CNN International is reporting NO sign of the 82nd Airborne

[lebkuchen]

or any other US military except that seen off shore.

Sec. State Clinton is supposed to arrive to Port au Prince on Saturday. What is she going to do? Lead the Airborne into Port au Prince? Imagine how much "safer" the Haitians will feel to see her there. If she pulls this stunt, it will top "Mission Accomplished."

She is not physically needed. The Airborne and beyond is.

Where are they??? I hope what I just heard on Maddow isn't correct: that the powers that be are waiting for violence to erupt rather than going in to prevent it from taking place to begin with. I wouldn't have thought violence was to anyone's benefit in this situation. Maybe the Obama administration is waiting for Blackwater to submit its $1 billion bid to go in and shoot at anything that moves.

((If we're going to send diplomats, send W, and keep him there, with a tool kit welded to his torso, so he can get of sense of his own humanitarian ineptitude when he most had the opportunity to make a difference.))

CNNI is reporting that the UN has left Sanja Gupta to deal with a hospital tent full of injured, alone! They abandoned the scene! What the HELL??

Where is the military?!

This emergency aid "rescue" has yet to get started. And here Gupta thought he's be there to report, not be a one-doctor rescue "operation."

Where are the choppers making drops to the one functioning hospital in the country?!

Someone is being much much too cautious; this scene calls for someone to kick ass and start directing traffic. Worry about criticism later.

[librarycard]

1. The 82nd Airborne represents about 220 military members

There's your problem right there.

This delay is not only extremely aggravating to TV viewers, it's etched on the faces of the US reporters who have ended up being America's first responders, literally, for the last five days plus. As one reporter just said, "I know I keep saying this, but I have to believe that help will arrive tomorrow."

The belated assistance could have a negative impact on future donations, as contributors who had wanted to see even an iota of relief, not worsened suffering, decide they and their money are powerless to affect change.

[Leopolds Ghost]

3. Why is there an army of journalists, and Bolivians, and...other stuff "can't quite get in yet?"

[malaise]

5. Bolivians, Peruvians

Europeans, Jamaicans, CARICOM peeps and Americans - apparently the groups the media choose to follow are the only ones not delivering. Maybe the media are blocking their work.

[EFerrari]

28. Norwegians were there early, too, with machines to move big things.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. Are you saying that only 220 members of the 82nd are going to Haiti?

[malaise]

2. There are laws in countries

Haiti is not a US colony and there are rules about who can impose security - the government of Haiti, the United Nations and CARICOM are the only authorized security bodies. Unless you want a bloody mess for Obama et al, keep the US army out of all security in this situation.

The UN is in command.

Calm down - help is reaching people - sadly the US media is focusing too much on the US based help. Lots of other countries are there and getting on with serving the Haitian people.

[Leopolds Ghost]

4. Army shouldn't be there to provide security, they should provide bodies to do rescue and morgue.

[lebkuchen]

6. Lt Gen Honore just said on CNNI that the redtape needs to be cut

Soldiers want to go in, we need to take some risks and send them in, and, in short, cut the diplomacy crap and start moving to save lives.

Your comments?

[malaise]

9. Haiti is not a US colony

That's my only comment - you cannot walk in and take over.
This is not diplomacy - it's international law. Note there are two Memoranda of understanding already signed - the US can run the airport and American doctors can practice without authorization. The United Nations is in charge of Security.

No sane country would sign over its security to the US Army.

[lebkuchen]

10. You and Lt. Gen. Honore respectfully disagree with each other

He was heavily involved with Katrina efforts, so I think his opinion holds some weight.

"Calm down help is on the way" is probably empty rhetoric to Haitians right now, don't you think?

But thanks. You made me feel a whole lot better.

[malaise]

12. Of course - he is US army

I can't help him. If Yellow Stone erupted and the entire US was destroyed, would the US cede security to a foreign power?

