, yes, but trained docs

and rescue workers are spread throughout the city. We aren't seeing much tape of their efforts on US news and I'm not sure why.

One of the things not shown is the helecopter air lift of seriously wounded to the hospital ship in the harbor. Why has there been film of this on Canadian and not US TV?

[Hannah Bell]

123. that's interesting. i saw some coverage this am & eve, & the main thing i took away

was ruination & black boys running around with machetes.

what would be the point in focusing on those aspects & not, e.g. the evacuation you mention?

[grytpype]

2. It's because Obama is a sellout!!!!!!!!

[tekisui]

3. I can't believe this.

I just can't believe I am reading this.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. I can.

This is the cancer that's been killing DU for some time now.

[EFerrari]

6. I'm getting Katrina flashbacks and all I did was watch on teevee.

This is a really difficult moment but it will pass very soon. Meanwhile, the onlookers are feeling pretty helpless, too.

[Parker CA]

27. Beyond ridiculous for sure. Complete head scratcher.

[grytpype]

7. Obama has disappointed me!!!!! Again!!!!!!!!

I am very disappointed!!!!

It makes me cry!!!!

:cry:

[firedupdem]

8. unrec.... n/t

[NYC_SKP]

9. Fall on Obama's Shoulders? Well, sure, if we get our opinions from Anderson Cooper.

First, this is not a US territory or protectorate, it's a foreign country.

Second, Haiti had homelessness and hunger and crime and strife and a shitty infrastructure BEFORE the devastating earthquake, so any comparison to Katrina, or even to the Christmas time tsunami, is full of Fail.

Third, in a disaster of this magnitude and under these circumstances, the only thing you can count on is that anything you try is not gonna work well if at all.

So, at the end of the day, if only 20% of attempts to deliver aid effectively work as planned, that's doing pretty well.

And, to be certain, plenty plans will fail and many will die, but that is the way it is going to be no matter how hard we try.

I wish people would thinking CNN is giving us the reality and stop thinking this is like the movies, or like the firetruck coming down Elm Street.

Hell, individual battles in wars are easier than this kind of effort.

:patriot:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

18. Unfortunately the public gets their perceptions from the media

I really don't need to hear the ugly sarcasm. That's the real cancer here. People are anxious and concerned about other people...how quaint.

I understand the huge problem of getting rescue operations in place, but regardless if this is an international crisis, the bulk of the burden
will be on our plate. I don't want to see Obama getting crap for any of this. That's all I'm saying.

[NYC_SKP]

22. Rant was directed toward Cooper, sorry to have sounded like it was toward you.

I'm reading some seriously twisted OPs blaming Obama and others.

I know you're warning us about the spin, not buying into it.

I'm gonna go to bed.

:pals:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

23. Thank you.

I'm so upset over what I'm watching on the news, so I come here because I think this is a safe place to vent and I read these ugly sarcastic
comments. It just makes me sick and a little sad.

[treestar]

137. Right on!

It's using it for one's own entertainment to think there can be a dramatic, on teevee, immediate payoff! It's not a movie!

[blondeatlast]

10. Starvation, dehydration, no infrastructure, no security--it was horrible on Monday.

And the earthquake occurred on Tuesday.

But keep up that armchair qbing and panic if it soothes you.

[NYC_SKP]

13. Yep. That's what I've been pointing out.

What could be worse than an earthquake on top of the chaos and disorder and suffering that was ALREADY THERE?

:thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. The security resources are JUST LANDING

two companies of 82nd, and 100 cops from Mexico is not what I call full security...

Look things will get better every day, they also had food distributions today, and water...

I know it does not seem it is moving, but it is moving, actually faster than Katrina, and far better organized.

I know when the reference is that clusterfuck, of course all will look like that clusterfuck, but this is not the movies.

By the way for some perspective, Katrina affected half a million people... in the city.

Here you have three million people.

I was VERY critical of Katrina for many reasons... but this is actually moving FASTER and far better than Katrina... there is CLEAR coordination internationally as well.

