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Writing About Politics Is Hard - Jane Hamsher/FDL

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 01:41 AM
Original message
Writing About Politics Is Hard - Jane Hamsher/FDL
Writing About Politics Is Hard
By: Jane Hamsher Friday January 15, 2010 4:45 pm

<snip>

Dave Weigel writes:

Rep. Vic Snyder (D-Ark.) announced his retirement today, mixed–but mostly dire–news for Democrats, who were hopeful that he could hold on and defeat his likely, scandal-tainted GOP opponent Tim Griffin. One of the possible reasons for the retirement? A poll conducted by SurveyUSA, paid for by the progressive blog Firedoglake, which tested negative messages about the health care reform bill and whether it made voters sour on Snyder.


I’m sure that makes sense to someone, but not anybody who’s ever read a poll. The baseline question at the top of the poll asked about Obama’s approval ratings in the district, and then tested Snyder against Griffin. Nobody has challenged the accuracy of those numbers, taken before any other questions were asked. If Snyder felt it was time to retire based on that poll, it was because it showed he was running 17 points behind his opponent, and not because we asked a question of 600 people in the district. And if the poll was truly inaccurate, I’m sure the DCCC could spring for the cash to run another one to disprove it.

Seven term congressmen know how to ask for that kind of thing. They don’t retire over polls they know to be invalid.

Far more likely is that the poll confirmed what Snyder already knew. When Parker Griffin switched parties, his staff downloaded all of the DCCC’s polling first. Everyone on the Hill was wigging out about it. All the talk about the “inevitability” of the health care bill passing was, we assumed, a desperate bid to jam it through before anyone found out how badly this insurance industry/PhRMA bailout was hurting the Democrats.

The White House has been assuring everybody that once the bill was passed, they’d do a massive “sell job” on the health care bill that would turn everything around. But if they had the power to do it, one wonders why they weren’t doing so already. Clearly Snyder didn’t think that was going to happen, or he would’ve stuck around.


Weigel continues:

The question, raised by Nate Silver and others: Is Firedoglake trying to scare vulnerable Democrats into retirement in order to kill health care reform? All indications point to “yes.”


If Nate Silver suggests that anyone is trying to “scare vulnerable Democrats into retirement,” Weigel should link to that article, because in the one he references, Nate doesn’t say that. He says “perhaps it will impress Snyder into not voting for a health care bill at all.”

Perhaps Weigel has missed it, but we have been pushing to block the passage of the Senate bill for quite some time, and what he refers to as “push polling” is actually the reality of the bill. SurveyUSA is a wholly reputable polling firm (per the self-same Nate Silver, one of the reasons we chose them). They wrote the questions to try and fairly ascertain what we wanted to know: would voting for the mandate hurt Democrats in 2010? Which, by the way, is not something we would like to see happen. And one only has to look at Mike Stark’s interview with John Shadegg to get a preview of coming attractions:

SHADDEG: Well, you could better defend a public option than you could defend compelling me to buy a product from the people that have created the problem. America’s health insurance industry has wanted this bill and the individual mandate from the get go. That’s their idea. Their idea is “look, our product is so lousy, that lots of people don’t buy it. So we need the government to force people to buy our product. And stunningly, that’s what the Congress appears to be going along with. Why would they do that?


Here’s what Glenn Smith wrote about the mandate this morning:

I’m still waiting on the D.C. insider to tell me why a government mandate that all Americans buy health insurance from for-profit companies is not a silver bullet that will kill even nine-live Democrats.


We hoped Snyder would decide that he should insist on pulling the mandate out of this bill in exchange for his vote. Now that he’s leaving the seat, he’ll most certainly be a “yes” vote, so that actually does nothing to “kill the bill” for those paying close attention.

If Vic Snyder is getting hammered, it isn’t because of a poll. The fault lies much deeper than that. The corrupt PhRMA deal, the insurance company giveaways, their exemption from anti-trust laws — people understand what’s going on, and Democrats across the country are paying a price for it. You’d have to be in serious denial to pretend anything else.

<snip>

Link: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/15/writing-about-politics-is-hard/

:kick:

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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. trying to rec this but it's not letting me.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh I'm Sure It Registered...
It's just still in negative territory.

It's a relatively new feature... sort of "Gladiator DU".