[lebkuchen]

13. Honore probably feels that since the Haitian govt. is buried under rubble

perhaps if we got some equipment in to dig them out, assuming any diplomat is still alive, we might get their sense of the situation and procede from there.

We might also be really democratic about it and have a quick Haitian election on the subject?

[malaise]

15. What part of the United Nations is in charge of security do

you and Honore not get? Katrina was in the United States. You do not own the world. You cannot shove your way around no matter what the circumstances.

[lebkuchen]

20. 72 hours later, it would appear that the UN is too timorous in its decision making

especially after leaving a hospital tent in the middle of the night only to have a CNNI reporter/doctor to take care of the injured. That decision will not inspire a lot of future confidence in the UN, though as a US citizen from the city where the charter was signed, I would wish it otherwise.

There comes a point, especially when a country's infrastructure is completely devastated after what has already been called the top ten earthquake disaster in recorded history, and when a country's ambassador says he's been unable to make any contact whatsoever with any effected government figure because they're either dead or dying, that, as a planet, we stand less on decorum and use a bit more "thinking out of the box" to expedite what is clearly needed. Calling any attempt to do so as an exercise in "ruling the world" and bullying, is, imo, a stretch. Recall that the UN was begging the US to show any kind of leadership at all during the tsunami. Bush dithered. Maybe he had good reasons.

The UN has returned to the tent. What a relief. Maybe Gupta will stop shoving his way into what is clearly not his responsibility no matter what the circumstances, and get some sleep.

[malaise]

26. Looks like Honore isn't even aware that medical protocols have been signed

Ah well.
We know better than setting precedents with imperialists - we learned from history. Your 'outside the box' means we're inside - in coffins.

add

[Paladin]

36. Get A Fucking Clue, Why Don't You?

Millions of people are suffering and dying in Haiti, and you're reducing it all to some sort of colonialist shell game? Give it a rest......

[redwitch]

24. He inspired much confidence after Katrina.

I still think of his "don't get stuck on stupid" comment. He also, I believe, helped with companion animals. Good man. I just wish he had superpowers and was put in charge. The situation is horrific, I think the destroyed infrastructure has made coordination of efforts nearly impossible. The dead Haitian authorities, the dead UN people, that doesn't help either.
People are doing the best that they can, it's just too massive. More people are going to die, so heartbreaking. They came through the quake but disease, violence, dehydration may take their lives anyway. And all we can do is send money, watch the news coverage as it unfolds and pray. I'm beginning to feel like I have PTSD, what must it be like to be there? Blessings on all the soldiers and sailors and rescue teams who dropped everything to get there and do what they could. Truly the stuff of nightmares.

[lebkuchen]

25. It is nightmarish, as you say

just watching from the sofa. It takes a special personality, and an iron stomach, to volunteer for something like this.

That said, so many have volunteered, and so many have contributed. If Honore, in his humble experience, feels the current situation is being handled ineffectively and has offered his expertise, if only to question why a, b, and c events haven't been accomplished, and when our reporters ask the same "begging to be asked" questions as they struggle to report without uncontrollably sobbing, then I can't help but question the effectiveness of the relief effort myself, not to mention, I have a strong repulsion to human suffering.

[lebkuchen]

11. You and Lt. Gen. Honore respectfully disagree with each other

He was heavily involved with Katrina efforts, so I think his opinion holds some weight.

"Calm down help is on the way" is probably empty rhetoric to Haitians right now, don't you think?

But thanks. You made me feel a whole lot better.

[elehhhhna]

31. UN ran security in Rwanda. We all know how that turned out.

sorry to be debbie downer but how much faith in the UN security forces can we have?

[Hannah Bell]

7. it's there. as of friday.

Delayed for hours along with other flights circling over the severely congested Port au Prince airport, a second plane carrying soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division finally landed at the airport in the middle of the night — bringing the infantry unit’s total there to 155, Maj. Kristian Sorensen, a spokesman at Fort Bragg, said Friday.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/01/ap_military_haiti_011510/

[lebkuchen]

8. They haven't left the airport yet, from what CNNI says

They're waiting for an order, perhaps for H. Clinton to play Joan of Arc?

