So, really, what do we do if we are not happy with the democrats.

[Tim01]

I never expected Obama and his team to be the solution to all of the worlds problems. But I am awfully disappointed with this so-called health care reform.AND environmental issues,AND gay rights issues.
Granted I don't want the republicans to still be in power. But what we have now is not at all what I was hoping for.
I figured some of my more liberal issues would gain a lot of ground, not the case. Not at all.
But voting for republicans sure as hell is not the way to advance those causes.

So what the fuck is our choice? Is this one of those times when we just have to accept that life isn't fair and get over it? :shrug:
I don't like that answer.

[JI7]

1. convince the people of Nebraska, Arkansas , etc to vote for someone more liberal

for congress so they can pass more liberal bills which the President will sign.

[Sebastian Doyle]

10. Nebraska & Arkansas??

The DLC is about to take a seat in Massafuckingchusetts! And that's the "best" outcome. :eyes:

This goes far beyond "red" states. Even blue states have false "Democrats" now. Shit.... Diane Feinstein? Jane Harman??

How the Hell does that neocon warmongering trash get elected in California?

[LooseWilly]

18. We progressives have been "compromising" by voting for Feinstein.

You know... that magic thing that we're supposedly incapable of doing because we only know "purity"...

Well, I'm done with that in Feinstein's case, personally. I'd like to think I'm not alone... but I'd also like to think that Americans aren't stupid...

[newfie11]

20. Lots of luck

Most in my area of nebraska love nelson but they also vote repug.

[Ohio Joe]

2. Speak up

Tell everyone how you feel. Family, friends, co-workers, local reps, state reps, federal reps, people you meet everywhere. Tell them the facts, work to convince them. Don't. stop. ever.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Recruit a primary challenger for 2012. nt

[northzax]

4. So yes, it's not everything any of us hoped for

That's life. Are things better than a year ago? Yup. Are we moving, slowly, in the right direction? I think so. Am I impatient? Yup. Do I realize rationally that turning around a massive ship takes time and effort? Yessm. Am I willing to give them another year? Sure.

[omega minimo]

5. no you "just have to accept" that corporations run your country now.

:patriot:

[Juche]

6. I don't know

I've been worried about this.

Primaries from the left are supposed to be the answer. But we tried that with Obama. Obama was a primary from the left to Clinton (who was for all intents and purposes the incumbent). Many of us supported Obama because we felt he was more progressive and less of a triangulating corporatist. But Obama still went right after he got elected.

However the primary from the left against Lieberman almost worked. Had we had Lamont, we might have medicare buy in.

Also the primary from the left of Sestak against Specter is pushing Specter to the left.


So primaries from the left are important. But as they showed with Obama (since the Obama election was a primary from the left), it isn't perfect.

Organizing progressives to donate money, volunteer, write letters
Growing unions and their influence
Boycotts of right wing ad sponsors
Primaries from the left
Talking to friends and family


It should help. It seems many of our problems come from senators in small states. So you'd assume money and volunteer efforts will go further in a state of 1 million vs. a state of 20 million.

[LooseWilly]

19. Good point about Obama as a primary from the left... fail.

I can't help but feel like the party needs to feel some electoral pain... in the form of palpable disinterest from the left until the party shows some signs of "getting it".

Unfortunately, "getting it" is not a Democratic Party strong suit...

I guess everyone needs to ask themselves how much nerve they have for "electoral pain" in order to "Pavlovian train" the party about what happens when the left is betrayed so brazenly and completely... or even if they care, to be honest.

[Sebastian Doyle]

27. The primary against Lieberdouche DID work. Lamont won.

What failed was the fucked up laws of Connecticut. In most states, you don't get to create a fictional party to run in a general election after you lose a primary.

But the fact that so many DLC'ers - who like to insist that they are "Democrats" - supported Unholy Joe against the Democratic nominee should never be forgotten.

[struggle4progress]

7. Almost everybody in Washington is there because they want to do something. They don't want

to get slaughtered politically like some outnumbered hero at an old West gunfight. Going down in glorious flames is not generally better than an imperfect advance. If you want your side to win the way you think they ought to win, then provide some cavalry yourself: pick an issue, recruit some troops, and get to work harassing the troglodytes while encouraging your team to ride hell-for-leather in the proper direction

[Political Heretic]

12. Almost everyone in Washington is there because its the seat of money, power and influence.

$$$

[treestar]

29. Then just give up and enjoy the pic threads

I'm sorry but this type of thinking is just meant to wear everyone down and get them to give up.