I know hard to see it... but there is this time-distance factor and lack of infrastructure to start with... I mean the Vinson LEFT her escorts behind... and the at least two navies will not get there en force until Sunday-Morning. There is just how fast you can travel on water, it is physics.

[jtuck004]

12. What??!!! They are not checking with CNN to make sure they are

up to date? Nobody is telling Anderson Cooper about their every move??!! What a cluster.

Someone wake up the president and tell him to get some order in this, and to brief AC 360.

Otherwise we are going to have 3 more days of the this guy bringing in more broadcast equipment (wonder if they thought to bring water, or if they are using water that could have gone to the people who need it?) and running around the 6 blocks that still have soldiers in sight and try to increase his ratings by telling us how he can't see big ships from his front porch.

Clown.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. LOL

I was watching cable news and they kept asking the correspondent what was going on and he said "well, I'm not seeing anything. I don't see any trucks. I don't see anything at all." And then I switch to PBS which broadcasts real news, and their correspondent was on top of things, and was reporting supplies going out, and that everything was progressing as expected.

[blondeatlast]

16. Yup. Welcome to DU.

I like your style! :toast:

[MrMickeysMom]

15. Well, a lot of people say a lot of things...

But, that doesn't mean it's true.

The fact is that many countries are coming to aid Haiti, and the mix of countries is telling. This story is being kept alive, and the Red Cross website would be even more efficient if fucking assholes like Limbaugh and Pat Robertson wouldn't be working in the opposite direction. Between Robertson's diamond mines and Rush's millions in brain dead radio, I'm sure they could help this disaster, rather than make it worse.

And all you can say is what Obama will be blamed for?

Is DU's IQ dropping? Get serious.

[HeresyLives]

21. How did this get to be Obama's fault??

How did this even get to be Obama's job??

Lots of countries are pitching in, the US is one of many, and they are all struggling with difficult conditions.

Give the man a break, he isn't responsible for everything that happens on the planet!

[UTUSN]

29. Things are just so clear behind a keyboard. X-post from t'other thread. n/t

[donheld]

33. Just STFU

[SeattleGirl]

42. How would that fall on Obama's shoulders? He has

authorized a lot of money for Haiti, he has authorized the troops to go there and help, etc.

The sad fact is, so many people in Haiti were affected by the earthquake, and so many structures including roads, the airport, the port, etc., that getting those working had to be one of the top priorities. Without a way to get supplies and food/water to people, all the money and supplies in the world won't do any good.

That's not Obama's fault, nor is it the fault of the people who went there to help. From what I can tell, they are doing their damned best to help people.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

48. Obama came out the other day with a dictate that he wouldn't

tolerate anything than everybody doing their job and getting help to Haiti quickly.

One of my concerns is that Robert Gates and the military in general would undermine him.
I really didn't get a chance to express this because I got distracted by silly comments.

There have been other situations where I have not trusted some of the rhetoric coming out of the
DOD.

I realize this is not Obama's fault. My concern is those that are not in his camp undermining the operations
and creating a situation that would be reported as his problem.

Of course my main concerns are the people of Haiti. Four days is long time. If we don't see some meaningful
help arriving by tomorrow this is going to get much uglier than it already is.

[PacerLJ35]

50. Bullcrap...the military isn't trying to undermine Obama

Get a clue...as soon as news came out about the earthquake, a number of crews here at my base were put into Bravo alert (ie, when the call comes you have an hour to show up), and they've been flying down there daily...and our base is only one of many that's sending aircraft down there. We WANT to go do this...it's pissing me off that I'm in an upgrade training program and can't fly down there. So take your anti-military rhetoric elsewhere because it's a) not constructive and b) untrue.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

55. It's not anti military rhetoric.

It's a fact there are those out there working to undermine Obama. If you don't believe that than you're naive.

Sending aircraft is great. We need to see security on the ground in place so relief agencies can do their job.

[PacerLJ35]

58. "...the military in general would undermine him." -sounds pretty anti-military to me

[EmeraldCityGrl]

63. The general that was in charge of Katrina,

not sure what his name is, but he was interviewed and was very critical of the situation. He's military and I'm just stating something
that came directly from him.