[ice window]

14. Why is it always our troops that have to do the security? Where are the "blue helmets"?

We spend billions every year on the UN and nothing becomes of it.

Why is it always our troops that have to go into situations they have not been trained for in these humanitarian jestures? I fear that some Marines are going to be put into a situation where they have to use their firearms and then some will demand hearings and trials after America put them into a situation they have never been trained for. It is unfair to our service members.

[malaise]

16. Huh?

We agree on one thing - the US army must not be put in a position where they fire one shot.

For the record, when last has the US paid its UN bill?

[ice window]

17. We already fund 22% of the UN; how much is too much?

Just how much of the UN should America fund? Maybe you need to review legislation that our VP Joe Biden worked on in 1999 to reduce our contribution from 25% to 22% that was meant to end the stalemate over our dues.

Besides something like 28% of every dollar that goes into the UN ends up disappearing in the mass of black holes the UN has. Remember; NOBODY is elected to the UN from countries. The "reps" sent there are usually insiders, relatives, and thugs out to bring home the bacon for them personally and their countries.

[malaise]

18. Answer my question

When last have you paid your UN contribution?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stray cat]

21. What happens when the US occupies the country and has to shoot people to maintain order - o

We have been given permission to set up aircraft control - not to police the country - you can't occupy only the countries you choose even if it is to save lives

[lebkuchen]

22. Who is supposed to give the permission to set up control?

According to Ambassador Joseph, the Haitian govt. officials are dead, or dying.

Now what? Wait for roving bands of machete weilding Haitian youths to dig them out?

[maddezmom]

23. here is a link with some updated info and time tables

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=57566

[lebkuchen]

27. We will eventually be "augmenting" UN security sometime after the 18th

or what little UN security there is. Judging from the medical tent debacle last night, there isn't a lot to augment.

Thanks for the game plan.

[MadBadger]

38. They have a President.

[southernyankeebelle]

29. I saw a clip where ther was a soldier there with the 82d Abn patch on his sleeve of his

BDU. They have to be secure. You just can't go out and start delivery of water and food without people rushing to the trucks. They could be overrunned.

[madrchsod]

30. there is no gasoline , diesel fuel and electricity

the roads are impassable.

there is no practical way to off shore anything until the port can be cleared. dropping anything into an unsecured area leads to trouble.

[Pavulon]

32. Guys, you cant put troops in to "secure" stuff without the logistics

to bring in material first. Resources in these operations are pooled and managed to accomplish goals set by those in charge. People are going to die. the goal now it to reduce that number by as much as possible and not create instability by dropping random shit all over.

I do not want to se us troops put in a position to "secure" a position and end up in a confrontation with desperate people. That helps no one.

[lebkuchen]

42. Well, Lt. Gen. Honore just recommended dropping shit all over

And since our troops are knee-deep in desperate people in Iraq and Afghanistan, I hardly see how Haiti makes much difference. Our troops are veterans of this sort of thing, after all.

[Spazito]

34. CNN gets it WRONG again...

The UN did NOT order the doctors out:

From CNN itself:

"U.N. spokesman Martin Nesirky said Saturday that the world body's mission in Haiti did not order any medical team to leave the Port-au-Prince field hospital. If the team left, it was at the request of their own organizations, he told CNN."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/16/haiti.abandoned.patients/index.html?hpt=T2

[lebkuchen]

40. Gupta was on the scene at the time it was happening

He asked, and the answers he got was that they were ordered to leave. He had hoped it wasn't happening, but it did, and he was left holding the bag of syringes.

I don't see how this equates to CNN lying.

There will be an investigation.

The only reason the doctors returned was to undo the media mess their evac had created.