If you went into politics, that would be the reason. You're in essence telling us that yourself, since you can't envision any other attitude.

If you're right you would just give up and enjoy the spectacle and gush on the First Lady threads. May as well get what enjoyment you can out of it.

[Political Heretic]

35. No, but it would be a good start to not be afraid of ugly realities.

I don't believe we can do something about the problems until we find the courage to see the scope and severity of the problems for what they really are.

Stage one of the coming to terms process might very well be the stage of saying " well if that's the way it is we should all just give up!"

But then you move on to stage 2...

[Tippy]

33. There are a lot of good people in Washington...

They are thre for the right reasons...But the bad apples will try over and over again to spoil the whole batch...We just have to fight harder...not easy, I know But it can be done..

[Political Heretic]

36. I believe the opposite is true. There are some good people in Washington

But they are the minority, not the majority.

The main reason this is the case is because so much money flows into washington politics.

It's not a few bad apples I'm afraid. There are a few good apples in a barrel of rotten ones.

[JDPriestly]

13. We did that on health care. But Obama and the Emmanuels

and Lieberman closed their ears to us. The polls showed that the American people supported health care reform as long as there was a public option or Medicare for All, but now that it is just a bail-out for the health insurance companies, not even we who fought hard to get support for it, can support it. Your riding hell-for-leather idea did not work.

[MarcoMcHairyPants]

8. ditto

Yeah, it's truly disgusting how healthcare reform went from helping citizens to bending over backwards to help the health insurance industry.

[backscatter712]

9. Primary them.

That's the correct answer.

[Political Heretic]

11. First, stop enabling your abusers....

Stop voting for the same people who are playing within an obviously broken system and unwilling to challenge the nature of that system itself.

Second, get ready for some dark days. Because the opponents of true change are right, if you stop supporting status quo democrats in the immediate vacuum, some republicans may defeat them. That may mean difficult days in the short run for ordinary people.

But the demand for something genuinely different than the conservative (both parties play along a spectrum of conservatism) politics is about a hopeful long run. It's about the reclamation of an honest to god left politic and the dismantling of a system of crony capitalism and corporate kickbacks that's failed.

Nothing can happen - nothing - other than to watch the system slowly deteriorate on its own towards its own internal implosion, unless people finally find the courage to stop propping up the same system that exploits them.

The problem right now with both parties is that neither one of them is willing to address the fundamental problems with the status quo political and economic system itself.

End corporate person-hood? Eliminate corporate money from federal politics and have publicly funded elections? Re-regulate journalistic media with principled requirements of accuracy and sourced references in reporting? Dismantle the MIC and rebuild a true and robust national defense? Have actual regulation and consumer protections of our economic system that demands for profit enterprise make its profit by following rules that business does not get to create with terms business does not get to dictate?

None of that, or even half of that, or something 2/3 weaker than that is going to happen while we continue to support politicians that have absolutely no interest in altering the basic structure of this system. As long as we keep supporting parties and politicians that look at the statements in the last paragraph and find them to be laughable then we are stuck within the same narrow confines of a system that's failed ordinary people.

Democrats today want to rearrange the furniture or put window dressings on a failed political and economic system. Admittedly their vision makes the failed system look fancier and a little more pleasing to the eye than the republican vision. But it remains just a dressed up failed system for the bottom 80% of Americans.

We either stop supporting politicians who laugh at calls for systematic reform - even if it means some difficult political days in the near-future - or we can sit back and be assured that democrats will continue to disappoint, republicans will continue to enrage, and all the while no one will talk about the fact that it is the system itself that's broken.

[Laelth]

30. Well said. The United States could use a liberal party.

And the Democratic Party is running out of time to prove that it can be a liberal party again.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Joe the Liberal]

14. I honestly have no idea.....

Voting for Democrats is a real catch 22, it seems like you're damned if you vote for them and damned if you don't. Vote them in and they still screw you but in much more gentle way compared to the republicans. Don't vote for them and that gives the republicans enough room to weasel their way into office and then they (republicans) screw you over full force. It's just two sides of the same coin and I don't see how it will ever change.

I guess some could just move to a better country, those who are able, but that doesn't solve anything except for the person who is moving.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. Would a Republican Administration and majority be better?

If you think so, then vote Republican.

But, if there is any issue that even these Democrats will be more in line with what you want, then you should consider keeping them in power.

[Political Heretic]

16. That doesn't work if you believe the system itself is broken...

...and neither political party is willing to challenge it, with Democrats only willing to make weak attempts to "spruce up" the accessories to a system that's failed.