[PacerLJ35]

68. He may be military but he's not there

You're quoting a guy who's not there, and that you don't know. You read about his "opinion". I'm telling you from first-hand accounts of what we're trying to do to get aid into the region. I am at a base that's the largest C-130 base in the US. I have friends that fly C-17s and special ops C-130s. Everyone is busy...people were called up, they said bye to their family for a few days, and left to start flying. You act as if the military would be proud to stand in Obama's way, and that's just pure and simple nonsense.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

73. You're being defensive.

I'm not trying to undermine the job You do. I'm sure you are on top of everything happening within your area.
No where in what I said did I express the military would be "proud" to stand in Obama's way. I said there were
those in the DOD that would/might undermine his intentions.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm trying to be honest in responding to you.This is not personal.

[tnlefty]

139. General Honore'?

IIRC.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. I'll ask this again

since this seems to be a popular question

How fast do you think the First MEU can actually move, as they are on OH ANFIBS?

And tomorrow it will be easier, there are forces coming in from all over, not just the US, but the bulk for LOGISTICS reasons... will get there on Monday.

I am sure 100 cops from Mexico, and 400 Paratroopers could secure the city... NOT.

Jeezus age, people need to buy a clue.

[BeFree]

57. Boots, sure

The Brass has a hidden agenda. They are more like Fox news than any of us would ever want. Of course, they make a living offa killin'. And a damn good living if they play their cards right.

So, be careful proposing that we fall lockstep in behind the military, we know better.

[PacerLJ35]

59. I've heard absolutely no issues with aid or help being denied or held up

In fact, the military is scrambling to get stuff down there. The "brass" (I assume you mean the officers) get paid off a standard pay scale, and stays the same whether we're at war or not. I'm in the military and I simply do not see this "hidden agenda".

[BeFree]

61. Right

The military is a benign operation with no political leanings? No hidden agendas? Like I said, some of us know better.

I'd bet that there are some brass that would just love for Obama to go away and if they can make him look bad they will. And there just may be a few racists in there? Ya think?

[PacerLJ35]

65. I am part of the "brass" you speak of

I have a number of friends who work at various levels within the military. As a whole, the military is much less partisan than the US population in general. For the most part we all put aside our political leanings while getting the job done. Sure, some of the other officers I know probably don't like Obama, and may even express this opinion privately. But when told to take aid to Haiti, they are saluting smartly and doing what everyone knows is the right thing...help these people.

Please check your partisan politics at the door. To paint US military officers as partisan hacks is an insult to nearly every one of them (and me).

[EmeraldCityGrl]

71. Personally, I'm speaking of the bureaucrats in the DOD.

[PacerLJ35]

83. The only bureaucrats that have the ability to undermine Obama

are the civilians. The military guys are bound by the UCMJ. In any case, the entire department works for Obama, he has the ability to hire and fire anyone at the DoD. Officers are all commissioned by the PRESIDENT, and I do believe my commissioning document says I serve at the discretion of the president. Same goes for the civilians.

IMO, from being around the military my whole life, they really do try to maintain a political-neutral footing.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

88. I'll try to take your word on that. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. By the way that goes for other militaries as well

officers and men (and women) stand in front of the Constitution...

Hubby is a Navy Chief Ret, and I served in somebody else's flag... and it was funny how the rules regarding politics were the same.

[BeFree]

72. well

You are big brave boys, you can take a bit of painting from us little folks, eh?

I was indoctrinated into the military at an early age. I know a bit about the mentality that pervades it, and decided at an early age to say fuck that shit. My right as an American, wouldn't you say? You know, constitution and all that?

Anyway, thanks for your service. Just remember why you are serving and we'll all get along just fine.

As for today, I have serious and grave questions as to why the brass is not moving as fast as it should against an unarmed and docile population. What is it they are afraid of? Do they need tanks? Why all the machine guns on the airstrip?

And if manpower on the ground is so scarce, why not hire a bunch of the citizens there to help move the stuff?

I guess, the thing is, just what is the big bad military afraid of?