[Spazito]

43. Why did CNN report the UN ordered them out when that was NOT the case...

Did CNN's Gupta make that spurious assumption or did CNN talking heads do it? It was the organization to which the Dr's belonged that "requested they leave" yet CNN did not wait to find out the facts they lied instead.

[lonestarnot]

35. What is the holdup on clearing some property for chopper distribution. Tired, starving, wounded

Haitans can't be too much of a match for incoming armed marines. Clearing of areas with CBee equipment construct the towers in 1 day, fence off guarded towers and form distribution centers around the perimeters which extend 1/4 mile from central zones of docking equipment and supplies. Who is holding this up?

[lebkuchen]

41. Virtually nobody that the media has questioned can answer your question

though it is a good one.

[SidDithers]

37. Actual facts, not media speculation...

Southcom Officials Provide Haiti Update
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Jan. 16, 2010 – Officials at U.S. Southern Command headquarters here provided a recap last night of the previous 48 hours of developments in the Haiti relief effort.

Southcom is managing the U.S. military aspects of the earthquake-relief mission.

Officials noted that Joint Task Force Haiti had been established to oversee U.S. military relief efforts in Haiti, with Army Lt. Gen. P.K. “Ken” Keen in command.

As of last night, 4,200 U.S. military personnel were currently supporting task force operations, within Haiti and from Navy and Coast Guard vessels offshore. An additional 6,300 military personnel are scheduled to arrive through the weekend.

Current U.S. military efforts are focused on working with the United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti, international relief organizations and local responders to provide search and rescue, distribute aid and assess damage to key infrastructure, officials said.

With approval from the Haitian government, U.S. Air Force air traffic control and airfield management personnel are managing air operations into the international airport at the national capital of Port-au-Prince. The airfield is open for 24-hour operations and has a 90-aircraft-per-day capability.

The aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson and the U.S. Navy destroyer USS Higgins are operating off the Haitian coast in support of the task force. USS Carl Vinson has 19 embarked helicopters flying airlift missions in support of relief efforts. The carrier also is delivering more than 30 pallets of relief supplies for distribution to affected areas.

Overall, 24 helicopters were providing relief to the people of Haiti as of last night, officials said.

The 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, embarked aboard the amphibious ship USS Bataan and composed of more than 2,200 Marines is scheduled to arrive in Haiti on Jan. 18 with heavy-lift and earth-moving equipment and additional medical-support capabilities. The amphibious ships USS Carter Hall, USS Fort McHenry, USS Underwood and USS Normandy also are en route to Haiti.

The hospital ship USNS Comfort left Baltimore this morning en route to Haiti, with about 600 medical personnel. It’s projected to arrive in Haitian waters on Jan. 21. Comfort's capabilities include fully equipped operating rooms, a 500-bed hospital facility, digital radiological services, a medical laboratory, a pharmacy, an optometry lab, a CT-scan capability and two oxygen-producing plants. Each ship is equipped with a helicopter deck capable of landing large military helicopters.

An initial company of more than 100 paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne Division arrived in Haiti on Jan. 14, and 600 additional paratroopers are scheduled to arrive over the next few days to augment U.N. security and assist with search-and-rescue missions.

Since 2005, U.S. Southern Command has led U.S. military support to 14 major relief missions, including assistance to Haiti in September 2008. During that mission, U.S. military forces from USS Kearsarge and other units airlifted 3.3 million pounds of aid to communities that were devastated by a succession of major storms.

All military efforts are in support of the U.S. Agency for International Development, which is orchestrating U.S. government contributions to the relief mission.

(From a U.S. Southern Command news release.)


Related Sites:
U.S. Southern Command
Special Report: Haiti Earthquake Relief

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7477356&mesg_id=7479266

http://www.southcom.mil/appssc/news.php?storyId=2040

Sid

[lebkuchen]

39. Hillary's on the ground. Tme to breath a collective sigh of relief!

Here comes America to the rescue, with Hillary leading the band, finally.

Let the bottleneck be cleared, under orders of the Sec. of State!