If the by product of finding the courage to demand that our representatives address the failed system itself means that, in the short run, some corporate owned Democrats lose elections and some Republicans without the same interest in "accessorizing" take power - it ought to be a fight we are willing to have, for the same of any chance of a hopeful long run.

[Ozymanithrax]

17. We are a two party system in which either Republicans or Democrats will be in power...

Yes, the system is broken (particularly the Senate) but you still need to answer, is it better to have a party that will "spruce it up" or one that will go full monty fascist.

In our system, the only way to punish a party that does not do what we demand is to remove them from power. But you must be willing to accept whatever monster the other side puts in its place.

The U.S. government is not designed to make revolutionary changes. It works through small incremental changes that alter things slowly over time. Between the end of the nineteenth century and the end of the first decade of the twenty-first century, the U.S. has moved slowly in a progressive direction, with occasional steps back. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Civil Rights, Equal rights, gay rights have moved slowly into existence. In the 60's, people went to prison for having gay sex or marrying a person of another race. There were places where it was damn near impossible to get a divorce. We prayed and saluted the flag every morning in school. We have a long way to go in these issues, but over time, Democrats have spruced up the system to the point we are at now.

If you feel the system is broken, then you have no choice but to remove Democrats from power. There is no other way. Maybe the next time they get a chance to govern, they will move quicker. Go out, hold your nose, and vote Republican. But, write a letter and call your elected representatives that you are doing this to punish them. When Republicans come into power, tell every one, "Yes, I voted for the asshole Republicans so I could bitch slap Democrats for their epic fail. I hope they get the message so I do not have to do it again."

You have the power of your vote. Don't be afraid to use it, but always be willing to accept the consequences.

[Political Heretic]

22. I'll never advocate voting republican. And I don't accept your absolutes.

I am not advocating voting for a "third party" entrance into our status quo system as the solution. Nor do I believe we need to do something as morally contradictory as vote for reprehensible republicans just to make a point.

You are correct though - the system we have is one where either one of two parties will be in power and it is that system that's broken. The corporate buyout of government which began decades ago is complete. In all the ways I described previously, the leadership of neither party is unwilling to talk about the fundamental failure of the status quo politcal system, because it benefits them. They are instead willing to focus on their disagreements within the parameters of a failed system.

Just to give one example: Democrats are for kinder, gentler hegemony in foreign policy in which the use of a carrot to entice countries to do our economic bidding has as much place as the use of a stick. While Republicans are for a shoot first, ask questions later hegemony enforced by our might. No party is at all willing to discuss the end of American hegemony itself.

In every area you look you have Democrats being for one kind of policy that fails the American people while Republicans are for another kind of policy that fails more directly, with less nuance. Neither party is willing to address the failures directly, because neither party wants to. They benefit from this system and it serves their interests with power and privilege.

So yes the system is broken, and no I don't have to answer is it better to have one facet of the broken system in power over the other one, or rather I should say I have already answered. We need to do whatever it takes to demand that this failed system end. If that means allowing some corporate capitulating Democrats to lose with the side-consequence of a corporate capitulating republican winning in the short run, we should consider that part of the cost of the long term battle we are choosing to undertake to recreate a political system that is of the people by the people and for the people.

When people suggest that such change is "impossible" they stand on the wrong side of all of history. History shows us that governments fall. That's actually the norm, in the longer term view of things.

What I am talking about, by the way, is not some fantasy utopia. There are examples of nations with plenty of problems and even injustices that have their own need for continued improvement that are still leaps and bounds ahead of the United States in terms of maintaining a more responsible,equitable, peaceful government that better serves the majority of its populace.

They're not utopias, and the do reflect distinct and dramatic differences from the system of dominance and exploitation that the United States maintains. Democratic Socialist countries participates in the western global capitalist economy, for example, and so they are involved in the exploitation of poor countries and the violence of other rich countries which is a problem.

Sp, there's work to be done in those countries. And yet, they are leaps and bounds ahead of our failed system. Not just in morality and decency, but in actual critical indicators.