[PacerLJ35]

79. I really don't need you to remind me why I serve...

You have every right to not join. I wouldn't ever criticize you if you didn't. But I don't get the shifty "the constitution, remember?" rhetoric. You act as though everyone in the military has some kind of nefarious motivation.

[BeFree]

87. Gawd

You got that ass backwards. Got a chip on your shoulder?

If you don't know what the constitution stands for and says, maybe you aren't in the right place?

[PacerLJ35]

92. Thanks for the condescending attitude

I do know what the Constitution says, FWIW. No chip, just don't understand this angle you've been working.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

67. Exactly.

It's appeared in the past that they have been trying to manipulate the strategies in Afghanistan. Then there's the Fort Hood Shooter.
Why was he allowed to remain in the service given all we have learned about his background. There just seems to be forces with their
own agenda at work.

[PacerLJ35]

69. The Ft Hood shooter was allowed to remain in service because the military has become

very sensitive to criticism over the years...it was a case of political correctness gone mad. No one was afraid of confronting the guy because they didn't want to get in trouble for stereotyping him, etc.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

78. And that kind of mentality will seep into every operation they

are involved in.The military has huge problems right now. Eight years of war. They are under great stress and war weary.
Once again I'm not criticizing you personally, I thank you for your service, just stressing things are not as they should be.

Also, there are 9000 UN troops in Haiti. Where the hell are they?

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Less than 9,000, a few got killed, and more than a few

got injured... and those of who have watched the TV saw the blue helmets in the streets today.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. There is a reason that they hinted at in the report

you just need to interpret it.

He is in a mission critical Military Occupational Specialty.

No, they did not come out and say it... but that is why the doctors could not get rid of him, his direct CO at Bethesda, who tried.

And I am sure some of that will be under strict review.

[Jamastiene]

76. +1

Thank you.

[FrenchieCat]

44. The Magic Negro fails to do the impossible once again......

it was warned that he didn't walk on water,
nor could he rescue 3 million people from a 7.6 earthquake
on an foreign ISLAND that is called the poorest in the western hemisphere,
which had barely any infrastructure to begin with....
on cue, like in the movies, exactly in the last two days.
The guy needs to put on his superman suit pronto.....
or else, he's failed.

[Jennicut]

49. It is a disturbing trend, of people wanting him to perform miracles like fixing this disaster

with a quick snap of the fingers.
This is worse then Katrina. Way, way worse. They are doing the best they can right now.

[FrenchieCat]

52. I keep imagining the next time there is a mine that collapse,

and if it takes more than 15 minutes to get the 15 miners out,
Obama will be blamed.

[Number23]

118. +223,000

[treestar]

138. This Haiti thing is one thing they should all be united on

They can criticize Afghanistan and the health care plan all they want, but once they take it this far, they show they are just haters, wanting to be negative about every single thing.

[PacerLJ35]

46. People need to realize that efforts like this take a lot of time, effort and work

It doesn't happen over night. I think Americans are too used to instant gratification, getting what they want, when they want it. I was watching CNN and they interviewed an LA County rescue team, and as one guy was tightening the cargo straps down on one of the pallets about to be loaded onto a C-17, the news correspondent said "so why is this stuff still here? Why isn't it in Haiti where it can help people?"

Really? I mean come on...this isn't like packing your suitcase for a weekend trip to the beach. It takes a lot of sweat and hard work to prepare all the equipment for shipment over many miles aboard a military cargo plane...not to mention each rescue worker must prepare their own personal gear too.

[FrenchieCat]

47. It reminds me when Miners get stuck in a mine,

and it takes hours to get them out....
and folks become impatient as though
they are watching a dramatic sit com,
that should be resolved in 30 minutes.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

51. Granted. But, it's understood

that after an earthquake if relief isn't in place by the third day many more people die. Somehow we need to see efforts made to
get that relief in place in that timeline. We are probably going to see more earthquakes of this magnitude in the future, seems like
something we should at least strive to do.

Also, what I was picking up from the news was that the problem holding up the relief efforts was security. That's why the doctors and staff
were removed from one location. As far as I understood the US military was in charge of security. Maybe not.