The folks in the cheap seats get to give the thumbs down without actually having to get in the ring themselves.

:shrug:

Ah well... Thanks for the rec just the same.

:hi:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Rec from me also ~
A lot of people in denial. But won't change the reality that the American people who are NOT on blogs are beginning to register their disappointment in Democrats.

It would be far better to acknowledge it than to deny it, close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and keep doing what the people are trying to tell you to stop doing.

If Dems lose the majority in the Fall, I will all those who blindly supported policies that the American people do not want. They enabled Congress to ignore those who elected them and will be responsible for any losses that result from that.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Ok, I just got tired enough of the Unrec Function to take it to the next level:
Edited on Sat Jan-16-10 12:24 PM by snot
I created an "Unrec the Unrec Function" image and added it to my signature.

If you'd like to do the same, insert this code into your signature (substituting the appropriate punctuation where indicated): http: forward slash forward slash www dot snotenterprises.com/UnrecTheUnrecs.gif :



You can also find a larger jpg of the same image at http: forward slash forward slash www dot snotenterprises.com/UnrecTheUnrecs.jpg :





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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Cool... And Thanks !!!
:hi:
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wow I tried to rec
this too and it is still in negs I guess. This is a big fear I have. I hate this mandate and this bill. They can't "sell" it to me and I WANT to like the bill even just a little bit. I am afraid Dems will lose big with this.
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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. Rec here too.
Thanks for posting :hi:
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. Rec but still no go
Probably the name in the title.
Isn't she still under the bus?
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R.
It's still in the negative. Fuck the left-wing authoritarians. They're just as bad as the bushies.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Back up to 0 recs... and scaring Dem Reps into retirement to kill the bill? Are they voting in 2011?
This definitely sounds more like a case of Dems, especially in Arkansas where FireDogLake has been running some ads, realizing that voting for this HCR bill is career suicide... I'm guessing he's got a lobbying gig in the works.

The endless tide of corporate drones rolls on. Like Wall St. drones... overpaid because the system can't do without them... until they leave and are replaced in a hot second by the next guy/gal...
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
Thanks for this.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
10. Morning Kick !!!
:kick:
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CANDO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. I know this is trivial...
but I've been wondering for some time now what the hell FDL is. Now I got it! Firedoglake. Damn I'm dumb.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. K&R. But someone unrecced it the same time I recced it.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Re Nate Silver's objections to that poll:
He seemed to be trying to argue that if ONLY the survey had put the individual mandate "in context" and showed people being polled it was necessary, then they wouldn't have disliked it so much.

Of course, that assumes none of the people against the mandate knew anything about it, and that they'd have agreed with him if they did.

It would also have made for a VERY slanted poll question.

The individual mandate simply isn't popular. It's overwhelmingly unpopular with voters. So are other major aspects of this bill.

As Jon Walker pointed out yesterday (I posted about it here, and so did someone else), the Republicans don't have to run against the entire bill and say they'll repeal it. All they have to do is run against the worst parts of the bill.

And it does not take a poll FDL wanted done to show them what people dislike about the HCR bill. The major polls we've seen recently are pretty much in agreement about that.

This bill is going to hurt Dems badly this year, and the White House saying a PR campaign will make voters like it is a bad joke, on our party.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. It is unpopular. It's because it's just wrong to force people
to buy a product from your buddies who are getting paid to force you to do so. Why on earth would anyone think that is a good idea?

It's also unconstitutional and people's instincts tell them when they are being scammed.

I think the biggest clue of how bad this bill is, you never see Dems out selling it. They KNOW it's bad and very hard to sell but it's what their bosses told them to do.

Nate Silver is just ignorant if that's what he thinks. Not everyone puts Party before Country and that's what you have to do to support this bill.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. exactly right.
we didn't elect a dem majority to mindfuck us -- just shove this awful bill through and deal with 'perceptions' later. it's not about perception. it's about reality -- the reality of forcing people to buy something they hate -- with no cost control -- while taxing the decent healthcare benefits of people who have sacrificed for decades to get it.

what the hell is our party thinking? this is John McCain's healthcare plan.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. rec #9 n/t
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. Thank you for this post. I'm very glad to hear Hamsher's side of the story. (rec #13) nt
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-16-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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