Take a look:

Most Americans are relatively worse off in many ways than people in 19 other industrialized powerhouse countries (Japan, Germany, United Kingdom, France, Italy, Canada, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Ireland, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland). These countries are the United States’ industrial peers, and part of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

Let’s take a look at the details:
Per Capita Income: U.S. Second
Income Inequality: U.S. First (meaning worst)
Overall Poverty Rate: U.S. Highest
Child Poverty Rate: U.S. Highest
Elderly Poverty Rate: U.S. Highest
Infant Mortality Rate: U.S. First (meaning worst)
Leisure Time: U.S. Last (meaning worst)
Maternity Leave: U.S. Last (meaning worst)

Try to let this information sink in if you can. The United States of America, supposedly a shining beacon and the envy of all the world, has the highest infant mortality rate of its 19 other peer industrialized nations. We have the highest poverty rates. We have the highest income inequality of anyone.

http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/03/we-are-losing-america-right-before-our.html

So I'm not talking utopia. I'm not advocating some system that's never existed in reality when I suggest that our system is failing and needs to be changed. Better systems do exist in an imperfect reality. They still have problems, but they are far better than our failed system that is racing toward the bottom in every critical category.

And for my marxist friends, neither am I suggesting that merely the political systems of these other countries is all we should ever try to achieve, and remain open to the possibility that and even better post-capitalist alternative be possible one day. All I'm doing here is simply pointing out that anyone out there attempting to claim that our system is simply the "best we can realistically hope for" is simply out of touch with modern reality and historical reality.

[Ozymanithrax]

37. I don't live in those countries, and I'm not intending to move..

Should I work in the system we have to elect more and better Democrats who will move the system slowly in a progressive direction? Certainly, that is my intention. But our system is what it is. When ever we go into the ballot box we face the same problem. Third parties are spoilers that become one of the two parties in very rare instances. We can use our vote to support the party that comes closest to our personal interests and what we see as the bests interests of the country, or vote to punish the party in power.

Many people at this site have already determined to sit out the election to punish Democrats. I consider voting a responsibility that can not be shirked as long as I remain able to vote, so I won't do that. Refusing to vote for anyone to me is the same as voting for those you want least to win. I will either vote to punish a candidate or vote to support a candidate. Would I vote for a Republican? No. But is is the most direct way to punish the party. I've already told the Democratic party I will not support with money, and told their people why.

[Political Heretic]

38. You don't have to.

They are proof enough that something different is possible here.

[Ozymanithrax]

39. I did not say it wasn't possible, only that in our system it takes time.

[Political Heretic]

40. Things take time, but not "in our system"

Our system is broken. What's needed is a new civil rights movement, this time for the economic justice Dr. King spoke so eloquently about shortly before being shot to death, and a movement for economic justice will require confronting the embedded injustices of our system head-on. The tired old D-R merry-go-round itself needs to be challenge, with Democrats forced to choose either a radical reformation of their party principles and ideals in service of a new system, or replacement with something new as part of a new system.

[NuttyFluffers]

21. love those who love you back. you better find somebody to love.

:headbang: :hi:

[branders seine]

23. vote for the best progressive candidate if one is available.

Stop the "lesser of evils" false choice. remember, both Coke and Pepsi will kill you.

If the fascists continue to ruin the country, it will eventually trigger the kind of revolution tha can really change things. Democrats are ruining it slightly more slowly than republicans, but both are ruining it.

Meanwhile, get active at a local level. Try to change what you don't like.

[Luciferous]

24. That's the problem though. In many instances there isn't a

"best progressive candidate"

[branders seine]

26. vote "none of the above"

write in someone

Let the oligarchy play its pretend voting game without your endorsement.

[anonymous171]

25. Don't stay home. Go to the polls and vote for who most accurately represents you

If no one are on the ballot, write one in.

[treestar]

28. Be patient

Anything worth getting takes a long fight. For instance, read the history of the civil rights act.

The things you are disappointed about are all long term fight. You can't just give up and abandon the party that is on, or even just toward, the right side of them this quickly.

I'm hoping you're really, really young.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. I vote for or against issues and principles. Not party or politicians.

Works for me.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

“Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only, no matter how big its membership may be is, no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently.“ - Rosa Luxemburg

[Kablooie]

32. Go out and form the Coffee Party.

[Festivito]

34. Hit the PRIMARIES in droves.

You WILL have to hold your nose, but, go there. Vote for the incumbent if you must, but go.

Otherwise, since we do not pay for our own elections, if we don't go, we'll not be heard AT ALL.

[yodoobo]

41. We ARE "the democrats"

Think about that for a few minutes.

[swilton]

42. You left out Foreign Policy as well

Didn't vote for Obama - but given the mandate, the Democrat control of both branches of the legislature, I expected more than this - after all the past 8 years were so awful, it would take very little to make some significant improvement.

I know a lot of you versed in American politics will say this isn't doable but I think the only answer is a third party. Given technological advances, it ought to be easier than in previous years. Whether or not everyone is on board for a third party, I don't intend to vote for a Democrat again.