[PacerLJ35]

54. You can't plan for every situation

The military is doing the best they can. You can only do so much with one operable runway, clogged roads and a closed port. Yesterday a friend of mine flew a planeload of infantry from the 82nd Airborne to Haiti. Several C-17s brought in the 621st CRW (Contingency Response Wing) that's full of logistics specialists and equipment to move cargo around. You have to prepare the loads, have load plans, and put crews into crew rest before anything can happen. Besides it wasn't until day two when people finally grasped the extent of the issue.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. The docs that was a UN decision

and as much as the US is taking lead... two companies of the 82nd and 100 Federal Cops from Mexico... (I guess they could arm the Mexican Marines already on the ground too, but that would remove them from search and rescue) does not make extremely good security YET... all this will be scaled up as resources continue to come in from all over the world, that includes mounties, Canadian military, the brazilains are sending more people...

But right now that is max 500 people and 100 of them are not technically trigger pullers.

This is time distance at play here. It does take physical time to get people from point A to Point B.

[Jamastiene]

80. From what I read the UN's center for just these types of emergencies

in Haiti was destroyed in the quake. I would hardly fault our military when they are trying to do something good in the world. Their efforts are commendable in this case. I'm one of the biggest complainers about war, but when our military goes in to help people, you won't hear me complaining then. I cut them some slack when I see the magnitude of devastation down there. This is bigger than Katrina. It is a true tragedy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Well if I can go to the store and buy an IPOD...

well what most people miss is that this same IPOD took oh two weeks to get from the factory to the store. One and a half if they want to rush it, and only if transporting by air. If transporting by sea (most likely) it takes upwards of two months.

Yes I am taking into account all the warehousing and all that... nobody is using express mail to move an IPOD. At least not APPLE... and the plane ride... only during the holidays if somebody made a mistake at orders...

Nor do they get the cost to train each firefighter, about a million a head...

[Hannah Bell]

127. If that was the "correspondent's" question, there's the answer. People's views depend on the kind

of information they're given, & its framing. The "correspondent" framed the question as though help were being delayed.

Another poster said the Canadian media covered a large evacuation of injured to a hospital ship offshore, while the US media didn't, for example.

I've gotten a very bad feeling from a lot of the coverage so far. On the very first day some bimbo was gleefully discussing the possibility of violence. It was sickening.

[kayla9170]

60. Too much dying, not enough help.........

[PacerLJ35]

62. So....

So what I can gather reading from friends and news stories, we have an aircraft carrier, an amphibious assault ship with helicopters, numerous other ships, a hospital ship, about a dozen or so C-17s, about a similar number of C-130s, an Army brigade, and a number of other agencies all headed that way...

And you're complaining? The aircraft/ships/vehicles/troops we're sending ASAP is more than nearly all the stuff other countries' are sending... combined

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. There is that little factoid that the US has a large military

but yes, the world is responding... pixie dust... I wish I could use pixie dust... and make all much better.

[kayla9170]

74. If I hear one more comment about these so called

EXCUSE MAKERS I will :puke: This 11 Year Old Girl DIED today:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/15/video-girl-11-pulled-from-rubble/

I am SICK of the excuses. No, I cannot go help but there are people that are in Haiti that can. There are food supplies and water RIGHT NOW in Haiti to help some of these people. The Boliva UN workers managed to pass out food to a crowd that looked like 1000 people with NO PROBLEM.

The military (US and OTHERS) are PLAYING GAMES and I am a Obama Supporter. I do not blame this mess of getting help to the Haiti people on Obama. Personally, I think this pull back crap is happening to make President Obama look bad....REMEMBER the US has taken the lead in this and many people that are sitting at the airport, looking pretty, knows this. They know the longer the bad images and reports stay on TV, the more it indirectly affect President Obama.

THANK GOD Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is going to Haiti tomorrow. I bet my bottom dollar, these 9000 or so sleeping on the job military personnel will get off their assets and get RELIEF out to the Haitian People. THANK GOD for the UN of Bolivia tonight. THANK GOD for the reporter from the Dominican Republic Reporter that got down in the rubble to save a 11 month old girl today.

God continue to BLESS the people of Haiti and BLESS the souls of those that have passed on.

[PacerLJ35]

77. So are you saying the military is purposely NOT doing anything?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. Technically, she's calling them lazy.

[kayla9170]

89. Wrong, techinically , I am calling them, indepth

The Boliva UN Peacekeepers beat ALL military forces in Haiti today on actually getting food to the people. THANK GOD those people that stood in that long line today, got feed by the Bolivia UN Peacekeepers....they kept some people alive to see another day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. So did the 82nd Airborne

so did the Mexicans,

Look you are not getting this through... but this is not as easy as the pixie dust I wish I had.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

134. You claimed they were sleeping on the job. That's an accusation of laziness.

indepth isn't a real word.

Maybe you mean inept. Either way, you're full of shit.

[kayla9170]

85. Can You Read???

The Bolivia UN Force Managed to go outside the secure area of the airport, set up some lines, passed out food and NOBODY RIOTED. Bolivia....not ANY MILITARY force did that, not US, not Canada, not China, not UK, not RUSSIA....the freaking Bolivia UN PEACEKEEPERS!!! If Bolivia can manage to get this done today, why is the military forces that ARE THERE could not set up 5 or 6 more FOOD LINES and get this done.

You can call it what you want but I believe it is a attempt to make President Obama look bad. Secretary Clinton will make everyone get off their assets tomorrow....Watch!

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. So did the 82nd Airborne

This is not a competition...

Jeesus age this reminds me of the HOW COME THE ICELANDERS BEAT US TO THIS!!!!!

In the middle of the mission nobody gives a fuck who gets out first... as long as they do.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

82. +1,000,000

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. Here is a shocking reality to you

40K were buried today

They expect to bury another 100,000.

Can you wrap your head around that? Been to a few shindigs myself, and I cannot wrap my head around them.

And trust me, seen the stacks of bodies on the TV

[kayla9170]

121. Look, I see you have nothing really to say.........

Except for the missions you have been on. Great, I am happy for you and thank you for your service.

Still, many people in Haiti are suffering, now. The UN Troops from Bolivia helped. The Military (ALL OF THEM) was waiting for orders....day 4. It seems as if some people here either have a HARD time accepting the facts or either accepting that they are wrong today.

Either way, the people of Haiti are waiting and I am sure with Hillary Clinton on the way (with President Obama sending her there) I bet that we will see more movement from everybody tomorrow. This is a BLESSING for the Haitian people....that is REALLY MOST important. Not winning a disagreement on DU. Nite..........

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. Maybe I mssied the MEXICAN Marines on the ground

doing search and rescue...

Or for that matter the French Fire Firefighters or the IDF...

Wait... all of them ARE PART OF MILITARY FORCES that were out IN THE DAMN FUCKING FIELD...

And yes, the fucking reality is that at this point things are starting to move and the BEST YOU CAN DO is donate money.

[SidDithers]

66. Du'ers have gone completely fucking nuts over this...

keyboard disaster management must be a burgeoning career opportunity.



Sid

[EmeraldCityGrl]

84. Because we give a shit.

It can be a liability.

[SidDithers]

91. You may be full of caring and compassion...

but you know shit-all about disaster management and response.

Sid

[EmeraldCityGrl]

93. and your an expert? I doubt it.

[PacerLJ35]

95. And I doubt you are one either

I actually fly airlift aircraft, do airdrops, resupply operations, unimproved airfield ops, and have worked in and around cargo yards, logistics warehouses and the like. I worked as a logistics officer (yes, I'm a pilot but we multi-task) while stationed in Texas for a year...

Not everyone posting on this site is as clueless as you think.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

100. I wasn't responding to you.

You make alot of assumptions from what you read. Where did I say people were clueless?

And yes you've stated ad nauseam that you fly aircraft. I got it.

[SidDithers]

98. Certainly more experienced and knowledgeable...

about emergency planning and response than you are.

Sid

[Leopolds Ghost]

125. how so?

[Violet_Crumble]

101. I think they've got a much better idea of how things are than you do...

Sorry, but unlike you, they do seem to have a really good idea of how things work...

[kayla9170]

96. Us Caring and Compassioned Souls.....

Have donated to Haiti, have thought about the people of Haiti, wish that we could go down to Haiti and help BUT we do pray every night for the people of Haiti to make it one more day and for the Souls that rest with God RIGHT NOW from the people of Haiti.

I would hate if the world was not filled with some Caring and Compassioned souls...........

[PacerLJ35]

97. You think the rest of us are any different?

It's absolutely painful to be sitting in a training course and watching your good friends all load up and depart for Haiti...it sucks, and I wish I could join them down there but I can't. Many of the people who are now actively flying relief missions into Haiti have also donated money as well as their time. But I guess these US military folks are actually trying to hold up aid, according to some of you...

[kayla9170]

106. You have an issue with reading also.....

I stated ALL Military Personnel that are not out supplying supplies to the Haitian people.....ALL does not mean just the US military. The US Military ARE NOT THE ONLY FREAKING MILITARY force that are CURRENT ON THE GROUND in Haiti. Let me say this one more time tonight.....ANY MILITARY force could have managed to do what the Bolivian UN Peacekeepers did today but I did not see ANY Military force on the news doing it.

Again, GOD Bless the people of Haiti to survive one more day and pray for the Souls that are currently in the hands of the Almighty.

[Violet_Crumble]

108. Sorry, but I just have to say this..

It's been building up in me each time I read the multiple mentions of uppercase god....


THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS god!


Thank you

[kayla9170]

113. There is no such THING as GOD............

You need to be PRAYED for with a statement like that! IN CAPS---GOD BLESS THE ONES WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY SPEAK!!! GOD BLESS THE PEOPLE OF HAITI. O8)

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. Pray as much as you want if it makes you feel better

but you really want to make a little difference... find a trustworthy NGO and give money.

All those prayers will not get the boots on ground or the resources.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. You are right, why the 82nd was out there too

last time I checked they are part of the US Military you seem to hate.

Sorry, I hate this competition it helps nobody

Oh and by the way I did this shit for real too.

[kayla9170]

122. Here is cookie and a clap for you..........

Goodnight and I will continue to PRAY for the people of Haiti. I do not have any issue with my Faith or with stating that I PRAY.

GOD Bless the people of Haiti to make it one more night before help arrives. GOD bless the souls that are with the Almighty.

Goodnite.....talk among yourself.......

[Leopolds Ghost]

126. I love these fu**ng "rationalists" on DU who put down "caring and compassion"

while promoting "force protection" and "establishing security" first.

They don't know shit-all about disaster response either.

They just want an excuse to feel superior.

They just want to imagine there is a reason for the deliberateness of their "leaders'" logical and deliberate relief actions. there isn't. It's all learned habitual bullshit. Saving as many people as possible is not the first priority for them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. Ok I will ask the obivous question

what are your credentials since I have done this for real... and security IS part of any disaster plan...

[chowder66]

135. Nadin...I completely agree with you

The one thing I do not see anyone talking about on top of all of the real problems you have brought up is the report of 4000 loose prisoners. Call me crazy but that seems like at least one very good reason for establishing security. I am bringing this up with you since you are a regular poster and I am not. I thought maybe as you discuss the workings of the logistics, etc. this may be helpful information.

[Violet_Crumble]

94. Giving a shit doesn't give people a free pass to make ignorant calls...

And some of the stuff in this thread has been incredibly silly, what with all the blaming Obama and insisting that help should have arrived instantaneously.


Anyway, here's the DU Disaster Recovery Plan for Haiti:

1. Have RSPCA search and rescue officers jump from planes to save the poor kittys...time needed: ongoing task of top priority over several days...

2. Quickly build several new runways on some kind of flat bits of ground...time needed: 5 minutes

3. Fly a bunch of planes full of stuff to Haiti... time needed: a few hours

4. After it's been ascertained that all kitties are safe, feed the humans...time needed: 5 minutes

5. Solve world poverty....time needed: 1 minute...

[SidDithers]

104. +1...nt

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. You forgot the pixie dust

if I can find that pixie dust for real... I will not have to think of silly things like Time - Distance

:-)

[MarcoMcHairyPants]

70. It's truly terrible

No one deserves that.

[FrenchieCat]

75. It was a disaster waiting to happen.....

but the thing about disasters, especially of this magnitude,
is that people are going to suffer, and suffer a whole lot more
than we would ever imagine.
Problem is that it can't just be "undone"....
we're not that good; never have been.
wish we could be.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

86. I don't agree with you.

We are that good. As fucked up as this country is right now, we are never better than when things are at their worst.
That is one truth that our history has proven. And by "we" I mean the people and what we're able to do.

[FrenchieCat]

99. We have never been that good.......to be able to undo the undoable.....sorry.

and in fact, I can't think of one disaster of this magnitude where it was perceived that the rescue efforts could be termed as "flawless".

In fact, most places where these types of disasters happen, we get one puny footage and then that's it. When was the last time you had 24/7 reporting of an earthquake in Turkey, or in China somewhere? Yet you'll hear about 60,000 people dying, and no one, and I mean no one discusses the manner in which things were or weren't done....because most reasonable folks understand that it ain't never as easy as it sounds. Do you understand the topography of this region? Do you understand how people's houses were built one on top of the other on hills? That there were something like 7 or 8 hospitals servicing maybe 2 million people or something ridiculous like that! Don't you know there is a reason why there were so many relief workers in Haiti to being with; before the earthquake?

If we can't get a miner out of a mine in no time flat with all of the equipment available to us,
how do you think we can go in and lift all of the ruble there is to lift,
and feed and house everyone when talking about 2-3 million people?

It will be done eventually, but it's not an week-end project. Not even close. Not even for the big mighty United States.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

107. I'm relatively familiar with

the Island of Hispaniola. I was in the DR a month ago and am moving there in two years. It's a diverse land and very rugged in areas especially in the
mountainous regions separating Haiti and the DR.

I'm wondering how many days before we can expect reasonable relief efforts to be in place? Four, five, six, ten? How many days before the very basic needs of
food and water can be expected to be provided to three million people?. Rescuing the people in the rubble is pretty much out of the question at this point.

I don't care at this point whether it's the US, France or Bolivia.

[Leopolds Ghost]

128. "Stupid Deaths." how many thousands died because no one but the BOLIVIANS was there to dig ppl out?

No knock on the Bolivians, Anderson Cooper said Gupta recounted how they were helping people with no problem while US relief efforts are handicapped by halting, stingy attempts to deliver supplies that cause riots because not enough stuff is being handed out fast enough. Bolivians not having a problem, apparently.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

133. Kudos to the Bolivians.

I read they were distributing food as well. It may come down to the fact that the Bolivians were
not preoccupied with security. When the senior officer from the US was interviewed, he kept
stressing that security had to be in place before any relief efforts could begin. From everything
I've seen and read in the news, the Haitian people have been very cooperative with a couple
exceptions that can be expected anywhere. Under very difficult circumstances they've been wonderful.

[valerief]

90. It's almost like every five years a large population of black people in this hemisphere

are going to be left to suffer and die.

[FrenchieCat]

103. Eeyores are those who talk about the future like it is the past.

We are not going to leave people to suffer and die this time.

[quiller4]

102. Anderson Cooper is simply wrong but that isn't unusual.

One medical staff and temporary hospital was relocated but the docs interviewed said that it was because surgical equipment and power as well as security had been set up. The docs explained that they knew they had been in a temporary setup and were running out of diesel for the generator they were using.

[Leopolds Ghost]

129. So they just left critical patients alone, in the care of Sanjay Gupta? I'll believe Sanjay Gupta.

He was potential Surgeon General. I'll also listen to Honore.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

130. That's exactly what they did using security as the reason

The shocking part was they didn't evacuate the patients with them.

[Leopolds Ghost]

124. Why is this thread unreced? The situation in Haiti is not moving fast enough, period.

You don't motivate people by patting them on the back in an emergency, life or death situation.

[treestar]

136. It seems reasonable to anyone not there

Or anyone just watching it on TV, which is what the M$M knows most of its audience is doing.